Maybe I am reading too much on his commentary abiut the reasons for him to like the story (that only the member of his clan survived at the end)
Glory of the Emerald Empire (Legend of the 5 Rings Quest)
- Thread starter Winged Knight
- Start date
- Fantasy
Sirrocco
Pedantic
In Rokugan, mentioning in passing how one of your ancestors died gloriously in honorable battle against a terrible foe isn't really considered an insult. He's perhaps being a bit flippant about it, but I don't think it was offensive.
As I said, I could be reading too much into it.
(Obs. The point that I saw as maybe offensive was him pointing that his ancestor was the last one to die)
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EtchedSteel
*mumble mumble*
- Location
- Lima. Peru
I got Scorpion'd on this very first line, but I'm gonna say it regardless: Is not offensive at all, considering is a well know story in Rokugan that is a fact (according to the official records after all). That kind of stories you tell your kids before going to bed.
Sirrocco, that really considers all the posible scenarios, but don't you thing you're going too ahead on this? I say we at least we will have to learn their intentions first. I don't know, maybe by engaging some chattering with him and see what happens from there.
Of course, the Scorpion wants information, for that's a weapon as sharp as a katana, but seriously is too soon to think about this... Or maybe not? I don't know anymore. Also, how much time lasted this scene? Would that be enough time for Shirou to actually tell Mataru enough about us, assuming he's a Scorpion? Where the hell did we got the assumpsion he's a scorpion, in first place?
Oh yes, he (Shirou) offered himself to join our caravan, so there's a point. Although, not enough to raise a flag from my part.
"There's no coincidences, just the inevitable."
If that's the case I will change the vote according to this.
Sirrocco, that really considers all the posible scenarios, but don't you thing you're going too ahead on this? I say we at least we will have to learn their intentions first. I don't know, maybe by engaging some chattering with him and see what happens from there.
Of course, the Scorpion wants information, for that's a weapon as sharp as a katana, but seriously is too soon to think about this... Or maybe not? I don't know anymore. Also, how much time lasted this scene? Would that be enough time for Shirou to actually tell Mataru enough about us, assuming he's a Scorpion? Where the hell did we got the assumpsion he's a scorpion, in first place?
Oh yes, he (Shirou) offered himself to join our caravan, so there's a point. Although, not enough to raise a flag from my part.
"There's no coincidences, just the inevitable."
If that's the case I will change the vote according to this.
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Sirrocco
Pedantic
So, for our objectives... well, in more or less descending order...
- We want to keep from spilling any secrets. That's pretty key. We have direct orders from Yasuki-sama and everything. We also want to keep our group from spilling any secrets. That means, at a bare minimum, that we won't be sharing any stories, if we can help it, and we certainly won't be busting out the perform skill. We also don't want to admit our newfound interest in storytelling.
- They're going to get *some* information out of us on this one. The Scorpion are also pretty neutral towards our clan right now, and have a fair bit of influence in places that we kind of care about. If we can present a portrait that will have them aiding us rather than hampering us, that would be good. Fortunately, the first step of that is pretty obvious. "No, really. The immediate Shadowlands threat is a very real thing. I'm totally serious." Unfortunately, the Crab tend to say that (and honestly mean it) quite a lot, so getting actual additional credibility on the subject above and beyond "Well, the Crab are convinced, anyway." isn't entirely trivial.
- Selling them on ourselves, one way or the other? That's a mixed bag. Is the attention of the Scorpion Clan a good thing or a bad thing? Now, if we're doing our job right, once we get done with the Dragon, we will have at least a decent amount of the attention of the Scorpion Clan (and the Dragon Clan, and the Crane Clan...) whether we like it or not. The question is whether or not we want that attention right *now*. At this point, they're trying to put us on a continuum somewhere between "another stone in the wall, with the Court skills to match" on the one side and "a rising star within the Clan" on the other. Of course, at bare minimum they've seen our armor, and they know that Yasuki Goro picked us, so we can't be *too* far off to one side, but we might be able to convince them that our skills are largely martial.
- Attached to that is the interesting question of whether or not we want this guy to join our merry band - or, probably more pertinently, whether we want to give Yasuki Goro the choice of having him join our merry band. It's possible he could be useful, but I think that having him along with the Scorpion at anything other than actively (if quietly) supporting our mission would be a net loss (if only because of the ongoing costs of keeping certain things hidden). I believe that Yasuki-sama would agree. Given that, if we can't discourage them from offering, we need to make it as easy as possible for him to turn the offer down - which means not implying at any point that we have need of additional traveling companions, or are wiling to welcome additional members (not even provisional on his agreement - the Diamyo has a lot of courtier advantages over him right now) or the like.
- We want to promote inter-Clan unity. It's a little thing, but the Scorpion *are* our neighbors, and having them think well of us is preferable to the alternative. This man is a Scorpion Samurai, and Clans are made up of people. Who knows? Perhaps *he'll* be someone important some day.
I guarantee that the Scorpion have thought about this already, and this guy is already trolling for information. This isn't ahead - it's *behind*. Still it's not too far behind. We haven't told Mataru anything yet, and he's not offered to join our caravan - just our table.
Mind you, sitting down at our table without invitation *was* a bit forward of him - not offensive, by any means, but a bit of a breach of etiquette. Hmmm....
He sits down without invitation, chewing on chicken, holding a bottle of sake in his hands and making a comment before any sort of introduction has been made. This is not the *smoothest* of Scorpion, at least in presentation. It's also worth noting that his mask barely covers anything... suggesting that he's not as big on hiding things as the rest of them. This is not the front that they'd present to any clan *other* than Crab (well, maybe Mantis, and possibly certain of the lion, but not most). If it's actually who he is, rather than purely a front, then he's not the most subtle of operators. It also makes it a bit more likely that he's here on his own initiative.
Hmmm....
- We want to keep from spilling any secrets. That's pretty key. We have direct orders from Yasuki-sama and everything. We also want to keep our group from spilling any secrets. That means, at a bare minimum, that we won't be sharing any stories, if we can help it, and we certainly won't be busting out the perform skill. We also don't want to admit our newfound interest in storytelling.
- They're going to get *some* information out of us on this one. The Scorpion are also pretty neutral towards our clan right now, and have a fair bit of influence in places that we kind of care about. If we can present a portrait that will have them aiding us rather than hampering us, that would be good. Fortunately, the first step of that is pretty obvious. "No, really. The immediate Shadowlands threat is a very real thing. I'm totally serious." Unfortunately, the Crab tend to say that (and honestly mean it) quite a lot, so getting actual additional credibility on the subject above and beyond "Well, the Crab are convinced, anyway." isn't entirely trivial.
- Selling them on ourselves, one way or the other? That's a mixed bag. Is the attention of the Scorpion Clan a good thing or a bad thing? Now, if we're doing our job right, once we get done with the Dragon, we will have at least a decent amount of the attention of the Scorpion Clan (and the Dragon Clan, and the Crane Clan...) whether we like it or not. The question is whether or not we want that attention right *now*. At this point, they're trying to put us on a continuum somewhere between "another stone in the wall, with the Court skills to match" on the one side and "a rising star within the Clan" on the other. Of course, at bare minimum they've seen our armor, and they know that Yasuki Goro picked us, so we can't be *too* far off to one side, but we might be able to convince them that our skills are largely martial.
- Attached to that is the interesting question of whether or not we want this guy to join our merry band - or, probably more pertinently, whether we want to give Yasuki Goro the choice of having him join our merry band. It's possible he could be useful, but I think that having him along with the Scorpion at anything other than actively (if quietly) supporting our mission would be a net loss (if only because of the ongoing costs of keeping certain things hidden). I believe that Yasuki-sama would agree. Given that, if we can't discourage them from offering, we need to make it as easy as possible for him to turn the offer down - which means not implying at any point that we have need of additional traveling companions, or are wiling to welcome additional members (not even provisional on his agreement - the Diamyo has a lot of courtier advantages over him right now) or the like.
- We want to promote inter-Clan unity. It's a little thing, but the Scorpion *are* our neighbors, and having them think well of us is preferable to the alternative. This man is a Scorpion Samurai, and Clans are made up of people. Who knows? Perhaps *he'll* be someone important some day.
I guarantee that the Scorpion have thought about this already, and this guy is already trolling for information. This isn't ahead - it's *behind*. Still it's not too far behind. We haven't told Mataru anything yet, and he's not offered to join our caravan - just our table.
Mind you, sitting down at our table without invitation *was* a bit forward of him - not offensive, by any means, but a bit of a breach of etiquette. Hmmm....
He sits down without invitation, chewing on chicken, holding a bottle of sake in his hands and making a comment before any sort of introduction has been made. This is not the *smoothest* of Scorpion, at least in presentation. It's also worth noting that his mask barely covers anything... suggesting that he's not as big on hiding things as the rest of them. This is not the front that they'd present to any clan *other* than Crab (well, maybe Mantis, and possibly certain of the lion, but not most). If it's actually who he is, rather than purely a front, then he's not the most subtle of operators. It also makes it a bit more likely that he's here on his own initiative.
Hmmm....
Winged Knight
Still just a crazy man with a wolf on his head
- Location
- Texas
Etiquette Roll: 6k3=45
What is it with you all and etiquette rolls...
Anyway, under normal circumstances it would indeed be the lowest status person who introduces the higher status people. However, you and Shasa are of equal Status despite that you have more fame than her. Shirou, despite being of lower status, is also a monk. Monks fall into a nebulous area, because you never know if that monk was someone important or not before retiring and becoming a monk.
However, you do know Shirou entered into the monastery of Shinden Osano-wo as a child. So you can be pretty darn certain he's not a former daimyo or anything like that. But again, even with that he's still a monk. If Shirou wants to introduce you and Shasa, he certainly can. However, just because of how strangely monks stand in the social order this isn't something to necessarily rely on.
What is it with you all and etiquette rolls...
Anyway, under normal circumstances it would indeed be the lowest status person who introduces the higher status people. However, you and Shasa are of equal Status despite that you have more fame than her. Shirou, despite being of lower status, is also a monk. Monks fall into a nebulous area, because you never know if that monk was someone important or not before retiring and becoming a monk.
However, you do know Shirou entered into the monastery of Shinden Osano-wo as a child. So you can be pretty darn certain he's not a former daimyo or anything like that. But again, even with that he's still a monk. If Shirou wants to introduce you and Shasa, he certainly can. However, just because of how strangely monks stand in the social order this isn't something to necessarily rely on.
Sirrocco
Pedantic
The image he's showing is, I think, more deniable than anything else. We're Crab. We might like it, in which case, cool - run with it. If we don't like it, though, he's "obviously" not a very good Scorpion, and the scorpion establishment can try again with a more cultured operator, a more suave attempt, and a bit more information to get them started.
It's entirely possible that this guy is a Soshuro actor - especially if they're looking to include him. Living among the crab for weeks at a time is useful when you're trying to build a face.
Our mother is Best Mom. She's a rank 5 Kaiu, and we'd have to make willpower rolls in order to avoid lashing out at anyone who suggested otherwise. Don't you remember getting the armor?
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Sirrocco
Pedantic
Where are you getting this?
Didn't our historic have our mother being a hidden scorpion? If not, sorry.
Edit.
Yes, she was: post 102 has a mention of her being a scorpion...
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EtchedSteel
*mumble mumble*
- Location
- Lima. Peru
No it didn't. Not that I remember.
Also that would be interesting, to have a scorpion joining our party. A bit disrespectful that is (although not enough) but there must be because of some booze he got somwhere...
To quote something I read once: "We're gonna leak a lot of information, so the trick is to leak the least posible." How much attention we want from the Scorpion now? We already have, since they knew we were accompaning Yasuki-sama on his journey.
And lastly, I made a edit on my previous post. By "she" I was refering to a "he", and by "he" I was refering to Shirou, so there's that. If it caused some confusion, I offer my humbly apologies.
EDIT:
EDIT2: Welp...
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Winged Knight
Still just a crazy man with a wolf on his head
- Location
- Texas
Kaiu Kana is most definitely not a Scorpion. Sosuke doesn't have any Scorpion relations that he knows of, or if there are any they go back several generations and he isn't aware of them. That post in 102 is taking about a time that Sosuke punched a Scorpion in the face, not that his mother is a Scorpion Samurai. That was a little bit when Sosuke was 12 and he ended a betrothal negotiation.
Sirrocco
Pedantic
I'm guessing then that that "she" was meant to be a "he"? That would seem to be the source of confusion - as the only other people mentioned at that point are the (known to be male) Scorpion and Mom.
I have a suspicion that the fact that we reacted to "Scorpion lying" with "punch in face" may have had something to do with their choice of School for us.
EtchedSteel
*mumble mumble*
- Location
- Lima. Peru
At least it explains our brash nature.
Winged Knight
Still just a crazy man with a wolf on his head
- Location
- Texas
As I see it, Sosuke punched the prospective fiancee's brother in the face when he thought said brother was being a little jerk. It turned into a brawl from there, and all negotiations of possible future marriage were called off after that point. So yeah, just a little pronoun misunderstanding.
Unless, of course, I'm reading this wrong and Gman had Sosuke punch the prospective fiancee in the face. Which is also a possible interpretation. Regardless, it means Kaiu Kana is not a Scorpion Samurai.
Unless, of course, I'm reading this wrong and Gman had Sosuke punch the prospective fiancee in the face. Which is also a possible interpretation. Regardless, it means Kaiu Kana is not a Scorpion Samurai.
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Winged Knight
Still just a crazy man with a wolf on his head
- Location
- Texas
Gotta say, I'm enjoying the discussion. I like that y'all are so invested that you'll have gotten really invested. It makes for very interesting reading.
Now we come to the big question. What exactly is the vote going to be?
Now we come to the big question. What exactly is the vote going to be?
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I'd like to argue this point. As long as we keep away from anything related to our current trip we could tell some stories. Tell tales of the Shadowlands, of the attacks, of the Nezumi, and so forth. Sure, it might lead them to connect the dots about us going to the Dragon to ask for Jade, but honestly, if they know about the Dragon having Jade and not sharing as much, they can connect the dots about us going there, even if we don't tell them anything at all. We are crab, we always think the Shadowlands are going to attack and we always want more Jade.
al103
Grumpy Russian Bear (SV edition)
- Location
- Russia, Krasnoyarsk
About pointing the fact about Scorpion dying last being an insult... well, dying last is half of the point of being Scorpion... other being dying first. You are ether die first meeting (and probably stalling) an unknown enemy or you die last as your duty to deliver important information about enemy. No, it's not insult, it's just being Scorpion.
There is another group that lives by similar rule which Sosuke is very well acquainted with... being his family and all that.
There is another group that lives by similar rule which Sosuke is very well acquainted with... being his family and all that.
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Sirrocco
Pedantic
No. You misunderstand. They know we're going to the Dragon. They know we're going to ask for Jade. They *don't* know that we're going as a storyteller. If we keep a low enough profile, and don't bring any Scorpion along, they won't dig enough to find out. Yasuki-sama wants that, in particular, to be kept as a secret (probably to increase the impact when he pulls it out). Thus, nothing that would paint us as a storyteller.I'd like to argue this point. As long as we keep away from anything related to our current trip we could tell some stories. Tell tales of the Shadowlands, of the attacks, of the Nezumi, and so forth. Sure, it might lead them to connect the dots about us going to the Dragon to ask for Jade, but honestly, if they know about the Dragon having Jade and not sharing as much, they can connect the dots about us going there, even if we don't tell them anything at all. We are crab, we always think the Shadowlands are going to attack and we always want more Jade.
Fortunately, we have a ready-made topic to talk on that will let us be plenty friendly without really talking about ourselves at all.
[x] Introduce both ourselves and Shasa.
[x] "The play was... fascinating. Very moving. I suppose that, living here, you must have opportunity to see plays like this all the time, but I've never seen anything like it in the Crab lands. Do you take in such plays often?"
[x] Get him talking on the topic if you can.
[x] At some point, express an interest in seeing Shiro no Shosuro - though you don't know if you'll have the opportunity. Ask him if he knows anything of the place.
[x] Get him talking on *that* topic, if you can.
[x] If he turns to questioning us, openly admit our mission, and do what you can to convince him of the seriousness of the situation with the Shadowlands.
- [x] If asked about our role, the two Crab were assigned to Yasuki Goro as yojimbo, and are fulfilling those duties to the best of our ability. Shirou will, of course, answer for himself.
- [x] If asked why we were not with him, say that he was invited to some sort of meeting, and it was given to us to understand that our company was not desired.
- [x] If he implies anything untoward, act scandalized (possibly even a bit horrified) that he would suggest such things about his own Diamyo (let alone the honorable Yasuki-sama).
[x] Also, Shirou's been getting a bit itchy about Doing Something Physical. This guy seems pretty physical. Perhaps Shirou could share some enlightenment with him, and/or we could a bit of light sparring all around.
[x] In general, present as a serious, straightforward Crab, who is better as a listener than a talker, and who has just had an amazing artistic experience that has opened his eyes to new possibilities. Also, avoid lying. We're not any good at it. Some degree of tactical obliviousness may be in order, though.
We might get some useful information here or there. Keeping him talking means that *we're* not talking, and thus far less likely to spill secrets - and he seems like the kind of guy who likes an appreciative audience. Going with the "Wow, this thing your clan is known for that you seem to know stuff about is completely awesome" plan is great for general inter-clan amity, and lets him bask a bit in the glow of reflected glory. Having us run the introductions shouldn't be a problem - we are the same status after all - and has a chance of both being a bit flattering to Shasa and throwing off his read of things. We don't lead with the mission/shadowlands threat so that we can use it if the topic turns to us - the argument about the threat may be a bit more effective if we're not stampeding it out first thing, and it gives us a "topic about us" that we can use to deflect from any other questions. The bit about the Diamyo and the meeting is a bit of amusement - I want to see if we can manage to both score a palpable hit and sell the idea that it was entirely unintentional. I suspect that Shasa may be the better choice to set that one up (and it's more likely to occur to her).
This may be too much vote for one turn. I figure, though, first this lets the QM pick and choose which bits inspire him, and second, throwing more stuff at it makes it that much less likely that the topic will stray where we don't want it to go.
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