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How to Train Your Dragon 2

Xicree said:
Actually it seems to me more that ANY species can become an Alpha... but needs the right conditions in order to do so. Bewilderbeasts and other leviathan class dragons have the easiest time of doing it... but other breeds can become alpha also because it's not just the control aspect which is important... its an over all social aspect.
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Yeah. It's explicitly noted in supplemental materials that Bewilderbeasts are not always alphas. They have to earn the title like any other dragon. It's just that they and Red Deaths have a very easy time at it due to size and the control ability.

Which makes me curious; as an alpha, does Toothless now protect Berk's dragons from that control because mentally he is the alpha? So, even if he can't project that call he still provides psychological defense against being lured away? If not, Berk's dragons are really going to be dependent on their riders for protection the same way Hiccup protected Toothless during the fight.
 
Xicree said:
Actually it seems to me more that ANY species can become an Alpha... but needs the right conditions in order to do so. Bewilderbeasts and other leviathan class dragons have the easiest time of doing it... but other breeds can become alpha also because it's not just the control aspect which is important... its an over all social aspect.
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Luke Danger said:
Yeah. It's explicitly noted in supplemental materials that Bewilderbeasts are not always alphas. They have to earn the title like any other dragon. It's just that they and Red Deaths have a very easy time at it due to size and the control ability.

Which makes me curious; as an alpha, does Toothless now protect Berk's dragons from that control because mentally he is the alpha? So, even if he can't project that call he still provides psychological defense against being lured away? If not, Berk's dragons are really going to be dependent on their riders for protection the same way Hiccup protected Toothless during the fight.
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I think we're having a language problem. There are Alphas, that guard and protect their flights. There are Bewildibeasts and Deaths that have the mindcontrol powers--but then the question is, do Bewildibeasts have the power naturally, or only when they become Alphas?

I Literally think Nightfuries can become Bewildibeasts.
 
Yeah, I don't buy that. The different between a Night Fury and a Bewilderbeast is huge.

Plus, I think it kind of goes against some of HTTYD's charm: Yes, Toothless is a powerful dragon... because he fights smart, not by more raw power like the Red Death or Bewilderbeast has.

Believe it if you want, but I really just dislike the idea purely on the fact that it takes away a big part of what makes HTTYD enjoyable to me.
 
Luke Danger said:
Plus, I think it kind of goes against some of HTTYD's charm: Yes, Toothless is a powerful dragon... because he fights smart, not by more raw power like the Red Death or Bewilderbeast has.
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Only if you don't count the plasma balls, manuverability that would put an F-22 to shame, and enough speed to make the Roadrunner stop and go 'WOAH, what the hell was that?'
 
Richardson said:
Only if you don't count the plasma balls, manuverability that would put an F-22 to shame, and enough speed to make the Roadrunner stop and go 'WOAH, what the hell was that?'
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No one is arguing Toothless doesn't have a lot of ability, but he also doesn't have nearly the sheer physical power that the bewilderbeasts have. His breath weapon is also not nearly has devastating as a bewilderbeasts. Night Furies are fast, maneuverable and pack a lot more punch than their size indicates, but even fully buffed Toothless was only able to annoy Drago's bewilderbeast.
 
Crazael said:
No one is arguing Toothless doesn't have a lot of ability, but he also doesn't have nearly the sheer physical power that the bewilderbeasts have. His breath weapon is also not nearly has devastating as a bewilderbeasts. Night Furies are fast, maneuverable and pack a lot more punch than their size indicates, but even fully buffed Toothless was only able to annoy Drago's bewilderbeast.
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Well, Toothless' plasma blasts can knock a massive dragon on its ass and broke that Bewilderbeast's tusk, but that also probably eats up a lot of his shot limit, which is extremely erratic (Hiccup says its a six-shot limit in the TV series yet even then Toothless regularly unleashes far more, albeit lower powered, shots).

So not sure what to rule. On one hand, Toothless has a scary amount of firepower. On the other, he also can be quite non-lethal when he wants to be or when trying not to vaporize people (IE, he fires low powered shots during the TV series that shields are sufficiently capable of blocking, yet he also fires shots powerful enough that it acts like a bunker buster and forces a Whispering Death to surface from its tunnels)

But compared to Bewilderbeasts, yeah, Toothless is a scalpel rather than a sledgehammer.
 
Luke Danger said:
Yeah, I don't buy that. The different between a Night Fury and a Bewilderbeast is huge.

Plus, I think it kind of goes against some of HTTYD's charm: Yes, Toothless is a powerful dragon... because he fights smart, not by more raw power like the Red Death or Bewilderbeast has.

Believe it if you want, but I really just dislike the idea purely on the fact that it takes away a big part of what makes HTTYD enjoyable to me.
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Yeah, except I'm basing it on book canon, you realize?

Toothless in the book is actually the exact same breed as the Green/Red Death. They start small, get huge, and then get small again.

The fact that Toothless, in my mind, can become a Bewilderbeast doesn't MAKE him a Bewilderbeast, yet. And if you read the thread you would see i was rolling it around as part of an idea of all dragons, or at least most, being the same species, just weirdly specialized, and going through metamorphosis.

I mean what you're saying is that a story about a strong kid defending some kids from adults looses it's charm because the strong kid is going to grow up to be a body builder.
 
Crazael said:
No one is arguing Toothless doesn't have a lot of ability, but he also doesn't have nearly the sheer physical power that the bewilderbeasts have. His breath weapon is also not nearly has devastating as a bewilderbeasts. Night Furies are fast, maneuverable and pack a lot more punch than their size indicates, but even fully buffed Toothless was only able to annoy Drago's bewilderbeast.
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This really depends on where Toothless is on the development cycle. Is he an adolescent Nightfury or is he an ancient one that's reverted to a smaller size? If he's an ancient Nightfury, then I agree with you. If he's an adolescent, then I think he's a baby kaiju.
 
It doesn't sit right with me that Toothless would grow up to be something the size of a Bewilderbeast or Colored Death. Unless the general body plan of Night Furies changed drastically as they reached maturity, something that size would still be recognized as a Night Fury, no matter how big they are. Also, Night Furies are supposed to be stealthy, maneuverable, and punch far higher than their size would suggest, and being as big as a Bewilderbeast would negate two of three of those. You can't be maneuverable or stealthy with a body that big.

On the shot count thing, I counted how many shots Toothless made during the fight against the Red Death, and it totaled to 23 or 24. So we know that he has that many shots at that power.
 
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shadowfleck said:
It doesn't sir right with me that Toothless would grow up to be something the size of a Bewilderbeast or Colored Death. Unless the general body plan of Night Furies changed drastically as they reached maturity, something that size would still be recognized as a Night Fury, no matter how big they are. Also, Night Furies are supposed to be stealthy, maneuverable, and punch far higher than their size would suggest, and being as big as a Bewilderbeast would negate two of three of those. You can't be maneuverable or stealthy with a body that big.

On the shot count thing, I counted how many shots Toothless made during the fight against the Red Death, and it totaled to 23 or 24. So we know that he has that many shots at that power.
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whaat is wrong withmy reply box..?

Anyways. I heard that te bewilderbeast's head was supposed to look a bit like Toothless's from the bottom.
And I'm thinking metamorphasis for the change, skin sheding, mutating, growth spurt that not all nighfuries go through. And some other dragons go through too, given the right cicumstances. Not a normal maturity thing, but more like lone Aliens drones hormone storming into Queens
All the baby dragons looked alike in the movie,, maybe they had yet to do a first metamorphasus and differentiate?
 
ghost792 said:
This really depends on where Toothless is on the development cycle. Is he an adolescent Nightfury or is he an ancient one that's reverted to a smaller size? If he's an ancient Nightfury, then I agree with you. If he's an adolescent, then I think he's a baby kaiju.
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I just had a wonderful mental image of Hiccup taming and befriending Otachi.
 
Sunder the Gold said:
Because he's Hellboy.

Or maybe because the baby wasn't as toxic. The point of it being born on Earth was to adapt it to Earth's environment, I think. Though that might be a fanfic I'm remembering.
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In the book the Kaiju can reproduce because the Kaiju Masters are basically experimenting with designs, the plan being that when they hit upon a design that works really well they'll send two of that model through as basically a fire-and-forget weapon.

Hiccup just needs to to teach Otachi not to lick.

Marginally more on topic, is there a release date for the Blu-Ray?
 
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So, found an interesting article that's a rebuttal to the one that claimed that HTTYD 2 was anti-feminist.

http://www.dailydot.com/opinion/how-to-train-your-dragon-2-is-feminist/

I dunno, I agree with it. I mean, I like female characters who aren't afraid to brawl, but at the same time expecting all female characters to have to be badass take-no-shit ice-bitches who disown the idea of any 'feminine' traits is just as sexist as telling her to stay in the kitchen*. Plus, as the writer noted, they've got Astrid and Ruffnut for the asskicking department.

* Exception: Unless you need her to lay down covering fire from that position or if that's actually the safest place for a non-combatant to hide
 
Just got my copy from Amazon. Still great, music's still fantastic. Makes me curious where the next season of the TV show is going to go.

EDIT: @Luke Danger, I think it was you who was wondering if Drago had cannons. He does.
 
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