Really not sure why people are obsessed with punishment. He's a ghost, he's harmless. Unless he isn't, in which he'd make a great GM.
Halkegenia Online. Thread 2!
- Thread starter Triggerhappy
- Start date
GeshronTyler
Kleiner Giftzwerg
Thanks Trigger, for the Omake. Had a good chuckle all around, especially with the "cat nip" bit.
I've been thinking over Fae vs. combat airship combat, and the following points come to mind. Fae are probably best used in boarding actions of ships already damaged by combat, or singletons. Assaulting an airship not already heavily invested in battle, without surprise would be quite the risky proposition, and numerous casualties would have to be expected. I think this, because competent airship captains would be prepared to combat flying mount mages, and as has been mentioned before, grapeshot and canister are definately in the Halkegenian arsenal. A good captain/gun captain will hold their fire until they can basically see the "white of their target's eyes", and the storm of shot would simply be murderous to a large formation- of Fae in range. Of course, there's still the question of what kind of armor and buffs /enchanted equipment any theoretical Fae assaulters may have, but I do have a hard time picturing anything standing up to something like a grapeshot ball at close range. Stern and bow vectors would have less weapons (though bow and chase armaments where often of the largest on the ship in RL), the field of fire won't be very adjustable due to the weight of the guns, and the necessary recoil paths. There's also the reloading cycle to take into account. Cannons will almost always be fired in salvos/broadsides, since they are fairly inaccurate, as to provide the greatest shock effect. This means that once fired, there should be a window of opportunity. Vulnerable vectors will also be those blocked by the ships rigging. Close in/anti boarding weapons would be small swivel guns, which would also be fairly slow-firing, but could send a nasty cloud of buckshot/shrapnel into any boarders face. Another possibility would be carronades on the upper decks, stubbier cannons that are shorter ranged, but allow for a larger caliber in return (for the same weight of the gun basically). They still have the same requirements regarding recoil paths though, so something like heavy ship weaponry would almost have to be set up to fire at not more than 45 degrees, so as not too but too much strain on the ship's frame from the recoil. Using something like mortars to cover the verticals isn't going to be to practical. Mortars in this day and age are just as heavy as a cannon if not heavier.
Depending on if airships are generally supposed to be amphibious will affect what kind of weapons are carried on the ventral aspect. Since gunports are sort non-conducive to keeping water out of a ship.
I think an advantage the Fae would have is speed and manuverability. The clouds of gunsmoke from battle, let alone normal clouds could provide cover for an approach. Also bad weather (not too bad). Fae would murderize merchant ships, on the other hand. If privateers or warships have Fae on board, enemy shipping is going to be crying. Aside from their combat spells, Fae could also carry one shot rocket launchers for black powder rockets (and maybe a reload or two). Pretty darn primitive, and probably about as dangerous to their weilders as the enemy. Rocket artillery of the early modern period on earth were notoriously fickle and inaccurate. Assuming the Fae find a good vector of attack, attack the sails would be a great tactic to use. I can't help but think that airships are going to be pretty vulnerable to fire, no matter what enchantments are used. Seasoned wood, usually painted and varnished, not too mention tarred cordage/rigging is simply a bonfire waiting to happen. This was true for wooden sailing ships, for all that they were on the ocean or large in land seas. You wouldn't want ship timbers to aborb water either, because that would affect stability, and allow rotting.
Some further thoughts about have airships might be "sailed". Assuming the windstones are used to provide a kind of "anti-gravity", or actual lift by causing wind currents to fill the sails (which would make for some pretty nasty slipstream around the hulls, so probably not), the inertia of a several hundred ton hull is still there. So, while a lighter-than-air ship without propulsion is completely at the mercy of the wind, an airship I guess woulld have a period of time until the force of the wind on hull and sails overcame the ships inertia. Since sails are basically airfoils (i.e. wind blowing over the surface causes a force more or less perpendicular to the sails orientation), there is in fact a way for a ship to move forward even without wind. Adjusting the amount of lift being generated by the windstones, causing the ship to either gain or lose altitude, will cause air to move across the sails surface. Properly adjusted, the lift generated will allow the ship to have controlled movement. If the windstones are generating "anti-gravity/levitation" and a ship-local wind vector simultaneously, it becomes even simpler to use the sails to control the direction of travel.
I've been thinking over Fae vs. combat airship combat, and the following points come to mind. Fae are probably best used in boarding actions of ships already damaged by combat, or singletons. Assaulting an airship not already heavily invested in battle, without surprise would be quite the risky proposition, and numerous casualties would have to be expected. I think this, because competent airship captains would be prepared to combat flying mount mages, and as has been mentioned before, grapeshot and canister are definately in the Halkegenian arsenal. A good captain/gun captain will hold their fire until they can basically see the "white of their target's eyes", and the storm of shot would simply be murderous to a large formation- of Fae in range. Of course, there's still the question of what kind of armor and buffs /enchanted equipment any theoretical Fae assaulters may have, but I do have a hard time picturing anything standing up to something like a grapeshot ball at close range. Stern and bow vectors would have less weapons (though bow and chase armaments where often of the largest on the ship in RL), the field of fire won't be very adjustable due to the weight of the guns, and the necessary recoil paths. There's also the reloading cycle to take into account. Cannons will almost always be fired in salvos/broadsides, since they are fairly inaccurate, as to provide the greatest shock effect. This means that once fired, there should be a window of opportunity. Vulnerable vectors will also be those blocked by the ships rigging. Close in/anti boarding weapons would be small swivel guns, which would also be fairly slow-firing, but could send a nasty cloud of buckshot/shrapnel into any boarders face. Another possibility would be carronades on the upper decks, stubbier cannons that are shorter ranged, but allow for a larger caliber in return (for the same weight of the gun basically). They still have the same requirements regarding recoil paths though, so something like heavy ship weaponry would almost have to be set up to fire at not more than 45 degrees, so as not too but too much strain on the ship's frame from the recoil. Using something like mortars to cover the verticals isn't going to be to practical. Mortars in this day and age are just as heavy as a cannon if not heavier.
Depending on if airships are generally supposed to be amphibious will affect what kind of weapons are carried on the ventral aspect. Since gunports are sort non-conducive to keeping water out of a ship.
I think an advantage the Fae would have is speed and manuverability. The clouds of gunsmoke from battle, let alone normal clouds could provide cover for an approach. Also bad weather (not too bad). Fae would murderize merchant ships, on the other hand. If privateers or warships have Fae on board, enemy shipping is going to be crying. Aside from their combat spells, Fae could also carry one shot rocket launchers for black powder rockets (and maybe a reload or two). Pretty darn primitive, and probably about as dangerous to their weilders as the enemy. Rocket artillery of the early modern period on earth were notoriously fickle and inaccurate. Assuming the Fae find a good vector of attack, attack the sails would be a great tactic to use. I can't help but think that airships are going to be pretty vulnerable to fire, no matter what enchantments are used. Seasoned wood, usually painted and varnished, not too mention tarred cordage/rigging is simply a bonfire waiting to happen. This was true for wooden sailing ships, for all that they were on the ocean or large in land seas. You wouldn't want ship timbers to aborb water either, because that would affect stability, and allow rotting.
Some further thoughts about have airships might be "sailed". Assuming the windstones are used to provide a kind of "anti-gravity", or actual lift by causing wind currents to fill the sails (which would make for some pretty nasty slipstream around the hulls, so probably not), the inertia of a several hundred ton hull is still there. So, while a lighter-than-air ship without propulsion is completely at the mercy of the wind, an airship I guess woulld have a period of time until the force of the wind on hull and sails overcame the ships inertia. Since sails are basically airfoils (i.e. wind blowing over the surface causes a force more or less perpendicular to the sails orientation), there is in fact a way for a ship to move forward even without wind. Adjusting the amount of lift being generated by the windstones, causing the ship to either gain or lose altitude, will cause air to move across the sails surface. Properly adjusted, the lift generated will allow the ship to have controlled movement. If the windstones are generating "anti-gravity/levitation" and a ship-local wind vector simultaneously, it becomes even simpler to use the sails to control the direction of travel.
- Location
- Oblivion
Actually he would be less terrifying, the current Sheffield is in love with an insane psychopath so does whatever he tells her to do. Kayaba on the other hand is more likely to stick Joseph in some form of magical stasis and then go about turning Albion into castle Aincrad.LockedKeye said:
Still, even if a non GGO Sinon got summoned, she probably would try to get better at guns... didn't take her that long even in canon to get scary good.
GeshronTyler
Kleiner Giftzwerg
I can't see why that would be a good idea, though, storywise. Yes, one could say that since ALO got summoned, some other Void Mage casting Summon Familiar could mange to be the catalyst for something similar.Angelform said:
Regarding how complicated it is to simple integrate ALO into Halkegenia and accounting for the changes in the ZnT canon plotlines, and trying to do justice to the main characters of both series, I can only imagine materializing
another virtual world would simply choke the fic.
- Location
- Oblivion
Not really, Kayaba wouldn't need to be evil in this case ZnT is a world where adventure already exists. So all he would have to do is scatter prizes through out the castle and you would have people lining up to try and climb it.mdkcde said:
Xicree
Murder.Malice.Might
You know... thinking about it, Kayaba would make a scarily good match for Joesph as a familiar. In a way they have pretty much a matching demenor and goals which would mesh so well that it wouldnt be hard for them to complement each other. Joe's desire to feel again, meshed with Kayaba's need to bring his world to life and make everyone take it seriously... is a potential for disaster like Nothing else.
And Kayaba as Moz.... is so fitting its almost TOO good a match up. Seriously, Moz basicly gives him back the ability to treat the system like a computer program and give himself the abilities needed to enjoy taking part in his game once more.
Aincrad would soon follow. And a war against Kayaba and all the horrors/wonders he'd bring would be... magnificently unholy.
And Kayaba as Moz.... is so fitting its almost TOO good a match up. Seriously, Moz basicly gives him back the ability to treat the system like a computer program and give himself the abilities needed to enjoy taking part in his game once more.
Aincrad would soon follow. And a war against Kayaba and all the horrors/wonders he'd bring would be... magnificently unholy.
GeshronTyler
Kleiner Giftzwerg
Here are some suggestions for designations Fae combat/guard formations. Asuna has her Knights of Blood of course, but if they end up with similar uniforms to the SAO version, maybe they could be called the White Jackets. That's because I'm thinking that Kirito's command being called the "Black Jackets" would be awesome. Normal guard forces (police and militia) could be called "Yellow Jackets" (black and yellow stripes) to continue the insect theme Fae air mobile troops could become known as "Harriers", in connection with the birds and the combat jets. I wonder if "Dragonflies" would end up being used by enemy troops as a kind of reporting designation/exclamation of "oh shit". Salamander heavy lancers "Hell Wasps"
Fae troops would have a big advantage in operations on Albion- they wouldn't need a harbor, and wouldn't need their transport to land, though the supply train would still require a port or LZ for long term support. Fae will also excel in normal cavarly type operations in ground combat, though any "cavalry charges" into massed troop formations with mage and/or artillery support would likely be bloody. Hit and run seems to be a better use, though a properly planned operation with their own support could make a combat assault landing feasible...
Fae troops would have a big advantage in operations on Albion- they wouldn't need a harbor, and wouldn't need their transport to land, though the supply train would still require a port or LZ for long term support. Fae will also excel in normal cavarly type operations in ground combat, though any "cavalry charges" into massed troop formations with mage and/or artillery support would likely be bloody. Hit and run seems to be a better use, though a properly planned operation with their own support could make a combat assault landing feasible...
GeshronTyler
Kleiner Giftzwerg
Except creating Aincrad would require god only knows what kind of "magical" resources. There's no Aincrad to summon, after all. It would take at the least access to Cardinal, and basically the same conditions that Louise had. It would almost certainly end up killing whatever mage(s) involved. Of course, that likely wouldn't bother Kayaba... I confess to liking the idea of Aincrad being created on Halkegenia, as broken as it would be. The Windstone Crisis is already pretty broken, so it needs something broken to counter. Aincrad could perhaps be purposed to act as a drill or some device that can reach the depth of the windstones and bring them to the surface. Bit by bit.Xicree said:
Xicree
Murder.Malice.Might
Let me rephrase that. I don't mean that Aincrad itself physically would follow, at least not directly. But the Ideas, the outlook, and the ability from which Aincrad was built would be put to work seeing it remade for this new world.GeshronTyler said:
- Location
- Oblivion
You're misunderstanding the psychology of both Kayaba and Joesph.Xicree said:
Joesph's desire isn't to feel, it's to make others feel as bad as he does in a misguided attempt to get over his guilt for killing his brother.
Just like Kayaba's desire isn't to bring his world to life, that was just how his real problem manifested in the real world. What he really wants is to live in a world where hero's and villains exist, where epic stories are a reality of life. And the thing is he doesn't need to a hero or villain in the world of ZnT, they already exist.
Triggerhappy
Stick with Trigger and You'll Make it Through
- Location
- SoCal
I like this.GeshronTyler said:
- Location
- Oblivion
That's what Joseph's tells himself is the reason for his actions, but it isn't. What it actually is is someone who had a brief idea of what being a psychopath was telling himself that he was one as an excuse to rid himself of the guilt he felt over killing his own brother out of jealousy.Felix3D said:
zero_traveler
Revolver Ocelot
- Location
- Revolver Ocelot
To those talking about Sinon coming over and being some kind of badass gunslinger/sniper/awesome mccoolname, You do all realize she completely shuts down in the presence of Real world guns? Like, to the point of vomiting and basically complete mental breakdown. Towards the beginning of the story, someone sets off a "fit" just by making a gun shape with their hand and pointing it at her.
GGO was her trying to get over that. But now it looks like GGO won't happen, since everyone connected to ALO "Apparently" got vaporized. It was described as a Terrible blow to the "Fulldive" industry.
No GGO, no badass Sinon to summon. IF she does get summoned, it wouldn't be as Sinon, it would be as "Asada Shino"
EDIT: This is assuming of course, that it doesn't pull an Altworld summon from a world that it DIDN'T kidnap ALO and everyone attached to it from.
GGO was her trying to get over that. But now it looks like GGO won't happen, since everyone connected to ALO "Apparently" got vaporized. It was described as a Terrible blow to the "Fulldive" industry.
No GGO, no badass Sinon to summon. IF she does get summoned, it wouldn't be as Sinon, it would be as "Asada Shino"
EDIT: This is assuming of course, that it doesn't pull an Altworld summon from a world that it DIDN'T kidnap ALO and everyone attached to it from.
- Location
- Third planet from the star named Sol
- Pronouns
- He/They
No, his desire was to bring the world of Aincrad to life, he just couldn't accomplish it. So he went with the next best thing, create a virtual world where it all was real. Besides, he's no longer on earth, so he wont get to see the fruits of his labor (even if it wont happen for another 20-30 years by this story's timelin). I've no doubt that he'd leap at the chance to create the castle he'd dreamed of since he was a child in the physical world.Vaermina said:
- Location
- Oblivion
His goal wasn't the castle, after all he had no need to kidnap humans for that, his goal was the story.NotAlwaysFanfic said:
Triggerhappy
Stick with Trigger and You'll Make it Through
- Location
- SoCal
Its a bit of both actually. He wanted to make his story 'real' and that meant creating [<Aincrad]> and populating with real people who would treat the game as a real life or death situation. Actually, this makes me wonder what have done with the fluctlight technology from Alicization.Vaermina said:
- Location
- Third planet from the star named Sol
- Pronouns
- He/They
That's what I was saying. He wanted to create his dream and make it real, and that dream wouldn't be real, to him, without people who treated it as reality.Triggerhappy said:
The guy certainly was complex. In the end, it is difficult to fully understand a person's motives and desires, even if explained in words. The raw intent will always be something vaguely alien to you, until you feel it yourself.
Triggerhappy
Stick with Trigger and You'll Make it Through
- Location
- SoCal
Maybe, I always got the feeling that Kayaba was this kind of 'Randian hero' done right, in the sense than Rand's heroes are all pretty much sociopathic villains. He had a dream, and even ideals, and didn't care who he stepped on to realize it. That said I imagine he was almost pitiable in a way, a sort of mad artist, working long nights obsessively, waking from feverish dreams, constantly learning, envisioning, creating, so that one day he could realize [<Aincrad]>.
Triggerhappy
Stick with Trigger and You'll Make it Through
- Location
- SoCal
You know those de-mo pictures of the little girl doing something awesome in a fantasy setting that are usually labeled with something like, "Yeah, you wish your childhood was this awesome"?Avalon Aurora said:Also, more Yui! And people's reactions to Yui! And people babysitting Yui and getting surprising revelations! And Yui trolling people who aren't Asuna or Kirito!
Now think of the people who are going to become her extended family, because lets be honest, Kirito, Asuna, and Yui are the textbook core of an unconventional family given their own issues.
She already has a 'dad' who can take on raid bosses and a 'mom' who can do the same while serving sandwiches to the rest of the raid group.
Her 'aunt' is probably going to teach her everything in the world about flying and Kendo.
Her other 'aunt' is going to probably be setting up shop and be all set to forge her a nice solid sword by the time she's old enough.
Her other other 'aunt' is probably going to be unable to resist teaching her how to ride a dragon once she's a little older.
Her 'uncle' is going to be teaching her everything about remaining a cool camouflaged badass under pressure.
Her other 'uncle' will probably be teaching her everything about how to haggle like a boss merchant.
And 'grandpa' is probably going to take her wale dragon fishing once she's older.
And don't even get started on her tutors once it comes out that she has a freaking photographic memory, absurd information filtering ability, and very likely 'thinks' a little bit faster than a human.
Xicree
Murder.Malice.Might
Precisely this. He's the mad-artist. And his entire morality is dictated around the achievement of his goal, in a manner of speaking he is very much a Randian hero. Down to even his sense of fair play... which is also an extention of his goal...Triggerhappy said:
But he remains a person you can hold empathy with because he never wavers from the ideals of his morality, no matter how alien. He's not currupt, he's not unfair. The rules he obeys may not be our rules, but you can see him clad in them like everyone else he subjects to them. He merely knows them better than everyone else does.
Xicree
Murder.Malice.Might
You know that old adage, 'It takes a village to raise a child'... Yui is a lucky girl, she gets an entire badass village to do the raising.Triggerhappy said:
Triggerhappy
Stick with Trigger and You'll Make it Through
- Location
- SoCal
Nobody said she can't change back to her child formAngelform said:
The issue is that it would probably cause way too many questions at the moment, not to mention be extremely painful at the moment for a lot of people to see a little human girl running around Arrun. The latter is probably something Yui is distinctly aware of and would want to avoid. I will say that there are plans in the works later to reset her full sized avatar from [<human]> to [<Maeve]> .