Nolrai
weak to fangs
- Location
- Porltand
That's because something very much is.
Intercessor (AKA Kemonomimi Yuri Space Fantasy)
- Thread starter Kei
- Start date
- Original Sci-Fi Fantasy
Starman4308
(Unverified Human Being)
- Pronouns
- He/Him/His
What this suggests to me is a Battletech-esque industrial base complete with Lostech, uneven industrialization, FASAnomics and an unhealthy focus on military production. For those unaware, BT used to have a good industrial base, but the fall of the Star League and First Sucession War resulted in massive loss of knowledge and infrastructure. They probably could have recovered much sooner, save for Comstar assassinating scientists, the Second Succession War, the Third Sucession War, the Fourth... you get the point. No real opportunity to build consumer goods and machine tools if you need another 'Mech on the front lines now... and looting Star League ruins kept up a trickle of Lostech for the wealthiest.
The presence of Arkologies to loot probably helps perpetuate a state of affairs where there are small quantities of very high tech items (starships) but still has washerwomen going door to door to wash clothes by hand. Seriously, this is nuts, and indicative of serious imbalances in industry and technology.
The presence of Arkologies to loot probably helps perpetuate a state of affairs where there are small quantities of very high tech items (starships) but still has washerwomen going door to door to wash clothes by hand. Seriously, this is nuts, and indicative of serious imbalances in industry and technology.
UrsaTempest
Don't Panic!
The collar is nice touch though!
- Location
- a Far and Sunless Land
- Pronouns
- She/Her/Complicated
So I had been thinking, between everyone we'd seen with a similar rank having the same first letter of their name and Scarlet's surprise at learning Artemis's name, that there was maybe some sort of caste system going on here? But Carol's name indicates that that's not the case, or that if it is it's more complicated than I was imagining...
I was probably reaching quite a lot with the name thing, anyway.
Those collars are still very worrying, though...
I was probably reaching quite a lot with the name thing, anyway.
Those collars are still very worrying, though...
One thing though: It seems that that capacity to operate roomba's and yachts found in arkologies seems to be close to unprecedented. I would assume that this applies to most other completed products too. It may well be that most white-goods work just fine, or it could be that they harvest super-tech equivalents of circuit boards and end up building their washing-machines out of jet-fighters and their jet-fighters out of garbage-trucks...
UrsaTempest
Don't Panic!
Yeah, lack of meat or eggs or dairy is the biggest indication it's fairly cheap meal... unless it's later revealed the society is vegan or something, I guess.
Chloe Sullivan
Subdefective
- Location
- 1630 Revello Drive, Sunnydale CA
I mean lack of faunal life around would help explain the complete lack of comprehension of what "men" are…
UrsaTempest
Don't Panic!
I can't say it's implausible, dangit.
Unless the fauna are all mostly human. Which would also, one desperately hopes, explain the lack of animal products.
Or, well, if the kemonomimi have managed single-gender sexual reproduction, then other species could presumably achieve the same. One does somewhat wonder what agriculture looks like in general, given the lack of conventional arable lands.
thanks for the catch x_x
Honestly, basically what @Nyx -Nyx-Nyx is saying here. I don't want to say that I'm being "lazy" at worldbuilding for Intercessor here, but Intercessor is definitely something I'm trying to approach in terms of themes and aesthetics rather than...I mean, look, this is very soft space fantasy and not hard sci-fi. I'm trying to make sure the setting remains internally consistent, but a lot of what I'm writing for this story is trying to communicate impressions more than it is trying to delve into srsface economics and technology.
I'm going to be one hundred percent honest: I'm mostly just toying around with a reasonably common trope in isekai where the protagonist understands what people are saying, but does not necessarily recognize the writing system. It doesn't need to be more complicated than that. Of the major isekai works to come out recently that uses this trope, Re:Zero is probably a decent example.
Good catch~
- Location
- Chicago
- Pronouns
- She/They
I think the thing that giving impressions and aesthetics without fully world building does is that it invites others to- to try and put together why and how such a cool thing could have come together. I personally don't need an answer at all, it's just a way for me to express interest and involvement. And wonder.
@Kei, you are very good at this.
@Kei, you are very good at this.
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- Location
- Oregon, USA
I mean, Re:Zero isn't a great example, given that they specifically use that as a plot point several times, creating important moments of exposition when the MC practices reading with fairy tales, providing excuses for certain scenes, and also setting up later plots via the presence of Japanese writing in world (which the MC overlooks because he's not perceptive)
My impression reading it was that, irrespective of whether she could afford to own a washing machine in her apartment, Scarlet might well be able to find a laundromat or something at a comparable or cheaper cost to what she was paying Carol – but she's using Carol's services anyway as Not-Charity, and was embarrassed at being accidentally semi-called-out on that fact by Artemis.
(I.e. that it's basically Tsundere Charity. "I-it's not like I'm paying her to do my laundry because she clearly needs the money and I feel sorry for her, baka! I'm a hardened mercenary, I just n-need my clothes washed! It's a necessary service! Don't make this weird!" *Blushes furiously*)
Carol needing it is supported by her clear poverty, and by how quickly she showed up after Scarlet and Artemis arrived, despite Scarlet having a job that takes her away for long and irregular periods. (I'm not sure how or if slaves keep their income, but either way she Needs The Work.) The local community quickly tipping Carol off about Scarlet's return suggests that they're helping out in what small ways they can, even though the community itself is poor. Scarlet paying for the service even if it's not actually the most economical option would be of a piece with that – and that idea is further supported by Scarlet suddenly deciding they should change clothes they'd otherwise have kept wearing, just to give Carol something to wash and get paid for.
Scarlet using a laundromat might well be cheaper day-to-day, or at least not require air-drying her clothes. Owning a washing machine might be cheaper in the long run. But then Scarlet wouldn't be paying Carol, who needs it. Instead Scarlet gets her clothes washed, Carol does honest work for honest pay, and it's nice and tidy and implicit and everyone keeps their dignity intact.
It's just awkward, when the alien girl observing this transaction tries to make entirely sensible extrapolations from it and they're not exactly right but only because she's missing social context which you'd prefer not to acknowledge exists thankyouverymuch.
(Or maybe the extrapolations are right and washing machines are an elegant cleaning technology from a more civilized age, but the aforementioned dynamic still exists anyway.)
...Anyway, it's especially awkward because Artemis's relationship with Scarlet is also sitting squarely in the intersection of Charity Case and Valuable Service Provider. Except Artemis has epic levels in both of those traits. So if Scarlet doesn't want to openly acknowledge the possibility at all that Squishy Sentimental Feelings might factor into her business relationship with Carol, then Scarlet probably 1000x would like to not have that discussion with Artemis.
I'd guess Scarlet's initial emotional response packs in a lot of the above, more or less in order, and possibly not all recognized by Scarlet herself. Initially a little embarrassed both on her own behalf and on Carol's behalf at this relationship accidentally called out by Artemis, and then has Complicated-And-Not-Positive-Feelings about Artemis implicitly questioning Carol benefiting from that relationship when hey Artemis is benefiting from a somewhat similar relationship, and then realizes that Artemis actually isn't being critical at all and is genuinely trying to figure out what this implies about laundry technology and doesn't necessarily have the context to know there even is an awkward sore point here and Scarlet doesn't want to give her the context and aargh.
(Which may actually be underestimating Artemis a bit, since Artemis' own narration alludes to some of these things and she's tactful enough to ask her question in a quiet aside - but Scarlet clearly recognizes she's having a very hard time grasping even the basic structure of what Artemis does and doesn't know.)
[Welp that post ended up getting longer than planned.]
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Chloe Sullivan
Subdefective
- Location
- 1630 Revello Drive, Sunnydale CA
People posting 3 page essays on washing machines and the obligation economy is a good sign. It means they are invested in your world and you have done a good job making it interesting. Take it as a compliment.
UrsaTempest
Don't Panic!
I mean, even if she can afford washing machine, I wouldn't blame her for not having one. They're total PITA. Does she even have the power and water to run it?
Bah, friendly neighborhood washer girl is better, I say.
Bah, friendly neighborhood washer girl is better, I say.
Starman4308
(Unverified Human Being)
- Pronouns
- He/Him/His
Another possibility is that living space is expensive, and washing machines take up precious square footage. Though, that loops back to "surely there's a laundromat". I'm operating on "if the tech is economical and the service indistinguishable, the automated option should swiftly drive manual labor out of business and who would want to be a professional manual washerwoman anyways?"
Where there is artistry, it's a different story, but intentionally keeping people at inefficient manual labor doesn't seem right. Eventually, the economy will adjust to any lost jobs, and in the short run, good governments will work to mitigate job loss problems by programs like unemployment insurance. With that, I'd assume the door to door washerwomen shtick is because laundry machines are, in fact, expensive.
In a setting with interstellar starships. Somehow.
Where there is artistry, it's a different story, but intentionally keeping people at inefficient manual labor doesn't seem right. Eventually, the economy will adjust to any lost jobs, and in the short run, good governments will work to mitigate job loss problems by programs like unemployment insurance. With that, I'd assume the door to door washerwomen shtick is because laundry machines are, in fact, expensive.
In a setting with interstellar starships. Somehow.
- Location
- United States of America
Spaceships don't eliminate inequality/poverty. I live in the most advanced and wealthy country on planet Earth and still had to hang clothes out to dry. Also, I mentioned earlier but if the words Artemis is using to describe were Scarlett's home is located as "Kowloon Walled City." you have a shitload of very very poor people crammed into a highly dense area. An excess of labor is guaranteed.
The big difference is that Kowloon Walled City had free, zero-maintenance air processing thanks to existing in a planetary biosphere, could draw water from Hong Kong's municipal supplies, etc. A spaceship or space station unable to supply or maintain something as simple as washing machines would be completely unable to supply or maintain the far-more-complex life support systems, and so would have a shitload of asphyxiated corpses crammed into a highly dense area. (EDIT: So in that sense, spaceships do eliminate sufficiently severe poverty - fatally.)
But people here have been coming up with potential explanations - maybe the life support is Antecessor tech that never breaks down or needs maintenance. Maybe it's centralized enough that the rich districts are effectively subsidizing the poor districts (Oxygen and CO2 aside, air-drying on a space station is not free - if you're putting that moisture into the air, some system somewhere else has to take it out!)
Or maybe we just haven't yet seen the part where hundreds of people a month die in oxygen outages.
EDIT2: What's with the funny ratings? I was trying to be serious - in space, lack of access to technology will kill you.
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Axslashel
I am a pessimist not a realist.
- Location
- Land of the Midnight Sun
It is a closed system. The water used to clean them comes from somewhere on the space station to begin with. Especially when they are cleaned with water carried in a barrel.
Yes, and for that closed system to work, something has to be taking water out of the air and putting it into barrels. That something will require maintenance and likely power and spare parts, and so will whatever systems are maintaining the air flow. Air drying is not free specifically because it is a closed system.
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cB557
voOOP
I don't think you actually need losTech to explain the washing machine thing. Off the top of my head, even if you do have the tech to manufacture washing machines cheaply in large quantities, if the owners of those factories feel like they could make a better profit using those factories to make other things, then you get washing machines as a rare luxury product.
Like yeah in a vacuum I'd expect that they'd be so dirt cheap to make that laundromats would be a thing, but none of us know what the market as a whole actually looks like, and no living human can tell you what super spacefuture manufacturing tech will actually look like, so it's not something we can just say should be a given.
Like yeah in a vacuum I'd expect that they'd be so dirt cheap to make that laundromats would be a thing, but none of us know what the market as a whole actually looks like, and no living human can tell you what super spacefuture manufacturing tech will actually look like, so it's not something we can just say should be a given.
The question then becomes "why have none of them seen the opportunity to corner the market on washing machines/why do none of them even have that opportunity", but yeah, could be. Ideology/politics, or maybe manufacturing capacity being limited somehow so that only so many machines can be produced, or maybe something else.
One idea I just had: some kind of replicator/matter-assembler-like system, where the complexity of a product isn't a significant cost but the size is, so a washing machine isn't as worthwhile to produce as more sophisticated things of the same bulk or things that do stuff kemonomimi can't.
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I mean, the washing machine was patented in 1797, so they certainly should be able to make them, but I don't think it's all that unusual for someone who lives in an apartment to not have one. Plenty of places don't have them.
My family went to a vacation in Croatia a few years ago and we stayed in an Air BnB in Dubrovnik that advertised as having a washing machine. We settled in and eventually got around to asking where the machine was so we could do what laundry had accumulated during the trip. The owner's mother proudly announced, "I am the washing machine!" and did it in the sink. We then hung it on lines outside to dry and heard a cruise tour group that was going along the walls had their guide point to our laundry and say it was proof that locals still lived in the area and some of them decided to pose and take pictures with our laundry as the backdrop, which we found very amusing.
Speaking as a college student and lightweight traveler, if you know how to pack, it's often more convenient to just do a small batch of laundry in a sink than haul it over to a laundromat.
My family went to a vacation in Croatia a few years ago and we stayed in an Air BnB in Dubrovnik that advertised as having a washing machine. We settled in and eventually got around to asking where the machine was so we could do what laundry had accumulated during the trip. The owner's mother proudly announced, "I am the washing machine!" and did it in the sink. We then hung it on lines outside to dry and heard a cruise tour group that was going along the walls had their guide point to our laundry and say it was proof that locals still lived in the area and some of them decided to pose and take pictures with our laundry as the backdrop, which we found very amusing.
Speaking as a college student and lightweight traveler, if you know how to pack, it's often more convenient to just do a small batch of laundry in a sink than haul it over to a laundromat.
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I think the implication most people got (I certainly did) was that they not only don't have home washing machines but also don't have access to laundromats - and can't get them, due to Scarlet's statement "I'm not wealthy" - so it's not an issue of thriftiness on the personal level but scarcity on the societal level. That raises the question of "how do they have access to life support but not washing machines", which is what the majority of the discussion here has been about.