- Location
- Little Rock, AR, United States of America
This has been a question that's running through my head. How do you write a meaningful and fun story with deconstructive elements? And how do you keep it from being too dark?
How does one write a good deconstruction?
- Thread starter RequiemZero
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- deconstruction fiction
UrsaTempest
Don't Panic!
You'll have to love the works first.
NonSequtur
a body
There's nothing, to my mind, that requires a deconstruction to be pessimistic in tone.
But I suspect this won't go anywhere until there's a working definition of deconstruction for the thread. @RequiemZero , what do you think deconstruction is?
But I suspect this won't go anywhere until there's a working definition of deconstruction for the thread. @RequiemZero , what do you think deconstruction is?
- Location
- Little Rock, AR, United States of America
To me, deconstruction is an approach to narrative concepts and ideas. Specifically taking them apart to see how they work. I want to ask the questions on what they do, how they do, and why they do and in writing the story create plausible answers that satisfy the reader.
However, I want advice on writing deconstruction in order to enhance the story. Too many works shoehorn "deconstruction" just to make their work look deep, while really they just come off as kind of pretentious. And I do detest me a person who equates grim dark with deconstruction. One plays a narrative concept realistically while the other paints it black and tattoos it with skulls.
Hope my answer is to your satisfaction.
magic9mushroom
BEST END.
A good deconstruction grows naturally out of inconsistencies you spot in something, not from you saying "I want to write a deconstruction".
That's an odd thing to say. I mean, that would probably help, but it hardly seems like a necessity. Deconstruction is about putting fiction under the magnifying glass. What if you don't like what you find there? Just give up?
If you don't love the source you probably don't understand why people love it and thus your deconstruction is probably going to be more about bashing it than cutting to the heart of the genre.
Ser_Serendipity
Building Character
Find something about a story that is glossed over for the sake of telling the story in the first place.
Why are we using kids for the giant robots/Is it really that easy to hide a magical world/How can the government have this much power and always handle it responsibly/But wait if you're spending all your time fighting giant monsters would you have time for school/Hey isn't it kinda crazy to constantly hold others lives over your own?
Then, make a story about those glossed-over details.
There, you now have a deconstruction. If you don't want it to be dark, make it idealistic.
Even straight works will often hold deconstructive elements. If a story is solely about deconstruction, it's probably going to be very "sharp" for lack of a better word.
Why are we using kids for the giant robots/Is it really that easy to hide a magical world/How can the government have this much power and always handle it responsibly/But wait if you're spending all your time fighting giant monsters would you have time for school/Hey isn't it kinda crazy to constantly hold others lives over your own?
Then, make a story about those glossed-over details.
There, you now have a deconstruction. If you don't want it to be dark, make it idealistic.
Even straight works will often hold deconstructive elements. If a story is solely about deconstruction, it's probably going to be very "sharp" for lack of a better word.
See, I'm all about handling stories with respect. But I reject the idea that only people who love something are capable of creating a good story examining it.
It's less of a hard rule and more of a statical rule of thumb. People who understand what makes a genre truly tick and connect to people without loving the work are super rare. Good writers are also very rare. Finding an intersection here, of someone who actually had put in the time to "get" a genre without loving it or just bashing it, who is a strong enough author to pull it off? Better hope the stars are right
Sufficient Juice
A steady supply of vitamins
- Location
- The carbohydrates
Mark Twain did a lot of bashing on stories he absolutely didn't love, and he was a good writer.
Wait, he was also born after an appearance of Halley's Comet. Shit.
Reveen
Castro-Trudeauist
Deconstruction is generally a term applied to works after the fact, sometimes because they're legitimately about examining genre tropes, other times people label a work as such just because a work doesn't kowtow to playing all the tropes uncritically straight.
I'm of the opinion that any piece of fiction needs atleast some small element of "deconstruction" in the sense of examining or skewering bullshit genre conceits to be fresh even if it's intended to be a straight example of the genre. Incredibles is a pretty good example of this.
I'm of the opinion that any piece of fiction needs atleast some small element of "deconstruction" in the sense of examining or skewering bullshit genre conceits to be fresh even if it's intended to be a straight example of the genre. Incredibles is a pretty good example of this.
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- Location
- Little Rock, AR, United States of America
Could anybody point to me a few more examples of stories that deconstruct concepts without sacrificing telling good story? That would help a lot and would give a frame of reference to analyze story conventions.
Khaos
Baguette, wine and cheese
Madoka, Evangelion, Watchmen, Spec Ops: The Line? If we're going by the informal definition, those probably fit.
Hykal94
Orange Estus Kitteh
- Location
- Firelink Shrine
Khaos
Baguette, wine and cheese
I didn't forget about it, it came to my mind but my knowledge of it is "videogame about videogames players, is a deconstruction, also has a skeleton that created a wave of skeleton pics". And that's not even a summary, that's literally what I know about it.
How dare you forget this?
I wouldn't really call it a deconstruction; there's some elements in the Genocide route but it's mainly a sort of satire.
How dare you forget this?
The First Law is a pretty great deconstruction series and Dagger & Coin is pretty nifty as well
- Location
- Patriarchova
I'd say the best deconstructions are the work of authors who love the genre they're deconstructing, but are simultaneously aware of its flaws and want it to be better.
- Location
- The Hague
- Pronouns
- He/Him
It's important to understand that a lot of things which are described as 'deconstructions' simply aren't. Evangelion is a good example. It's described as 'deconstructing' the giant robot genre, but it was really just Anno's love letter to Mobile Suit Gundam, a show he considered to be an timeless, transcendent work of storytelling. Of course, how we view it is as important as anything else, and for many viewers Evangelion was their first experience with something of its type (and in the west those viewers probably just got done with Gundam Wing) and so they see it in a particular light.
The Bird
tEM IS GUD...RITER!
- Location
- In that den of villains and scum, OKLAHOMA
To be a good deconstruction, you have to know the tropes or genre conceits your deconstructing inside and out, and you have to know how those tropes would function under the magnifying glass of either another genre, satire, or under the magnifying glass of reality.
For example, Discworld. It frequently analyzes fantasy elements and, while satirizing them, also analyzes how they would function to some degree and the effects therof. For example, the first Sam Vimes book takes a look at the 'incompetent guardsmen' trope, typically used so the hero can outwit them in some way, and shows us how a city with that trope would actually function: Ahnk Mopork is a hive of villainy with only one law anyone follows: Vetinari is boss.
For example, Discworld. It frequently analyzes fantasy elements and, while satirizing them, also analyzes how they would function to some degree and the effects therof. For example, the first Sam Vimes book takes a look at the 'incompetent guardsmen' trope, typically used so the hero can outwit them in some way, and shows us how a city with that trope would actually function: Ahnk Mopork is a hive of villainy with only one law anyone follows: Vetinari is boss.
- Pronouns
- He/Him
From what I understand, there are about three definitions for deconstruction:
Ye Old Definition: Introspective critique of a work or genre.
TV Tropes Definition: Reality ensues. (which TV Tropes says is just the most common version of the previous definition)
Missing the Point Definition: Real is grimdark.
Having a thriller or horror abruptly end with "then they called the authorities and GTFO" would be a deconstruction, one with a happier ending.
Ye Old Definition: Introspective critique of a work or genre.
TV Tropes Definition: Reality ensues. (which TV Tropes says is just the most common version of the previous definition)
Missing the Point Definition: Real is grimdark.
Having a thriller or horror abruptly end with "then they called the authorities and GTFO" would be a deconstruction, one with a happier ending.
@firefossil Thats my experience. When I was younger I read several stories that would be considered deconstructions, but they still seemed entertaining as themselves. When I read a modern 'deconstruction', especially if it's 'fanfic', it seems that much more knowledge is assumed in the reader, and even more a specific attitude is assumed. When I read that silly book about the US Marine Orcs I knew almost nothing about the DND cliches it mocked and didn't really have a horse in the 'omg fantasy so lame' race, but it was an interesting story anyway.
When I read a story that boils down to a fanfic about a popular work where the author takes to the plot with a machete and assumes this will be entertaining, it's quite a different impression.
I think if you can write a story that asks 'what about ...' In the context of a broader genre without feeling the need to write torture porn about characters you hate, you're off to a good start. But I believe there still has to be a story - 'they couldn't escape because #realism and then they all died, the end' is not a deconstruction. Indeed, taking this perspective to a work doesn't even need to be the main thrust of the narrative. Lots of stories include examinations of genre conventions without being written as a hit-job on genre XYZ. For instance, I'd say the Night Watch books take a critical eye to a number of fantasy cliches, but are narratively about something else.
When I read a story that boils down to a fanfic about a popular work where the author takes to the plot with a machete and assumes this will be entertaining, it's quite a different impression.
I think if you can write a story that asks 'what about ...' In the context of a broader genre without feeling the need to write torture porn about characters you hate, you're off to a good start. But I believe there still has to be a story - 'they couldn't escape because #realism and then they all died, the end' is not a deconstruction. Indeed, taking this perspective to a work doesn't even need to be the main thrust of the narrative. Lots of stories include examinations of genre conventions without being written as a hit-job on genre XYZ. For instance, I'd say the Night Watch books take a critical eye to a number of fantasy cliches, but are narratively about something else.
- Location
- The Pleroma
Well, first of all, I'd start with a general textbook on continental philosophy to get you at least introduced to the basic ideas, and then you can move on to Heidegger and Derrida.
But in general terms, deconstruction as a literary/artistic method of criticism emphasizes close reading in order to lay bare the internal contradictions and irreducible complexity that, to Derrida, was inherent to existence and to text itself.
I hope that this was of help to you.
But in general terms, deconstruction as a literary/artistic method of criticism emphasizes close reading in order to lay bare the internal contradictions and irreducible complexity that, to Derrida, was inherent to existence and to text itself.
I hope that this was of help to you.
Hykal94
Orange Estus Kitteh
- Location
- Firelink Shrine
Question: Is a deconstruction a deconstruction if the reader is not familiar what is being deconstructed?
How could a non-giant robot fan understand the love letter/deconstruction that is Evangelion if said person is not familiar with giant robots in the first place?
How could a non-giant robot fan understand the love letter/deconstruction that is Evangelion if said person is not familiar with giant robots in the first place?