Ignition Wrestling

Hey, a WRESTLEQUEST! Hooray!


[x] Male
[x] Drake Dragonheart
[X] Legacy, either you're related to or the prized student of a former superstar and they managed to get you in the door

[X] Plan Knight
-[X] Power
-[X] High Flying ability
-[X] Charisma

Basically, an Arthurian knight from a bygone era, coming to wrestle with the blessing of his mentor, a long-retired wrestler. Who does high-flying. Because wrestling.
 
So, I'm probably going to call this some time tomorrow, probably around 2 pm. In the interest of trying to see if I can break up the 5 way Skill Plan tie I am going to share some of my personal thoughts on things. If the Tie remains a tie when I call the vote ... not 100% sure what I'll do, I might switch it to line voting and just give you all whatever 3 skills collected the most votes, I might roll a 4 sided dice and pick whichever plan was selected via the dice, or I might even just vote myself for which ever plan I like the best because I reserve the right to do that in the case of a tie.

I'll probably leave the name vote open for at least one more update, maybe more, as it's not particularly relevant until you have to introduce yourself.

Okay, personal thoughts time.

Gotta admit, genuinely surprised it took this long for someone to vote for High Flying ability. Sorta figured that it would be more popular, I've always thought it was one of the most fun parts of the video games and it usually get's huge pops in the shows. I do sort of hope it wins because it really is a treat and I think it would be fun to write on a regular basis, it just adds a whole new dimension to the matches.

I'm still unsure if I want Agility to be a skill/stat category. It just shares so much space with high flying in my mind that it's a little hard for me to justify but, as Eva pointed out in a conversation, there are a good number of characters that are highly agile and fast but don't really do the high flying thing, and there are a decent handful of maneuvers that really are more agility based than any of the other categories.

You don't need to actually go out of your way to train to advance a skill, it certainly helps, but every choice you make, partiularly in a fight, helps develop your character. For instance, if you decide to use a Shining Wizard on your opponent and follow it up with a Sharpshooter, that will help you progress in your Strike and Submission skills despite having not trained them on your own time.

Now, you may ask yourself why you would ever use skills that you aren't good with in a match and, well, that's because it might sometimes be smarter to use those skills. Depending on the situation using a skill you aren't the best at might be a better choice then one you are great at, for example, if someone is going to do a moonsault upon you rasing your knees (Strike) or rolling out of the way (Agility) is much more likely to work then trying to pop up and catch the enemy to deliver a powerbomb (Power/Agility mix) no matter how high your Power skill is. Durability and Agility will raise on their own as time goes by pretty much no matter what you do. For another example, even if you can lift the Big Show/Andre the Giant expy, just so you know can't yet but you can build to it, it's probably not the best idea to use Power move after Power move for the entire match and nothing else, that's an easy way to exhaust yourself and lose the match. These are some fairly extreme examples I admit, but I'm sure you all understand what I'm getting at here.

The rest of this isn't really relevant to the current vote, but I've already written it for the most part without thinking so I might as well post it, no sense having all that time go to waste.

I'm not 100% sure, but for the moment I think I'll keep the IWS promotion to one show a week with monthly pay per views. Two shows a week feels like it might be too hard to keep track of at the moment. A few months down the road though the IWS might get a brand extension as a way to shake things up a little bit.

I just started watching Lucha Underground and, I have to say, pretty fun show so far. I'm super early into the show so all of my ideas about the plot are probably wrong, but it's definetly giving me some ideas for this quest. Also, not really relevant, Chavo Guerrero Jr. is in it which is nice, but they keep mentioning Eddie and I want to cry every time. If anyone is interested, Eddie's trick where he throws the chair to his opponent when the ref isn't looking and drops to the ground as if he struck by said chair, resulting in the ref declaring him the winner by DQ, is a very high level

Shawn Michaels is my favorite wrestler so I find it a little weird that I have no plans to have an expy of him in the IWS at the current time. It's probably inevitable that he'll show up, but I have no current plans to bring him in. The owner of the company is Vance Mahoney for fairly obvious reasons, and the Bret Hart expy killed the Undertaker expy before either of them joined the IWS so, as you can imagine, they feud occasionally.
 
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I'm just going to brainstorm for a bit because I have no idea how this whole wrestling thing works but it seems like an intriguing concept for a fantasy kitchen sink world and I need to explore the state space a bit here.

[] Plan I am a dragon your argument is invalid
-[] Charisma
-[] Charisma
-[] Power

Maximize momentum gain by doing powerful moves and being charismatic. If a fight goes long enough you are guaranteed to win.

[] Base Plan Jackie Chan holding a vase but doesn't want any trouble
-[] Technique
-[] Striking
-[] Agility

If he gets his hands on a ladder it's all over.

[] Base Plan I've seen enough anime to know where this is going
-[] Submission skills
-[] Charisma
-[] Dirty skills

...

[] Base Plan Vulture Eats Turtle Technique
-[] High Flying ability
-[] Submission skills
-[] Power

Grab, fly high, drop, *crack*
 
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No, but I've heard good things about it and plan to get around to it someday.

Why?
One of the characters is into wrestling, so of course a wrestling match happens. I was wondering if one of the things they did there would be possible for us, but if you haven't read the books I don't think I could adequately explain it.
 
I'm just going to brainstorm for a bit because I have no idea how this whole wrestling thing works but it seems like an intriguing concept for a fantasy kitchen sink world and I need to explore the state space a bit here.

[x] Base Plan I am a dragon your argument is invalid
-[x] Charisma
-[x] Charisma
-[x] Power

Maximize momentum gain by doing powerful moves and being charismatic. If a fight goes long enough you are guaranteed to win.

[x] Base Plan Jackie Chan holding a vase but doesn't want any trouble
-[x] Technique
-[x] Striking
-[x] Agility

If he gets his hands on a ladder it's all over.

[x] Base Plan I've seen enough anime to know where this is going
-[x] Submission skills
-[x] Charisma
-[x] Dirty skills

...

[x] Base Plan Vulture Eats Turtle Technique
-[x] High Flying ability
-[x] Submission skills
-[x] Power

Grab, fly high, drop, *crack*
All of these plans are perfectly fine but, uh, if you aren't voting for a plan don't have the x in the [], and you can only vote for one skill plan at a time.

I'm fine with you creating multiple plans as a way to think them through, but you're only allowed to vote for one of them at a time.

One of the characters is into wrestling, so of course a wrestling match happens. I was wondering if one of the things they did there would be possible for us, but if you haven't read the books I don't think I could adequately explain it.
Which books is it? I'm willing to at the very least skim it till I find the scene and read it so I can give you an informed answer.

Without having read the book the only thing I can say is probably.
 
All of these plans are perfectly fine but, uh, if you aren't voting for a plan don't have the x in the [], and you can only vote for one skill plan at a time.

I'm fine with you creating multiple plans as a way to think them through, but you're only allowed to vote for one of them at a time.
Ah, sorry! One of the more deeply-buried versions of the vote-tally program: a base plan, which is different from a plan, is put up with no vote for it. It's just registered as a named plan with zero votes in case someone else wants to vote for it. Docs here. If you're tallying by hand I can go back and clean those up so they don't mess with you.
 
One of the characters is into wrestling, so of course a wrestling match happens. I was wondering if one of the things they did there would be possible for us, but if you haven't read the books I don't think I could adequately explain it.
The Atlantis Complex, iirc.
Is it the part where Butler hits the turnbuckle out of alignment and uses it to literally dismantle the ring?

No, no you cannot do that. You are not allowed to intentionally destroy the ring. That is absolutely something I'm not going to let you do any time soon.
 
I'm tallying by hand at the moment.
Fixed, sorry.

Let's try to approach this from the direction of "what would be most fun to quest". Just face-tanking things or punching things out would be fun, but I think it might get a bit boring after a while. I'd like something with more flexibility and depth. Particularly if we want discussion, which is the lifeblood of any quest, we want a skillset that will give us multiple options in every situation and require non-obvious optimizations and tricks. Given this, I think we probably want to focus on these:

[] Technique
[] High Flying ability
[] Charisma
[] Dirty skills

Because they appear to be the skills that'd most strongly reward planning ahead and building advantages over multiple turns. They also sound like they'd present the greatest freedom for creative thinking, particularly dirty skills and technique. From this perspective, we probably want a build like this:

[] Plan Vulcan Nerve Pinch
-[] Technique
-[] Charisma
-[] Dirty skills

Basically, dirty skills massively expands the availability of *cough* lateral thinking, charisma forces us to think long-term and play to the audience which is always fun, and technique gives us the skill to execute whatever hare-brained scheme we come up with.

But I think that that'd turn out... kind of boring, even if the discussion on the fights would be good. Especially because it sounds like there'll be a social component to this quest? Again, not familiar with the details of the setting - how much of this happens outside the ring? Hrm.
 
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Especially because it sounds like there'll be a social component to this quest? Again, not familiar with the details of the setting - how much of this happens outside the ring? Hrm.
A good amount of stuff happens out of the ring and there will be a social component to this quest ... but for the most part social stuff is optional, you can certainly find a dark corner of the building to hide in before and after your matches and just avoid everyone, but that's a little boring and might not be the best idea.
 
Okay, so! Time for me to campaign for my particular character build.
I should note, I'm campaigning both for the "build" (aka the initial Skill selection), and for the name and background and general "idea".

William Ryder's concept is that of a man who draws people to him like moths to the flame, despite initially presenting as a weird, and possibly terrifying, sort of pseudo-cult-leader type. I'm still ruminating on the particular window dressings, I don't want to copy Bray Wyatt too directly, but this is the direction I want to go.

Charisma is far and away the most key skill for this, and I'd really really like to make sure it's one of our first three skills. We're coming in as a complete Stranger; no one in this crowd knows us. And while, yes, this is a Kayfabe Quest where everything is real, and so if we fight hard enough we'll win (because it's not pre-determined, and so we're not told pre-match who wins), getting the crowds to love us is a big deal. If we have Charisma from the start, we can have the crowd eating out of our hand even if we're basically a Backwoods Doom Prophet. Per @King Arthur , Charisma is about Momentum, and I'd wager that's going to be true in the ring and out of it.

To me, Technique represents a foundational skill that's about how you tie everything together, as well as likely the skill that covers doing "slam" moves (like Dirty Deeds, or Sister Abigail, or the like). @King Arthur can correct me if I'm wrong, but I'm reading a combination of Technique and Charisma at the start as (likely) being a character with excellent Ring Psychology. If we have great Ring Psych from the start, we're going to do a lot better at getting over with the crowd.

Being a big, powerful, flashy character gets us over for our first few matches, especially if we win early and win often. But Charisma and Technique (if I am in any way on-the-money about how all the Skills interact) will get us over even if we lose, and they're what will keep us over with the crowds.

My 3rd skill is one I'm willing to negotiate about, though I'd note that several other posters want it, is Durability. To me, the ability to "laugh off" at least a few hits or moves, especially in the initial parts of our first match, will add to our mystique. This is something we then capitalize on with our Charisma (work the crowd a bit, do some in-ring emoting, etc.), and that we can use to turn the tables when our opponent thinks we're laid out (aka use Technique to shift the advantage in our favor).

I'd be willing to negotiate and change Durability to something else, maybe Power, Striking, Submission, or Dirty Skills, but I want to at least try and campaign for my build as-is.

I think playing an unknown character (a Stranger) with an eerie, otherworldly theme, who can work the crowds, keep match momentum going and tie all his moves together, and who can stand up to more punishment than one would think, is a great combination. I propose that the Charisma, Technique, and Durability foundation will let us build up the character in virtually any other skill area later on. If we can get the crowds behind us early on, even if it's to get an arena of 15,000 people simultaneously booing when we walk in (MAXIMUM HEEL HEAT), we're gonna go far. Remember, we can make people love us, love to hate us, love to fear us, etc., but either way the point is that we evoke some kind of strong response when we show up.

I think that playing an eerie supernatural-tied character can appeal to those of you/us who want a more-than-mundane wrestler, and the foundation I've proposed will let us have the more varied, exciting, and nuanced skillset others among us are seeking. I do understand that "possibly-bad-guy who everyone loves to hate" isn't everyone's cup of tea, but I'll also say my goal is to have a character who presents as at least sort-of-villainous....who the crowd still cheers for every time.

To use the example of Bray Wyatt, here's a man who constantly talks as if he's one of the major players from the Book Of Revelation, who may or may not be demon-possessed in-story, who constantly calls himself "The Eater Of Worlds", has referred to himself as one of the Four Horsemen, claimed to have consumed the Power and Soul of both the Undertaker and Kane, and just generally ought to be the biggest heel/villain character, and get the same reaction, among the roster.
Instead, the instant his music plays, crowds of tens of thousands go wild and light up their cell phones, giving him an entrance to his Fireflies that's replicated across the world. People love this guy. When he won the belt, people were chanting "YOU DESERVE THIS" all throughout the arena.

That, my friends, is my goal.

Now, with that all said, I'm definitely open to discussing my various choices, and how all of us can come to something of a consensus on name, skills, etc.

@EvaUnit01 , @LostDeviljho , @Vesvius , @Kaizuki , @Vebyast
 
I do understand that "possibly-bad-guy who everyone loves to hate" isn't everyone's cup of tea
I didn't vote to be Literally Mordred because I wanted to be a nice guy y'know. :p

I'm personally attached to the idea of taking this opportunity to, through the literalness of the kayfabe, be an actual character out of myth, returned once more to stake our name in a new arena.
I'd have gone with King Arthur because of the whole "prophesied to return" element, but our dear QM has already taken that one. :V
 
Okay, so the character I have in mind that I'm trying to build is - as suggested by my Plan Name - a vigilante-type of character, basically a one-man version of The Shield.

Come out to the ring, and unrepentantly beat the utter hell out of heels.

Up to and including interrupting them while they're talking.

I mean, come on! Those of you who watch wrestling, haven't you ever been trapped in a heel promo by some obnoxiously self-righteous narcissistic hypocrite (Stephanie McMahon and Charlotte Flair being the most ready examples that come to my mind, personally) and just desperately wished for someone -- ANYONE! -- to just come out and punch them in the mouth on your behalf?

This, my friends, is an opportunity for us TO BE THAT GUY.

Or, to put another way, the intent behind my plan is to basically become a pro wrestling version of Batman or The Punisher.

.........although since skills can apparently be trained up, I'm willing to swap out [Striking] for [Technique] or [Agility] if that'll bring in a consolidation.
 
To me, Technique represents a foundational skill that's about how you tie everything together, as well as likely the skill that covers doing "slam" moves (like Dirty Deeds, or Sister Abigail, or the like).
Ah, this is my bad for not explaining things properly, I apologize.

You are sort of right and sort of wrong. Technique is indeed a foundational skill that ties everything togther, most moves touch on technqiue at least a little bit and it makes pretty much everything go more smoothly. It's just that pure "slame moves" would fall more into the Power section.

Power is not just your physical strength, it's also your ability to lift your opponent up and slam them back down ... mostly because for the most part these are fairly simple moves. Suplexes, Fisherman carry's, Powerbombs, Sidewalk Slam ... these are almost 100% power. That's not to say technique doesn't impact these moves, it does, and some power moves require some pretty strong levels of technique such as Whale Hunt, Brainbuster, or even taking a a page out of Eddie Guerrero or Chris Benoit's book and going for some triple Suplexes. For the most part though, for basic slam moves Power is the main thing.

A pure technique move is one that takes your opponent without falling heavily into one of the other major categories. A nice DDT, Neckbreaker, RKO, STFO, school boy pin, something along those lines, pretty much anyone can do these moves on anyone if they are just skilled enough. For some reason I have trouble thinking of technical moves that doesn't involve slamming someones head into the ground, but that's a different problem.

Tehnique definetly comes into play with Power moves, it really does make pretty much everything better, it makes everything smoother and crisper and more likely to work, but some moves really on it more then others and the most basic Power moves can be done with out it.
 
Ah, this is my bad for not explaining things properly, I apologize.

You are sort of right and sort of wrong. Technique is indeed a foundational skill that ties everything togther, most moves touch on technqiue at least a little bit and it makes pretty much everything go more smoothly. It's just that pure "slame moves" would fall more into the Power section.

Power is not just your physical strength, it's also your ability to lift your opponent up and slam them back down ... mostly because for the most part these are fairly simple moves. Suplexes, Fisherman carry's, Powerbombs, Sidewalk Slam ... these are almost 100% power. That's not to say technique doesn't impact these moves, it does, and some power moves require some pretty strong levels of technique such as Whale Hunt, Brainbuster, or even taking a a page out of Eddie Guerrero or Chris Benoit's book and going for some triple Suplexes. For the most part though, for basic slam moves Power is the main thing.

A pure technique move is one that takes your opponent without falling heavily into one of the other major categories. A nice DDT, Neckbreaker, RKO, STFO, school boy pin, something along those lines, pretty much anyone can do these moves on anyone if they are just skilled enough. For some reason I have trouble thinking of technical moves that doesn't involve slamming someones head into the ground, but that's a different problem.

Tehnique definetly comes into play with Power moves, it really does make pretty much everything better, it makes everything smoother and crisper and more likely to work, but some moves really on it more then others and the most basic Power moves can be done with out it.
Edited my plan vote to swap out Power for Technique, on the premise that power can still get trained up later.

....I might have asked this first, but what does Striking do/affect?
 
I didn't vote to be Literally Mordred because I wanted to be a nice guy y'know. :p

I'm personally attached to the idea of taking this opportunity to, through the literalness of the kayfabe, be an actual character out of myth, returned once more to stake our name in a new arena.
I'd have gone with King Arthur because of the whole "prophesied to return" element, but our dear QM has already taken that one. :V
And that has less than 0 appeal for me. I don't want to be Mordred (there's already a Quest for that), I want to be a Pro Wrestler.

I want to forge my own myth, not piggyback on someone else's.
I'm sorry, to both you and @Vesvius , but "playing a Fantasy Knight" has very very low appeal to me. I mean, I don't think @King Arthur will let us wear full armor and swing a real sword around in the ring, and if you take that stuff away it strips a lot of the visual appeal of such characters away. And Pro Wrestling is one of those things that's highly visual...

Ugh, no one in here seems willing to agree on even a basic premise....:(

@EvaUnit01 , if the deadlock continues, I might be willing to support Plan Vigilante...if you're willing to draw in elements from Sting as well as the Shield, Punisher, etc.
That said, I'm not switching off my plan just yet.
Though, really, I'd certainly be willing to vote for things that would have Ryder doing what you're describing, just that instead of being a Face, he'd be doing it because of REASONS and MYSTERY. I can see some definite possibility of synergy between our concepts. It's as much the "window dressing" parts as anything, and maybe the initial Skill choices, that make the difference.
I mean, at this point, the only differences are that I pick Charisma and you pick Striking. We both pick Technique and Durability.

As for "what is Striking", @King Arthur can confirm or deny but I'd read it as how good we are at punches, kicks, chops, and other direct blows to our opponent. Possibly extending to the use of weapons? It likely has a lot of overlap with Power.

...Really, a lot of the Skills have overlap.

Hm. Serious suggestion, @EvaUnit01 , would you be willing to combine our plans, make a Creepy Vigilante?
 
@EvaUnit01 , if the deadlock continues, I might be willing to support Plan Vigilante...if you're willing to draw in elements from Sting as well as the Shield, Punisher, etc.
I know exactly nothing at all about Sting, except that apparently he was WCW/TNA's equivalent to The Undertaker.

Personally, my preference is a bit less on "supernatural mystery" and a bit more towards "pulp/noir thriller". Just some dude who comes out of the crowd one night, cheap shots the ranting heel from behind, and says, "I'm going to change this place for the better. One broken body at a time." <mic drop>

Hm. Serious suggestion, @EvaUnit01 , would you be willing to combine our plans, make a Creepy Vigilante?
I might be willing to throw in some more "unhinged/creepy" mannerisms to the character, but I am really attached to the name (or at least, I want "Crash" in there somewhere), and I want to use all three skill slots for something combat-related....

So I guess the answer to your question is, "What do you have in mind?"
 
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Edited my plan vote to swap out Power for Technique, on the premise that power can still get trained up later.

....I might have asked this first, but what does Striking do/affect?
Hittign the opponent.

A nice Shining Wizard, a punch to the face, a lariat, a Superkick, Standing Dropkick, Baseball Slide,enzugiri, curb stomp, that sort of thing.

It's basically just a move that hurts the opponent without being a grapple or a high flying maneuver.

As for "what is Striking", @King Arthur can confirm or deny but I'd read it as how good we are at punches, kicks, chops, and other direct blows to our opponent. Possibly extending to the use of weapons?
This is correct.

I'm sorry, to both you and @Vesvius , but "playing a Fantasy Knight" has very very low appeal to me. I mean, I don't think @King Arthur will let us wear full armor and swing a real sword around in the ring, and if you take that stuff away it strips a lot of the visual appeal of such characters away. And Pro Wrestling is one of those things that's highly visual...
I'd probably be willing let you wear chainmail in the ring and that's about it. Anything else would have to be taken off before a match, and I'm definetly not letting you guy's use a live sword.
 
I know exactly nothing at all about Sting, except that apparently he was WCW/TNA's equivalent to The Undertaker.

Personally, my preference is a bit less on "supernatural mystery" and a bit more towards "pulp/noir thriller". Just some dude who comes out of the crowd one night, cheap shots the ranting heel from behind, and says, "I'm going to change this place for the better. One broken body at a time." <mic drop>


I might be willing to throw in some more "unhinged/creepy" mannerisms to the character, but I am really attached to the name (or at least, I want "Crash" in there somewhere), and I want to use all three skill slots for something combat-related....

So I guess the answer to your question is, "What do you have in mind?"
Getting a bit beyond my best knowledge, but my understanding is that Sting started out as a high-energy kind of guy, seems like he was a bit Hogan-esque or some such, but after a certain point he switched his facepaint to copy The Crow, and became, yeah, WCW's Undertaker (this is why a dream match that will now never happen in real life was Sting vs Undertaker).

But it sounds like we're still kind of not on the same page; I definitely want to bring in supernatural stuff. Creepy is the mannerisms, but I want there to be a definite connection to the supernatural.

Also, I think Charisma's also combat-related; not only does it relate to Momentum, but it's likely how you can play up moves that psych out your opponent. Wyatt's spider-walk thing is probably Charisma, or at least getting it to freak out the other guy is. His "sudden appearance" stuff probably works off of that, or at least, again, the degree that it messes with the other guy's head is.

My proposal would probably have us try to work on a compromise name, and then merge the "vigilante" and "supernatural" thing. "He's here to change things for the better....but he's the one who defines better" sort of stuff. "I'm going to tear down all these prideful sinners! And then bring in a new order!" Stuff like that. If that's not your cuppa/your goal, that's fair. I'm just trying to find something that'll make us both at least sort of happy.

I will say I'd be okay with your Vigilante idea as-is, I just am trying to angle in my ideas while there's a chance. I mean, how often will I get a chance for this, eh? :p
 
But it sounds like we're still kind of not on the same page; I definitely want to bring in supernatural stuff. Creepy is the mannerisms, but I want there to be a definite connection to the supernatural.
Yeah, I'd prefer to try and stay away from that if I can.

Less Bray Wyatt, more Dean Ambrose (or even Randy Orton) kind of thing.

My proposal would probably have us try to work on a compromise name, and then merge the "vigilante" and "supernatural" thing. "He's here to change things for the better....but he's the one who defines better" sort of stuff. "I'm going to tear down all these prideful sinners! And then bring in a new order!" Stuff like that. If that's not your cuppa/your goal, that's fair. I'm just trying to find something that'll make us both at least sort of happy.
Yeah, while I'm cool with the "I'll make things better..... by my definition." bit, I'm really not looking at any "messianic" kind of gimmick, evil or otherwise.

I will say I'd be okay with your Vigilante idea as-is, I just am trying to angle in my ideas while there's a chance. I mean, how often will I get a chance for this, eh? :p
That sounds reasonable.

Too bad I'm feeling pretty unreasonable right now. :p:D
 
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So, you guys are definetly approaching the deadline. It's about 1 and I said I'd probably call it around 2.

You probably have a fair bit longer then that, I won't call it till I feel like writing and at the moment I have other stuff to do, but you might want to try and wrap this up in the next few hours.
 
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