Biigoh
Tanuki
- Location
- Tanukia
Actually, you can make intelligent golems with the use of earth stone from what I understand. It's what the Alviss are.TheLastOne said:
Halkegenia Online Thread 6 - //"Pixies!"\\
- Thread starter Triggerhappy
- Start date
TheLastOne
Person of impeccable tastes (for destruction)
Yes, and do we ever see them used by anyone but the Mind of God? Because their lack of use makes it clear that there are some serious limitations there that Miss Mind gets around, or that they're so expensive to make that only Royalty can afford there use.biigoh said:
Keep in mind anything that requires Mage Artisans to manufacture isn't going to go down in price.
Biigoh
Tanuki
- Location
- Tanukia
You mean the fact that they're made with earth stone and thus would be expensive by default. But they're effectively intelligent automotus thinking golems. So, kind of yeah... Halkegania has magical androids in ZnT canon.TheLastOne said:
LGear
Secret Society BLANKET
The Academy has multiple copies around. There's a reason the hall the students dine in is called the Alviss Dining Hall...TheLastOne said:
Baka-Tsuki Zero no Tsukaima Vol 1 said:
The industrial revolution actually increased the amount of time the lower classes worked, not decreased it. Agricultural labourers tended to actually work fewer hours than modern workers, on average, although they worked more during the harvest. It's just that their production is so much greater in an industrial context that they can actually support whole classes of people who don't do things that are necessarily directly productive in the short term but have immense long term implications.Archons said:
mdkcde
"Emotions are prohibited"
- Location
- Nani Sore?
The academy has Alviss on the "Alviss Dinning Hall" they become alive at night and dance.TheLastOne said:
That's true, but the people who no longer have to work on those farms will be working more hours, not less, in industrial jobs. That's true even if the Fae start off with modern eight hour work days, because eight hours per day is longer than the usual peasant worked, as a yearly average (more, potentially lots more, at harvest time and planting season, less in winter and between planting and harvest). The people who benefit in terms of using those 'freed' hours to do something other than creating enough food to survive are going to be mostly people who were better off anyway.Archons said:
NecroMac
Shiroe vi Akihabara Commands you...
You don't need independent nor intelligent golems to make good use of them. After all Computers are not intelligent as well as they're not independent.biigoh said:
All you need is to have a computer programmer way of thinking.
Golems works as basic computer, that understand basic human language commands.
All that is restraining them is their memory. That is a number of commands (or their total size) that golems can remember.
Example of programming for a golem:
function gather_strawberries(point here_start, point here_end, item Strawberry){
foreach(plant in workplace(here_start,here_end)){
foreach(strawberry in plant){
if(Check_if_item_is_ripe_and_without_worms(Strawberry) == true){
Pick_from_plant(Strawberry);
}}}}
- Location
- Oblivion
Not really, given the golem village and alvis dining hall.TheLastOne said:
The problem is more then likely production related which will be something that is solved by the mass production techniques that the Fae are about to introduce. And that's really going to screw over the commoners since the only people needed for the golems upkeep will be mages.
LGear
Secret Society BLANKET
The best places where mass-produced golems can make a difference is in places where small, dedicated menial jobs are required that require repetition rather than general quality, like an assembly line. They'd very much take the place of factory robots until said either said factory robots are built, or the golems can be made to the same level. It'll allow for less people to be working in said assembly lines compared to the numbers required in the dawn of our assembly lines.
In fact, if any of the Fae history buffs remembers what the very first assembly lines were used for, then they'd know that introducing said concept would be very, very relevant to Tristain at the moment: the very first assembly line was used to create muskets afterall in the 19th century, although it won't be popularized until Henry Ford got into it in the 20th century.
In fact, if any of the Fae history buffs remembers what the very first assembly lines were used for, then they'd know that introducing said concept would be very, very relevant to Tristain at the moment: the very first assembly line was used to create muskets afterall in the 19th century, although it won't be popularized until Henry Ford got into it in the 20th century.
- Location
- Oblivion
So exactly what jobs are going to be left for the commoners?LGear said:
Because the only ones I can think of would be in the personal service sector where the people are as much eye candy as actual workers. And I expect those to only last until the advent of the humanoid pixie golems and nobles realizing that they don't need a pixie to run them.
- Location
- Oblivion
The problem with rifling in the time period wasn't a lack of knowledge since the technique had been known since the 1500s or the time needed to do it. But the fact that in that time period barrel fouling left behind by the combustion of the black powder ruined the weapon.Crate said:
NecroMac
Shiroe vi Akihabara Commands you...
It's not like You can create golems in same manners as we create today's day machines. You need a certian level mage with appropriate skill to create and oversee them. After all they work fueled by mage mana.Vaermina said:
2nd point is how long does normal mage can keep activated X number of golems?
Also Current world somehow works without robots in every factory so jobs for commoners will be always to be find.
And when they get a proper education, they can be used just like every one else to work on equal terms as faires in less physical oriented fields ( for e.g in medicine, teaching or crafting [There is nowhere said that human cannot become a fea's apprentice])
Also with advent of more and more powerful guns it will be hard for mages to keep their regime over the commoners.
Not even Karin is able to block a sniper bullet when her guard is down.
Modern firearms might equalize a gap between commoners, nobles and fairies.
This was discuss before, and I'm pretty certain it wasn't black powder that was the limiting factor, but rather that they hadn't thought of a bullet type that could be quickly loaded in to a Rifled Gun until the 19th century. This one to be specific I believe, as one can read this was still from the era of gunpowder weapons as well.Vaermina said:
- Location
- Oblivion
We are talking about the self powering golems that don't need a mage to provide them with willpower and can run off of stored commands.NecroMac said:
Medicine is out, it would be too risky to have people without magic doing anything in the field when magic is available.
Teaching will be handled by mages because the only ones doing any work that needs an advanced education will be the mages.
As for crafting good luck matching the abilities of a group that has at a minimum double your physical abilities and four to five times your life span.
But they will be able to enchant a ring or other magical item to create a barrier that blocks sniper bullet.
On top off which you are assuming that the Nobles or the Fae will allow those commoners to have modern firearms. Given that the nobles like their power, and the Fae are like 95%+ Japanese that is very much in doubt.
- Location
- Little Rock, AR
pretty sure eart stone provide the power. that's why their autonomous.NecroMac said:
Nix Medicine and crafting. Poison resistance nad magical aid for medicine. and magic crafter hax.
Those are still a long time coming. Along with the techniques to prevent them form being melted in hand. As well the fae brought something in to reset the situation ancient armor and stuff.
And in general Mages will always be superior fighters to commoners. That's just a fact. The gap though smaller will always exist especially if magitech advances.
- Location
- Oblivion
Directly from the wiki.Quickshot0 said:
On a side note and this is not directed at you in particular Quickshot, I am getting very tired of being one of the few people who actually fact check things here. I mean seriously people it takes like 10 seconds to type what is being talked about into your search bar.
- Location
- Oblivion
I assume you're thinking of the tank rounds that were used to kill the super golems.NecroMechanoid said:
The problem with those wasn't that the projectile's were able to pierce the barrier it was that the barriers were only designed to stop magic. Instead they were expecting the thick solid steal armor to protect the golems from cannon shot and the like, but they didn't count on HE and Explosive tank rounds.
- Location
- Little Rock, AR
That's just logic.NecroMechanoid said:
Mages aren't humans who exhange something for magic. There humans plus magic and supernatural senses.
There ain't a damn thing in the world that a commoner can do that a Mage can't but there are a whole lot of things that a mage can do that a commoner will never be able to do without aid and even then without half the finesse of a mage.
mdkcde
"Emotions are prohibited"
- Location
- Nani Sore?
So you have been to ff.net lately then? That is where most of that attitude is concentrated. Especially in the fics by the subtly named "mr I hate znt nobles kill them"Agelastus said:
In regards to both magical medicine and magical "golems make golems that make golems that put all commoners everywhere out of work!!!!".. Please remember that time is a limiting factor for mages. Every "magi-tech" task you want to automate or do away with a scientific approach will require a mage. It will also require that mage's time. How many hours per day would a mage have to spend building golems or using healing magic on someone with allergies. If there is a better solution, like anti-histamine pills for said allergies, people will go for it. In TH's HalO it is already mentioned that broken bones can be fused back together in a few hours. That is one Fae healer sitting over someone for a large chunk of their day. My understanding is that Halkegenian mages have the same time constraints.
Not to mention what happens if someone has a bad break in, say, the ribcage where they need to piece the ribs back together. (Note I assume magic + medicine will be much, much better than either alone..)
If magic was the end-all-be-all that everyone seems to be arguing it is the mages would already be running the entire world with their magi-tech armies of Cylons - er, cough, golems doing everything for them. Since it is not in the LN nor in TH's HalO I have to assume limiting factors, like time or expense, exist. The introduction of "Fae-tech" real-world solutions to some problems Halkegenia has at the moment won't immediately make these problems just disappear. It might make them easier to overcome or work around, but it will not just erase them.
The biggest "commodity" produced by an industrial revolution is manpower. Fewer people have to work on a farm, so the extra workers can be put to use doing something else. If the nobles want to remain in power (and the Fae share their history with said nobles) they will begin putting those people to work doing other things. If they don't, they will have a lot of unemployed, starving, and annoyed people running around. That does not lead to a stable government - or a stable position for the nobility.
And, say what you want, most noble families that last are not run by idiots.
Please remember that time is a limiting factor for mages. Every "magi-tech" task you want to automate or do away with a scientific approach will require a mage. It will also require that mage's time. How many hours per day would a mage have to spend building golems or using healing magic on someone with allergies. If there is a better solution, like anti-histamine pills for said allergies, people will go for it. In TH's HalO it is already mentioned that broken bones can be fused back together in a few hours. That is one Fae healer sitting over someone for a large chunk of their day. My understanding is that Halkegenian mages have the same time constraints.Not to mention what happens if someone has a bad break in, say, the ribcage where they need to piece the ribs back together. (Note I assume magic + medicine will be much, much better than either alone..)
If magic was the end-all-be-all that everyone seems to be arguing it is the mages would already be running the entire world with their magi-tech armies of Cylons - er, cough, golems doing everything for them. Since it is not in the LN nor in TH's HalO I have to assume limiting factors, like time or expense, exist. The introduction of "Fae-tech" real-world solutions to some problems Halkegenia has at the moment won't immediately make these problems just disappear. It might make them easier to overcome or work around, but it will not just erase them.
The biggest "commodity" produced by an industrial revolution is manpower. Fewer people have to work on a farm, so the extra workers can be put to use doing something else. If the nobles want to remain in power (and the Fae share their history with said nobles) they will begin putting those people to work doing other things. If they don't, they will have a lot of unemployed, starving, and annoyed people running around. That does not lead to a stable government - or a stable position for the nobility.
And, say what you want, most noble families that last are not run by idiots.
NecroMac
Shiroe vi Akihabara Commands you...
My bad, thought about normal golems.Vaermina said:
Back to situation of Commoners in Magical world of Fairies and Nobles.
Yes i know that Commoners are pretty much screwed one way or the other, but while they are the weakest of the three they are the biggest group. So it would be wise to utilize them as best as is possible, even if fairy can do this job 2 times better.
I don't know popper proportions that are in Tristan but it looks something like that in terms of numbers:
Commoners >>>>>>>> Nobels >>>> Faires(~60K).
And with medicine I meant that there are only so many water mages. And you don't need a mage for every single injury or sickness. Leaving time of mages and their magic for the most serious cases.
There is also a problem if there are diseases with magic immunity?
As for crafting:
Not for every crafting profession you need to have super human strength (for e.g tailoring).
Keep in mind that there is only x number of fairy crafters, and so many of possible commoners that can be used to improve productivity.
The thing is that commoners don't need to do a whole work. Just like in current world when you create a computer, certain sub-parts are created at different factories and then shipped to the one that put them together.
Similar strategy can be used in crafting, where apprentices are creating everything that is of less importance leaving for the Master to glue it all(Something of this kind is surely already in use in some big crafting guilds in whole Halk).
And who knows, a Commoner might happened to be the best and take the title of the Master when old one retire. Because you know, while brute strength might might give you an edge, it doesn't mean that you will surely win.
1st. I'm not talking about a "Commoners civil war"Vaermina said:
. I just wanted to point out that with modern arms commoner become a real threat to the mages.After all its easier to get a commoner(or even a mage) and teach him how to aim(need another person that knows how to aim) with a weapon, than get a mage(must find a guy that is born with magic) and drill him to become a proper knight
2nd. How much magic power do you need to stop a round from AK-47, what if it's bullets are magically enchanted? (power of guns on mages is also dictated by what will TH say)
3nd. Yes i know that it would be hard to get hold of such weapons, but it's not like they will suddenly stop using commoners in army, especially when a commoner with a modern gun is a real threat for a mage or fairy, am i right? Also with monsters from Alfheim around, I imagine villagers have at least some kind of protection in form of "police" or self armed squad to keep them at bay until the proper forces would come.
Xexilf
Oblivion Sempiternum Daemonis
And now, for no reason whatsoever, Zombie Aki D&D stat blocks.
Why did i write this? No idea, i have too much time. I doubt anyone would ever use them for anything.
Are they well made? no, its more taking a few base pointers and making the rest up as i went along.
Are they accurate for what we saw of aki? Sorta, please point out any glaring errors. Esspeccially Feats and Skills gave me somewhat trouble and are somewhat random or nonexistant respectively.
Second is for hypothetical free aki.
Zombie Aki
Medium Undead/Construct/Fae(?), 10th lvl Fighter-ish
Hit Dice: 10d10+20 (75hp)
Initiative: +5
Speed: 30 ft. fly 80ft. (average)
Armor Class: 15 (+3 Dex), touch 13, flat-footed 12
Base Attack/Grapple: +12/+12
Attack: +12 melee (1d8+2/19-20, Longsword)
Full Attack: +12/+7 melee (1d8+2/19-20, Longsword)
Space/Reach: 5 ft./5 ft.
Special Attacks: -
Special Qualities: Andravandi Zombie Traits, Fae Traits, Regeneration 5, Light of Cromwell, SAO Survivor
Saves: Fort +9, Ref +6, Will +4
Abilities: Str 14, Dex 16, Con 14, Int 08, Wis 12, Cha 16
Skills: Intimidate +19, Knowledge(VRMMORPG) +14
Feats: Combat Reflexes, Dodge, Improved Unarmed Strike, Mobility, Persuasive, Power Attack
Treasure: None
Alignment: Chaotic Neutral, Controlled
Andravandi Zombie Traits: Immune to poison, disease, energy drain. Not subject to critical hits, inflicted nonlethal damage, or death from massive damage, sucessful death effects deal nonlethal dmage equaling current hitpoints. Regeneration (see below). Does not age or need to eat, sleep or breathe.
Fae Traits:
Fly 80ft. (average) (Su), not functional underground, needs to rest after 15min.
Potential to learn ALO Magic.
Regeneration 5 (Su): Takes normal damage from fire.
Dispel magic effects targetted for this purpose deal lethal damage as the number of the dispel check. Disjunction or Epic dispel effects force a Fort save against complete death.
Lethal damage and ability damage heal at a rate of 5 per hour.
Lost bodyparts can be instantly reattached, otherwise they grow back over the span of 1 hour.
When reduced to unconsciousness, remains must be dealt 30 magic fire, 30 combined dispel check or 60 nonmagical fire damage to ensure destruction. Any remaining body parts must similairily be destroyed.
Light of Cromwell (Ex): Immune to fear and negative Morale effects, -2 Int.
SAOSurvivor(Ex): Proficiency with all simple and martial weapons as well as light and medium armor. Knowledge (VRMMORPG) +5
Equipped with leather armor and longsword.
Free Zombie Aki
Medium Undead/Construct/Fae(?), 12th lvl Fighter-ish
Hit Dice: 12d10+24 (90hp)
Initiative: +5
Speed: 30 ft. fly 80ft. (average)
Armor Class: 15 (+3 Dex), touch 13, flat-footed 12
Base Attack/Grapple: +14/+14
Attack: +14 melee (1d8+2/19-20, Longsword)
Full Attack: +14/+9/+4 melee (1d8+2/19-20, Longsword)
Space/Reach: 5 ft./5 ft.
Special Attacks: -
Special Qualities: Andravandi Zombie Traits, Fae Traits, Fire Resistance 5, Regeneration 5, SAO Survivor
Saves: Fort +10, Ref +7, Will +5
Abilities: Str 14, Dex 16, Con 14, Int 10, Wis 12, Cha 16
Skills: Intimidate +21, Knowledge(VRMMORPG) +16
Feats: Combat Reflexes, Dodge, Improved Unarmed Strike, Mobility, Persuasive, Power Attack
Treasure: None
Alignment: Chaotic Good
Andravandi Zombie Traits: Immune to poison, disease, energy drain. Not subject to critical hits, inflicted nonlethal damage, or death from massive damage, sucessful death effects deal nonlethal dmage equaling current hitpoints. Regeneration (see below). Does not age or need to eat, sleep or breathe.
Fae Traits:
Fly 80ft. (average) (Su), not functional underground, needs to rest after 15min.
Potential to learn ALO Magic.
Regeneration 5 (Su): Takes normal damage from fire.
Dispel magic effects targetted for this purpose deal nonlethal damage as the number of the dispel check. Disjunction or Epic dispel effects force a Fort save, failure deals nonlethal damage to 1 hp over unconciousness and stuns for 1 min.
Lethal damage and ability damage heal at a rate of 5 per hour.
Lost bodyparts can be instantly reattached, otherwise they grow back over the span of 1 hour.
When reduced to unconsciousness, remains must be dealt 30 magic fire, 60 combined dispel check or 60 nonmagical fire damage to ensure destruction. Any remaining body parts must similairily be destroyed.
SAOSurvivor(Ex): Proficiency with all simple and martial weapons as well as light and medium armor. Knowledge (VRMMORPG) +5
Equipped with leather armor and longsword.
Before anyone accuses me of making her overpowered, shes really not. Direct brutal damage should work well. Shes missing some of the standard undead immunities too, and her saves arent all that great.
Thoughts, Criticisms, Ideas?
Why did i write this? No idea, i have too much time. I doubt anyone would ever use them for anything.
Are they well made? no, its more taking a few base pointers and making the rest up as i went along.
Are they accurate for what we saw of aki? Sorta, please point out any glaring errors. Esspeccially Feats and Skills gave me somewhat trouble and are somewhat random or nonexistant respectively.
Second is for hypothetical free aki.
Zombie Aki
Medium Undead/Construct/Fae(?), 10th lvl Fighter-ish
Hit Dice: 10d10+20 (75hp)
Initiative: +5
Speed: 30 ft. fly 80ft. (average)
Armor Class: 15 (+3 Dex), touch 13, flat-footed 12
Base Attack/Grapple: +12/+12
Attack: +12 melee (1d8+2/19-20, Longsword)
Full Attack: +12/+7 melee (1d8+2/19-20, Longsword)
Space/Reach: 5 ft./5 ft.
Special Attacks: -
Special Qualities: Andravandi Zombie Traits, Fae Traits, Regeneration 5, Light of Cromwell, SAO Survivor
Saves: Fort +9, Ref +6, Will +4
Abilities: Str 14, Dex 16, Con 14, Int 08, Wis 12, Cha 16
Skills: Intimidate +19, Knowledge(VRMMORPG) +14
Feats: Combat Reflexes, Dodge, Improved Unarmed Strike, Mobility, Persuasive, Power Attack
Treasure: None
Alignment: Chaotic Neutral, Controlled
Andravandi Zombie Traits: Immune to poison, disease, energy drain. Not subject to critical hits, inflicted nonlethal damage, or death from massive damage, sucessful death effects deal nonlethal dmage equaling current hitpoints. Regeneration (see below). Does not age or need to eat, sleep or breathe.
Fae Traits:
Fly 80ft. (average) (Su), not functional underground, needs to rest after 15min.
Potential to learn ALO Magic.
Regeneration 5 (Su): Takes normal damage from fire.
Dispel magic effects targetted for this purpose deal lethal damage as the number of the dispel check. Disjunction or Epic dispel effects force a Fort save against complete death.
Lethal damage and ability damage heal at a rate of 5 per hour.
Lost bodyparts can be instantly reattached, otherwise they grow back over the span of 1 hour.
When reduced to unconsciousness, remains must be dealt 30 magic fire, 30 combined dispel check or 60 nonmagical fire damage to ensure destruction. Any remaining body parts must similairily be destroyed.
Light of Cromwell (Ex): Immune to fear and negative Morale effects, -2 Int.
SAOSurvivor(Ex): Proficiency with all simple and martial weapons as well as light and medium armor. Knowledge (VRMMORPG) +5
Equipped with leather armor and longsword.
Free Zombie Aki
Medium Undead/Construct/Fae(?), 12th lvl Fighter-ish
Hit Dice: 12d10+24 (90hp)
Initiative: +5
Speed: 30 ft. fly 80ft. (average)
Armor Class: 15 (+3 Dex), touch 13, flat-footed 12
Base Attack/Grapple: +14/+14
Attack: +14 melee (1d8+2/19-20, Longsword)
Full Attack: +14/+9/+4 melee (1d8+2/19-20, Longsword)
Space/Reach: 5 ft./5 ft.
Special Attacks: -
Special Qualities: Andravandi Zombie Traits, Fae Traits, Fire Resistance 5, Regeneration 5, SAO Survivor
Saves: Fort +10, Ref +7, Will +5
Abilities: Str 14, Dex 16, Con 14, Int 10, Wis 12, Cha 16
Skills: Intimidate +21, Knowledge(VRMMORPG) +16
Feats: Combat Reflexes, Dodge, Improved Unarmed Strike, Mobility, Persuasive, Power Attack
Treasure: None
Alignment: Chaotic Good
Andravandi Zombie Traits: Immune to poison, disease, energy drain. Not subject to critical hits, inflicted nonlethal damage, or death from massive damage, sucessful death effects deal nonlethal dmage equaling current hitpoints. Regeneration (see below). Does not age or need to eat, sleep or breathe.
Fae Traits:
Fly 80ft. (average) (Su), not functional underground, needs to rest after 15min.
Potential to learn ALO Magic.
Regeneration 5 (Su): Takes normal damage from fire.
Dispel magic effects targetted for this purpose deal nonlethal damage as the number of the dispel check. Disjunction or Epic dispel effects force a Fort save, failure deals nonlethal damage to 1 hp over unconciousness and stuns for 1 min.
Lethal damage and ability damage heal at a rate of 5 per hour.
Lost bodyparts can be instantly reattached, otherwise they grow back over the span of 1 hour.
When reduced to unconsciousness, remains must be dealt 30 magic fire, 60 combined dispel check or 60 nonmagical fire damage to ensure destruction. Any remaining body parts must similairily be destroyed.
SAOSurvivor(Ex): Proficiency with all simple and martial weapons as well as light and medium armor. Knowledge (VRMMORPG) +5
Equipped with leather armor and longsword.
Before anyone accuses me of making her overpowered, shes really not. Direct brutal damage should work well. Shes missing some of the standard undead immunities too, and her saves arent all that great.
Thoughts, Criticisms, Ideas?
mdkcde
"Emotions are prohibited"
- Location
- Nani Sore?
So you have been to ff.net lately then? That is where most of that attitude is concentrated. Especially in the fics by the subtly named "mr I hate znt nobles kill them"Agelastus said:
- Location
- Little Rock, AR
Actually all magi can learn spells of every element. They just tend to specialize by affinity.skaianDestiny said: