Hyrule: Total War Apocalypse

[san]

ok everyone I have great news, goods news, bad news and terrible news. Which do you want first? Everything but the good news is connected.


EDIT: ok It has been an hour so I will start with the terrible.... if you don't begin creating a new troop type soon those actions will go away. Also you can only create a few more new troops types.

 

[Adventwolf]

Give it to us raw bad first like a band-aid.

Edit: right my post was a little late. So for next turn we need to cut out the plan to build more of our current forces. I say we use our actions to build new units one medium Cavalry used as a flanking and Chase down unit. The other is a infantry unit meant to assualt probably best as a medium unit as well can't weigh them down to much in a fight.

@Void Stalker

 

[san]

Give it to us raw bad first like a band-aid.

Edit: right my post was a little late. So for next turn we need to cut out the plan to build more of our current forces. I say we use our actions to build new units one medium Cavalry used as a flanking and Chase down unit. The other is a infantry unit meant to assualt probably best as a medium unit as well can't weigh them down to much in a fight.

@Void Stalker

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alright bad next.... and then the great news in an hour...

bad is that you are about to get a MASSIVE increase in upkeep... like in terms of thousands of rupees per turn increase.

 

[Adventwolf]

Well I can't think of what could cause that unless some sort of disaster caused a displacement of our people and damaged our infrastructure.

Edit: So while dealing with a 15 hour jet lag time shift I thought up a another reason. Some how our military has expanded drastically and now we have to pay for it. (It was Din.)

 

[Void Stalker]

@san do we have horsebows currently? Also would a horsearcher unit equipped with swords and shield be a medium or light cav unit?

Right now we have-
Archers (our ranged foot units, good for putting on walls)
Hoplites (defensive foot with spears and swords good for holding the line and dealing with light enemy units)
Legions (heavy defensive foot, these are our heavy hitters)
Cataphracts (heavy cav- shock cav intended to crush what ever they are directed at)

What I feel we are missing:
Horse Archers- equipped with bows for harassment and skirmishing and swords to run down broken enemies
Lancers- Medium charge cav unit, intended to hit lighter enemies again and again, faster moving then the Cataphracts, medium armor and barding, lances and axes or swords as a secondary weapon
Scout Cav- Light cav equipped with spear, sword maybe a few javelins, never intended to be raised in large numbers instead to act as the eyes of the army. On the battlefield would be for running down broken units or harassing medium/heavy infantry
Crossbow Foot- Medium infantry wearing some armor and using the crossbows we have invented (not sure if these would fall under archers or need to be separate)


And big increase in rupee income... that is concerning, is this an increase to the upkeep costs of existing buildings or something else?

 

[Adventwolf]

And big increase in rupee income... that is concerning, is this an increase to the upkeep costs of existing buildings or something else?

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I'm shooting in the dark here but I think Din is going to either somehow increase our numbers or boost our forces. Depending on if the horse archers are medium Cavalry I say go for that one next.

From how it was worded I think we have a limited number of unit type slots. If we don't use an action to think them up we will lose what ever we have left.

 

[Void Stalker]

I'm shooting in the dark here but I think Din is going to either somehow increase our numbers or boost our forces. Depending on if the horse archers are medium Cavalry I say go for that one next.

From how it was worded I think we have a limited number of unit type slots. If we don't use an action to think them up we will lose what ever we have left.

Click to shrink...

I am inclined to try for two new units this turn, preferably both as cav since that is both our nation specialty and on the open plains of Onderon a cav army should do quite while against our foes when we move to reclaim the province. I just need horse archers and medium lancers instead of the heavy (or maybe very heavy) cav we have now to pull it off.

The increase is concerning as we are already upping our upkeep by at least 200 a turn and most turns are not increasing rupee income, some turns are more like when the temples finish along with some other buildings. As it is we keep on running into rupees as a limiting factor and if we want to hit the soft cap of troops we are going to be tripling our military upkeep.

Actually more then that if we grab more cav units and continue to recruit mages, so to our soft cap we would increase mil upkeep about fourfold or about 3400 more in upkeep.

Edit- that 3400 is for just normal troops mages would be another 1,000 for 10 mages or so, so 4,400 increase in upkeep for troops and mages and our current net income is 5,100 (and that is increased due to high morale currently) so we have to do some rupee income expansions (and this turn is tight with the next temple to be started combined with wedding, expanding provincial control, more troops and other actions to be done). Turn 11 I was hoping to slot in two admin actions likely going to be trade and the rupee mine now.

 

[Adventwolf]

If we are going to calvary I say go with two this turn then we need some engineers or we won't be able to Siege any place. Lancers and horse archers are all good and I would say only one more as a scout and our calvary force should be well rounded.

We have a few options to increase rupees available to us. The food production is one gives more trade goods. The road system would help on multiple fronts. We have a few mines but I don't know if they are in our territory.

 

[Void Stalker]

If we are going to calvary I say go with two this turn then we need some engineers or we won't be able to Siege any place. Lancers and horse archers are all good and I would say only one more as a scout and our calvary force should be well rounded.

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Engineers are locked behind printing press and primary school (very expensive 3 turn option). We might be able to do printing press as our lone research action this turn, primary school has to be started on a turn we do not start a temple since the temples are 1,800 and the primary school is 2,000 and that is a large chunk of the existing budget before whatever the new upkeep comes to.

edit- and thinking on it increased upkeep costs could be for the twili setting up their new homes and all the construction that entails which would make sense as a temp upkeep increase taking a good chunk of resources

 

[Adventwolf]

Engineers are locked behind printing press and primary school (very expensive 3 turn option). We might be able to do printing press as our lone research action this turn, primary school has to be started on a turn we do not start a temple since the temples are 1,800 and the primary school is 2,000 and that is a large chunk of the existing budget before whatever the new upkeep comes to.

Click to shrink...

Right I forgot about that. Well we just got to be careful and look at this as a muli turn effort if we try to do to much we will simply screw ourselves.

We have a few options to increase rupees available to us. The food production is one gives more trade goods. The road system would help on multiple fronts. We have a few mines but I don't know if they are in our territory. Set up that trade route with the western kingdom. Make more villges and increase the size of the Capital and expand the province.

 

[san]

Well I can't think of what could cause that unless some sort of disaster caused a displacement of our people and damaged our infrastructure.

Edit: So while dealing with a 15 hour jet lag time shift I thought up a another reason. Some how our military has expanded drastically and now we have to pay for it. (It was Din.)

Click to shrink...

that brings me to the great news.... because DING DING DING we have a winner!

but not from what you think... you guys are forgetting the Twili are joining your kingdom... What happens to all the troops and mages they had? do you think they just disappear? FK NO they are joining your army providing you with many unique units and plenty of offensive mages. Also while you will have to take in a certain percentage of their army you do not have to take in all of it.

You are also getting all their leftover resources (Much of which is going into a mandatory action of finishing the Twili town.)

@san do we have horsebows currently? Also would a horsearcher unit equipped with swords and shield be a medium or light cav unit?

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Yes horsebows exist and the unit you described could be medium or light depending on what armor they are using as well as shield size. I would recommend going light though, it involves a smaller shield and weaker armor but allows for easier maneuverability and better shooting.




Finally the good news is that I have finished about half? I think its roughly half anyway... of the temple scene so update is about 3/4 of the way done and if I keep up the pace will likely be out tomorrow or MAYBE tonight.

 

[Void Stalker]

Right I forgot about that. Well we just got to be careful and look at this as a muli turn effort if we try to do to much we will simply screw ourselves.

We have a few options to increase rupees available to us. The food production is one gives more trade goods. The road system would help on multiple fronts. We have a few mines but I don't know if they are in our territory. Set up that trade route with the western kingdom. Make more villges and increase the size of the Capital and expand the province.

Click to shrink...

We do have some options, tentative plans are expand our province turn 10, turn 11 trade with western kingdom and rupee mines (was food production but if we are even more rupee strapped then switching to this). It does look like some major investment into the admin options moving forward and making sure we have the funds to build the temples (one starting turn 10 and the last starting turn 13).

Roads I would like to squeeze in though it will take a while potentially for those to take effect with the 2 to 8 turn range. Capital expansion I want to increase our food production first and building more villages takes population that we can use to expand our control of provinces, so lets expand into all of Faron first then see if we still have pop to spare for that option

 

[Adventwolf]

Pretty good overall this is going to be a long haul to improve our status. So long as we budget right we should be able to deal with this.

 

[Void Stalker]

that brings me to the great news.... because DING DING DING we have a winner!

but not from what you think... you guys are forgetting the Twili are joining your kingdom... What happens to all the troops and mages they had? do you think they just disappear? FK NO they are joining your army providing you with many unique units and plenty of offensive mages. Also while you will have to take in a certain percentage of their army you do not have to take in all of it.

You are also getting all their leftover resources (Much of which is going into a mandatory action of finishing the Twili town.)

Yes horsebows exist and the unit you described could be medium or light depending on what armor they are using as well as shield size. I would recommend going light though, it involves a smaller shield and weaker armor but allows for easier maneuverability and better shooting.




Finally the good news is that I have finished about half? I think its roughly half anyway... of the temple scene so update is about 3/4 of the way done and if I keep up the pace will likely be out tomorrow or MAYBE tonight.

Click to shrink...

Do the twili also increase our tax income, or will that come with the finishing their town action?

Also are you familiar with Medieval 1 or 2 Total War? If so the Siphai/Mongol Heavy Horse Archers would be more of my goal, horses and riders with some armor, a good bow and a sword for melee or enemy cav. Also do we have the cantarian circle or parthian shot for cav tactics or would we need to develop those?

How many unit slots do we have left and is it possible to acquire more? Mainly as I want light horse archers and medium horse archers if possible, medium is better for use with the general army, while light offers some scouting and harassment possibilities.

 

[Kalrotix]

It make methink that in the future we could make twili battlemage on horse !

 

[Void Stalker]

It make methink that in the future we could make twili battlemage on horse !

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Horse mages would be a very useful addition since long term I want a good chunk of cavalry troops. Having mages that go with them (twili and priests) would be a huge increase to their striking power and would be very useful when we go to reclaim Onderon Province.

Not to mention healers and those with defensive magic to keep our forces intact and mobile.

 

[Kalrotix]

Horse mages would be a very useful addition since long term I want a good chunk of cavalry troops. Having mages that go with them (twili and priests) would be a huge increase to their striking power and would be very useful when we go to reclaim Onderon Province.

Not to mention healers and those with defensive magic to keep our forces intact and mobile.

Click to shrink...

The mongols will look like so little players compare to us

 

[Void Stalker]

The mongols will look like so little players compare to us

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Well if you are familiar with the L5R setting then the Unicorn Clan would be something to take inspiration from. They have a group of mages that specialize in mobility magic allowing them to move their already mobile armies even further and the Unicorn are heavily inspired by the mongols as a mainly cav based army.

 

[san]

Do the twili also increase our tax income, or will that come with the finishing their town action?

Also are you familiar with Medieval 1 or 2 Total War? If so the Siphai/Mongol Heavy Horse Archers would be more of my goal, horses and riders with some armor, a good bow and a sword for melee or enemy cav. Also do we have the cantarian circle or parthian shot for cav tactics or would we need to develop those?

How many unit slots do we have left and is it possible to acquire more? Mainly as I want light horse archers and medium horse archers if possible, medium is better for use with the general army, while light offers some scouting and harassment possibilities.

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ok first that kind of horse archer NEVER existed IRL and will NEVER exist here. IF you want a heavy ranged cavalry you will need guns or you need to use javelins. Medium however is possible but they will be VERY weak at ranged, as not only do they have to compensate for horse movement but also the drag of the extra armor. Hence why I would recommend light cavalry if you are aiming for ranged cavalry, they shoot the best and work fairly well for just about everything you could want horse archers to do.

Now this is not to say heavy Mongolian cavalry did not exist, but they were uncommon and almost never used bows being shock cavalry instead.


how many unit slots left depends on how many Twili troops you accept, with them considered you have 1-3 slots remaining. As for getting new slots, you get those after you build more training grounds (limited to 1 per province) or upgrade the training grounds you have, PLUS you need a higher max army size. you are limited to roughly 1 unique troop types per every 5000 troops up to the soft maximum with the current training grounds plus a baseline of an additional 3.


Finally scout cavalry would be under scouting units but you can't make them yet because you need to add the animal breeding option to unlock the action required to make them available. Basically all the horse you have are draft horses or war horses. You have few smaller breeds which heavily limits you in terms of light cavalry and scouting types. You would need to take action to breed up the smaller horse population as well as possibly buy more from another nation.

Well if you are familiar with the L5R setting then the Unicorn Clan would be something to take inspiration from. They have a group of mages that specialize in mobility magic allowing them to move their already mobile armies even further and the Unicorn are heavily inspired by the mongols as a mainly cav based army.

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mounted mages are impossible for you atm. it requires technologies that you simply lack currently.

 

[Void Stalker]

ok first that kind of horse archer NEVER existed IRL and will NEVER exist here. IF you want a heavy ranged cavalry you will need guns or you need to use javelins. Medium however is possible but they will be VERY weak at ranged, as not only do they have to compensate for horse movement but also the drag of the extra armor. Hence why I would recommend light cavalry if you are aiming for ranged cavalry, they shoot the best and work fairly well for just about everything you could want horse archers to do.

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Actually historically armored horse archers appeared as early as the Assyrians and continued into medieval times with some examples being the Siphai and Druzihna. The wiki article on the Siphai has some examples with the elite units having bows and chain or platemail. They would likely classify as medium cav (in part due to light or no barding for the horse) but were still very good ranged units. Though the heavy units did less skirmishing as a rule instead launching volleys before charging in. But they did prove useful in countering light horse archers able to keep the pace for a time while being able to take more arrow fire before casualties started mounting in comparison to the light horse archers. Samurai would be another example of horse archers in armor as well.

 

[san]

Actually historically armored horse archers appeared as early as the Assyrians and continued into medieval times with some examples being the Siphai and Druzihna. The wiki article on the Siphai has some examples with the elite units having bows and chain or platemail. They would likely classify as medium cav (in part due to light or no barding for the horse) but were still very good ranged units. Though the heavy units did less skirmishing as a rule instead launching volleys before charging in. But they did prove useful in countering light horse archers able to keep the pace for a time while being able to take more arrow fire before casualties started mounting in comparison to the light horse archers. Samurai would be another example of horse archers in armor as well.

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yep still medium cav though, plus heavy cav archers would be FAR less accurate so they would do little damage with those volleys as far as I am concerned. Sorry but thats how I will be considering this, even if you do arm them with bows, they will be near worthless with them.

 

[Void Stalker]

yep still medium cav though, plus heavy cav archers would be FAR less accurate so they would do little damage with those volleys as far as I am concerned. Sorry but thats how I will be considering this, even if you do arm them with bows, they will be near worthless with them.

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Um, so we are fine for horse archers as long we stick to the Medium Cav option with appropriate armor levels and avoid the Heavy Cav (Cataphract level) option for ranged weapons?

 

[san]

Um, so we are fine for horse archers as long we stick to the Medium Cav option with appropriate armor levels and avoid the Heavy Cav (Cataphract level) option for ranged weapons?

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yep. It is simply too cumbersome. I will allow them to use bows, but they would take heavy penalties during ranged attacks.

 

[Void Stalker]

yep. It is simply too cumbersome. I will allow them to use bows, but they would take heavy penalties during ranged attacks.

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Okay, there was some confusion on my part since what would classify as Medium Cavalry is historically referred to as Heavy Horse Archer (mainly since they had some armor and most horse archers had none).

I was looking for pictures to show what I meant and I think this is a good one: Siphai
The siphai is in the back of the three and is wearing a chain shirt while the leg armor is likely along the lines of padded. The horse as well is covered by padded (as opposed to chain or plate) armor and is what I think of as a medium unit.

For heavy cav I picture stuff like this: Turkish Melee Cav
which using ranged weapons would be interesting at best.

A big difference is the lack of chain or plate leg armor for the archer, and also only metal wristguards on the forearms of the archer versus wristguards and chain sleeves and gloves for the melee one.


Edit-
And an example of light cavalry: Horse Archer

 

[san]

Okay, there was some confusion on my part since what would classify as Medium Cavalry is historically referred to as Heavy Horse Archer (mainly since they had some armor and most horse archers had none).

I was looking for pictures to show what I meant and I think this is a good one: Siphai
The siphai is in the back of the three and is wearing a chain shirt while the leg armor is likely along the lines of padded. The horse as well is covered by padded (as opposed to chain or plate) armor and is what I think of as a medium unit.

For heavy cav I picture stuff like this: Turkish Melee Cav
which using ranged weapons would be interesting at best.

A big difference is the lack of chain or plate leg armor for the archer, and also only metal wristguards on the forearms of the archer versus wristguards and chain sleeves and gloves for the melee one.


Edit-
And an example of light cavalry: Horse Archer

Click to shrink...

pretty damn good examples of it all the armor classes all things considered. However a medium cavalry would have SLIGHTLY less armor than the first pic. mostly in terms of the face and neck chainmail. That would not come down past his shoulders and would more likely be just overlaying half of his shoulders. Also would cover slightly less of their face to allow for better range of vision and all that. Also they would still have a slight penalty on ranged attacks and would certainly be a fair bit slower when it comes to getting around. (the ranged penalty because they would have a slower rate of fire)