jwolfe_beta
Semi Genre-Savvy Overlord
- Location
- Canada
Yup. TH has 2-3 more epilogue segments to write and this arc should be over.an NPC said:
Halkegenia Online Thread 6 - //"Pixies!"\\
- Thread starter Triggerhappy
- Start date
- Location
- Somewhere
Uh...no. In Halkeginia, magic means that commoners can't revolt without being slaughtered. If you want this confirmed, ask Flere, but it's been brought up in previous threads.Anzer'ke said:
As for co-ops...might I remind you that most workers don't know anything about running a business? There's a reason people go to college to learn how. And it's doubly true for Halkeginia, where the average commoner isn't educated at all.
I suggest you get yourself a copy of Built to Last. It's an excellent overview of how to establish companies that A)care about their customers, B)Care about their employees (one of the things it recommends is managers getting to know their employees personally), and C)last.
zero_traveler
Revolver Ocelot
- Location
- Revolver Ocelot
I'll admit My ZnT-fu is weak, as what I know personally (IE: what I haven't learned from here at spacebattles) comes from watching the anime, and only the first two seasons at that, but I was pretty sure that was why he was "Founder" Brimir. Everyone at least believed he created the Four elements system.Zeful said:
And I 'know' (Meaning, Based only on the information I myself have) there's a lot of talk about Magic Before his Four element system being spirit magic.
So help me out, man.
Aranfan
Team Plasma Grunt
I said earlier that democratically managed firms becoming dominant would be a good way to mitigate the worst abuses of the industrial revolution. The best way I can see for that is to have the group that Louise's father is investing in be a worker co-operative, and that they plan to set aside a fair portion of their profits into a fund to invest in other co-operatives. Solidarity and all that rot.Triggerhappy said:
Aranfan
Team Plasma Grunt
Indeed, dumb workers can't figure it out. Pay no attention to the Carnegie behind the curtain.LockedKeye said:
Brimir creating the magic system of humans is false information used as propaganda, used by both the Church and the Nobility to secure their positions. Brimir was actually born into a tribe of magic users. Spirit magic predates even them.zero_traveler said:
Nearly all the evidence for this has disappeared, as it happened 6000 years ago. Only the Void Mages and the Void Familiars have access to remaining evidence, and as revealing such a thing weakens their own position, you don't see them blabbing about it.
- Location
- Somewhere
Right, right. Do away with competition. That thing that forces companies to produce goods efficiently and without waste, offer competitively low prices, and drives economic growth through the incentive to innovate.Aranfan said:
Congratulations, you didn't actually respond to my argument. Care to try again?Aranfan said:
zero_traveler
Revolver Ocelot
- Location
- Revolver Ocelot
Ah. see, this is stuff I don't know, thank you, I retract my earlier statement that started this line of questioning.Gore17 said:
Aranfan
Team Plasma Grunt
Companies invest in other companies all the time. There is nothing in my proposal that would get rid of competition.LockedKeye said:
You don't need to go to college to run a successful business, though I have no doubt it helps. People are not generally incompetent, as proved by the fact that we haven't blown ourselves up yet. They will be able to learn on the job.LockedKeye said:
Aranfan
Team Plasma Grunt
This is a fresh start. We are talking about ways to do things differently with a second chance. It is entirely feasible.kojiro kakita said:
Edit: If you think it's going to stifle competition then have them set aside some of their profits for starting capital for an investment bank that caters to co-operatives instead. That way the social infrastructure for a thriving co-operative sector is set up.
- Location
- Oblivion
Do remember that the current Fae leaders made that agreement without any input from the Fae populace. We don't even know if the general people have even read it yet.Khaos said:
So while the leaders may have agreed to those terms there is a huge difference from that and being able to enforce those agreements with the general populace.
- Location
- Somewhere
Conceded. I misunderstood your original post.Aranfan said:
Edit: or maybe not...
You're assuming that everyone has equal aptitudes for business. It's also very inefficient. There's a reason why there aren't any big companies that are co-ops. Profit sharing? Yes, but doesn't make a company a co-op. Flat hierarchy? Yes, but also not a co-op. There are much better ways to go, which is why I recommend reading Built to Last.
Khaos
Baguette, wine and cheese
I simply don't see the Faction leaders and their counsels having been foolish enough to have included clauses that would have been totally unacceptable by the general populace. After all, finding acceptable compromise was the major point of the chapters dealing with the treaty, remember?Vaermina said:
There will be outliers, but the terms of the treaty are acceptable for the large majority of the population if somewhat unpalatable at some points. Which also means that it's enforceable.
Aranfan
Team Plasma Grunt
Mondragon is pretty damn huge, and plenty successful. Co-ops exist, and are successful. Hell, even in the midst of the Spanish Civil War co-operatives worked.LockedKeye said:
I am not against a competitive market. I just want that competitive market to be filled with democracies, instead of absolute monarchies and unelected oligarchies.
Aranfan
Team Plasma Grunt
But the Fae have the tech and the knowhow.kojiro kakita said:
It's a decade from now, TH could easily have Japanese union membership shoot up.kojiro kakita said:
We discussed a Industrial Revolution?an NPC said:
The things I miss while looking for the next Author post.
jwolfe_beta
Semi Genre-Savvy Overlord
- Location
- Canada
From what TH has said Arc 2 would be more politics based with the war with Albion in the background.Inverness said:
- Location
- Oblivion
That assume that it was one of the things that the Nobles gave them a choice about. Given the massive fight the Fae would have had to even get their laws to hold sway when inside their cities I suspect that would have been one of the things they would have had to give ground on.Khaos said:
Aranfan
Team Plasma Grunt
There are any number of possible ways it could happen. Trends change all the time. I don't know enough about the current japanese economy to propose a mechanism, but just because the capitalists are winning the class war doesn't mean the workers won't be fighting it with renewed vigor in ten years time.kojiro kakita said:
Khaos
Baguette, wine and cheese
Then it was deemed acceptable in exchange of their own safety.Vaermina said:
If it was truly unacceptable from the Fae pov, the Fae would have maintained their position, while they aren't exactly negotiating from a position of force, the nobles have no interest in dealing with Fae roaming in their lands either.
- Location
- Oblivion
It was deemed an acceptable trade by the leaders when nothing more then a thought experiment. That doesn't mean it will be deemed acceptable by the population when they have actual people begging them not to send them back.Khaos said:
Khaos
Baguette, wine and cheese
First, I think it's been clearly established that the leaders aren't morons who can't see further than their nose, not to mention that for such an thorny matter, they'd have had the wisdom to consult first. You seem to have missed the core of HalkO, it's about people rising to the occasion.Vaermina said:
Second, the specifics of the treaty have never been established by TH, it's fully possible that a compromise has been found.
And finally, if there was a mistake was made in the original treaty despite all the precautions taken, what's likely to happen is "let's renegotiate this shit and add an amendment".
Aranfan
Team Plasma Grunt
Fuck it. TriggerHappy asked for ways to avoid the worst of the Industrial Revolution. I gave my answer, an answer that didn't rely on a strong central government and could thus be implemented now instead of decades later after things have already set themselves into a course that has momentum behind it. The worst excesses and abuses of unrestrained capitalism happen because the capitalists and managers saw their workers as merely another tool or machine to make use of. Democratic workplaces stops that in it's tracks, nips it in the bud before it can really start. The central state is too weak at present to have effective regulation and enforcement, especially with the war effort, which early industry will be geared to feed.
I have given my proposed solution, we know from our own real world that co-ops can be successful businesses, so it's not impossible. I shall leave the matter to triggerhappy and say no more on the issue.
Goodnight.
I have given my proposed solution, we know from our own real world that co-ops can be successful businesses, so it's not impossible. I shall leave the matter to triggerhappy and say no more on the issue.
Goodnight.
TheLastOne
Person of impeccable tastes (for destruction)
To be perfectly honest, I would expect the fae states to devolve to unelected oligarchies, actually, with a veneer of democracy on top. The big important fae of the moment will stay big and important in the coming days, even if new city leaders are elected (they aren't really faction leaders any more, being more responsible to the faction city and everyone who lives in it. That will mostly be their old factions, but not universally). The Tristain royalty and nobility will be familiar with them, and they will have made contacts and started internal organizations that will continue to look to them for leadership.
Even after Sakuya steps down from leading the Sylph city, Henretta will look to Sakuya for advise in dealing with the Sylph, and the Sylph will look to Sakuya for advise in dealing with the Royals. Both will ask her to sometimes put in a polite word with the other.
Far enough in the future... and you're seeing the founding of the first big major political families. Even if it's not written down anywhere, it will be like the Kennedys, or the Bushs, to steal an American example. Families that go back in politics, and even if it's unofficial, remain the unelected movers and shakers. We'll probobly see something like the Rail Barons pop up. And hey, this time they might be literal Barons.
On the other hand, such thing will take time to develop, probobly beyond the scope of the story.
Things will improve for people, but that doesn't mean that it will improve for everyone. Some of the things that will be introduced will actually destroy lives and livelihoods. That they ultimately help more people won't even be a cold comfort, made worse by the fact that that harm will mostly happen out of expedience, rather then necessity.
Even after Sakuya steps down from leading the Sylph city, Henretta will look to Sakuya for advise in dealing with the Sylph, and the Sylph will look to Sakuya for advise in dealing with the Royals. Both will ask her to sometimes put in a polite word with the other.
Far enough in the future... and you're seeing the founding of the first big major political families. Even if it's not written down anywhere, it will be like the Kennedys, or the Bushs, to steal an American example. Families that go back in politics, and even if it's unofficial, remain the unelected movers and shakers. We'll probobly see something like the Rail Barons pop up. And hey, this time they might be literal Barons.
On the other hand, such thing will take time to develop, probobly beyond the scope of the story.
Things will improve for people, but that doesn't mean that it will improve for everyone. Some of the things that will be introduced will actually destroy lives and livelihoods. That they ultimately help more people won't even be a cold comfort, made worse by the fact that that harm will mostly happen out of expedience, rather then necessity.