How to Train Your Dragon 2

SPOILER!!! You have been warned.
Welp. Saw the movie. Did you notice the escalations in the movies? In the first one we got Hiccup sacrificng his leg..and now his father was "sacrificed" as well. What the hell is going to happen in Movie III? Is he going to lose Toothless, Astrid or the entire damn village!?

Also. The first movie ended with the last words:
"This is Berk. It snows nine months of the year, and hails the other three. Any food that grows here is tough and tasteless. The people that grow here are even more so. The only upsides are the pets. While other places have ponies or parrots... we have... dragons."
The second movie ended with (what I remember):
"The others have fleets of ships and armies of soldiers..we have..dragons."

I repeat. WTF!? is going to be the end of the thirdmovie . I am scared. This is starting to look like the ancient era prequel for "A Song of Ice and Fire", showing us the early history of the Valkirians.
 
Saw it yesterday. I can't really agree with all the praise it's getting; it wasn't bad, but it was largely...adequate. The script had as many downright painful lines as it did clever ones, Drago was frankly kind of silly, and Hiccup and Stoick forgave Valka way too easily for fucking abandoning her family for twenty years. But on the other hand, the animation was quite beautiful, the movie stayed true to the themes of the original while condemning the kind of naive optimism that FRIENDSHIP TRIUMPHS OVER ALL can sometimes end up implying in family movies, and the animators figured out how to make epic battle sequences work within a PG rating, which is always an impressive feat (even if those sequences occasionally felt somewhat toothless as a result).

So, 6/10 (5 being actually-average). Definitely good, but it fell well short of great.
 
I can finally view this thread now that I've watched HTTYD 2. Spoilers ahead!

So I watched the movie yesterday, which was lots of fun. Here's my reaction:

One thing I noticed was that Astrid, Ruff/Tuff, Snotlout, etc. didn't have much of a role in the plot. Everything that they did just seems like a sideshow with no conclusion or even aim. Astrid even seemed like she got an intelligence downgrade, with her haring off to find and confront Drago. I get that she has a gung-ho attitude, but she always struck me as a more practical and down-to-earth person than Hiccup - and since it's been 5 years since the original, I felt that she should have had more of a grasp on that aspect of herself. Venturing into the lair of and then essentially giving away information that Berk was filled with dragons to Drago, who had an armada and was a verified and experienced dragon tamer/hunter was .... not a good idea. I expected better from her. I expected her to be intelligent, capable, and knowing that running unprepared to a leader whose forces are experience dragon capturers was not a very good idea.

Eret seemed to be thrown in to be the obligatory "not everyone is as horrible and dedicated as Drago" person in Drago's armada, but I liked his character arc. The romance gags were, in my opinion, unnecessary. And then there's the fact that Hiccup basically did everything while the rest of the cast stood by and yelled "Go Hiccup!" or was less than helpful in the case of Astrid and co.

The pacing was also off. There was enough information in HTTYD 2 that it could have been a 2 hour, maybe 2hr. 15 minute movie. Instead they pared it down to 1:45, and the pacing suffered as a result. The movie's plot sped up a lot from the relatively slow beginning and middle. We go from Stoick and Val's reunion straight to the battle, 10 minutes at most for Stoick's death and funeral, then rushing to Berk, Berk being destroyed, then Drago's alpha gets Macross Missile Massacred in the face. There were so many WHAM moments at the ending it took away from the individual impacts of all of them. Stoick's funeral and death in particular I felt should have been given more time. Hiccup had just lost his father, one of the constants in his life, a person that no matter what kind of disagreements they had, they still had their familial love. It's a major moment for Hiccup, dealing with the fact that his father died, his best friend was the one to do it, and his dragon-taming abilities were seemingly not all they cracked up to be. Seeing Hiccup just shrug it off and not display any other thought about Stoick's death for the rest of the movie left me wanting, especially since they took the time to do it in the original. If the scriptwriters had Hiccup's reaction to Stoick's death and dealing with his grief and working through the realization that even if his world was shattered, everyone else's was and he needed to be there to prop them up (maybe catalyzed with Val reminding about "an alpha/chief protects his own") in between Drago's assaults on the nest and Berk, it would have given the audience a breather from the action, time to process what the fuck just happened (mind control) and some emotional weight to the story. It's like Dreamworks didn't want to be sucked into GRIMDARKDERP ANGST that "darker" sequels often fall prey to that they just passed over it.

And the constant preaching about peace with dragons got on my nerves a bit. We all know that Hiccup wants peace and companionship, Dreamworks. Stop trying to shove it down our throats. It's like DW7 Shu with its BENEVOLENCE.

That's about all the complaints I have, actually. So onto the compliments.

I really liked how the movie made the HTTYD world darker, still had that spot of hope at the same time. Dragon trapping, Drago's entire "dragon slave army" thing, Stoick fucking dying. But it still had Hiccup and Toothless prevail with the power of their friendship, with the very nice caveat at the end of "The vikings of Berk are peaceful industrious folk, but if you fuck with us and our dragons, we will end you," which just goes to show that Hiccup and Toothless learned from their lesson and knows that while peace is all well and good, sometimes you have to carry a big, big stick.

The contrast between Drago and Hiccup was really nice as well. Drago represented the older generation, with hatred against dragons because of the loss of his arm and what was basically a scourge on the Vikings. He pounded and intimidated them into submission because, to him, they were animals that needed to be destroyed, and when faced with evidence to the contrary, he refused to readjust because he was that buried in his hatred. Hiccup, on the other hand, even though he lost his leg and his mom to dragons and his entire life was dedicated to earning recognition through killing dragons, has the capability and flexibility to forgive and build a new world. It's kind of like Gundam Unicorn - the old guard is not willing to forget the sins of the past, and was just stuck in the mindset of "Zeon/Feds are EEEVIIILLL," while the kids are willing to set aside those same sins and having the possibility of making the world a better and more peaceful place. Just replace "Zeon/Feds" with "Dragons/humans" and you're set.

Stoick's death was the big whammy for me. I was surprised that Dreamworks had the balls to do it, especially in the manner that Stoick died. I knew that at the end, to fulfill Hiccup's character arc in this movie he would have to realize that he has the potential/has to become the chief, but I expected that Stoick would act as a mentor. Worst case, he gets crippled and Hiccup has to take the reins. But becoming chief like that? Ouch. The only complaint that I have about that, again, is that the director should have paid more attention to it. It also reminds us just why dragons were feared, after pretty much a movie and a half of cuddly pet dragons. Mind-controlled Toothless bent on killing you was scary, in more than one way.

The scenery and visuals were great - the island archipelago in the first 20 minutes of the movie was absolutely breathtaking and reminded me a lot of some of the stuff in Kung Fu Panda. The flight scenes were miles better than in the original. Even though I was watching it in 2D (Age of Extinction took up the 3D theater :mad:), every single aerial scene was, simply put, amazing. I just wish I saw it in 3D, personally.

The worldbuilding was spectacular as well. All the new dragon species, the giant map that Hiccup and Toothless was making (how does Hiccup know how far the particular islands are from Berk? Does he have a scale? A sextant?), dragon society (alphas), and the way that Berk had adapted to life among dragons - the races, stables, a complex hangar-like system for doors, etc. It made the entire movie seem like it really was branching out into different and new places that the original one didn't explore.

Overall I thought this was a worthy sequel of the original. It kept the "fight smarter, not harder" and the "make peace, not war" theme of HTTYD, but hoo boy it got a lot darker than the original. Toothless was still the adorable ball of scaly awesome that he was in the original, and Hiccup and the others all grew up nicely. The movie was dark, but not in a GRIMDERP way. However, there were some things that were off about it, like the pacing and the occasional "it's a kids movie" thing, but overall it was a good movie. Not on the level of its predecessor or Toy Story 1/2/3, but I would definitely rewatch it.

9/10

Headcanon is being more and more cemented that Tony Stark is Hiccup's reincarnation.

Also, Toothless confirmed for the unholy cross between the Avatar and Godzilla. :p
 
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Honestly I always read Astrid throwing Hiccup's weight around as trying to make Drago think twice about just up and executing them, either to buy them time to escape or to figure out some way to stop him there.

I mean, especially if you watched the series, Hiccup has a fucking reputation outside Berk. I don't mean "Red Baron" with the title Dragon Conqueror (though he prefers 'Dragon Trainer'), I mean full on memetic badass. As in, the Outcasts expected him to be ten feet tall and with the strength of a dozen men. Even if that got dispelled, Hiccup probably has a very powerful reputation amongst other Viking groups. I mean, his best friend is the Unholy Offspring of Lightning and Death Itself and together they killed the Red Death when Stoick the Vast and Berk's entire populace couldn't. Astrid also may of been desperate and was trying to buy some time.

I do agree though, thinking back while there were no outright "That's stupid" facepalms to me, Astrid did come across a little weak. Probably a result of how much they were trying to juggle, so they had to keep it quick. Sort of like Valka trying to stop a guy from killing an actively fighting Monstrous Nightmare in the flashback - rather silly, but was intended to make the point quickly and effectively. Would of been nice if they showed a scene of the others trying to get to their dragons while Hiccup and Toothless were fighting Drago's Bewilderbeast, but I suppose that's the time thing.

Personally I took Hiccup moving on from Stoick's death as him putting it to the side to focus on what he has to do; and yeah, it probably was Valka's prodding that got him to internalize it for the moment and go kick Drago's [Ice Floe Interrupt!]. Doesn't have time to brood, he has to get his ass back to Berk and save it's people - humans and dragons alike. I do agree, it could of afforded to be longer.

And yeah, Tony Stark = Hiccup Reincarnated gets more and more accurate with each new bit of HTTYD :p

Though, a note on Toothless' little upgrade... the firepower he flung around, while he was flinging far more of it than he usually did, was actually not beyond what he had shown in the past. Rewatching the fight against the Red Death in the first movie, when Toothless hits the Red Death to get it to try and take off he hits it with enough power that not only did he knock it on its ass, essentially, there was a mushroom cloud from the impact. I still have no idea what the hell that upgrade was for Toothless, but it's not wholly out of context as I thought it was looking back.

Also, was Drago using cannons? It didn't look like he was using ballistas to me

On that 'power of friendship' note that got deranged by Shockz; I know I've stated it, but I like how it wasn't "Toothless outright ignores it because he's Hiccup's friend", it's "their friendship lets him use his already possessed resistance to shake it off, then Toothless trusts Hiccup enough to let the human blind him and deafen him, making him completely reliant on Hiccup to see or hear where he's going, and thus together they fight as one". It's not so much "friendship trumps all", it's more "friendship lets them do things normally considered crazy to get around dangerous things". Which again emphasizes the "Fight Smarter, not Harder" that HTTYD is good about. I do hope the next villain they have takes that lesson to heart, though...


Also; you remember how Stoick has that urban legend about punching a Dragon's head clean off as a baby back when he was introduced in HTTYD? Imagine what it'll be for Hiccup...

"Legend has it that when he was a baby, a Stormcutter was found playing with him. Do I believe it?"

[Hiccup calms down a rampaging Monstrous Nightmare so Gobber can get the bad tooth out]

"Yes I do."


Speaking of that; all the Viking chiefs in the series seem to pack epithets (Stoick the Vast, Oswald the Agreeable, Dagur the Deranged, Alvin the Treacherous), what's Hiccup's going to be? Serious question...
 
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Honestly I always read Astrid throwing Hiccup's weight around as trying to make Drago think twice about just up and executing them, either to buy them time to escape or to figure out some way to stop him there.

I mean, especially if you watched the series, Hiccup has a fucking reputation outside Berk. I don't mean "Red Baron" with the title Dragon Conqueror (though he prefers 'Dragon Trainer'), I mean full on memetic badass. As in, the Outcasts expected him to be ten feet tall and with the strength of a dozen men. Even if that got dispelled, Hiccup probably has a very powerful reputation amongst other Viking groups. I mean, his best friend is the Unholy Offspring of Lightning and Death Itself and together they killed the Red Death when Stoick the Vast and Berk's entire populace couldn't. Astrid also may of been desperate and was trying to buy some time.
I actually haven't watched the TV show, so I've missed out on all that. The sequel doesn't make the absence felt at all, actually; everything shown in the movie felt like a logical progression of things shown in the first movie and some extrapolations that are easily made.


I do agree though, thinking back while there were no outright "That's stupid" facepalms to me, Astrid did come across a little weak. Probably a result of how much they were trying to juggle, so they had to keep it quick. Sort of like Valka trying to stop a guy from killing an actively fighting Monstrous Nightmare in the flashback - rather silly, but was intended to make the point quickly and effectively. Would of been nice if they showed a scene of the others trying to get to their dragons while Hiccup and Toothless were fighting Drago's Bewilderbeast, but I suppose that's the time thing.
Though it wasn't like Hiccup's friends could do anything after Drago took their dragons. It just irks me that they were basically turned into cheerleaders. It is Hiccup's story of accepting his responsibilities and that flying away doesn't do anything, but I guess that the many anime/manga series that I've read got me very very tired of this:

Protagonist: I am powerful because of my friends!
Friends: *on the sidelines*

Like if the teens are portrayed as capable riders and fighters (and they should - it's been 5 years after all, and even I've heard about Alvin's shenanigans), show them that they are and not like they're unruly rebellious teenagers again. They're 20, they should know better than that!

Personally I took Hiccup moving on from Stoick's death as him putting it to the side to focus on what he has to do; and yeah, it probably was Valka's prodding that got him to internalize it for the moment and go kick Drago's [Ice Floe Interrupt!]. Doesn't have time to brood, he has to get his ass back to Berk and save it's people - humans and dragons alike. I do agree, it could of afforded to be longer.
Like I said, I agree with how Hiccup made his choice, but I just wish the directors showed more of how he got there instead of him deciding on it while his father's body burns behind him.

And yeah, Tony Stark = Hiccup Reincarnated gets more and more accurate with each new bit of HTTYD :p

Though, a note on Toothless' little upgrade... the firepower he flung around, while he was flinging far more of it than he usually did, was actually not beyond what he had shown in the past. Rewatching the fight against the Red Death in the first movie, when Toothless hits the Red Death to get it to try and take off he hits it with enough power that not only did he knock it on its ass, essentially, there was a mushroom cloud from the impact. I still have no idea what the hell that upgrade was for Toothless, but it's not wholly out of context as I thought it was looking back.
I envision it as a sort of turbocharge - Night Fury imbuing its fireball with energy to form a more powerful blast. I was just joking with my friends afterwards about Toothless being the Avatar after that little glowing iceberg thing, and the fact that he's glowing blue.

Also, was Drago using cannons? It didn't look like he was using ballistas to me
Seemed like it. I even caught a vaguely cone-shaped projectile before it impacted the ice nest; I suppose practice and battle-testing led Drago to conical cannon shells.

Then again, with the amount of dragon species out there and Drago's cruelty, I wouldn't put it past him to "milk" dragons of an explosive paste and then stick it behind a cannon shell.

On that 'power of friendship' note that got deranged by Shockz; I know I've stated it, but I like how it wasn't "Toothless outright ignores it because he's Hiccup's friend", it's "their friendship lets him use his already possessed resistance to shake it off, then Toothless trusts Hiccup enough to let the human blind him and deafen him, making him completely reliant on Hiccup to see or hear where he's going, and thus together they fight as one". It's not so much "friendship trumps all", it's more "friendship lets them do things normally considered crazy to get around dangerous things". Which again emphasizes the "Fight Smarter, not Harder" that HTTYD is good about. I do hope the next villain they have takes that lesson to heart, though...
Agreed.

Also; you remember how Stoick has that urban legend about punching a Dragon's head clean off as a baby back when he was introduced in HTTYD? Imagine what it'll be for Hiccup...

"Legend has it that when he was a baby, a Stormcutter was found playing with him. Do I believe it?"

[Hiccup calms down a rampaging Monstrous Nightmare so Gobber can get the bad tooth out]

"Yes I do."


Speaking of that; all the Viking chiefs in the series seem to pack epithets (Stoick the Vast, Oswald the Agreeable, Dagur the Deranged, Alvin the Treacherous), what's Hiccup's going to be? Serious question...
I wouldn't want to be Hiccup's child. The pressure would be so freaking high.

Hiccup the Tamer?
 
I actually haven't watched the TV show, so I've missed out on all that. The sequel doesn't make the absence felt at all, actually; everything shown in the movie felt like a logical progression of things shown in the first movie and some extrapolations that are easily made.

Yeah. A couple details like the name of the twins' Zippleback which wasn't given in Gift of the Night Fury or Gobber being the main dentist for dragons were from the TV series (in fact, Gobber becoming a dentist was the entire plot of the second episode since he was out of a job because of the peace for a while), which I thought was a nice touch given that apparently the movie team and the series team had some distance in between. Like, they did some communication (IE, the series gave Stoick a different dragon, a Thunderdrum, but he releases him so he can go raise some baby Thunderdrums they rescued to make room for Skullcrusher in HTTYD 2), but overall it was separate. Mind, the series was very good about wrapping up all it's plots and tidying up everything to give HTTYD 2 as much room as possible without feeling like the world wasn't evolving at all.

Overall I think watching the series first makes some things make more sense, like Hiccup being so adamant about being able to make peace with Drago for most of the movie. Just read this and it should be clear; and not only that, but he managed to get a dragon that dropped four entire islands (as in they were outright gone) to stop going on a rampage (since it was looking for its mother)

*shrugs* But yeah, the series more enhanced the viewing experience I found rather than make things seem odd, which was a nice touch and better than certain other EUs.


Though it wasn't like Hiccup's friends could do anything after Drago took their dragons. It just irks me that they were basically turned into cheerleaders. It is Hiccup's story of accepting his responsibilities and that flying away doesn't do anything, but I guess that the many anime/manga series that I've read got me very very tired of this:

Protagonist: I am powerful because of my friends!
Friends: *on the sidelines*

Like if the teens are portrayed as capable riders and fighters (and they should - it's been 5 years after all, and even I've heard about Alvin's shenanigans), show them that they are and not like they're unruly rebellious teenagers again. They're 20, they should know better than that!

Agreed. TBH, I wonder if it was just a time constraint. I definitely think the movie could of afforded to be longer, but given what they had they did very well. Hopefully they'll get more focus next time.

Mind, the TV series might of helped with that in my mind since it gives Astrid, Fishlegs, the twins, and yes even Snotlout a chance to shine, so to me it felt like "Okay this is Hiccup's arc", so I didn't actually realize how little they did.

The TV series was good about giving everyone moments to shine, from Astrid outgambiting Alvin the Treacherous and holding her own against a dragon that made Berk's best warriors avoid the thing like it was a Night Fury, to Fishlegs going berserk to get a dragon egg back from Snotlout to return to its mother and later being implied to have given him the beatdown he deserves in Hand-to-Hand training, the twins having surprisingly deep and introspective moments (resulting in Tuff managing to somewhat train a Typhoomerang to prevent a forest fire from spreading to Berk and Ruff bonding with a Sculdron allowing them to save it and get it back into the water), and Snotlout... bashes outcasts senseless in hand to hand combat. And actually cares for Hookfang...


Like I said, I agree with how Hiccup made his choice, but I just wish the directors showed more of how he got there instead of him deciding on it while his father's body burns behind him.

Fair enough.


I envision it as a sort of turbocharge - Night Fury imbuing its fireball with energy to form a more powerful blast. I was just joking with my friends afterwards about Toothless being the Avatar after that little glowing iceberg thing, and the fact that he's glowing blue.

Yeah; overclocking would make the most sense but given how quickly things wrapped up any bad side effects weren't seen. Looked fucking awesome, though, even if it was somewhat Dues Ex'y. But at least it's not as entirely out there as I originally thought given Toothless' other yields.


Seemed like it. I even caught a vaguely cone-shaped projectile before it impacted the ice nest; I suppose practice and battle-testing led Drago to conical cannon shells.

Then again, with the amount of dragon species out there and Drago's cruelty, I wouldn't put it past him to "milk" dragons of an explosive paste and then stick it behind a cannon shell.

That, or he's using Hideous Zippleback gas. That stuff explodes quite nicely and if Drago was able to develop something remotely like a modern tank shell he could probably keep it sufficiently sealed before sparking it.

I do have an idea of Hiccup, during one of his planning schemes between the series and this movie, had the idea of using barrels full of Zippleback gas to drop on say, an invasion by Dagur the Deranged and then lighting it from afar. Basically instead of the twins flying in close where they could get slings and javelins launched at them a dragon just drops it from up high, then another dragon (or someone using a bow to shoot a flaming arrow) could set it off from a distance.

Mind I also imagine Berk using similar barrels to blast some of the larger ice leftover from the attack once they got temporary camp set too...

I wouldn't want to be Hiccup's child. The pressure would be so freaking high.

Hiccup the Tamer?

Yeah. Then again, Hiccup went through the same thing so he might from the start try to get the kid to not worry about trying to top him and instead just focus in doing the best they could. Still wouldn't stop the pressure, I imagine :p

And yeah, that's certainly accurate. Not sure why it rubs me the wrong way though; maybe it just seems to mild in comparison. Which actually would fit Hiccup; he's generally mild mannered if snarky and likely wouldn't give a shit about some epicawesome title... yeah, actually, something humble like that would probably fit him the best.
 
Agreed. TBH, I wonder if it was just a time constraint. I definitely think the movie could of afforded to be longer, but given what they had they did very well. Hopefully they'll get more focus next time.

Mind, the TV series might of helped with that in my mind since it gives Astrid, Fishlegs, the twins, and yes even Snotlout a chance to shine, so to me it felt like "Okay this is Hiccup's arc", so I didn't actually realize how little they did.

The TV series was good about giving everyone moments to shine, from Astrid outgambiting Alvin the Treacherous and holding her own against a dragon that made Berk's best warriors avoid the thing like it was a Night Fury, to Fishlegs going berserk to get a dragon egg back from Snotlout to return to its mother and later being implied to have given him the beatdown he deserves in Hand-to-Hand training, the twins having surprisingly deep and introspective moments (resulting in Tuff managing to somewhat train a Typhoomerang to prevent a forest fire from spreading to Berk and Ruff bonding with a Sculdron allowing them to save it and get it back into the water), and Snotlout... bashes outcasts senseless in hand to hand combat. And actually cares for Hookfang...
I'll have to look at the series then. It's summer, I have time. I just wish that the movie would show how much the side characters have grown instead of mentally trapping them when they were teens.

That, or he's using Hideous Zippleback gas. That stuff explodes quite nicely and if Drago was able to develop something remotely like a modern tank shell he could probably keep it sufficiently sealed before sparking it.

I do have an idea of Hiccup, during one of his planning schemes between the series and this movie, had the idea of using barrels full of Zippleback gas to drop on say, an invasion by Dagur the Deranged and then lighting it from afar. Basically instead of the twins flying in close where they could get slings and javelins launched at them a dragon just drops it from up high, then another dragon (or someone using a bow to shoot a flaming arrow) could set it off from a distance.

Mind I also imagine Berk using similar barrels to blast some of the larger ice leftover from the attack once they got temporary camp set too...
The only way I can see Zippleback gas being used as a propellant in cannon shells would be if Drago managed to bound ahead literally centuries in tech research and develop cartridges for cannons. The gas would probably be able to be used in the explosive warhead though.

Though the question comes to mind that if he managed to make cannons of that sophisticaion, why doesn't he just use the power of GUNS to conquer everyone instead of dragons...

Yeah. Then again, Hiccup went through the same thing so he might from the start try to get the kid to not worry about trying to top him and instead just focus in doing the best they could. Still wouldn't stop the pressure, I imagine :p
True. If that ever comes around to happen, I would think that the character arc for the child would be to bring himself out of Hiccup's shadow, and not have to be "the Tamer's heir" or whatnot.

And yeah, that's certainly accurate. Not sure why it rubs me the wrong way though; maybe it just seems to mild in comparison. Which actually would fit Hiccup; he's generally mild mannered if snarky and likely wouldn't give a shit about some epicawesome title... yeah, actually, something humble like that would probably fit him the best.
Thanks. :)

Though maybe just "The Hiccup" would be good. :p ;D
 
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The only way I can see Zippleback gas being used as a propellant in cannon shells would be if Drago managed to bound ahead literally centuries in tech research and develop cartridges for cannons. The gas would probably be able to be used in the explosive warhead though.

Though the question comes to mind that if he managed to make cannons of that sophisticaion, why doesn't he just use the power of GUNS to conquer everyone instead of dragons...

Maybe it doesn't scale down very well? IE, you need a big setup like a siege bombard to use it as otherwise it lacks enough power to be worth the effort? I could easily see it being something relatively new he had and hadn't scaled it down yet.

Though considering that in the books they had dragon powered steamships, I wouldn't be surprised it they could punch ahead of their time quite nicely.

Hopefully when the DVD comes out they'll explain that in the commentary or something.

True. If that ever comes around to happen, I would think that the character arc for the child would be to bring himself out of Hiccup's shadow, and not have to be "the Tamer's heir" or whatnot.

Oh that's inevitable, but I could see Hiccup trying to make it easier for his kids rather than just sighing like Stoick somewhat did even if he genuinely cared.

Thanks. :)

Though maybe just "The Hiccup" would be good. :p ;D

:p
 
Maybe it doesn't scale down very well? IE, you need a big setup like a siege bombard to use it as otherwise it lacks enough power to be worth the effort? I could easily see it being something relatively new he had and hadn't scaled it down yet.

Though considering that in the books they had dragon powered steamships, I wouldn't be surprised it they could punch ahead of their time quite nicely.

Hopefully when the DVD comes out they'll explain that in the commentary or something.
To be honest, with the lack of fortifications, all that Drago needs to do is bombard a village with cannon shells. The fragmentation will utterly eviscerate the unarmored Vikings. Constantinople, Viking villages are not.
 
To be honest, with the lack of fortifications, all that Drago needs to do is bombard a village with cannon shells. The fragmentation will utterly eviscerate the unarmored Vikings. Constantinople, Viking villages are not.

Mmmm. Good point, though it's quite possible the cannons were a new development and by that time he was mostly set in his dragon power idea and he mostly used it for another layer and for getting Bewilderbeasts to come out and play. Mind, you wonder why Drago didn't tie himself down trying to take the islands given he did burn that entire meeting of chiefs.

Maybe that was the time Valka, Cloudjumper, and the Glacial Sanctuary dragons started fucking up his shit and he had to pull back because his supply lines would be way too vulnerable?

And Richardson: While likely true, it probably would convey the wrong image; one of a guy who tanks everything instead of dodging it :p
 
Mmmm. Good point, though it's quite possible the cannons were a new development and by that time he was mostly set in his dragon power idea and he mostly used it for another layer and for getting Bewilderbeasts to come out and play. Mind, you wonder why Drago didn't tie himself down trying to take the islands given he did burn that entire meeting of chiefs.

Maybe that was the time Valka, Cloudjumper, and the Glacial Sanctuary dragons started fucking up his shit and he had to pull back because his supply lines would be way too vulnerable?

And Richardson: While likely true, it probably would convey the wrong image; one of a guy who tanks everything instead of dodging it :p


Well, I would suggest calling him 'Hiccup, the Doctor', but he has a habit of terminally bitch-slapping things and people who cross him on purpose and isn't afraid to use that nice sword of his.
 
So, I have world building ideas

Humans:
Dragons obviously have some telepathic abilities, notably the Queens and Alphas. I propose that some humans, such as Valka and Hiccup, are born with abilities, passed through genes, that are somewhat compatible, and mostly receptive. Why receptive? Because I don't want the triumph in HtTYD2 to be about mind powers, but rather the real friendship they have.

In any case, such 'powers' makes them strange, when compared to most humans--less likely to resort to violence, possibly more analytical as a subconscious reaction to having to figure out "Why am I feeling this? Is it from me, or them?"

Dragons:
Dragons as a semi eusocial metamorphosing species. From what I understand about the TV series, dragons on Berk can reproduce, so reproduction is not solely limited to Queens and Alphas, but the Queens and Alphas probably have some sort of reproductive benefit over single dragon reproduction--I suspect the Queens can lay a lot of eggs of any breed of dragon. Which is to say, most dragons we see in the movies are a single species.

It's also possible that these huge dragons may exist to create homes for other dragons. However, I note the books open with all the dragons having gone away, which may support the top down reproductive strategy theory.

The baby dragons in the movie are largely undifferentiated, save by color, which might give a sign as to what they will grow up to be. Once they get old enough they eat a lot, possibly cocoon, and emerge a new dragon. ZIpplebacks are when two babies decide to metamorph together.

Some breeds, or maybe all breeds, can have a second change into an Alpha or a Queen. In the books Toothless is either a very old, or very young Green Death--these dragons start hunting Dragon sized, get huge for most of their lives, and then when older return to hunting dragon sized. In the movie, it's said that the Bewildibeast's face looks a bit like Toothless' when seen from below. Thus, Toothless as a potential Bewildibeast (in many many many years), thus why he might be the last--Drago was killing the rest. And his fire proof cloak? His Bewildibeast's from before it morphed.

Anyways, Dragons are largely go with the flow type species. It's not that they don't have wills or wants of their own, but they usually lack that inner drive goal orientated behavior we monkeys have in spades. If someone tells them to do something they usually do it--so the Queens and Alphas don't have to use much power, just nudge, and so, as species, something coming from outside is often rather like something from inside, non introspective dragons probably won't notice it.

A trait that the Alphas have left over from their childhoods, which is why they Drago's listened to him--they think it's their own idea, a remnant from their younger years.
 
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Speaking of that; all the Viking chiefs in the series seem to pack epithets (Stoick the Vast, Oswald the Agreeable, Dagur the Deranged, Alvin the Treacherous), what's Hiccup's going to be? Serious question...


Hiccup the PeaceMAKER.




So I watched the movie today and one thing which just isn't getting mentioned...

Stoick the Vast deserves the award of BEST FLIPPING HUSBAND OF THE DECADE.

Seriously, he sees his wife, 20 years missing who could have come back to him any time, any time.


And he serenades her and sweeps her off her feet like it it was the first day they'd met all over again. Practically gets down on his knees and proposes to her in perfect glee. I'll tell you, if there is one thing HTTYD does consistently right its romance subplots... and hell that entire scene with Hiccups mom babbling about how she understands if He hates her as Stoick advances only to make sure that she knows how much he loves her...

Yeah My eyes were wet and my smile was huge for that entire scene. It was sweet in a way that never felt fake.
 
Man, I just watched HTTYD1 for the first time in... 3 years, I think (Lost the DVD, found it again.), and it's still awesome as hell.
 
Man, I just watched HTTYD1 for the first time in... 3 years, I think (Lost the DVD, found it again.), and it's still awesome as hell.
Yeah, I've been meaning to look it up again and watch it. And see if I can get my hands on the TV series. Which I didn't even know existed until I saw a comment about it having been basically ignored by the movie's writers.
 
TBH... I wouldn't say it was quite ignored as much as just not used and the teams worked mostly separately rather than being really tight knit. Having watched most of the series before hand and having a general gist of the rest, there's nothing in the movie that outright contradicts the series. The closest thing to an outright contradiction is Stoick's dragon, but the series tidied up that in a non-ham fisted way and one that actually made sense and nicely built all the characters involved.

There are a few minor details that were from the show, though. Remember how Gobber was being dentist to that Hideous Zippleback after Hiccup returns to Berk? Gobber getting that job was the plot of an entire episode early in the series (and was actually a pretty epic moment where it seems like they have to put down Hookfang, Hiccup is trying to drag Gobber back as he kits up to do it, Hookfang roars in their faces, both of them look at each other and go "Did you see that?", Hiccup lets go, Gobber immobilizes Hookfang and gets the bad tooth out, boom he's got a new job)

So it's not so much the series is ignored as much as they just didn't use anything from it for the plot. Which is fine by me, there's still a few nods there (Thunderdrums show up during Hiccup and Toothless' first flight), but there were no major things from the series they really needed to do and it's not outright contradicted. In fact, having watched the series before hand I felt like the series built up HTTYD 2 extremely well, especially with that fridge brilliance I linked to about why Hiccup was so damn adamant about being able to make peace with Drago early on.
 
Saw it at the drive-in last night. Great film, maybe even one of those rare sequels that surpasses the original film. I'm glad I wasn't the only one getting Godzilla vibes from Toothless at the end.
 
In this thread, there so many instances of people using "of" when they mean "have" that hunting them all down and quoting them would take more time than I have before I have to go to bed.

The contraction of "have" is "-'ve". You are thinking about the sound you make when you say "would've" or "could've", and the "'ve" sounds like "of". But you stopped thinking about what word that sound actually is, and it is impacting your writing.

Just remember: If you catch yourself writing "could of" or "would of" or any similar variation, recognize that you are always making a mistake. There is no case at all where that is grammatically correct.

(The closest thing to correct would be something like ..."You could, of course." in which there's a comma clearly cutting the two words apart into separate clauses.)


On topic: Overall, I liked the movie.

It rather gave me the impression that only huge-ass dragons like the Red (Green?) Death from the first, and the Bewilderbeasts in this one, could be Alphas. But then, I guess mind-control was specific to Bewilderbeasts (given their name, which wasn't revealed in the movie itself) and the Green (Red?) Death from the first movie was just bullying the other dragons through size and power.

But when Toothless became the Alpha, I was sort of taken out of the movie. "He's not X-Box Huge like the other three, so how can he be an Alpha?"


Some blood or otherwise sign of actual death would have helped with the White Bewilderbeast's and Stoic's deaths, if only because I wouldn't waste time wondering if they were actually dead and whether they were going to make a heroic comeback.
 
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It rather gave me the impression that only huge-ass dragons like the Red (Green?) Death from the first, and the Bewilderbeasts in this one, could be Alphas. But then, I guess mind-control was specific to Bewilderbeasts (given their name, which wasn't revealed in the movie itself) and the Green (Red?) Death from the first movie was just bullying the other dragons through size and power.

But when Toothless became the Alpha, I was sort of taken out of the movie. "He's not X-Box Huge like the other three, so how can he be an Alpha?"

If you rewatch the first movie you will notice that Toothless gets zoned out while flying and takes Hiccup to the ___Death's cave.

In movie two I think Toothless becomes a social Alpha, the dragons choose to follow him, but he has no mind powers.

My theory is that Night Furies can become Alphas, given enough time--in the books Toothless is actually the breed the Red Death is.
 
I think the third movie is going to feature what happened to the Night Furies.

By the time of the first movie, there's only Toothless left. There might have been others before, and the vikings wouldn't be able to tell, since Night Furies (judging by pre-Hiccup Toothless) always attack at night with fly-by bombings, never allowing themselves to be seen.

In all the years since, Hiccup has never found another of Toothless' breed. His mother has apparently met them before, judging by how she knew about the spines. Also, by how she ever knew what a Night Fury looked like. But she also apparently hasn't seen any for many years now.


At first, I thought maybe Drago was hunting them to extinction, but that doesn't seem to be the case.
 
The hunting thing is a theory I expounded on earlier in the thread. Night furies turn into Alphas/bewilderbeasts, and so Drago didn't want the competition.

I also seem to recall the baby dragon Hiccup was on when confronting controlled Toothless being black
 
Am I the only one that cringed when they were climbing between the giant gears on Drago's ship? That could have ended so badly.
 
The hunting thing is a theory I expounded on earlier in the thread. Night furies turn into Alphas/bewilderbeasts, and so Drago didn't want the competition.

I also seem to recall the baby dragon Hiccup was on when confronting controlled Toothless being black

Actually it seems to me more that ANY species can become an Alpha... but needs the right conditions in order to do so. Bewilderbeasts and other leviathan class dragons have the easiest time of doing it... but other breeds can become alpha also because it's not just the control aspect which is important... its an over all social aspect.
 
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