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I deeply appreciate this but also, Dragon Age is western and doesn't contain goblins. Dragon Quest is the one I mentioned
Goblin Slayer and Literary Analysis vis a vis Thematic Elements
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I deeply appreciate this but also, Dragon Age is western and doesn't contain goblins. Dragon Quest is the one I mentioned
All those Dragon titles look alike to me.
Shanejayell
Yuri Fan without a Pause
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All those Dragon titles look alike to me.
Dragon Prejudice! You should TOTALLY be able to tell dragons apart!
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You'll need a better excuse than that to wyrm your way out of thisAll those Dragon titles look alike to me.
Loktarogar
The Apex of Cuddling
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I asked for Japanese examples, as the tropes for rapist Goblins were from Japanese Fantasy Culture.
I fail to see how Final Fantasy XIV is a dark fantasy, but the one from XV I do know Goblins are treated a generic enemy number 63
Unless you want Goblins as a generic enemy who is hardly explored within the story(I really can't say anything about Final Fantasy XIV I don't know shit about this game, so it must be an exception I think), and pointing out western stuff does not count when I am arguing for Japanese view of the fantasy race of Goblins.
So yeah Final Fantasy XIV is the only one I see as a media of non-rapist Goblin Within the Japanese gaming/MMO community which is more targeted to the western audience than the local audience.
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AnonymousRabbit
Rabbit Faced
Well there was that time Bahamut murdered everyone as everyone fought a hopeless battle to beat him. But I guess everything was fine in the end I guess..? Also in the next expansion, I think everyone is going to get horribly murdered again? Sounds pretty dark to me, yo.
Loktarogar
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I see, sorry I really don't know anything about Final Fantasy XIV.
Thanks for this.
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Fixed that for you
In all seriousness, can we all be a little more open to what others are saying rather than trying to talk about things on which we don't know much about?
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Loktarogar
The Apex of Cuddling
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So now we are back to insulting me huh, fuck this, I am out of here.Fixed that for you
In all seriousness, can we all be a little more open to what others are saying rather than trying to talk about things on which we don't know much about?
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So, now we're back to you insulting everyone who doesn't unthinkingly agree with you, no matter how politely they phrase it.
Loktarogar
The Apex of Cuddling
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I admit I was angry after seeing the 'joke' and edited the post.
And no I refuse to engage with you Kaiya, you are the one who loves insulting, mocking, and the mods love to ignore everything you do.
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Okay. I'm not familiar with Dragon Quest, but this flat dismissal of Final Fantasy is absurd.
Like. Final Fantasy 4. This is one of the classic Final Fantasies. One of the first things that happens is our protagonist and his best friend get tricked into murdering an entire village, a unique culture, killing everyone except one small child. They then have to deal with keeping that small child alive, while she hates them, and they can't disagree with her on why because they did just kill everyone she knows and loves.
… And it keeps going. I can't even cover everything because 4 is one I'm not super familiar with.
But several of them deal with shit like this. Final Fantasy Seven is dark, though unfortunately I can't cover the details because I only know some of them second hand. Final Fantasy Crystal Chronicles features what amounts to a memory eating demon as our final boss, and has us cross paths with multiple people who don't know who they are because they ran afoul of him.
Final Fantasy is routinely dark. The lighter hearted examples still feature stuff like kidnappings, seduction that is arguably actually rape, and more.
People have been dying in Final Fantasy- named characters, I mean- since all the way back in 2. Apocalyptic events occur regularly, people deal with broken societies, people get forced to be sacrificial martyrs... The fact that you want to say Final Fantasy isn't dark suggests to me you've either never actually played a Final Fantasy or else have only played one or two of the lighter ones, or not gotten very far, and then generalized.
Final Fantasy is an excellent example of a dark series with mature themes. There's light and fluffy elements, sure. But the idea that it's invalid as dark is... not born out by reality.
The problem is their is an inequality of claims here, Lokratogar. You are claiming that the entire norm of Japanese Media Goblin Culture is this one thing. Your supporting examples mean nothing if there are, in fact, ten times as many counter examples, to pick a ratio out of my hat. Your claim can be busted by enough counter examples. Your supporting examples only prove that it appears in Japanese Media, not that it's actually the norm. Not when other people are pointing to multiple examples that lack it.
Report people if you think they're being uncivil. 'fuck you guys' (the apparent implicit sentiment of even your cleaned up statement here) is not civil itself. Two wrongs don't make a right. If you think other people are the ones being uncivil, or disruptive/debating in bad faith, or hateful, or what have you, we have rules on it. Report, don't drop into the mud to join the other people.
… her infraction history rather clearly proves you wrong. She's not someone with a record of no infractions.
Loktarogar
The Apex of Cuddling
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Sorry about not responding to the rest of the post, but I give up after that last 'joke', but I have done several reports and she was called one single time, while she was harassing me almost during the entire original thread of GS.
My trust for the Mods in SV has been going down massively, that I much prefer to avoid almost everything in this forum, besides one single quest and one single fic.
And no I can't see her page because it is blocked to people.
Edit: Also oh yeah got an infraction in the same thread because I used 'biased' wrongly to shut down arguments, even after I said repeatedly I was not doing such thing and in fact agreed with the opinion of the poster also in the same infraction I was warned that getting into discussions about what things actually mean, even when I was not the one who initiated and got dragged down into such conversations.
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I have like a hundred points of active infractions lol, and like 125 expired over the years. I am hardly the moderation staff's pet. Maybe, instead of blaming everything you do wrong on everyone else, and assuming people are getting special privileges, focus on your own behavior and correcting the things wrong with it.
Night
Widow Null
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Uh, if you think Japanese racism towards black people doesn't match onto American racism towards black people, I have bad news about those illustrations earlier in thread, because they absolutely do. If anything they're far less subtly racist than any modernized American take; the fifties in their raw, unfiltered form.
Final Fantasy Six literally destroyed the world partway through the game. The fuck are you talking about?
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I wasn't saying you should know that, I was informing you that, no. She does not, in fact, 'get away' with things. She has a large number of infractions.
Regardless, SV has multiple mechanisms for transparency and accountability. More importantly, you not having faith in the mods doesn't change the really basic, really obvious point that if you go around kicking the shit out of other people, the mods are gonna look at that and go 'woah now, that's not cool'.
The moderators are human. They're fallible, just like you or I, and they're not omniscient. They can't act on stuff they don't even know exists. And even if you want to assume the entire 20 some odd moderators are out to get you, it's still a bad plan to give them excuses. Like. I'm not talking about 'oh trust the mods man' here. I'm talking about 'making yourself look like the problem here is gonna get you worse results, regardless of whether the Powers That Be are acting in good faith or not'.
Loktarogar
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Sorry Terra, but I am done with this Forum, I will just stick to the things I like here and when they end I will just erase my account or something like that, I just don't care anymore.
Edit: Or just remain lurking, yeah that sounds better.
Edit2: Also another thing Terra there were numerous staff members in the thread, but since they 'agreed' with Kaiya they overlooked her attitude, insults, everything she did there.
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There's a definite trend of, mostly Japanese, web novels and light novels taking rape goblins as a given. Re: Monster comes to mind Slime Tensei acknowledges the trope. Goblin Survivor I haven't read, but I'm sure it uses it, because the summary on NovelUpdates seems to take the trope as a given.
This isn't anywhere near as universal as alleged, because it strikes me more that a lot of Japanese web novels (many of which get published if they do well) exist in a particular super self-referential and derivative ecosystem (see the 80 million Isekai into world with lol random rpg mechanic last webnovels.) FFXIV wouldn't tap into that, less because it's not a thing and more because XIV has actual world building and so isn't part of that very specific media sphere.
That said, I'm not quite sure what pointing to the prevalence of a trope achieves. It doesn't make it less grounded in sexism or potentially racist if it's a common trope. The tangent seems like its somewhat irrelevant, since, while I may be missing something, I don't see how this means much of anything either way?
This isn't anywhere near as universal as alleged, because it strikes me more that a lot of Japanese web novels (many of which get published if they do well) exist in a particular super self-referential and derivative ecosystem (see the 80 million Isekai into world with lol random rpg mechanic last webnovels.) FFXIV wouldn't tap into that, less because it's not a thing and more because XIV has actual world building and so isn't part of that very specific media sphere.
That said, I'm not quite sure what pointing to the prevalence of a trope achieves. It doesn't make it less grounded in sexism or potentially racist if it's a common trope. The tangent seems like its somewhat irrelevant, since, while I may be missing something, I don't see how this means much of anything either way?
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As much as I love Berserk because it handles its themes well, maybe we need to GO BACK IN TIME AND STOP IT FROM EXISTING, so shitty edgelord writers can stop trying to ape it's dark themes without knowing what makes it work in Berserk.
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I was meant to be mocking the people had been repeatedly lowering the tone of the conversation by talking about how people were uneducated or didn't know shit in aggressive ways, to throw you a bone, but I guess you can take it that way too :/
EDIT: I do apologize if this didn't come out in my post - I probably could ahve made than more clear. My bad.
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Okay, so first off, let me say something that really should be obvious. Staff are not a hive mind. Myself, Broken Base, MJ12 Commando, Crilltic, and Eukie did post as normal users there, though excepting Eukie that's a series of Arbitrators. Who don't do mod actions. Eukie posted only on the first page.
The other mods who posted did, in fact, post only as moderators. Which is normal- the mods don't moderate threads they are participating in in the first place, as much as can be avoided.
Moreover, Kaiya was, in fact, actioned over the course of the thread Here, so her behavior was not ignored. The moderation staff may have disagreed with you on extent, but she was, in fact, warned.
Arbitrators aren't Moderators. We aren't even supposed to give our opinions on how staff action should go down in any particular case because we're supposed to be as much as possible an unbiased second set of eyes.
The Moderators may have acted differently than you think they should. Everyone has different opinions there. But you've been really bad in this thread and that one about holding double standards, not seeing the implications of your own positions and demands, and a number of other unpleasant behaviors, and then accusing other people of... All the stuff you are doing. Which looks really bad when you then go and say 'people I'm arguing with not getting hit looks like mod bias!' under a reasoning that at best misunderstands the fundamental relationship of the staff branches. And in fairness, they can be confusing, especially if you aren't part of the staff, so I'm not saying you shouldn't be confused here.
But your reasoning is not accurate to what happened, because of the fact that Arbitrators aren't Moderators and aren't supposed to give feedback on moderation outside pretty much appeals, and even if they were moderators they would be expected to not moderate threads they're active in, just like the moderators.
Loktarogar
The Apex of Cuddling
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This pisses me off a lot, every time I go too far, I apologize, edit my post or just delete my post while apologizing, and then you go 'you too!" that is rich.
Do I need to dig out the post where Kaiya basically challenged the staff to infract her? Are you really saying I am the same?
About the mods, I did not know about those things, so I apologize, about that Kaiya infraction oh yeah I know that one, the most blatant insulting one, I did reference it
Then my Infraction appears next, and I am hit with using 'Biased' as a mean to shut down arguments...while I am saying I am agreeing with the opinion of the poster in the same post.
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Omegahugger
Inattentive Idiot
You know, it just struck me that when talking about "fiction with mature themes that go into goblin culture", you'd be able to talk about Harry Potter as well.
It's not so relevant to this particular discussion, as we're looking for japanese examples of goblins and Harry Potter is pretty darn British, I just didn't expect it to be applicable here.
(It's also not a good example if you want goblins without some really unfortunate racist vibes, even if they are entirely different ones from Goblin Slayer)
It's not so relevant to this particular discussion, as we're looking for japanese examples of goblins and Harry Potter is pretty darn British, I just didn't expect it to be applicable here.
(It's also not a good example if you want goblins without some really unfortunate racist vibes, even if they are entirely different ones from Goblin Slayer)
"Those greedy hook-nosed bastards, controlling the world's money supply and lending at obscene rates, and never honoring a deal in their life! Buncha sub-humans if you ask me!"
oh jkr you are sometimes the worst
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If you can't see what other people are saying, and you can't agree, and you think people should be infracted, here's what you do: you hit the report button, report the posts you feel should be reported, and leave it at that. Maybe even leave the thread if you feel like there's truly zero chance of having an actual conversation. And maybe, just maybe, if everyone you talk to seems to think you're being unreasonable in some places, maybe you should consider not just dismissing that? Even if they're wrong and you're in the right, it can be valuable to see why people think that. I just don't see sitting in this thread complaining about how the mods aren't doing anything and everyone's being unreasonable as something that's productive or even fun.