Remove ads

I Walk in Dreams -- An Esoteric Journey Quest

Reader mode
[] SEIZE THE FORBIDDEN FRUIT

Hm hm. Tricky. While I mostly expected this, I had assumed that the different Supernal Finale cards would represent different routes to achieving our Aspiration, rather than more orthogonal victories like this one. I'm honestly not sure whether I want to take the win or press on in hopes of something more fitting-feeling. The text says "depending on your point of view" and I'm feeling like I'm looking at one of those optical illusions where if you focus your eyes just right you see an image, and then a second later you shift that focus and it's gone.

Like...on the one hand, maybe this is narratively resonant with Ash's gender experience, and abandoning one way of existing in the world to find another, and Rowan, and all of that. But on the other hand, as is admitted, it feels...solipsistic? And actively in conflict with the way Ash has been working on getting close to other people again despite their difficulties in doing so. Ultimately I think I'd like this option a lot better if it offered to simply remedy the sundering of Ash's soul more directly, rather than incarnating their complement as a separate person.

Of course, on the third hand, we have extremely finite Willpower and may well not see another finale chance after this. Relatedly, I'm sorry for leading folks into burning our best shot on something which turns out this ambivalent (for me, at least). But...I think in the end I'm going to heed the Emperor's advice: "I do not counsel you to drink foulness for the sake of quenching thirst."

[X] Let this revelation flow through you, without really believing it or letting it affect your outlook: Gain this card as an Aura.
[X][ASCENT] Keep exploring.
 
[x] [ASCENT] Keep exploring.
[x] Let this revelation flow through you, without really believing it or letting it affect your outlook: Gain this card as an Aura.
 
I am...ambivalent. There's a sense in which this conclusion works, because Ash felt something was missing in their life and this revelation purports to make Ash complete. In that sense this conclusion probably fits pretty much any ascent and any dreamer, which makes sense I suppose - with only a few possible Supernal endings that's kind of how it has to work. But..
picklepikkl said:
It would be solipsistic after a fashion, to be sure: one soul united in fullness, rather than different souls reaching out to one another in their brokenness.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
Is Ash's story not about reaching out to others? About making and remaking connections? Was Ash's fatal flaw not that their were too concerned with themselves? That they were so desperate for independence that they ended up alone? I mean, the card does say that this time Ash would do it right, Ash would really truly reach enlightment and figure it all out, but...it feels a bit off.

On the other hand, who's to say that the alternative endings will be any better? It's kind of arrogant to assume that the revelation at the summit will be tailor made for us. What, did we expect a deep mystical revelation to tell us what we already believed? How's that for solipsism? And with so little Willpower left, there's a good chance that in our chase for a "perfect" ending we'll end up burning ourselves out, and wouldn't that be a tragic echo of Ash's origins.

The last card means that if we do keep Dreaming this could be a long night, long enough that it'll probably be our last. That does mean that we'll almost certainly get a chance to use the Trump aura we just got, but look: ten major Arcana remain in our Ascent Deck. Two are other Supernal endings, three are probably Perils which we can beat and which won't waste Willpower but will end the night and possibly leave us incapable of beating another Peril, five more could be anything, some of which could be Occult endings which may or may not be better than this but judging by the others we've seen all will require Willpower even if we do reject them. There's twenty five Minor Arcana, most of which we can pass on without spending Willpower but at least five of them (two Threes, three Eights) do require resources if we are set on not wasting Willpower, and we don't know about the Nines. Those are not great odds. Unless there's a Trump that does something really useful like give Willpower or greatly thin our deck or something of the sort and we're lucky enough to draw it in the next few hands, we're more likely than not to just burn ourselves out.

So I dunno. I'm going to take the coward's way out and approval vote both possiblities, which really isn't much different than not casting a vote. If we do take this ending then I hope that Ash's newfound "completeness" doesn't mean they forget about others. If we don't, then I hope we get really lucky.

[X] Finish your dreaming-quest in triumph: End the quest in Supernal Finale: Never Alone Again.

[X] Let this revelation flow through you, without really believing it or letting it affect your outlook: Gain this card as an Aura.
[X] [ASCENT] Keep exploring.
 
[x] [ASCENT] Keep exploring.
[x] Let this revelation flow through you, without really believing it or letting it affect your outlook: Gain this card as an Aura.
[x] Spend one Willpower, incorporating this revelation into yourself without acknowledging it as the supernal prize for which you have quested: Add this card to your Pneuma.

I've thought it over, and I don't want Ash to be perfectly fulfilled by themself. I'm not against keeping this as a thing that happens, as Ash gaining one more connection - albeit a very strange one. Hell, I like that idea in a lot of ways. But I don't think it can or should be the end.
 
quantum lurker said:
Isn't there an alternative: Waking Up and Abandoning The Ascent though, now that we've confirmed the Supernal Endings are unlikely to be fully to our taste?
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
Is there really much of a difference? I mean, I guess it's better to say "I don't think I can keep going, I'll stop" rather than getting to the point where you literally can't keep going, but either one doesn't sit well with me.
 
mathymancer said:
If we do take this ending then I hope that Ash's newfound "completeness" doesn't mean they forget about others.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
I will go ahead and say that the character development Ash has undergone and the choices you've voted for Ash to make in how they live their life will not be obviated by this or any other ending that has you returning to the waking world. Rather, the ending is an "in addition to": what sort of arcane revelation you have achieved on top of the personal ones. Even if Ash wakes up and has a supernaturally-ordained perfect supousu to team up with in matters mundane (living a life together as a couple) and magical (continuing to try to gain understanding of the dreaming-realm and write that book), they will still care about continuing to reconcile with friends from the past, maintaining relationships with the new ones, and so on.
 
Last edited:
[X] Let this revelation flow through you, without really believing it or letting it affect your outlook: Gain this card as an Aura.
[X][ASCENT] Keep exploring.
 
For reference: @picklepikkl is there a meaningful distinction between running out of Willpower and simply voluntarily abandoning the Ascent before we reach that point?
 
Wiadi said:
For reference: @picklepikkl is there a meaningful distinction between running out of Willpower and simply voluntarily abandoning the Ascent before we reach that point?
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
Mechanically? Not really, it's a Wearied Finale either way. Narratively? The former will have more emphasis on striving and your continuing desire for the arcane, where the latter reflects taking a more active step away from wise-dreaming. But I'll be watching the thread discussion and modulating the narration accordingly based on the thing people are trying to do.
 
@🥒, are the three Supernal Finales predetermined, or is this result modified or unique to Ash?
 
[X] Finish your dreaming-quest in triumph: End the quest in Supernal Finale: Never Alone Again.

Ash has been lonely for a long time and this ending doesn't prevent them from writing their book. In fact, having another perspective on the Dream that perfectly complements their own might be the best way for them to make a clear and helpful guide.
 
Hm...
To catpost, this gives Hana two humans to cater to her needs and supervise when doing things in her wheelhouse like napping.
From a human perspective, this is... not exactly the direction I would have preferred (I think Judgement would have gone better with my personal image of "where-Ash-is-going"), but I think this qualifies as a Happy Ending for Ash, so I'll go for it.

[X] Finish your dreaming-quest in triumph: End the quest in Supernal Finale: Never Alone Again.
 
Derpmind said:
@🥒, are the three Supernal Finales predetermined, or is this result modified or unique to Ash?
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
The Supernal Finales are fixed, just like all the other cards in the game. Each one is some sort of supernal insight that dramatically changes you and/or how you go through life. The Lovers, in this case, is the insight that the human condition involves a sort of self-sundering and the ability to change that and, as I put it to mathymancer earlier, create a perfect supousu to team up with for matters mundane and magical. The others are other insights, but you should expect them to be similarly impactful in scope.

Now, the thing that changes the valence of the finales from one dreamer to another is, of course, Ash. Different dreamers will have a different context than Ash would. One person's Lovers finale is not the same as another's. Like the other cards, I will be using the supplied text in the game version of I Walk In Dreams as a basis, but with significant original additions and even outright changes when I think things work better for the quest I'm running.

So: What it is is predetermined. How it manifests is not. Have I adequately answered the question, or am I missing something?
 
mathymancer said:
Was Ash's fatal flaw not that their were too concerned with themselves? That they were so desperate for independence that they ended up alone? I mean, the card does say that this time Ash would do it right, Ash would really truly reach enlightment and figure it all out, but...it feels a bit off.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
Something that just occurred to me - one of Ash's traumas is their mother's insincerity and selfishness. This ending guarantees that they will have someone who loves them deeply and unconditionally, and whom they love just as deeply in turn, whatever form this love may take. Ash felt uncomfortable trusting the Mother, because they're in pain from not being able to trust their own mother. Maybe just having this mutual trust with someone (even someone who is, on the soul level, a part of their greater self) would be a rock which they can hold onto to feel more comfortable extending a hand to others?
 
[X] Finish your dreaming-quest in triumph: End the quest in Supernal Finale: Never Alone Again

Let it be said, that while this may not be the perfect end for Ash, I don't want the perfect to get in the way of the good. The odds are very stacked against us if we try to continue, and it's impossible to know if the other Supernal Finales would even fit Ash's narrative better than this one even if we could hit one.

But, a wearied finale would be so, so much worse. Ash having once again trod the same path to burnout they once did, only supernatural instead of corporate this time. Pushing, striving, always trying for something better and more perfect, ignoring the happiness which could be found in the present due to instead always being greedy for me.

Finally, just based on the name - Never Alone Again, I think that speaks to a deep desire of Ash's, that longing for connection with others that they squandered and let atrophy away. With this Finale, well they'll never be alone again, they'll always have someone else to lean on and help pull them forward, even when they want to instead withdraw and hide away from the world. Sometimes you need someone like that.
 
Judgement might have fit better, but we're running out of time and if we don't take this prize we may never get one. Besides, in the end the imperfections make it more perfect an end. Ash burnt themself out because they pushed themselves too hard, leaving everything and everyone else behind. This may not be exactly what Ash was looking for, but from up here the whole dreaming realm is at our feet. We needn't make the same mistake twice, so we'll take the money and run. Besides, our ambition was always going to outlive our ascent. Studying the ascent doesn't require climbing it. In fact if we just stayed where we're at then we'd have a decent chance of running into peers. The idea of Ash and their other half being a trump on someone else's ascent is kind of cool. A greater entity of the dreaming realm waking world.

[X] Finish your dreaming-quest in triumph: End the quest in Supernal Finale: Never Alone Again.

And now that the serious dramatic part of this is done. I'm honestly very amused thinking about people's reactions to finding out Ash's ascent has successfully concluded. Also I'm picturing ash laughing after hearing their other half's name, because they "thought It'd be a tree name".
 
Lightwhispers said:
From a human perspective, this is... not exactly the direction I would have preferred (I think Judgement would have gone better with my personal image of "where-Ash-is-going"), but I think this qualifies as a Happy Ending for Ash, so I'll go for it.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
Not to call you out specifically, and of course feel free to vote how you want, but I'd personally argue strongly against "settling" here. It's one thing if this outcome really strongly vibes with you, but...
TheOneUnknown said:
But, a wearied finale would be so, so much worse. Ash having once again trod the same path to burnout they once did, only supernatural instead of corporate this time. Pushing, striving, always trying for something better and more perfect, ignoring the happiness which could be found in the present due to instead always being greedy for me.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
I don't actually agree that a Wearied Finale would be so terrible, any more. I think failing to reach the summit at all would have been as you describe. I think reaching it and turning away is an altogether different beast.

Like...this is maybe a more Pentacles way of looking at it, but if Ash declines to stop here and instead continues searching, that doesn't feel to me like "burning themself out in pursuit of a goal," it feels more like "rejecting the paramount importance of an ultimate goal at all." They know they're running out of gas and that turning aside from this peak means they'll likely never reach another, but the experience of the dreaming realm has nevertheless been an enriching one, and the more they explore the more they'll be able to teach others later. Conversely, taking this ending purely because it's a form of victory feels like the very same ends-above-all mentality that was so toxic to them before.
 
Wiadi said:
Not to call you out specifically, and of course feel free to vote how you want, but I'd personally argue strongly against "settling" here. It's one thing if this outcome really strongly vibes with you, but...
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
It vibes strongly enough. The thing about "settling" is that it's accepting something that you're told (sometimes by yourself) is "good enough", but isn't. That's not the case here. Even if it's not the exact ending I was thinking of, it's satisfying.
Ash and partner will still be exploring the Dreaming and working on writing that book. And pampering Hana.
 
Wiadi said:
I don't actually agree that a Wearied Finale would be so terrible, any more. I think failing to reach the summit at all would have been as you describe. I think reaching it and turning away is an altogether different beast.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
Weirdly, I have the exact opposite sentiment - if we had never reached the summit, I would've been happy with a Wearied Finale. The deck is random, just like no one can know what life will throw at them. All we can ever do is try, and sometimes our best simply isn't good enough. If Ash tried, and it wasn't enough, then it wasn't enough but I could be happy knowing they tried their best.

Now, having reached the goal we were striving for, and considering continuing to search for something which is somehow more perfect/fitting, it would feel way worse to instead end in a Wearied Finale simply because we weren't content with what we did achieve. I'm not sure how to convey this, but it feels like, to continue my earlier corporate parallel either we could retire happy and fulfilled, with excellent retirement package right now, or we could continue pushing just a little bit harder for that promotion we know must be right around the corner.

And maybe that promotion will make us much happier, and able to retire with greater benefits and more peace of mind, but much more likely instead we'll burn up that will to continue and end up with nearly nothing instead, maybe a small severance package if that. I want to think that Ash has grown beyond always seeking more.

Maybe I'm just risk averse, but I've also learned through hard practice that you can't let a possible more perfect future distract from the happiness you can seize right now. It may not be perfect, but life almost never is, and sometimes you just have to know when it's enough. Enough to be happy with, enough to be satisfied, enough to live the rest of our life with.
 
Last edited:
Hm. To be clear, I'm not saying "we should reject this finale because I expect we'll get a better one," I'm saying "we should reject this finale because I'd rather keep exploring for the sake of it, in full knowledge that we'll probably not make it to another one at all."

Which I'll grant is probably in part because I've been increasingly cooling on the concept of this specific finale as I've thought about it more, to the point that I'd consider it actively worse than no finale at all, though that may be pessimism and/or personal philosophical gripes more than anything universalizable.
 
i agree with the above. we've seen the summit: lets take a picture and keep it moving

[X] Let this revelation flow through you, without really believing it or letting it affect your outlook: Gain this card as an Aura.
[X][ASCENT] Keep exploring.
 
[X] Spend one Willpower, incorporating this revelation into yourself without acknowledging it as the supernal prize for which you have quested: Add this card to your Pneuma.
[X][ASCENT] Keep exploring.
 
Reader mode
You must login or register to reply here.
Remove ads
Back
Top