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Guardians Of The Galaxy Vol.2

Jcogginsa said:
Pay off in this context isn't about Character Arcs, it's about the overall plot of the movie. A previously established Plot element gets reintroduced.

Yondu lays it all out with his scene. They both found places where they belonged, but their respective Chips lead them to push the boundaries, In Yondu's case pushing them so far that he lost his family. From Yondu, Rocket learns to rein himself in so that he doesn't lose his family, whilst still being himself
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That's not the payoff we've been talking about (fin and bomb). In addition, that basically happened in GotG1 with whole Standing Up scene. Which is why I'm not saying it's really development but rather a reestablishment.

Which is really more of an issue of franchises than anything else. You want character arcs, but if you already had the arc what do you do now? I think Rocket's worked somewhat because we've always had tempers flare even between best friends or brothers. It's why this wasn't him becoming more but rather overcoming a problem. Rocket takes the batteries and gets them in trouble with the High Priestess. This gets the rest of the Guardians irked, which Rocket feels is unfair. His talk with Yondu reminds him that yes, they're a team/family/brotherhood. He doesn't really change as a character, just gets knocked out of his funk. While it's effectively looping Rocket around to where he was before, but it still works because solving a problem is a perfectly valid plot arc, reaffirming the lesson that you've got to be part of the team first and foremost. Yondu's story wasn't that of a chip on his shoulder IIRC, but rather of reaching too far and forgetting the team (the Ravagers). Which leads to the payoff of him sacrificing himself for his son figure in the end, and thus the emotional payoff of the Ravagers coming to the funeral (which made me feel emotions). Rocket didn't have as much of an emotional payoff, but that's primarily because it was said reaffirmation instead of growth. But frankly the end was busy as is, and I think it worked perfectly fine.
 
Mutton said:
That's not the payoff we've been talking about (fin and bomb). In addition, that basically happened in GotG1 with whole Standing Up scene. Which is why I'm not saying it's really development but rather a reestablishment.

Which is really more of an issue of franchises than anything else. You want character arcs, but if you already had the arc what do you do now? I think Rocket's worked somewhat because we've always had tempers flare even between best friends or brothers. It's why this wasn't him becoming more but rather overcoming a problem. Rocket takes the batteries and gets them in trouble with the High Priestess. This gets the rest of the Guardians irked, which Rocket feels is unfair. His talk with Yondu reminds him that yes, they're a team/family/brotherhood. He doesn't really change as a character, just gets knocked out of his funk. While it's effectively looping Rocket around to where he was before, but it still works because solving a problem is a perfectly valid plot arc, reaffirming the lesson that you've got to be part of the team first and foremost. Yondu's story wasn't that of a chip on his shoulder IIRC, but rather of reaching too far and forgetting the team (the Ravagers). Which leads to the payoff of him sacrificing himself for his son figure in the end, and thus the emotional payoff of the Ravagers coming to the funeral (which made me feel emotions). Rocket didn't have as much of an emotional payoff, but that's primarily because it was said reaffirmation instead of growth. But frankly the end was busy as is, and I think it worked perfectly fine.
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It's the pay off I've been talking about. You brought up that Groot that the bomb scene falls flat because Groot doesn't have an arc, and I pointed to the Set Up and Pay Off aspects to show why it isn't flat
 
Jcogginsa said:
It's the pay off I've been talking about. You brought up that Groot that the bomb scene falls flat because Groot doesn't have an arc, and I pointed to the Set Up and Pay Off aspects to show why it isn't flat
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Rocket's arc isn't at all involved in that though; the reestablishment of his character exists via Peter and Yondu. Like, the "setup" is the Fin scene and then we'd expect the payoff to come from a change that gives a different meaning to him setting off the timer on the bomb. But there isn't a change in meaning there, there's no change in BG.
 
Mutton said:
Rocket's arc isn't at all involved in that though; the reestablishment of his character exists via Peter and Yondu. Like, the "setup" is the Fin scene and then we'd expect the payoff to come from a change that gives a different meaning to him setting off the timer on the bomb. But there isn't a change in meaning there, there's no change in BG.
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I'm talking about set up in a general Plot sense, not as part of the character arc. Rocket's character arc stuff comes earlier, when he and Yondu are talking in the cell
 
Re comedy is not repetition, have to disagree, one of the central components of who's on first is repetition.
 
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