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Halkegenia Online Thread 6 - //"Pixies!"\\

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Rolfson said:
There's been an implication she'll end up working for Kirito and Asuna.
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Maybe, but hopefully she will remain a background character for the most part. After all we have plenty of minor, major and OC main characters for this story already.
 
Archons said:
Ah, so Chessmaster Bishop finally makes here appearance and is starting to put together all those "happy little coincidences" that enable HEROIC QUESTING AND ADVENTURE to take place farther down the line. Also, it appears as if she already has at least a few pixies working for her. I wonder what other forms of influence she is using to manipulate the flow of events?
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Last I checked Bishop can't read minds so wouldn't have known the thoughts or personalities of the people involved well enough to set something like that up. It's much more likely she was just concerned with the possibility of the books getting damaged so is happy Enya has a minder while running around with ink bottles in a library.
 
Archons said:
And it just so happens Colbert and Enya discover that they are academic soul mates because Bishop was worried about ink stains? There are a million different ways that TH could have chosen to have these two meet up if that is what she wanted with the story, but this specifically happened under Bishop's supervision (and likely her direction).

It doesn't take a mind reader to have a nav pixie report on what Enya is studying at the library, nor would it be terribly difficult to find out about the people first involved "first contact" such as Colbert.
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It does take a mind reader to effectively have mirror visioned traumas and passion and philosphie come up just like that when colbert doesn't talk about his shit like that. And the classes have been disrupted.
 
Archons said:
And it just so happens Colbert and Enya discover that they are academic soul mates because Bishop was worried about ink stains? There are a million different ways that TH could have chosen to have these two meet up if that is what she wanted with the story, but this specifically happened under Bishop's supervision (and likely her direction).

It doesn't take a mind reader to have a nav pixie report on what Enya is studying at the library, nor would it be terribly difficult to find out about the people first involved "first contact" such as Colbert.
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You're forgetting that Bishop is not human, and that it would take a near perfect understanding of humans to manipulate events in the manner you're describing.

Anyway fortuitous luck sits better then manipulated by a chessmaster.

Edit: Also what larekko said.
 
Vaermina said:
You're forgetting that Bishop is not human, and that it would take a near perfect understanding of humans to manipulate events in the manner you're describing.

Anyway fortuitous luck sits better then manipulated by a chessmaster.

Edit: Also what larekko said.
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It's true as you say that it would take a chessmaster to get everything to work out just like that by chance. And even the full Cardinal system with all the help Yui could give in such, should be far away from being able to achieve such.

I imagine that she should be quite capable of increasing the chance of certain things happening though. A bit like certain people can in the real world. Which is, bring people who have the potential to help each other out, or change things, in to contact with each other. And some will fail and others will succeed.
 
Zeful said:
That hasn't stopped me before. And as for The Seed, Cardinal didn't activate it, Cardinal didn't interact with it, and Cardinal likely didn't have time to spontaneously manifest an avatar that is somehow different from all the other NPCs between the Seed being activated and the transfer proper.
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I didn't claim that Cardinal activated it. As for the avatar, there is no reason to assume Cardinal couldn't manifest it at will both before and after the transition.

Edit: Yui and the pixies were AI of varying degrees of intelligence, but they were also primarily bound to physical (in relative terms) bodies as far as I know, the same doesn't apply to Cardinal. It makes sense for it to end up more like a spirit that can manifest an avatar at will much like the water spirit from that lake. I believe TH already mentioned Cardinal could ASSUME DIRECT CONTROL of mobs, though I'm not sure if that was in jest.
 
Quickshot0 said:
It's true as you say that it would take a chessmaster to get everything to work out just like that by chance. And even the full Cardinal system with all the help Yui could give in such, should be far away from being able to achieve such.

I imagine that she should be quite capable of increasing the chance of certain things happening though. A bit like certain people can in the real world. Which is, bring people who have the potential to help each other out, or change things, in to contact with each other. And some will fail and others will succeed.
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Yea but to do that requires in-depth personal information about the people you want to help.

Though that kind of brings up another point, does anyone think that people will be happy with Bishop messing with the Pixies free will and using them to spy on people?
 
Vaermina said:
Yea but to do that requires in-depth personal information about the people you want to help.

Though that kind of brings up another point, does anyone think that people will be happy with Bishop messing with the Pixies free will and using them to spy on people?
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Where on earth did you get that?


And no, they probably wont be happy about Bishop spying on them, but that's going around.
 
Nervaqus987 said:
Where on earth did you get that?
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Because that's what it is, I mean you could try to confuse the matter by saying they are following Bishops orders of their own free will. But that ignores the fact that she made it so that they revere her as a god.

Though that gives us an interesting experiment, use the pixies that were born after the transition and who had no contact with Pixie culture and see if they can refuse or otherwise say no to Bishop or not. If they can that's proof it's cultural and that they have free will, if they can't something will have to be done.
And no, they probably wont be happy about Bishop spying on them, but that's going around.
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What do you mean?
 
Vaermina said:
Because that's what it is, I mean you could try to confuse the matter by saying they are following her of their own free will. But that ignores the fact that she made it so that they revere her as a god.

Though that gives us an interesting experiment, use the pixies that were born after the transition and who had no contact with Pixie culture and see if they can refuse or otherwise say no to Bishop or not. If they can that's proof it's cultural and that they have free will, if they can't something will have to be done.
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No, it really isn't.

She didn't make the pixies do anything. She didn't go "I am your god" or say "Do what I say or I'll smite you."

In all likelihood, Bishop just went "Hey, would you mind leading the guy with glasses towards the Salamander?"
What do you mean?
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I mean they wont be happy, but it's something they really can't do anything about and Bishop is probably the least hostile of the spies they're going to have in the future.
 
Nervaqus987 said:
No, it really isn't.

She didn't make the pixies do anything. She didn't go "I am your god" or say "Do what I say or I'll smite you."

In all likelihood, Bishop just went "Hey, would you mind leading the guy with glasses towards the Salamander?"
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We will see when the first Pixie says no to Bishop, till then I will stand by my assertion.
 
Vaermina said:
Yea but to do that requires in-depth personal information about the people you want to help.

Though that kind of brings up another point, does anyone think that people will be happy with Bishop messing with the Pixies free will and using them to spy on people?
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Well... I guess my ideas in this are more cynical and paranoid then yours for once. Usurping Pixie free will, or even using Pixie much at all, really isn't the most efficient way after all. ;)
 
Vaermina said:
Because that's what it is, I mean you could try to confuse the matter by saying they are following Bishops orders of their own free will. But that ignores the fact that she made it so that they revere her as a god.

Though that gives us an interesting experiment, use the pixies that were born after the transition and who had no contact with Pixie culture and see if they can refuse or otherwise say no to Bishop or not. If they can that's proof it's cultural and that they have free will, if they can't something will have to be done.

What do you mean?
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Vaermina said:
We will see when the first Pixie says no to Bishop, till then I will stand by my assertion.
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BY your logic, Bishop should avoid being in any kind of contact with the nav pixies since the most innocuous suggestion could be taken as an abuse of power That's idiotic.

Besides, isn't the the Wild pixies that revere Cardinal? The nav pixies are just starting to learn the ropes of free will, you don't consider elder siblingsparents/ giving orders to a young children as gross violations of free will, do you?

Also what happened here is that to get access to the library you have to go through several hoops, including stating your research purposes and you competences, that Bishop made a link between their two application forms isn't surprising.

In short, nothing sinister is going on, just people doing their best to help each other.
 
Where is this whole nonsense mind control idea coming from?

Okay, look, the pixies had this worship/reverence of the World Tree programmed into their characters. This aspect also transitioned over. There is no direct mind control or compulsion existing. If you claim as much you're just making stuff up to make this whole thing out to be darker and edgier than it needs to be.

Edit: And TH has spoken, case closed.
 
Vaermina said:
Does that mean she refuses to do it, or that she does it and feels bad for it?
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Simplest Explanation Vaer. Occam's Razor is an actual logical thing for a reason.

And NO. That doesn't mean we have to have proof in the form of "the first time a Pixie says no to Cardinal." It means YOU have to find proof of the actual mind control going on.

Good luck with that.

You do this a lot Vaer, you come up with your own pessimistic BS theory about how things work, and then you say "THIS IS THE ONLY WAY. YOU HAVE TO PROVE YOUR SIDE."

EDIT: As I mentioned in a later post, I seem to have finally managed to push one too many of Vaer's buttons, as he seems to have me on ignore now. I've tried quoting his stuff and putting in my thoughts on his arguments, but he's not responding at all, so either he has me on ignore, or he's just skipping right over my posts the old fashioned way.
 
Shouryuu said:
Well, in my case, it's the nodding at each other part that bugs me.
Now that I think about it, that act is very suspicious. If the nav pixie was mind controlled, there is no reason for her nor Bishop to nod. Similarly, if it's just the nav pixie doing bishop a favor, bishop would nod but the pixie wouldn't.

But the pixie and bishop nod at each other. This implies the two are working for someone since the only example of a nav pixie we seen so far is so passive and wouldn't do things with out commands.

How's that for conspiracy?
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Maybe Kayaba came along for the ride and is playing mastermind again. :cool:
 
Shouryuu said:
Well, in my case, it's the nodding at each other part that bugs me.
Now that I think about it, that act is very suspicious. If the nav pixie was mind controlled, there is no reason for her nor Bishop to nod. Similarly, if it's just the nav pixie doing bishop a favor, bishop would nod but the pixie wouldn't.

But the pixie and bishop nod at each other. This implies the two are working for someone since the only example of a nav pixie we seen so far is so passive and wouldn't do things with out commands.

How's that for conspiracy?
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You're mystifying me the same way conspiracy theorists do.

They nodded at each other because they intentionally brought together two kindred spirits that could help each other deal with their past actions and what to do in the future.

It was very well done, both in how TH conceived it and the pixie and Cardinal executed it in-story.
 
Inverness said:
You're mystifying me the same way conspiracy theorists do.

They nodded at each other because they intentionally brought together two kindred spirits that could help each other deal with their past actions and what to do in the future.
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I think you mean they nodded to each-other because they saved the books from a dire ink threat. ;)
It was very well done, both in how TH conceived it and the pixie and Cardinal executed it in-story.
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Yup the nod was very well done, it was the epitome of nods. :D
 
Aranfan said:
Who was the person in the snip and why do people think they may have been mindcontroling the pixies?
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Probably Bishop, lesser Avatar of the Cardinal system. She's been bandied about in the previous threads as a possible character.

Ignore the mind control bit, it's all bullshit by certain parties who want the author to rewrite everything to grimderp levels. Or bullshit intended to troll. Either way, it's completely without value and best ignored.
 
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