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Hostage Situation [Worm AU Fanfic]

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Fouredged Sword said:
Amy could charge by the minute she worked in a hospital, in the door to out. The rate could be in the thousands of dollars a minute. You know how the hospital would respond? They would line everyone up in a line with their hands out and all the consent paperwork filled out and a doctor behind each ready to cover the relevant medical facts so Amy doesn't waste a second. The hospital would still think they are getting a steal compared to any other form of medicine.

That's the thing. Once you charge money for something you give it value. Once something has value, people treat it like it's worth something. Give something away for free and no matter how useful or wonderful it is, people will forget to respect.
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Everything you said here and more. She could treat the poor for free. She could volunteer to heal Endbringer fights for free. She could still make an obscene amount of money on everything else.

It's also possible that she could make drugs to treat all sorts of conditions. And they'd actually work, with no side-effects. Then again, assassination attempts paid for by big pharma in 3.. 2.. 1 :)
 
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Fouredged Sword said:
Amy could charge by the minute she worked in a hospital, in the door to out.
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Heck, even if she only comes in one day a week, she'll still be rolling in the cash before the week's out.

Let me explain. If they limit her to just the ER, ya know, the basic "Oh, I accidentally stabbed myself with a nail" cases, then that means they can keep a fair bit of staff working on the big issues.

If they have her doing the big issues, it's what, minute per patient, walking down the aisle touch touch touch, bam, out the door....

She could clear a ward in 10 minutes. Maybe less.
 
Night_stalker said:
Heck, even if she only comes in one day a week, she'll still be rolling in the cash before the week's out.

Let me explain. If they limit her to just the ER, ya know, the basic "Oh, I accidentally stabbed myself with a nail" cases, then that means they can keep a fair bit of staff working on the big issues.

If they have her doing the big issues, it's what, minute per patient, walking down the aisle touch touch touch, bam, out the door....

She could clear a ward in 10 minutes. Maybe less.
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In canon it takes longer for Panacea to heal than that. She has to figure out what is wrong, figure out how it should be working, and then make the change. Broken bones that she has hundreds of hours' practice on? No problem. The first time she sees a new disease, on the other hand, is going to take some time..

That said, your point is entirely correct. If she was only helping the people who were the worst off - those who had terminal diseases or were critically injured - there just wouldn't be enough "demand" for her healing in Brockton Bay. The population isn't big enough for that. So either the hospitals are (ab)using her for everything or there's a sizable number of patients travelling to the Bay just to see Panacea.
 
Nicholai said:
In canon it takes longer for Panacea to heal than that. She has to figure out what is wrong, figure out how it should be working, and then make the change. Broken bones that she has hundreds of hours' practice on? No problem. The first time she sees a new disease, on the other hand, is going to take some time..

That said, your point is entirely correct. If she was only helping the people who were the worst off - those who had terminal diseases or were critically injured - there just wouldn't be enough "demand" for her healing in Brockton Bay. The population isn't big enough for that. So either the hospitals are (ab)using her for everything or there's a sizable number of patients travelling to the Bay just to see Panacea.
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Something I always wondered about is whether the hospitals are kept full by out of town patients, and if so, what they are being charged by the hospitals?

It could be that that there are actually millions being made off Panacea, quiet like.
 
Can we take a look at Vicky's lines? They come across really flat to me. The concern about "discrimination" in particular seemed like a weak line for a superhero to throw out. I know Vicky is not written as a genius, by any means. But only a small minority of people I know are terribly worried about discrimination against the rich. If we assume a vaguely Christian moral code, then maybe Vicky would be more aligned with the value of "don't judge people" than she is with the value of "fairness of treatment for those in power"?

I'm not sure I like my solution better than yours, but I would encourage you to look at how Vicky comes across. Is she advancing her own beliefs, or just acting as a (Socratic) foil so Marquis isn't monologuing?
 
Jcogginsa said:
If the scene were from Amy's perspective you'd be right. But it's not. We see the real Marquis via his thoughts.

Outwardly, the same. The problem is that we see his thoughts. If he's putting on an act, his inner monologue would be noticeably different from his outward act.
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I'm really not sure how him having murdered changes anything. It's not like he's evil or psychotic. He's not even truly amoral, he just defines his morality by loyalty and family. If you're one of his, he takes care if you. If you're not, he doesn't care unless you get in the way. Marquis is a very practical man, and one of absolute integrity. Of course he's going to be exactly as polite and kind on the inside. It has nothing to do with him killing you because you made it necessary.
 
Jetsmillion said:
Now if the PRT or Dragon threatened Amy or demanded Marquis beak his own rules, I could easily seeing him politely explaining to them all the multiple and painful ways he would like them to shove it.
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Hmmm... not sure about that. Marquis seems more like the sort of person to politely debate the problems inherent in their plan. If he then got pissed off I'd believe he'd merely take control of the conversation by choosing to end it politely and then patiently wait for an opportunity to act. The man appears to be one of those few people that actually plays the long game.
 
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Ack said:
"Razors are in relatively short supply, in here,"
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Says the guy who just thought about how he could coat his door in razor sharp bone spikes within seconds.

Ack said:
"Wait – what you're talking about is extortion," Vicky exclaimed.
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I realize she's still a kid, but it's not. Insurance is nothing like extortion. It can be, if someone's forcing it on you, but if that's the case it's not insurance. It's extortion. Insurance is paying for something just in case. For this to be extortion, Amy would have to be telling people that if they don't pay insurance she'd hurt them to the point they needed to pay for healing.

Again, this could just be GG's lack of knowledge here, as I doubt it's your own.

Ack said:
"Fine," his daughter replied. "Just remember. One week. That's all you get."
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Calling it: The minute after said week ends, Simmy drops down.

Don't really care if it happens, I figure it's possible.
 
Night_stalker said:
Sharp bone spikes designed to stab something are not the same thing as something made for shaving.
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While true, they're better than nothing for the guy who's supposed to be a cultured gentleman (at least as an outwards appearance, that's his shtick, right?), as well as trading what he creates for razors that someone else might be able to create.

It's not really a huge thing. They're in the Birdcage, I'm sure they've got better things to worry about.

Plus, this way he can't 'cut himself shaving'.
 
Jcogginsa said:
He was also a murderer. One who killed people with no remorse and made sure people were afraid of him
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It seems to me that you're saying, "He's a villain and a murderer, he should be acting like that all the time." But no, he really doesn't.
Nicholai said:
Yes, he was in canon. That doesn't change the fact that, in this story at this point in time he has no reason to be anything other than civilized, polite, and helpful. Doing anything other than what he is currently doing will destroy any chance he has of getting out of the Birdcage.

The man is not a suicidal idiot. He is not brain damaged or otherwise incapable. He is not a raving lunatic.

Eventually we should expect to see the "real Marquis" if he ever gets out of the Birdcage. Until then he's going to be doing his best to win a "father of the year" award.
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Well, in canon, we do see the 'real Marquis' when he gets out of the Birdcage. He's happy to be with his daughter and avoid getting enmeshed in supervillain plots.
argent said:
Which doesn't preclude Marquis from being charming and being able to act as a nice guy or a loving father. People and well written characters are more then one dimensional murder bots.

Edit- imped
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Exactly and precisely.
Jcogginsa said:
If the scene were from Amy's perspective you'd be right. But it's not. We see the real Marquis via his thoughts.

Outwardly, the same. The problem is that we see his thoughts. If he's putting on an act, his inner monologue would be noticeably different from his outward act.
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Who says he's putting on an act?

Have you read his dialogue, prior to being Birdcaged and in the Birdcage? He's always polite.
tjmitchem said:
Everything you said here and more. She could treat the poor for free. She could volunteer to heal Endbringer fights for free. She could still make an obscene amount of money on everything else.

It's also possible that she could make drugs to treat all sorts of conditions. And they'd actually work, with no side-effects. Then again, assassination attempts paid for by big pharma in 3.. 2.. 1 :)
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Amy can't do drugs. She can make bio-organisms tailored for a specific purpose, but she can't create a drug and be certain it works.
Night_stalker said:
Heck, even if she only comes in one day a week, she'll still be rolling in the cash before the week's out.

Let me explain. If they limit her to just the ER, ya know, the basic "Oh, I accidentally stabbed myself with a nail" cases, then that means they can keep a fair bit of staff working on the big issues.

If they have her doing the big issues, it's what, minute per patient, walking down the aisle touch touch touch, bam, out the door....

She could clear a ward in 10 minutes. Maybe less.
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Depends. In canon, she's working on a kid with his heart misplaced outside his chest. From the description, it was taking her some time.
Nicholai said:
In canon it takes longer for Panacea to heal than that. She has to figure out what is wrong, figure out how it should be working, and then make the change. Broken bones that she has hundreds of hours' practice on? No problem. The first time she sees a new disease, on the other hand, is going to take some time..

That said, your point is entirely correct. If she was only helping the people who were the worst off - those who had terminal diseases or were critically injured - there just wouldn't be enough "demand" for her healing in Brockton Bay. The population isn't big enough for that. So either the hospitals are (ab)using her for everything or there's a sizable number of patients travelling to the Bay just to see Panacea.
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Take your pick for the most cynical one. :p
Zampano said:
Can we take a look at Vicky's lines? They come across really flat to me. The concern about "discrimination" in particular seemed like a weak line for a superhero to throw out. I know Vicky is not written as a genius, by any means. But only a small minority of people I know are terribly worried about discrimination against the rich. If we assume a vaguely Christian moral code, then maybe Vicky would be more aligned with the value of "don't judge people" than she is with the value of "fairness of treatment for those in power"?

I'm not sure I like my solution better than yours, but I would encourage you to look at how Vicky comes across. Is she advancing her own beliefs, or just acting as a (Socratic) foil so Marquis isn't monologuing?
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Vicky is idealistic, and looking at matters from one particular perspective. She's not about 'discrimination against the rich' but rather 'one fair price for all'. After all, if you charge one person ten dollars for something, then charge the next guy a thousand dollars for the same thing, if you take that out of context, it might seem a little unfair, right?
tjmitchem said:
Yep. Just didn't remember them having anything to do with Fleur. At least canonically.
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I seem to recall seeing WoG for that, but I cannot recall where.
Joshua Coffin said:
I'm really not sure how him having murdered changes anything. It's not like he's evil or psychotic. He's not even truly amoral, he just defines his morality by loyalty and family. If you're one of his, he takes care if you. If you're not, he doesn't care unless you get in the way. Marquis is a very practical man, and one of absolute integrity. Of course he's going to be exactly as polite and kind on the inside. It has nothing to do with him killing you because you made it necessary.
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Yup. He's not a good man (by his own admission) but he's not a raving psycho either.
Rihtan said:
Hmmm... not sure about that. Marquis seems more like the sort of person to politely debate the problems inherent in their plan. If he then got pissed off I'd believe he'd merely take control of the conversation by choosing to end it politely and then patiently wait for an opportunity to act. The man appears to be one of those few people that actually plays the long game.
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Very much so.
Franklymydear said:
I realize she's still a kid, but it's not. Insurance is nothing like extortion. It can be, if someone's forcing it on you, but if that's the case it's not insurance. It's extortion. Insurance is paying for something just in case. For this to be extortion, Amy would have to be telling people that if they don't pay insurance she'd hurt them to the point they needed to pay for healing.
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Once again, this is GG's idealism showing through. If you look at it without context, "Pay me this much money every month, whether you need healing or not, or I won't come heal you when you need it." sounds like extortion until you realise that that's exactly how insurance companies work.
 
Nicholai said:
In canon it takes longer for Panacea to heal than that. She has to figure out what is wrong, figure out how it should be working, and then make the change. Broken bones that she has hundreds of hours' practice on? No problem. The first time she sees a new disease, on the other hand, is going to take some time..
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Still damn sight quicker than most medical treatments on hand.
 
Night_stalker said:
Still damn sight quicker than most medical treatments on hand.
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Most definitely.

She could take someone, spend half an hour to an hour, just to get things just right, and they would walk out in the absolute best damn shape they'd ever been in, with their body set back to the 18-25 range of fitness and flexibility.

Mind you, she'd charge shitloads for that.
 
So I like your explanation that GG hasn't thought deeply about this subject. That's especially true if Amy has been on hand to fix some of GG's over- exuberant arrests. But it seems like she should at least be consistent. The "cardboard" feeling comes from having a few abortive starts at a counterargument without coordinating those arguments. So as i understand it the exchange is something like:

M: If you want something (anything), go get it
V: That sounds villainous
M: Take proactive steps toward your goals, don't be a doormat
V: helping everybody is the way to be a hero
M: Non-powered people can be heroes and still get paid
V: Parahumans who take money are rogues, not heroes
M/A: Healing should cost money / that might cause problems / (economics)
V: That's unfair!
M/A: (more economics)
V: Charging people to be healed even if they don't need it is extortion

I notice a few things having read that again more carefully.

First, she really ate a lot of Amy's time and i cannot believe Marquis put up with her interruptions. One or two, maybe, but she got as many or more lines than his actual daughter. This is especially true because she is identified first as Brandish's daughter.

Second, Vicky's mom is a lawyer, and many lawyers are paid to be "on retainer" so the idea of paying someone to be on-call with a specialized service shouldn't be too foreign.

Third, the distrust she has for Marquis is a good motivator for her weirdly naive first reaction to the self-determination speech he starts off with. And maybe since her version of "helping everyone" is something that she wants to do at all times, the thought Amy isn't as happy about it wouldn't occur immediately. BUT I feel like putting all of those things in her mouth, one after another, is just too on-the-nose. She had just been shot down several times in a row and acknowledges that she's "butting in" when she interrupts Amy. To have her argue about unfair pricing structures as something to decide what makes someone a hero or not just feels too close to the soap-boxy lectures of character bashing. You may agree or not but I wanted to give you the idea of where the dissonance is coming from for me.

(I enjoy your work mostly and think that you spend far too much time going back and changing chapters in response to criticism. Take this as poll-data for the next good scene that you write! :)
 
Look at it from Vicky's point of view. She's all too aware of the fact that Marquis is a supervillain, so she's basically seeing everything that he's saying in that light. A little ad hominem, but there you are. (If her mother had spoken of the same things, she would have seen it in a different light).

Marquis wasn't pulling her up too hard because he was enjoying the call too much, and Amy was still there.

And as for Vicky's argument not being coordinated ... yeah, and? People do that all the time.
 
Ack said:
Amy can't do drugs. She can make bio-organisms tailored for a specific purpose, but she can't create a drug and be certain it works.
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Actually she sort of can, although not directly. She can create an organism which produces the drugs, and could even make the organism one that's safe to consume but does not survive in the human body so you wouldn't even have to filter them out as is done in real life to get penicillin, and some other drugs.

I like where this story seems to be going, one thing about Amelia's earning potential - it's canon that she's publicly known as being able to de-age people. She could continue offering healing for free and still become one of the richest people in the world charging a million $ a year (i.e for each year she de-aged a person).
 
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