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God of War (PS4): Seriously.

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Hykal94 said:
According to Super Best Friends, Kratos makes more sense if you played it according to release rather than chronologically. Because it's clear the writers had plans for an arc that never went anywhere considering it was split between two consoles and a handheld system.
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If I remember right the first one was a stand alone story about him never able to forgive his actions and what happened cause of it. The second and third where a rampage of revenge from sudden blood thirstyness. With side games being other gods are evil too.
 
ChildishChimera said:
If I remember right the first one was a stand alone story about him never able to forgive his actions and what happened cause of it. The second and third where a rampage of revenge from sudden blood thirstyness. With side games being other gods are evil too.
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The rage in 2 and 3 isn't exactly unexpected. Kratos did everything he did in 1 so that the Gods would end the constant nightmares he had about his family: when the job was done, they refused to do that to his face, didn't allow him to kill himself, and then bestowed enormous power on him: power that he'd never wanted. His initial combination of hatred and ennui in 2 perfectly follows from that, and Zeus's betrayal just makes it a hundred times worse.
 
Hykal94 said:
According to Super Best Friends, Kratos makes more sense if you played it according to release rather than chronologically. Because it's clear the writers had plans for an arc that never went anywhere considering it was split between two consoles and a handheld system.
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ChildishChimera said:
If I remember right the first one was a stand alone story about him never able to forgive his actions and what happened cause of it. The second and third where a rampage of revenge from sudden blood thirstyness. With side games being other gods are evil too.
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So instead of playing 1,2, and 3 and having that fully story I have to drop money to fix the plot holes by buying the prequels? Fuck that tbh. Either make it consistent with few plot holes that can be inferred to built up in different games or just don't do prequels. This feels more like Corporate looking for ways to make money.

Ser_Serendipity said:
The rage in 2 and 3 isn't exactly unexpected. Kratos did everything he did in 1 so that the Gods would end the constant nightmares he had about his family: when the job was done, they refused to do that to his face, didn't allow him to kill himself, and then bestowed enormous power on him: power that he'd never wanted. His initial combination of hatred and ennui in 2 perfectly follows from that, and Zeus's betrayal just makes it a hundred times worse.
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I agree it's not unexpected but it's dumb. Kratos did the EXACT same thing Ares did with trying to conquer the world and Zeus being chief punished him. Hell, even Athena warned him not to do it and risk angering the Gods. IMO Zeu's betrayals comes from a double standard of Ares doing it and him not intervening (even though he gave Kratos powers) and Kratos doing it and him getting personally involved.

Also, you said my pet peeve and love of this 'story'. Rage. That's fucking it. He rages so hard he forgets himself and does dumb decisions all the time like invading Rhodes and all of Greece. Why not fight off the Romans or Persians or something? That could have been fun if a bit weird with God of War taking on God of War but hella fun. So yeah the Gods 'betrayed' him but if I was a worker and did things that got the other guy canned would it be a betrayal that I get canned more directly?

The story just demands sympathy to an angry person and that's it. I mean try and get really angry and make rational decisions: It doesn't work. No don't tell me he 'redeems' himself by saving Pandora or any of that horse manure because that was just a drop in a bucket to sinking the whole of fucking Greece (again, including Sparta). I really think at 3 Kratos should have just been the ultimate big bad anti-hero and just destroyed everything like a normal terrorist/anarchist and just left. But no, they wanted to humanize the guy who murders tons of fucking monsters and family with the same expression.

I mean it's almost Mary Sue imo.

Like please don't try and justify this man. He's an ass whole who kills lots of things, sometimes he kills bads things yeah but for bad reasons (MORE POWER! - Namely). Unlike Guts from Berserk, that was his only real mode.

Also in an attempt to gross you out: He fucked his own Sister. Like idk whats up with Santa Monica but that was disgusting from my cultural point of view. That 'keep it in the family' shit from the deep south and European Royalty was always weird to me.
 
Valkur said:
So instead of playing 1,2, and 3 and having that fully story I have to drop money to fix the plot holes by buying the prequels? Fuck that tbh. Either make it consistent with few plot holes that can be inferred to built up in different games or just don't do prequels. This feels more like Corporate looking for ways to make money.
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It may be that, but they also realized they had stories they wanted to tell.

I agree it's not unexpected but it's dumb. Kratos did the EXACT same thing Ares did with trying to conquer the world and Zeus being chief punished him. Hell, even Athena warned him not to do it and risk angering the Gods. IMO Zeu's betrayals comes from a double standard of Ares doing it and him not intervening (even though he gave Kratos powers) and Kratos doing it and him getting personally involved.

Also, you said my pet peeve and love of this 'story'. Rage. That's fucking it. He rages so hard he forgets himself and does dumb decisions all the time like invading Rhodes and all of Greece. Why not fight off the Romans or Persians or something? That could have been fun if a bit weird with God of War taking on God of War but hella fun. So yeah the Gods 'betrayed' him but if I was a worker and did things that got the other guy canned would it be a betrayal that I get canned more directly?

The story just demands sympathy to an angry person and that's it. I mean try and get really angry and make rational decisions: It doesn't work. No don't tell me he 'redeems' himself by saving Pandora or any of that horse manure because that was just a drop in a bucket to sinking the whole of fucking Greece (again, including Sparta). I really think at 3 Kratos should have just been the ultimate big bad anti-hero and just destroyed everything like a normal terrorist/anarchist and just left. But no, they wanted to humanize the guy who murders tons of fucking monsters and family with the same expression.

I mean it's almost Mary Sue imo.

Like please don't try and justify this man. He's an ass whole who kills lots of things, sometimes he kills bads things yeah but for bad reasons (MORE POWER! - Namely). Unlike Guts from Berserk, that was his only real mode.

Also in an attempt to gross you out: He fucked his own Sister. Like idk whats up with Santa Monica but that was disgusting from my cultural point of view. That 'keep it in the family' shit from the deep south and European Royalty was always weird to me.
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You've never read Greek myth have you? Literally everything that Kratos did, from picking up where Ares left off to banging his sister, is as Olympian as it gets. This was perfectly in character for a Greek tragedy.
 
I really like the read of the OT GoW games as a phase-shifted Greek tragedy, where rather than Man engaging in Hubris by challenging the Gods and then suffering for it according to Fate, it's a story about how the Gods engaged in Hubris by challenging Man, and getting equally-shafted by Fate. Kratos is basically a (aheh) Fury; he's a force of nature driving the plot to its conclusion, not a sympathetic character.

As such, I felt that the ending bits of GoWIII with Pandora kind of fell flat; I wasn't invested in her or her relationship with Kratos because I wasn't invested in Kratos as a person.
 
Xero Key said:
It may be that, but they also realized they had stories they wanted to tell.


You've never read Greek myth have you? Literally everything that Kratos did, from picking up where Ares left off to banging his sister, is as Olympian as it gets. This was perfectly in character for a Greek tragedy.
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BUT WHICH IS IT!? LIke come on man do you know how many people have said things like "oh they had a creative liceanse" but does that mean? Are all the Gods are as portrayed? Why didn't we get to fight Athena and beat HER at the end? It could have been Corrupted Civilazation Vs. Primal Barbaric Rule but idk. I'm just massively disapointed.

Yes, it was Olympian but Kratos was not born in Olympus. He was mostly mortal and had a human mother. His brother and himself where Spartans also I think so they were basically normal guys. But I guess Greeks do have a tendecy to tragedy. An in Mythos not just Greeks but also in Norse Mythology have the tendecy to tradjedy in order to tell important stories for that civialazation.

Ser_Serendipity said:
GoW never demands sympathy. Empathy, maybe, but Kratos is a definitive unsympathetic anti-hero.
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From what I felt I heard in that video, it said 'you got to feel bad for him'. My RL friends have said the same thing. I can emphatize with his anger, lack of friends (seriously not ONE fucking friend), and lack of real direction in life.

But mostly fair enough. I just dislike it when people say he was justified in everything because he just wasn't. He fucked up with his remit as a God and got punished for it while Zeus went WAY out of bounds by going after Sparta. An Athena...just did nothing i'm guessing due to lack of power. Or desire. Wish that could get cleared up for me.

EDIT: Wait....GODIII demanded symphathy in the form of Pandora...and GOD I in the killing of Zeus's familly. GODII I can agree with not needed symphathy but the others are driven by a revenge plot which imo needs symphathy.

Robert Liguori said:
I really like the read of the OT GoW games as a phase-shifted Greek tragedy, where rather than Man engaging in Hubris by challenging the Gods and then suffering for it according to Fate, it's a story about how the Gods engaged in Hubris by challenging Man, and getting equally-shafted by Fate. Kratos is basically a (aheh) Fury; he's a force of nature driving the plot to its conclusion, not a sympathetic character.

As such, I felt that the ending bits of GoWIII with Pandora kind of fell flat; I wasn't invested in her or her relationship with Kratos because I wasn't invested in Kratos as a person.
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Just saw this and I think you raised a good point. Isn't there that greek term called the 'Deus Ex' which is like a super strong plot character that fixes things when nothing else can? Like a blessing from the Gods or w.e?

But in the end, you see, he's supposed to be human I think. That's just what God of War 3 wants despite what the other games may have wanted. Again, If I can reiterate my point on how a bad GM in D&D just changes there minds about plot elements too quickly then, well, it's basically that. It's not all the Dev's fault though considering GOD I was supposed to be a stand alone game. But big wigs wanted to make more money and so started the prequels and sequels and then yeah. This all happened. They also really didn't give that much time between games to chart the plot either imo.

God I and God 2 were released 2 years from each other. An I believe there was a prequel in between all of that. Someone quote me if i'm wrong please.
 
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all fictions said:
Deus ex machina is a Latin term, but yes the concept originated from Greek plays.
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Ahh. Something else the Romans stole. Well you know what I mean but yeah.

BTW what are the chances that they'll make GOd of War II in 2 - 3 years like last time? They have the engine and script according to Cory. All they need is time to lvl design imo.
 
Ser_Serendipity said:
Again, empathy, not sympathy.
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Depends on the game again for me. Can we just all agree that the originals had some flaky stories and badly executed plot devices? Please?

Cause again, those games were fun as all hell. I love a good hack and slash and I love destroying big as fucking God monsters. That shits metal as fuck.
 
Shit man i'm sorry. I couldn't see it.

So yeah same question: Will they make GOD II in 2-3 years like the last games.
 
Valkur said:
Shit man i'm sorry. I couldn't see it.

So yeah same question: Will they make GOD II in 2-3 years like the last games.
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Only if they wanted to re-use every asset from this one, which considering people got tired of Troll fights seems like a bad idea. Besides, they need to film all the new mocap scenes, which can take two years itself.
 
Xero Key said:
Only if they wanted to re-use every asset from this one, which considering people got tired of Troll fights seems like a bad idea. Besides, they need to film all the new mocap scenes, which can take two years itself.
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That sounds very doable in 2-3 years. Making monsters that are basically pre-set in Norse Mythology can't be that difficult (I think). Although yeah I didn't think of mocap tbh. An then there is also level design of course. Sounds doable but yeah maybe they'll try to take there time. Depending on what the big wigs want though we could have a repeat of the last trilogy.
 
...So...

If we visit Japan, are we going to support mythical forces from Ainu mythology in their war against oppressive Shinto-Buddhist mythical forces?

It'd be different, at the very least. Besides, Ainu culture needs more awareness.
 
Personally, I'm hoping that this trilogy or whatever ends with Baldur's resurrection and the next series has you playing as the alcoholic, irate, formerly-immortal Norse counterpart of Kratos as he beats down whatever Pantheon pissed him off. It seems like it'd be an interesting time.
 
Gen.Raven said:
Personally, I'm hoping that this trilogy or whatever ends with Baldur's resurrection and the next series has you playing as the alcoholic, irate, formerly-immortal Norse counterpart of Kratos as he beats down whatever Pantheon pissed him off. It seems like it'd be an interesting time.
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I kinda think it'd be the opposite, though- Baldur, once free of his insanity, would be like an innocent child, enjoying the simple pleasures of life as much as possible, avoiding violence and all reminders of his shameful past self whenever he can.
 
LSkullD said:
I kinda think it'd be the opposite, though- Baldur, once free of his insanity, would be like an innocent child, enjoying the simple pleasures of life as much as possible, avoiding violence and all reminders of his shameful past self whenever he can.
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...I, uh, I doubt Baldur was ever very good or whatever, especially with what his father and brother seem to be like in this version of events. I mean, yeah, no doubt the immortality made him worse, but I don't think he was all that innocent and kind-hearted before. Also, y'know, his immortality getting removed magically making him good would be shitty character development :V
 
Gen.Raven said:
...I, uh, I doubt Baldur was ever very good or whatever, especially with what his father and brother seem to be like in this version of events. I mean, yeah, no doubt the immortality made him worse, but I don't think he was all that innocent and kind-hearted before. Also, y'know, his immortality getting removed magically making him good would be shitty character development :V
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Yeah, but I don't really see him becoming an irate alcoholic either. Also, most of his actions throughout the game mark him as being kinda childish, largely to draw parallels between him and Classic!Kratos during the climax as children who grew up physically but never quite mentally in a terrible environment obsessed with toxic masculinity who, after being horribly wronged by the gods (who are their parents), go after them on a quest for revenge because rage is all they know as a result of the circumstances they're trapped in (Baldur being stuck without his senses for centuries, Kratos's dead family and Zeus gunning to murder his ass) and the aforementioned toxic environments they were raised in- Kratos raising Atreus and later murdering Baldur is literally his attempt at breaking the cycle of children taking revenge on their parents after being wronged by them, and his quote at the end of the fight with Baldur references this pretty explicitly.

But still, Baldur automatically becoming innocent is pretty shitty, so I think a compromise would be him going down the route Kratos went; a remorseful fuck up who tries to be his best self, the creature he may have been before becoming immortal (because there's some implications in story that Baldur was kind of sort of not a jackass before he became immortal), but through his bursts of madness and insane rage begins to recognize that he can't be that... but that even if he can't be what he once was, he can still be better than the monster who tried to kill his own mother, that he has to grow the fuck up and define himself by more than his tragedy or else he'll destroy his own life again.
 
LSkullD said:
I still subscribe to him being a manchild who has to grow up.
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Same.

He got what he wanted but still had to prove he wasn't a coward by killing someone who can't defend themselves. To me he got what he wanted and had the chance to finally be what he wanted or be something new. But instead he wanted to prove that he wasn't a coward and kill someone who can't defend themseleves. I can't find myself pitying that to be frank. Your a grown man Baldur like come on.

Why are you going to kill your mom when you have what you wanted and can do what you want? When all she wanted was to help you get better? Did he even know about the Rune Prophecy?
 
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