Imaginary Stories: A DC Producer Quest

I'm pretty flexible on the directors, because I don't actually know what script we went with for Batman or Catwoman.
This is the historical Year One script. Here's a paragraph synopsis: "After a brawl with prostitutes Selina Kyle, Holly Robinson and a confrontation with a dirty cop named Campbell leaves a trail of bodies and guilt, Bruce realizes his need to change his methodology and become something more than a thug fighting criminals. Bruce amps up his myth and method over the course of his investigations into Gotham's corruption and crimes. As he confronts more and more members of Gotham's high society and law enforcement that have intertwined themselves with the Gotham underworld, he comes to understand that he will have to be both Bruce Wayne and The Batman to bring true change and hope to Gotham. In a boiling subplot, Detective Gordon struggles with his infidelity and the blackmail opportunities it has given the corrupt cops around him, leading to an attack on his family and a show of cooperation between Gordon and The Batman that brings hope for what is to come."

With Aronofsky gone, the film is more likely to be a straight adaptation of Batman: Year One, with the concessions you succeeded in gathering in the negotiation sessions with Miller. Here's the wikipedia section with a synopsis of the Batman: Year One comic. The concessions achieved were a PG-13 rating, higher involvement of Carmine Falcone, and Chi-Chi being a club owner instead of a pimp with Selina Kyle and Holly Robinson being hostesses in his employ instead of prostitutes.

On Catwoman--You do not currently have a script for the project. There is an open Script Bounty, which is highlighting scripts similar to "The Catfile" storyline, with a link to the DC wikia for a synopsis of the comics here (you'll have to click through the issues) and a description of the in-universe Jane Goldman adaptation of The Catfile included in the update here. There are also a variety of Catwoman scripts in the apocrypha that could be selected from and a few historical Catwoman scripts summarized in this post here.

Batman: Battle for the Cowl
Anna Lee
"Don't worry, Bruce. We've got this."​
Added to the apocrypha! Going to give 2 Contribution Points here and a (???) Robin Interest, (+) Azazel Interest for the moment, but that may be updated as you update the WIP. I like the idea of a Batman film without Batman, and the way the story starts, I think you could include a Whatever Happened to the Caped Crusader? type introduction to the film at the funeral that builds into the later villain plots.

]CoreBrute: 3 Contribution Points for Vijay Sahni's Catwoman and King Tut treatment
KreenWarrior: 1 Contribution Points for Lucas Wainwright's Supergirl and the Rise of Bizarro treatment + (???) Supergirl Interest; 1 Contribution Points for Lucas Wainwright's Diamonds are Forever treatment + (???) Jane Goldman collab. interest
Thinker90: (+) Hawkman Interest and (+) Hawkgirl Interest for ??'s Hawkman and Hawkworld Thoughts
Kir the Wizard: 3 Contribution Points for Chris Baraniuk's Flash Chapter №1 + (++) The Flash Interest and (+) The Flash Directorial Interest
The Red Lady: 2 Contribution Points for Anna Lee's Batman: Battle for the Cowl + (???) Robin Interest and (+) Azazel Interest
 
Wow, this is quite a lot!

On the Batman side, I stand by my proposal of
[ ] [BAT-DIRECTOR] Irvin Kershner
He:
1. Had a good work relationship with Miller in day to day work on Robocop 2, tolerating Miller's suggestions despite a lot of the original script getting thrown out by the producers.
2. Is easy to work with and honest about others' contributions (despite having his signature directorial moments in ESB, he went out of his way to NOT claim full credit for the film, talking of Lucas's extensive "ghost-co-directing", in stark contrast to many other of Lucas's co-creators, like all the editors of Star Wars, which claimed that THEY saved the film_
3. Wants a secondary, advisory role, which is exactly what we need for Miller's directorial debut.
4. May be invigorated for more work, aside from the one IRL executive producer credit in 2009.
5. Adds "From the Director of the Empire Strikes Back" to our promos.

We need to make the Batman count.

Considering other choices for Batman, Rodriguez is definitely gonna be the case of "never meet your heroes" for Miller, and Radomski-Timm sound really incomparable with his take on Catwoman (even though I agree with their "saving grace" for Batman re:kids, might want to steal this one). Snyder is an auteur that may take over the script and the directing, hijacking stuff or allowing actors to hijack stuff (like what happened with Isenberg in BvS), and besides, as much as his take on Batman is obviously inspired for Miller's I fear that the two of them together will go off the deep end, as Miller is already about to go into his more cynical takes on Bats in the comics, resulting in something poisonous for the brand (let's get ONE film, in which our psychopathic vigilante actually has the NO-KILL RULE, okay? for all his edginess, Miller stood by it in both Y1 and TDKR).

I am more stumped with Catwoman, and would rather discuss it. First of all, no women directors interested??? Was the nepotism situation that bad?
  • Whedon is poison, so no thanks.
  • Leterrier is... okay, but I don't think his interests regarding the script and the style mash up with ours, do they?
  • Rodriguez has fun ideas, but I have no idea how good Kareena is with martial arts. And, again, he'll be throwing away the chosen script and style
  • Chechik, from what I can tell, is only good in that he'll listen to our orders. Maybe that's good?
  • BRUCE TIMM is being a prude about Catwoman??? Color me extremely surprised. Anyway his and Radomski's take, doesn't mesh well with our take in YO, but maybe that's fine, if we're treating the "hostess Catwoman" as her temporary job taken for a mission to spy on the Falcone mob.
  • Snyder does have mostly good things said about him from the women amongst the staff, doesn't he? I have no idea what his take on Catwoman would be (and if it wouldn't be repetitive when Miller already wants to do the redemption/inspiration aspect for Cats in his film). On the other hand, aside from words and praises, his direction often led to more risque costumes for women characters like the Amazons.
I think Jan de Bont wins me the most over, with his expressed wish to make sure Catwoman and Year One stay consistent, which is something you wouldn't hear from most directors. And the "Basic Instinct" vibes work for Catwoman.

But I'm willing to be convinced otherwise.
 
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Kind of convinced for Irvin Kershner, to be honest. Because, hey, worked with Miller, and ESB?

I...don't like Snyder at all. I get what he's doing but watching BvS I'm just...not into it.

Catwoman I don't have any preferences yet.


On Battle for the Cowl:

I'd like for a Whatever Happened Scene but I feel it might take focus from Dick coming to terms with stuff. And speaking of that, my brain is really stumped on what to do to give Dick's arc more...oomph, you know? Substance. Seems a bit shallow but I guess a good writer/director can fix that-
 
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First of all, no women directors interested??? Was the nepotism situation that bad?
It's a vicious situation here. Catwoman has been in development hell for a decade. They just cleaned house and dismissed a star actress, Halle Berry, for an unknown to Western audiences. Tim Burton couldn't make the project work and left, there was never a solid director replacement for him afterwards. Pitof, the final replacement the studio settled on, was primarily a VFX supervisor brought in from a foreign studio. Attaching your name to the project is a big risk for almost anyone who would want to try. The nepotism options here are more of saving graces available to Mr. Weisinger/the participants, bringing in directors at the fringe of interest in the project... but it might be better to push past them and really dig for more fitting directors.

But that is a good point, and it's certainly a reasonable reason to delay the project. "We want to redouble our efforts and search for a woman to direct" is definitely a path forward from here. There's some television directors that I could reasonably push up as interested in the project and some screenwriters who might be willing to throw down the gauntlet for the project, despite the risks entailed.
BRUCE TIMM is being a prude about Catwoman???
I'm going to reword this section a bit. It definitely comes off too prude-ish at the moment; it's meant to be enforcing that the pair want the film to be accessible to all audiences, rather than saying 'no sexy Catwoman'.
I have no idea what his take on Catwoman would be
Yeah, his ask for "any comic run recommendations?" in the post is a legitimate one if you take him as a candidate. He's a comic loyalist, he's going to pick a run and base his Catwoman off of that if chosen, but he's not set on any specific run and would work with the studio germanely on that topic.

I appreciate comments like these during the moratorium periods greatly.

EDIT: The Radomski/Timm section has been reworked. It now reads as follows:
Radomski and Timm have worked with Catwoman for nearly as long as they've worked with Batman, and they've never shied away from strong or unique interpretations of the character in that tenure. They have a preference for Catwoman as this Robin Hood type character, straying away from her more morally questionable or villainous performances. Radomski wants to emphasize a "family-friendly" nature for Catwoman and stray away from the more strictly sexual elements of her backstory in the Batman: Year One comic, pushing those elements into the subtext of the film rather than making them introductory character traits to her screen appearance. Timm has plenty of experience presenting Catwoman in both PG and adult styles, and has some clear interest around the prospect of highlighting Selina Kyle's beauty and control in live action, but he wants to be careful to handle Kyle's sexuality with respect to the actress and the audience. Catwoman is in control, even at her most risque, but that means different things when its an artist depicting a character on canvas or animation compared to a director making demands and suggestions of an actress for film.

Radomski's preference on the topic is to follow along with the reduction of Kyle's prostitute role to a hostess role, while Timm would push the topic back to the actresses and let them decide the full level of Selina Kyle and Holly Robinson's involvement with red light work.
 
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I'm going to reword this section a bit. It definitely comes off too prude-ish at the moment; it's meant to be enforcing that the pair want the film to be accessible to all audiences, rather than saying 'no sexy Catwoman'.

I appreciate comments like these during the moratorium periods greatly.

EDIT: The Radowski/Timm section has been reworked. It now reads as follows:
Oh! That actually make me want to see the Radowski/Timm take on Catwoman now.

EDIT: To expand, since we're dealing with a "development hell" case and they are new to live action, they may be perfect scapegoats, similar to Snyder. Then again, we might as well pick Snyder, especially if he's begging for a comic arc to recommend him. Just have him adapt Catfiles or a different heist story, but add some more marketable characters to the mix.

This is very much a work in progress and probably not the final script but here we go.

Batman: Battle for the Cowl
Anna Lee
"Don't worry, Bruce. We've got this."​
Had to comment, I really loved that story: sweet, coherent, and in control of the narrative!
My only wish would be for some comment/exposition on how Batman's actions have affected Gotham. Was his vigilantism for the worse, or for the better? This is something Dick can struggle with when considering whether to take the cowl or not, rather than him simply following his father figure's dying wish. If the "top criminal" is Penguin, who has gone mostly legit and controlling of his subordinates' activities, maybe that's a message that the criminals had to adapt to Batman's "rules", so as not to draw his ire, limiting violent crime. Maybe Sionis, or another upstart, is rising specifically because of the absence of Batman, feeling like it's an opportune time for a new violent gang war? Just some suggestions, if you're interested in expanding the treatment further.
 
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That's a really good point actually. I think we can use that to give Jim Gordon a scene where they talk about it, adding pressure on Dick as he battles his doubts.
 
Woof, that's a lot of rejection on Catwoman. Well, still going to push my Diamonds are Forever script so as long as the director isn't opposed to that I'm fine.
 
[x] [BAT-DIRECTOR] Irvin Kershner

[x] [CAT-DIRECTOR] Jan de Bont

I'm down for these two. It's a pity Rodriguez wouldn't go for the Catfile setup, otherwise I'd probably vote for him for the cat. As for the Bat, Whedon is a no-go; at this time, his reputation was pretty good IIRC, but we all know the stuff that came out about him in the last 20 years and I have no desire to boost him further in this AU. And having Radowski/Timm working on the bat with Miller when we specifically wanted a co-director for Miller to shore up his inexperience just doesn't work. I could see them as the Catwoman directors, though.
 
[X] [BAT-DIRECTOR] Robert Rodriguez
[X] [CAT-DIRECTOR] Zack Snyder

Decided to reverse my initial plan, Robert and Frank work together in Sin City and that movie is wickedly good.

And I was convinced that Zack is better for Catwoman, a riskier project so a newbie a safer choice. And despite what you may think on the surface, the cast of Sucker Punch was mentor a lot by Zack. Emily Browning even once said: "I would mop the floor for Zack, whatever he wanted me to do I'd be there. I would play 'Superman,' if Kevin Costner drops out, he wants me to play Superman's dad, I'm in for that".

He helps out the cast of Sucker Punch and pulls off the work he did to get them into functional screen martial artists that a lot of them appreciate. Kareena could use some of that element, especially in the martial art department for the role of Catwoman, the titled character herself. I think Zack and Kareen could pop off and get along very well.
 
Regarding Batman, I'm still voting
[X] [BAT-DIRECTOR] Irvin Kershner

Though on Catwoman, I'm open to multiple possibilities. Is approval voting okay?
[X] [CAT-DIRECTOR] Zack Snyder
[X] [CAT-DIRECTOR] Jan de Bont
[X] [CAT-DIRECTOR] Eric Radomski & Bruce Timm
 
[X] [BAT-DIRECTOR] Irvin Kershner

[X] [CAT-DIRECTOR] Eric Radomski & Bruce Timm

Yeah, this is the way I'm leaning.
 
[X] [BAT-DIRECTOR] Irvin Kershner
[X] [CAT-DIRECTOR] Zack Snyder
[X] [CAT-DIRECTOR] Louis Leterrier
Undecided on who should be the Catwoman director, there really isn't a especially good or bad choice.
 
Adhoc vote count started by Guiding Bolt on Feb 7, 2023 at 9:25 PM, finished with 21 posts and 9 votes.

Six hours until I close the vote. Hopeful to get an update out sometime in the morning!
 
February 2003: Roundtable on "Batman: Year One" with Frank Miller and Irvin Kershner
Scheduling a meeting between Miller, Kershner and yourself is a considerably more difficult task than scheduling a meeting for Branagh, Ford and yourself had been, but in the end you all find yourselves sitting down in the studio's boardroom and discussing plans for the production. Miller comes prepared with a stack of reference materials for the project: copies of Batman: Year One the comic book, drafts from his work on the Year One comic book, drafts of his and Aronofsky's script for the film, the original draft he penned for the film before collaboration with Aronofsky and the post-Aronofsky draft he's been working on to accommodate the changes requested in your last meeting. As Miller spreads the materials out across the table, your eyes catch on a number of blown-up stills from the comic that Miller's circled or otherwise marked as potential shot references.

Kershner glances over the materials and has a hearty laugh. "Some things never change, do they, Frank?" To his words, Frank Miller gives a slow sigh that you're sure he's been holding back for some time and leans back in his chair. Kershner picks up a copy of the Year One comic book and opens it, making a show of paging through it as Miller's grimace turns back to a grin. Kershner stops paging through it and sets the comic back down, open to the iconic frames of Wayne's declaration "I shall become a bat." It's not hard to see why Kershner likes the page—the facial zoom, the symmetric framing with earlier panels of a younger Bruce, the wounds and pain made visible on his face just a page back all clearly align with Kershner's own preferences and filming tendencies.

Kershner asks if the scene has made it to the modern draft, and you and Miller let him down easily; moving away from Bruce Wayne's riches and highlighting his MacGyver tendencies had been one of the intentional choices by Aronofsky that you greenlighted keeping in later drafts. In Aronofsky's script and in more recent versions, the scene instead takes place in Wayne's apartment and has an impassioned television interview with James Gordon, wherein he points to the camera and calls for 'you' (the audience at large) to fight back against Gotham's crime, inspire Bruce to tell his Father's signet ring that he finally knows what he must do. The scene is baked with symbolism, flashbacks and cuts to events in the world at large that have driven Bruce to his declaration and transformation, and done right, you expect it to be a powerful one. Kershner listens to the explanation and hums, before turning his eyes back to the comic book and his selected panel with a quiet "hmm."

Miller fills the silence after that, walking through some of the changes that've been made in the most recent revision of the script--he skips over the establishing scenes, instead starting his explanation with the first of the major changes you requested in the script.

The red-light-district Bruce finds Chi-Chi, Selina and Holly in has been transformed into a gentleman's club with private rooms, numerous dancers, seedy gambling operations and the clear presence of mobsters and their frequently coked out or otherwise clearly intoxicated girls. Instead of clearly propositioning Bruce, as she does in the original Year One comic and in the earlier Aronofsky-Miller scripts, Holly Robinson flirts with Bruce and invites him towards the club's backrooms before Selina Kyle tells her off and reminds her that the rooms are already booked for a priority client tonight. Bruce gets a drink from Holly and sits down, waiting to see who the priority client is, prompting Selina to sit down with him and make small-talk. Selina knows that Bruce isn't here to enjoy the dancers, but she doesn't know why he's here and she won't outright ask, enjoying the game of questioning him more than she thinks she'd enjoy the answer.

While Selina tries to figure him out, Bruce watches Detectives Flass and Campbell arrive. Flass quickly picks out a dancer/hostess—Holly—who drops what she's doing to attend to Flass's arm and give him a peck on the cheek, while Campbell takes his time looking around. Flass and Campbell make their rounds around the bar, collecting envelops and cash from numerous strippers and dancers as they walk through, before Chi-Chi pulls them aside. Chi-Chi leads them to the back of the house, and past Bruce's carefully chosen table, discretely handing them a yellow envelope as he passes. Flass wastes no time pricking the envelope open and flipping through the bills in it. Evidently, they aren't enough, and the detectives aren't hearing Chi-Chi's excuses this time.

Selina sees Bruce watching the exchange and distracts him, catching on to his interest in the money and lazily explaining that it's all part of the dues they pay to keep the place running, but in the background the detectives and Chi-Chi are continuing to argue. That background disagreement is pulled into the foreground as Campbell points to Selina and Chi-Chi's face lights up with relief. Chi-Chi grabs Selina from the booth and pulls her over to a predatory Flass and Campbell, before they all head into the backrooms. A moment later, a pissed-off Kyle storms off from the backroom and out the back door of the club, with a bruised Holly Robinson following after her. Bruce goes to get up and follow them, but Flass and Campbell push past him on their own way back out of the club. An angry Campbell, bleeding from scratch-marks across his face, tells Bruce off for getting in his way and gives him a shove back down to his table and Bruce realizes just how many eyes are on him for getting in the officers' ways. Bruce's monologue takes over as the script transitions to the next scene. "September 17. Father, it takes everything I have to contain this fury. I can feel it in my chest. It wants to escape, and I'm afraid of what I might do—"

Another scene, another night. Bruce monologues as he follows after a man from the shadows. That man is Detective Campbell, one of the corrupt cops he's been following and keeping tabs on ever since the 17th. He's returning to Chi-Chi's club, and as Bruce's monologue makes clear, it's past hours and he's wasted. Campbell tosses a cheap handle of vodka into the gutter as he crosses over to the club's backdoor then takes a second to sloppily collect himself before he heads up the exterior stairs to the apartments above the club.

There's shouting from inside, and moments later, Bruce's monologue is interrupted by gunfire and he rushes into the club to intervene in his barely put together costume. Bruce arrives in time to intervene in a bloody fight between Selina and Campbell, getting to the scene just as Campbell lifts Selina up into a chokehold and makes his announcement—"You're mine to do with as I please, you understand that? And now it's going to please me to KILL YOU." Bruce's arrival startles Campbell and pulls his attention away from Selina, stopping him from smashing another bottle against her head, and Bruce immediately starts fighting Campbell (and winning handily). As Campbell goes down with a shattered jaw, Selina swings the discarded bottle Campbell had intended for her head at Bruce's, shocking him and knocking him unconscious. The last thing Bruce hears as his vision fades out is Selina's apology and warning that "Campbell is mine."

When he comes back to consciousness, Campbell is dead and the bloody, jagged remains of the bottle-weapon is clutched tightly in Bruce's hand. Police can be heard outside the room discussing and the script shifts to focus on them, highlighting Detective James Gordon and Flass. Gordon tries to convince Flass to step back and let him handle the situation, accidently delaying Flass for a long enough time for Bruce to escape through a fire-escape window. Bruce hangs on for his life from the window, staring down the three-story drop to the ground outside and the piles of shattered bottles and trash from the club, while Flass and Gordon talk. Flass promises to have everyone involved in caskets for this, starting with that girl Kyle living in the apartment. When Gordon pushes back, Flass threatens him as well: "listen boy scout […] You're in over your head […] keep it up, and someone's going to get hurt." Bruce finally falls from the window into the bottles and trash. Moments later, as Bruce recovers in the trash, Flass storms out the back door of the club and unintentionally slams into Bruce, knocking him to the ground. Flass sniffs the alcohol and blood on Bruce and swears at him, yelling at Bruce to "watch where you're walking, punk" and mumbling about the city's "damn homeless problem" as he storms off.

There's a while after that where the script instead focuses on James Gordon, who could be considered a deuteragonist in the script. Following Gordon after his confrontation with Flass, we see him talking to his clearly pregnant wife about not wanting to raise a child in Gotham and how it'll be better once his transfer goes through. Ann Gordon, his wife, starts to sob and jerks away from him, pushing Gordon to apologize and try to reassure her—but it's a losing battle. The focus pans from James and Ann's argument and attempted reconciliation to the television blaring the news in the background, which talks about the city's crime wave and the story of the Wayne Corporation's missing heir and a 15-year deadline on his potential return to ownership of the company.

Later at work, Gordon goes to meet Commissioner Loeb to talk about his transfer out of Gotham, passing by an angry Harvey Dent on his way—and Loeb outright rejects the idea of Gordon leaving Gotham, telling him he needs to learn to play by the city's rules, casually suggesting he owns Gordon ever since he put on the badge and not-so-subtly threatening the life of Gordon's wife and their unborn child if he keeps stepping out of line. Gordon goes out on patrol and ends up involved in a hostage situation with heavy SWAT involvement and Loeb's direct presence; rather than negotiate and attempt to save the hostages, Loeb plans to have his snipers simply take out the criminal and the human shield he's using. Gordon rejects that outcome and leaves the police barricade, going in himself to negotiate and attempt to save the hostages. Gordon scales the building's fire-escape support to reach the top of the building, where a brewing storm brings down thunder, lightning and heavy rain over the criminal gunman and his hostage—now revealed to be a young boy, who the gunman is using as a human shield.

News helicopters circle around the building, catching all of the action on film—and the script dictates a switch in perspective to Bruce Wayne, who rages in his apartment and tries to cope with his fear that he murdered Campbell with the TV on in the background. Simultaneously, he struggles emotionally over a box containing his "inheritance," his memories flicking back to the night of his parent's death and his father's last words to him. Bruce is astray in the world, dealing with a true crisis of self that isn't easily resolved, and the environment around him reflects that with lights going out and the apartment physically shaking in response to the tumultuous storm outside.

The gunman pushes the gun into the child's mouth, continuing to hold him as a human shield, and makes clearly nonsensible threats to Gordon. Gordon pleads with him to trust in the system, to take his medicine and spare himself and the child, but it's to no avail. As the gunman cocks the gun and prepares to take his life and the child's, Gordon charges him, at first going for a haymaker but slipping against the slick roof and slide-tackling the child instead. Gordon rips the child away as the gunman pulls the trigger, offing himself but not the child. The shot of the gun spooks a group of bats who had been sheltering from the storm on the rooftop, and they rush across the television screen and out of vision.

The dying gunman reaches a bloody hand out towards Gordon and the child, which is paralleled by Bruce's memory of his father's bloody hand and the signet-ring his father spent his last moments pulling off and giving to him. Bruce has been ripped away from his monologue and self-hate by the sound of gunshots and stares fully at the television as the media helicopters swing down and mob towards Gordon. A reporter yells out to Gordon, muffled by the sound of the helicopters: "You went against direct orders from the commissioner. Why didn't you follow normal police procedures?"

And Gordon responds: "I don't like what passes for NORMAL in this town. CRIME is NORMAL in GOTHAM. CORRUPTION is NORMAL. The scum of this city have taken so much from us, our youth, our families. I've declared my WAR ON CRIME!" From there, he points directly to the news camera, a new determination spreading over his face. "Now YOU must FIGHT BACK for what's been lost!"

In Bruce's apartment, it all comes together. He opens the box, pulling the still bloodstained Wayne signet-ring from it, and draws it close to his face—setting up for a camera shot of just his face, the bloody ring and the darkness behind him. Bruce says "he gets it," and spins the script's version of the iconic scene Kershner had pointed out: "I get it, Father. I must become a bat."

This is all so far in the establishing act of the film, only barely coming to the point in the story where Bruce Wayne realizes he must become The Batman, and there's much more of the script still in progress and detail in the script that Miller doesn't have time to summarize here. Miller takes a pause for breath after that and sets down the script he had been reading and pointing out parts from. Kershner taps his fingers against the table, taking it all in and looking back down at the notes he took throughout.

Miller eyes the two of you and grunts. That's where he's at with the script right now, anyway, and he's sure that you know the broad-strokes for the rest of the script and plan. Still, he goes over the cliffnotes:

Gordon works to unravel the scope of the corrupt police operations while Bruce makes his first public appearances as The Batman and builds up an urban legend that inspires fear in his enemies. Gordon is working with the Mayor secretively, reporting directly to him with his discoveries on Gotham's corruption. As The Batman, Bruce is branding criminals with scars styled after a Bat, which only builds into the media stir around him and his actions. Eventually, Gordon is reassigned to The Bat Case by Loeb as a way to keep him occupied and away from certain member of the police force's extracurricular activities. The growing attention placed on The Batman and the stories of his actions inspire Selina Kyle to become a vigilante of her own and get back at Gotham for its foul treatment. Gordon's investigations and The Batman's war on crime come towards the same target: Estrada, the kingpin behind Gotham's drug operations, a hand in every crime in Gotham and the true owner of Chi-Chi's club. Chi-Chi's club is a front for smuggling women illegally into the country to work as strippers, to be forced into prostitution or to be sold as mail-order brides to wealthy Gothamites or as rewards for good behavior among Loeb's police officers.

Bruce uses Chi-Chi as a means to reach Estrada and drugs Estrada with an experimental LSD-based "truth serum," causing the drugged Estrada to publicly reveal the full extent of his operations and his collaborations with Commissioner Loeb. Despite his full confession and the allegations he raised, when the police find Estrada, he walks: nothing Estrada said is admissible in court due to the kidnapping, abuse and drugs involved in the situation. Gordon is outraged. Batman listens to the tapes over and over and works himself into a rage, monologuing on how the enemy is everywhere and even a drug kingpin like Estrada is just a "soldier" in the real general of crime's game. Alfred discovers Bruce's second identity as The Batman after following Bruce's blood-trails one night, finding him passed out in a junkyard that's also serving as his lair, and has to perform an emergency blood transfusion to keep Bruce alive.

Loeb meets with the mayor, who is revealed to be a good friend of Loeb and active participant in the city's corruption, and assures him that the vigilante will be caught soon and that things will blow over. To ease the mayor's concerns, Loeb shares news that Estrada's new girls will be coming to town soon, but the mayor wants someone else. Someone less scared and broken. Loeb goes on the prowl for a girl fitting the mayor's wants. Gordon and Dent meet up again and Gordon reveals the aftermath of the Loeb revelations to the public: his office has been ransacked, all of his collected evidence destroyed, and news reports invented and spread throughout the city that The Batman fed Estrada lies about the police department in order to make the city reliant on his wicked justice instead. Loeb ends up picking up Selina Kyle, thinking her a streetwalker when she's spotted in her early Catwoman getup, and waves her over to his car with an invitation to work a private party for special clientele. Kyle accepts, not planning to attend the party but planning to get her revenge on Loeb and his corrupt police.

At Loeb's mansion, clearly funded by his illicit activities and crime empire, Loeb gathers everyone for a speech by the Mayor—who stumbles over his words and is clearly terrified at seeing the full scope of criminals, thieves, monsters and murderers he's associated himself with—but ends up interrupting the Mayor and giving his own speech, praising The Batman for finally giving them what they need: a scapegoat and a story. As he gives his twisted speech, Batman makes his slow infilitration of the party, preparing to take it down with spectacle. During the speech, Selina slips the Mayor's arm and starts searching through Loeb's mansion for his vault, planning to rob him blind while he's preoccupied—in the process, she enters a scuffle with some guards and takes them out with her fake-nail claws and her whip, only to be outnumbered and surrounded by a larger group of guards armed with guns. The Batman's timely arrival saves her, and he pulls her into The Batmobile. Batman abandons his plans to crash the party to save her, but when she flirts to him about finally finding a real man, he tells her he plans to bring her in for the murder of a police officer, Detective Campbell. Selina convinces him otherwise, pinning the blame for Campbell's death on Chi-Chi… but there's a level of doubt hanging over it all and an uncertainty of who truly did Campbell in. Bruce lets her go. For now.

The Batman goes to meet Gordon while Gordon is on patrol, having pegged Gordon as the one uncorrupt cop in the city through his investigations throughout the film. Gordon springs a trap on Batman and brings in other officers to arrest her, forcing Batman to escape into an abandoned building. Loeb orders it bombed, uncaring for Batman's life or for the life of the homeless inside it. The bomb drops. Batman is hit in the blast and struggles to find shelter, eventually hunkering down in what he hopes is a secure area of the building as the explosion's fire spreads. The building wasn't cleared before the blast, and many people inside are dying from it—but Loeb and his corrupt officers don't care, standing outside to watch the fire with eager eyes. As the fire slows and there's no sight of the Batman's departure, Loeb orders a SWAT team to head inside and "take no prisoners." Injured and shaken by the fire, Bruce nonetheless beats back the SWAT team through trickery and clever judo and escapes out the building into the night. Gordon realizes that the Batman snuck something into his pocket, and discovers a microfilm camera, where Batman has stored a copy of all his collected evidence on Estrada's crime syndicate and Loeb's culpability. It's a silver bullet.

Gordon gives the evidence over to Harvey Dent, who takes down Estrada and sets his case against Loeb into motion. Gordon has a confrontation with Flass, and the two fight it out, before Flass lets Gordon in on a secret: the fight was a distraction to get him away from his wife, and Loeb's paying her a visit now. If Gordon runs now, maybe he'll have a chance to say "hi" to her before she's gone.

At the scene of the crime, Loeb's goons—a mix of recognizable police officers out of uniform and the criminal goons who were present at Chi-Chi's bar or Estrada's operations—are kidnapping the heavily pregnant Ann Gordon and forcing her into the back of a SUV. Loeb, while smoking a fat cigar, laughs at her and monologues on how it all could've been avoided if Gordon knew his place… but admits that even he didn't want to take it as far as Gordon's forced their hand. And they won't. Loeb taps his cigar to her pregnant belly. When Gordon arrives to save her, they'll kill him, and if Ann knows what's good for her she'll disappear forever.

There's a climatic showdown as Gordon and The Batman converge on the scene and attempt to save Ann's life. Gordon and Bruce take down many of Loeb's goons and convince him to abandon the fight and flee in the SUV, but Bruce manages to catch onto it with his grappling hook and ride along as they drive away, struggling to make his way into the car as Loeb's men continue to shoot at him and drive erratically in hopes of throwing him off. Finally, their erratic driving has consequence, smashing into another vehicle and flipping Batman off the car to roll through shattered windshield glass. Loeb tears out of the car and drags Ann with him as a human shield, clutching his revolver, while his goons stumble out of the car to finish off The Batman. Gordon catches up in the chaos and takes the last shots with his revolver to take down Loeb's goons, allowing The Batman to rise from the glass – unmasked, with his costume ripped apart by the crash and the bullets – and chase after Loeb, armed now only with the branding knife he's used throughout the film.

As Batman and Gordon close in on Loeb, he taunts them that neither of them will be able to kill him, and that it's all coming to an end for The Batman. After all, he's seen Bruce's face now, and with Ann as a human shield neither of them can risk attacking. Gordon threatens Loeb with an empty gun, but Loeb knows that if Gordon had a shot left he'd already have taken it. While Loeb prepares to taunt Batman on the uselessness of codes, Batman rushes forward and stabs Loeb through the eye, uncaring of the six bullets he's hit with in the dash to Loeb. Loeb releases Ann and writhes to the ground, screaming in agony, as Bruce pulls the knife out and cuts a Z across Loeb's other eye and cheek. Ann, James and the Batman stare at each-other as Loeb writhes in pain… and rather than arrest Bruce, James takes off his glasses and drops them, commenting it's a damn shame he's nearly blind without them.

As police arrive, ambulances come a storm starts up again, Bruce disappears while James and Ann embrace. Alfred picks Bruce up in one of the Pennyworth Garage trucks and Bruce's vision fades to black. Bruce monologues once more to his father's memory: "DECEMBER 18. Dear Father, you've taught me well […] and for that I am grateful. But I am ready to find my own way now. I will make the most of your inheritance. And I will always honor your memory."

The film's credits end with a scene of Selina robbing the Wayne Mansion, as a housekeeper watching the news in the mansion listens to the report on the downfall of Loeb's crime empire and the return of Gotham's heir, Bruce Wayne, to the public. Selina sees Bruce's face on TV, recognizes it and drops the priceless necklace she was sneaking away with, spooking the housekeeper. When the housekeeper turns to face Selina, Selina raises her whip—and the housekeeper faints on the sight. With a giggle and an "oops," Selina blows a kiss to Bruce's image on the tv (as the news header declares him Gotham's newest eligible bachelor) and escapes to the night.

Miller finishes the telling of the cliff-notes. He'll no doubt be going by scene-by-scene with Kershner later to talk about planned shot selection and adjustments to fix the noticeable pacing issues and rapid scene switches, but there's a larger topic that you notice and need to address: Falcone.

Falcone is not a part of the script at all, even after the last discussion you and Miller had about the film. It wouldn't be that hard to replace Estrada's character in the film with Falcone, but that would still leave Loeb as the film's primary and dominating villain. Miller suggests that it'd be a waste to use the character in as small a role as Estrada's, when he could be used as a villain in a later establishment or in the Catwoman film, and admits he's had trouble reworking the script to make Falcone the main villain without compromising the script's thematic core. Loeb and the crime of Gotham come from the top, not because Gotham was hijacked by criminals, but because Gotham is built by and for the mob, the mad and the malicious.

If a different villain is needed for merchandising, Kershner suggests replacing Estrada with a villain with a more vivid appearance but low potential for use. Surely The Batman has those, or some could be invented? Earlier thoughts of Great White Shark, Killer Croc or some invented Flamingo-themed villain come to mind…


[] [ESTRADA] Keep Estrada as he is: a drug-and-crime kingpin in Loeb's pocket.
[] [ESTRADA] Replace Estrada with Carmine Falcone, Gotham's kingpin and a partner of Loeb.
[] [ESTRADA] Replace Estrada with the Great White Shark, a "businessman" turned kingpin with filed teeth and a steroid addiction under Loeb's control.
[] [ESTRADA] Replace Estrada with Killer Croc, a mutated monster of a man whose skin condition and deformity keep him out of society and reliant on Loeb.
[] [ESTRADA] Replace Estrada with […] Write-in a villainous option.


Even considering having her own film in the works, Catwoman is a minor presence in this film. Though she's important and plot-driving in the scenes she does appear in, she is frequently an afterthought to the main storylines of Gordon and The Batman's war on crime. Kershner has shown in the past he can interweave multiple character's plots satisfyingly on screen, which might make it feasible to increase Catwoman's screentime and relevance to the film's mid-section, but it risks lengthening what already appears to be a complex and delicate film. If you choose to increase Catwoman's role in the film, it'd be good to have suggestions for Miller on new scenes or reworking of existing scenes to better highlight her presence.


[] [CAT-TIME] Increase Catwoman's role in the film.
[] [CAT-TIME] Keep Catwoman as a tertiary character in the film.
[] [CAT-TIME] Decrease Catwoman's role in the film.


There is some concern that the scenes with Ann and her pregnancy are a step too far into grim darkness and that the story would be better received without her pregnancy being involved. Miller doesn't seem too attached to it, but would like to re-introduce Gordon's infidelity plotline if Ann's pregnancy plotline is to be removed. Kershner doesn't comment one way or another on the situation. You suppose you could always include both plotlines, but it's hard to imagine audiences responding well to a James Gordon that cheats on his pregnant wife.


[] [AFFAIRS] Gordon cheats on Ann with his partner, Detective Essen.
[] [AFFAIRS] Gordon doesn't cheat.
[] [GORDON-JR] Ann isn't pregnant.
[] [GORDON-JR] Ann is pregnant.


Before you move on to the next topic, and get away from the script topic for the day, are there any other revisions you'd like to request be made..?

[] [REVISION] xxx…





With the talk of the script tabled, conversation flows to the topic of casting. With Kareena Kapoor and Eliza Dushku already signed on for the Catwoman film, and the films taking place in a shared continuity, Kapoor is already locked into the role of Selina Kyle and Dushku into an unspecified supporting Catwoman role. You anticipate that she'll be taking the role of Holly Robinson, but it isn't impossible that she take the role of an invented character or a different rogue active in the Catwoman film, like Magpie.

Miller and Aronofsky had previously made plans to cast Joaquin Phoenix (28) in the role of Bruce Wayne and Batman. Joaquin Phoenix's most recent notable role in Gladiator highlighted the actor's capability in diverse roles, but it didn't make a strong argument for Phoenix as a leading man or a heroic figure. That was part of the appeal to Aronofsky: a non-traditional Batman for a non-traditional Batman film, an anti-hero not just in the cruelty of his actions but in the traditional Byronic sense of the term. Phoenix's hard-set gaze, scarred lip and often tortured eyes made him the perfect match for Miller's envisioned self-targeted temper tantrums and raging monologues to his father's memory.

Of course, with Aronofsky out of the picture, Miller's open to exploring a much wider assortment of actors…

Ben Affleck (30) is a young actor with a Golden Globe and an Academy Award already to his name, experience as a leading man in Armageddon (1998), The Sum of All Fears (2002) and numerous impressive supporting roles including a lauded performance in the crime drama Boiler Room (2000). He has an expressed interest in the character, notes himself as fond of a number of Frank Miller comics, and believes it's time to give the character a more serious showing after the flights of fancy the last films went on.

Christian Bale (28) is an actor you've already considered in the past, for the role of Superman, but he has the clear acting chops and style to make it as Batman instead if you so choose. Bale's approach to physical transformations in his roles and his diverse sense of fashion and style could translate into a Bruce Wayne performance that ramps up and transforms over the course of filming, giving the audience a much more powerful visual cue of him rising to the mantle of The Batman.

Javier Bardem (33) is an incredibly talented Spanish actor whose already been tapped by legends like John Malkovich for potential American performances. Those traits that inspired Aronofsky to highlight Joaquin Phoenix as his first choice exist in spades when it comes to Bardem, as the actor effortless affects a truly haunting appearance and dark, brooding eyes that capture the Byronic hero's inner turmoil. Bardem is deeply interested in playing the role and emphasizing the gray mortality of this Batman as his English-language debut.

Orlando Bloom (27) is another actor you've already passed over for Superman, but many would say he's a more natural fit for Bruce Wayne regardless. Bloom himself is more interested in the role of Wayne than he was Kent, finding the more grounded stories of Batman a more interesting turn in his career after his experience with Lord of the Rings. You expect him to excel in future explorations of Batman's "playboy" disguise and to navigate the noir scenes of Year One with an archer's precision.

Adrien Brody (29) is a star made off his work in 2002 alone, propelled to numerous awards and admiration for his sensational performance in The Pianist. He's the youngest actor to ever win the Academy Award for Best Acting and showcased a horrifying devotion to his roles in the process he underwent preparing for that role, dropping nearly 40 pounds and completely isolating himself to get into his role's headspace. That same devotion to this role as Bruce Wayne could see the man transform into your mad, brooding and emotionally wrecked hero with an unquestionable skill.

Colin Farrell (26) is an Irish actor making his break into American films through a run of successful, though not particularly outstanding films. The studio expects he's ready to take the next step into true stardom given the right opportunity, and with the character of Bruce Wayne, he seems a natural fit. A more traditional hero than some of the others, he's known to give off a sort of "bad-boy" image that could be shaped into a more aggressive rather than tragic take on the Batman, or could be pulled back into a take of the character more passionate and expressive than the script's current broody preference.

Jake Gyllenhaal (23) is a younger actor most well known for his classic performance on Donnie Darko (2001) alongside his sister Maggie, who applied last month for the Catwoman role. You're glad you avoided the potential awkwardness that could've brought to the set. Gyllenhaal is in a similar vein as Bale and Brody, ready to devote himself to a role and clearly following in the footsteps of previous great method actors.

Joe Manganiello (26) made his debut in Spider-Man, playing the bully Flash Thompson, but in the three years since the film he's had an almost complete transformation in appearance and bulk. Manganiello is a very well-built man, easily selling the physical strength and enhanced endurance Batman's character possesses as well as the raw intimidation factor the character is meant to bring in and out of the mask. In this take on the character, which involves much more fighting and thuggery on Batman's side outside of costume than past versions, Manganiello provides an edge in strength and stature that few other actors can match.

Jeffrey Dean Morgan (36) is on the older side of applicants with an interesting career that jumped back and forth between TV and film without ever hitting true stardom. A comics fan since his youth, Morgan has expressed interest in stories that deconstruct the superhero genre and explore darker themes of what makes a hero, citing an interest in Alan Moore's Watchman and Frank Miller's Return of the Dark Knight. There's some thought that his strong, baritone voice could create an iconic take on Batman's sound.

Nikolaj Coster-Waldau (32) came to your attention through Kenneth Branagh's suggestion for Superman, but as the studio has conducted their initial meetings with him, there's some interest in bringing the man in to audition for the role of Batman instead. The actor's shown interest and potential in playing characters that wade through morally gray situations or struggle with righting their own goals in the world with their views of what makes a hero or what separates right from wrong. If not chosen for the role of Batman or Superman, Nikolaj has expressed interest playing the role of Jim Gordon as well.

[] [BATMAN-ACTOR] xx
[] [BATMAN-ACTOR] Open up a Casting Call

You could, of course, open up a Casting Call for the role if you don't find any of these initial options promising, or delay the casting of Bruce Wayne until sometime later in production. Once you have a Bruce Wayne selected to anchor the cast around, or a few potential Bruce Waynes selected to set a course for the cast around, you can turn to the subject of potential selections or casting calls for the rest of the cast.

There's still much of the meeting to go—from discussions on locations for the film, tie-ins with Snyder's take on Catwoman, Kershner's thematic analyses, costume design and the selection of a production crew—but Miller calls for a smoke break before you continue. You take the time to get another coffee. It's going to be a long week.
 
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MORIATORIUM 12 // VOTE 12
Voting will open at 11:00 AM CST 2/8/2023, approx.~ 4 hours from the time of this post. Treat voting for the actor at this point as "voting to come in for more auditions," rather than voting for your necessary #1 choice. There's hopefully a lot to discuss and decide on here, and I'll try to be available in thread to answer any questions as they pop up.

Ben Affleck appears here and there's no mention of a "Daredevil" film in his backstory. Hmm. It's probably nothing, no background changes in Marvel and Fox's plans taking place here....

[] [ESTRADA] Keep Estrada as he is: a drug-and-crime kingpin in Loeb's pocket.
[] [ESTRADA] Replace Estrada with Carmine Falcone, Gotham's kingpin and a partner of Loeb.
[] [ESTRADA] Replace Estrada with the Great White Shark, a "businessman" turned kingpin with filed teeth and a steroid addiction under Loeb's control.
[] [ESTRADA] Replace Estrada with Killer Croc, a mutated monster of a man whose skin condition and deformity keep him out of society and reliant on Loeb.
[] [ESTRADA] Replace Estrada with […] Write-in a villainous option.

[] [CAT-TIME] Increase Catwoman's role in the film.
[] [CAT-TIME] Keep Catwoman as a tertiary character in the film.
[] [CAT-TIME] Decrease Catwoman's role in the film.


[] [AFFAIRS] Gordon cheats on Ann with his partner, Detective Essen.
[] [AFFAIRS] Gordon doesn't cheat.

[] [GORDON-JR] Ann isn't pregnant. Gordon doesn't cheat.
[] [GORDON-JR] Ann isn't pregnant. Gordon cheats on Ann with his partner, Detective Essen.

[] [BATMAN-ACTOR] Ben Affleck
[] [BATMAN-ACTOR] Christian Bale
[] [BATMAN-ACTOR] Javier Bardem
[] [BATMAN-ACTOR] Orlando Bloom
[] [BATMAN-ACTOR] Adrien Brody
[] [BATMAN-ACTOR] Colin Farrell
[] [BATMAN-ACTOR] Jake Gyllenhaal
[] [BATMAN-ACTOR] Joe Manganiello
[] [BATMAN-ACTOR] Joaquin Phoenix
[] [BATMAN-ACTOR] Jeffrey Dean Morgan
[] [BATMAN-ACTOR] Nikolaj Coster-Waldau
[] [BATMAN-ACTOR] Open up a Casting Call
CoreBrute: 3 Contribution Points for Vijay Sahni's Catwoman and King Tut treatment
KreenWarrior: 1 Contribution Points for Lucas Wainwright's Supergirl and the Rise of Bizarro treatment + (???) Supergirl Interest; 1 Contribution Points for Lucas Wainwright's Diamonds are Forever treatment + (???) Jane Goldman collab. interest
Thinker90: (+) Hawkman Interest and (+) Hawkgirl Interest for ??'s Hawkman and Hawkworld Thoughts
Kir the Wizard: 3 Contribution Points for Chris Baraniuk's Flash Chapter №1 + (++) The Flash Interest and (+) The Flash Directorial Interest
The Red Lady: 2 Contribution Points for Anna Lee's Batman: Battle for the Cowl + (???) Robin Interest and (+) Azazel Interest
 
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Right, so right now I'm not awake enough to think of revisions-

But I do have thoughts.

I think we can just keep Ann pregnant and remove the cheating thing. Easy Batgirl foreshadowing if we're doing it! (This isn't just me saying this because Battle for the Cowl has Babs, I swear-)

Not attached to Estrada, to be honest. That can be whatever.

I want to keep Selina's role smaller here but very impactful as a teaser to her own movie.

Now...casting. First instinct is give Batffleck a fair chance at an actual Batman series ha-

But, like with our Superman, I think a younger Bruce works here the most.

Nik can totally be Gordon though, that's an awesome get-
 
My suggestions:
[ ] [ESTRADA] Replace Estrada with Write-in: Sophia Falcone Gigante, an incredibly tall, physically strong, ruthless daughter of the infamous Carmine Falcone.
Do this to set up Carmine Falcone for the future (maybe have him make a menacing cameo phoning to Loeb to make sure his daughter is released, or the one where he appears in the well-known dining scene from Year One. Sophia has a number of memorable looks, aside from her redhead gigantic version, there's the bald and crazed hangman version, another one where she pretends to be wheelchair-bound.
(For added bonus, the character's creator was Jeph Loeb)




Alternatively,
[ ] [ESTRADA] Replace Estrada with Write-in: Sal Maroni, a lesser Italian gang boss, who collaborated with the police in hopes of one day replacing Falcone
Maroni is less "cinematic", but can set up a Two-Face film for the future, if we want. Still, I'd like to see Sophia Gigante more.

[ ] [CAT-TIME] Keep Catwoman as a tertiary character in the film.
I don't think we need too much from her. Maybe have her come back for the confrontation vs Falcone?

I'm not sure what to vote re: pregnancy, because... I didn't get what's grimdark about it? What's the vote to leave it as it is?
I don't want them to introduce Essen into an already big and complex script, and, yeah, Gordon cheating on his pregnant wife does make him extra questionable for most movie-goers, even though that would make for making him a deeper, tragic character.

I think we can just keep Ann pregnant and remove the cheating thing. Easy Batgirl foreshadowing if we're doing it! (This isn't just me saying this because Battle for the Cowl has Babs, I swear-)
Oh, cheating is not even in the script right now, Miller just wants to add it IF we remove the pregnancy, because he wants at least some drama between the Gordons
 
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I'm not sure what to vote re: pregnancy, because... I didn't get what's grimdark about it? What's the vote to leave it as it is?
I don't want them to introduce Essen into an already big and complex script, and, yeah, Gordon cheating on his pregnant wife does make him extra questionable for most movie-goers, even though that would make for making him a deeper, tragic character.
Thanks for pointing this one out--the vote to leave it as is was meant to be included already, but an earlier version of the vote got included in the update instead (I originally had it structured as one task vote for both the pregnancy element and the cheating element, but I changed it to two separate task votes to make things easier, but when I posted the update I only copied over the fixed version of the pregnancy vote and not the fixed version of both votes). It's fixed now. PREGNANT-YES and CHEAT-NO fit the current situation, if you want it kept as is.
 
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