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Gestalt (Human Group Mind in WH40K)

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Skjadir said:
For several reasons the biggest one being that T3 heavy already includes T3 Fuel.
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!!
T3 Heavy Industry lets us make T3 Fuel?!
Are you sure?
If that's the case, I'm very enthused, the ability to drop the T3 Fuel Refinery from the list of big-yet-eventually-necessary projects would be great!

Other than that, the only problem I'm seeing is that I can't recall whether we actually have to build a T3 Hydroponics facility before we can research the shipboard version, or if just researching the non-shipboard version first was the only prerequisite.

I'm hoping to get T3 Heavy at least started, because it's the key to T3 Repair Parts, which are the key to the sustainability of our ship. Even if we don't build one on this planet, getting some of that research time in is a good start on a long project, and its a good thing to default to when we have a lull in production and an excess of work hours. Like now.

After that... Yes, our existing T3 Shipboard Light Industry will likely supply our Light Industry needs for a while, but should anything happen to our ship (which its better to plan on eventually happening anyway), we will need the ability to build replacements for everything on it, and that means researching T3 Light Industry so that we can later research the Shipboard version of it. Of course its certainly not an immediate problem, which is why that one was listed last.

Why, how would your plan be different?
 
Enthusiast#117 said:
Other than that, the only problem I'm seeing is that I can't recall whether we actually have to build a T3 Hydroponics facility before we can research the shipboard version, or if just researching the non-shipboard version first was the only prerequisite.
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No need to build. Technically, we don't even need to research non-shipboard.
 
10ebbor10 said:
No need to build. Technically, we don't even need to research non-shipboard.
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... only 'technically'? is there's a drawback to not doing so?

Do we have stats for this somewhere? Comparative research values? The end-of-turn spoilers don't seem to have what I'm looking for and all I remember is a benchmark, something like 150% base research cost for shipboard versions of things.

If there's no drawback to it, I'm up for skipping researching the planetside version.

I'll start looking, back through the thread. I'm sure we got hard numbers somewhere.
 
Trondason said:
It will take time, but it's not like we are going anywhere soon. Going off the pattern of tech 1,2, and 3, tech 4 will cost 134.4 million emh. 14.6 years completley focused on that (assuming 20 hour work week and 75% efficiency), 29.4 if we only spend half of our manpower on it.
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I haven't decided on the exact numbers yet. I might just use the same pattern I used for tech level 1, 2, and 3, I might use a different pattern, or I might add additional requirements.

Note, however, that advancing in tech level is not intended to be easy. I envision this quest as spanning hundreds of in-game years at a minimum, possibly up to a thousand.

Eris knows IC just how difficult the task is, so I'll share this much with you: Using purely conventional means and assuming few distractions, expect reaching tech level 4 to take at least 250 years.
Enthusiast#117 said:
!!
T3 Heavy Industry lets us make T3 Fuel?!
Are you sure?
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Correct. All heavy industry can also function as a refinery - I originally intended for refineries and such to be wholly abstracted into heavy industry, but added a refinery option when I realized that you might prefer to have fuel sooner rather than everything later.
Adhoc vote count started by Driven by Apathy on Apr 18, 2019 at 6:19 PM, finished with 43 posts and 22 votes.
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Enthusiast#117 said:
... only 'technically'? is there's a drawback to not doing so?

Do we have stats for this somewhere? Comparative research values? The end-of-turn spoilers don't seem to have what I'm looking for and all I remember is a benchmark, something like 150% base research cost for shipboard versions of things.

If there's no drawback to it, I'm up for skipping researching the planetside version.

I'll start looking, back through the thread. I'm sure we got hard numbers somewhere.
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Here you go
Driven by Apathy said:
All items, be they immaterial such as new designs, or tangible such as battlecruisers, will have their cost quantified in effective man hours. Shipboard facilities will require an additional 50% development & construction cost. You can also disassemble most planetary facilities and take them with you as cargo, though they won't be operational while stored this way.
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An additional 50%, as far as I can tell there is not a cost to just skip. Also, disassemble one to assemble another, it's very cheap to disassemble ship stuff to build normal stuff, but the other way around might as well just build it from scratch. If I'm reading this right, that is. So we could load up "Colony Ships" with a bunch of facilities, that we can rapidly convert into permanent assets on whatever new planet.
Driven by Apathy said:
100% of the cost of the ground version for conversion from ground to shipboard.
25% of the cost of the ground version for conversion from shipboard to ground.
25% of the cost of the ground version for disassembly. The same for reassembly at the new location.
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Driven by Apathy said:
I haven't decided on the exact numbers yet. I might just use the same pattern I used for tech level 1, 2, and 3, I might use a different pattern, or I might add additional requirements.

Note, however, that advancing in tech level is not intended to be easy. I envision this quest as spanning hundreds of in-game years at a minimum, possibly up to a thousand.

Eris knows IC just how difficult the task is, so I'll share this much with you: Using purely conventional means and assuming few distractions, expect reaching tech level 4 to take at least 250 years.
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... Damn, son. That is at least 10x that of Tech 3.


Edit:
Running some numbers
Assuming average pop growth of 0.1%, average efficiency of 75%, 20 hour work week, that's 2.6 billion manhours, 38x the cost of Tech 3 Light Industry. This is assuming we focus, and since his use of "at least" it makes it sound like that is a fair assumption. Probably longer.
 
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Okay, so skipping straight to shipboard the research progression would be:

1) T3 Shipboard Hydroponics
2) T3 Heavy Industry
3) T3 Light Industry

Are people generally okay with this?
 
The update is mostly done, but still needs some fine-tuning. Tired now, so I'll post it tomorrow after all.

In further news, starting tomorrow I'm on vacation and will have plenty of time until the 1st of May, so updates should be fairly swift for the next week and a half.
 
mrttao said:
I wonder if we could capture some of them for interrogation about the imperium at large. Maybe blow their ship up while they are exploring and then collect the explorers one by one?

Could lead to us developing "camouflage" where we splatter gold and aquilas everywhere and pretend to be a normal imperial planet? in a normal society that would be problematic but for a hive mind the ruse can be maintained...

On the other hand, its probably best to focus on hiding and building up for now. And if they disappear there might be a follow up. But if they return and report "nothing of interest" it buys us time
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I suggested something similar before in that we should look at this as a really useful opportunity rather than a setback.

Well at the time I was thinking of grabbing some people on the edges (they went missing, nothing unusual about it :whistle:) and trying to incorporate them into the Gestalt. But I also like the idea of just smashing their ship and grabbing them all at once so we don't waste any time in messing around and so we can grab all their resources.

Just think about it, in the future we could be adding entire planets to the human hivemind. I'm sure everyone would be honored to be a part of it.
 
Adding people by force is extremely unwise. We want to be able to add people, but we need to have various ways to screen for Chaos corruption.

There is almost certainly a t4 or 5 item that we can use to download the memories of someone and take a look through them. That should be mandatory for all additions. We do not want a Chaos cultist.
 
I was thinking more along the lines of giving them truth drugs and asking them questions. I think adding people by force is very unwise. Especially if they are imperials who grew up on imperial dogma.

Then again if we can get psykers, could we just mindwipe someone and then add them? So I guess there are instances where it is viable. Still I wouldn't do it carelessly. Also, we probably are a psyker entity since we are a hivemind...

Robotninja said:
Adding people by force is extremely unwise. We want to be able to add people, but we need to have various ways to screen for Chaos corruption.
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I had not even considered accidentally adding a chaos cultist...
Are we even aware of chaos being a thing that exists IC? heck most of the imperium doesn't know chaos is a thing that exists
 
Enthusiast#117 said:
!!
T3 Heavy Industry lets us make T3 Fuel?!
Are you sure?
If that's the case, I'm very enthused, the ability to drop the T3 Fuel Refinery from the list of big-yet-eventually-necessary projects would be great!

Other than that, the only problem I'm seeing is that I can't recall whether we actually have to build a T3 Hydroponics facility before we can research the shipboard version, or if just researching the non-shipboard version first was the only prerequisite.

I'm hoping to get T3 Heavy at least started, because it's the key to T3 Repair Parts, which are the key to the sustainability of our ship. Even if we don't build one on this planet, getting some of that research time in is a good start on a long project, and its a good thing to default to when we have a lull in production and an excess of work hours. Like now.

After that... Yes, our existing T3 Shipboard Light Industry will likely supply our Light Industry needs for a while, but should anything happen to our ship (which its better to plan on eventually happening anyway), we will need the ability to build replacements for everything on it, and that means researching T3 Light Industry so that we can later research the Shipboard version of it. Of course its certainly not an immediate problem, which is why that one was listed last.

Why, how would your plan be different?
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i would go for stuff that we need/want in the short term.
Some of the main points are military equipment/gear, vehicles and things like missiles.
For the civilan side i would finish the research for Hydroponics if we haven´t finished that* and then do the research for Cybernetic Augmentation Facility and the Human Reproduction Center

*no to the ship version for the cost and for the amount of space that would take inside the ship.
 
Fehu said:
But wouldn't it be better to have the tech ready if we become a nomadic space fleet further down the path?
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that isn´t going to happen for a long long time if ever simply because we need to be able to repair our ships and that needs T3 parts which need T3 heavy industry and the ability to build more ships. I think it is more likely that we get to T5 before that happens.
 
I don't thinking adding people is going to be very worthwhile. Trauma and stress can be devastating for the gestalt, we don't need to add any more.
 
Eris is the gestalt of all the people that make it up. Personally, I wouldn't want anyone to join unless they are both willing (as otherwise their resentment of Eris may become part of Eris in turn) and not overly worshipful of any other warp entity (as few to none of those will be well-inclined to Eris).
 
So, thinking about it further. In terms of population quantity, if we need more we can always just use an iron womb with donated sperm and eggs to produce arbitrary number of children. Which can then be raised by Eris directly or we can get the gestalt members to each raise a dozen kids...
Actually we might want to get on it as soon as we got proper farms and industry built.

Although in retrospect iron womb might not actually work, as babies are born part of eris now. And to begin with the creation of eris was a warpstorm related accident that took our cybernetics to the next level. Just putting cybernetics in someone will probably not add them.

As for forcibly acquiring knowledge, interrogation drugs, direct brain scans, or eventually psyker mindreading.
That said, eventually we will probably start conquering planets and we need to do something with the local pop... however, it might be safest to add young children as they are born instead of adding the adults. Although I imagine some sort of screening process to find adults we are willing to add might become a thing one day.

Actually now that I think about it, I am wondering about abhumans and even nonhumans. Thinking about it, I imagine all those things are doable with the right research. But it will take time and effort to learn how to do it correctly.
 
mrttao said:
So, thinking about it further. In terms of population quantity, if we need more we can always just use an iron womb with donated sperm and eggs to produce arbitrary number of children. Which can then be raised by Eris directly or we can get the gestalt members to each raise a dozen kids...
Actually we might want to get on it as soon as we got proper farms and industry built.

Although in retrospect iron womb might not actually work, as babies are born part of eris now. And to begin with the creation of eris was a warpstorm related accident that took our cybernetics to the next level. Just putting cybernetics in someone will probably not add them.

As for forcibly acquiring knowledge, interrogation drugs, direct brain scans, or eventually psyker mindreading.
That said, eventually we will probably start conquering planets and we need to do something with the local pop... however, it might be safest to add young children as they are born instead of adding the adults. Although I imagine some sort of screening process to find adults we are willing to add might become a thing one day.

Actually now that I think about it, I am wondering about abhumans and even nonhumans. Thinking about it, I imagine all those things are doable with the right research. But it will take time and effort to learn how to do it correctly.
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Cloning bods won't help since people don't want more kids, even if they can physically make more.
 
mrttao said:
Actually now that I think about it, I am wondering about abhumans and even nonhumans. Thinking about it, I imagine all those things are doable with the right research. But it will take time and effort to learn how to do it correctly.
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We can already do gene-engineering, and we can research and build a cybernetics facility if we feel like it.
 
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Turn 5 - 40,118 CE, McMurdo
  • Threadmarks
    • The year is 40,118 CE.

    Evidently, things have not gone as planned. For the Imperials, that is.

    --------------------------------------------------------------
    Two years earlier.
    --------------------------------------------------------------

    "Poor bastards..." he shakes his head as he observes the small Imperial convoy via satellite. Being Eris' most experienced sensor operator, Mikhail Patterson has spent quite a bit of time watching the Imperials lately.

    "Poor bastards how? What's going on?" His friend Jeanette has just arrived to relieve him at the sensor station. The Imperials are nearly on the other side of the planet right now, but Eris still wants eyes on them round the clock.

    "They're drove right into a snowstorm. Their own satellites should have seen it coming too, but their headquarters didn't warn that convoy until a few minutes ago. Maybe some kind of technical defect? I'm not sure."

    It's the nasty kind storm too, bringing the Deep Cold from the pole. Even inside the Reliant's fully enclosed and heated mining vehicles those get pretty damn uncomfortable. For one of the Imperials' semi-motorized exploration convoys? At least a few people are probably going to die. And this isn't the first time either. So far, by your best educated guess, the Imperial expedition has lost at least 13 people.

    --------------------------------------------------------------

    The Imperials have remained on McMurdo for about as long as you expected. It's been several years already. During this time, you have hunkered down in your little settlement and ceased all operations outside. You have not wasted this time, however - development and prototyping of Shipboard Hydroponics has proceeded well. While you planned for a more miniaturized shipboard facility from the start, building a larger but cheaper version on solid ground should also be quite possible with the blueprints you have, even without causing further development costs. Having a fully operational shipboard hydroponics facility already available for study has greatly accelerated development.
    • Development of Shipboard Hydroponics (Tech Level 3) complete. 10,113,781 man hours were required to finish the project.
    • Development of Heavy Industry (Tech Level 3) continues. 35,625,798 man hours were spent working on this. 131,819,994 effective man hours remain until completion.
    • Your schedule for Juvenat treatments had to be moved around a bit, but you've managed to get your plans back on track: 9,517,320 man hours were spent ensuring that the treatments will remain effective for the entire population until 40,123 CE.
    Being restricted from leaving your settlement is somewhat annoying, but it's not a major problem for you. Your reserves of raw materials and your ability to recycle were more than up to the task of keeping everyone supplied with the necessities of life (and some not-so-necessary things). In 40,116 CE, a drama group was formed on the Reliant, and you have to say they're actually surprisingly good. They're staging mostly Neo-Jovian plays from the 19th millennium, characterized by their sudden plot twists and frequently breaking the 4th wall. Of course in order to really enjoy the plays, the audience has to focus a bit, lest they unintentionally spoiler themselves through Eris. But that's part of what makes it fun.

    Meanwhile, the closest the Imperials ever get to you is about 600 kilometers, with no sign that they're aware of your presence.
    • Eris gains 400 exp for surviving another 4 years.
    • Eris gains 400 exp for remaining hidden for 4 years.
    By late 40,117 CE the Imperial expedition seems to be preparing to leave. On their last trip to orbit they retrieved most of their satellites, then landed close to their previous location. Their remaining expeditions return from the icy wastelands of McMurdo, the dropship collects them before lifting off and heading for the outer system where their mothership originally arrived.

    And there they wait.

    And wait.

    And wait some more. And then...

    --------------------------------------------------------------

    If it weren't for your space observation satellites, chances are you wouldn't even have noticed the explosion when it occurred. As it is, you did notice. But as to the cause... you have absolutely no idea.

    "How bad is the damage?"

    He shrugs. "Severe. It's difficult to discern details at this distance, but their primary drive unit has definitely been reduced to a fraction of it's original capacity. They're not completely immobilized, but they're limping. Badly so. And probably running out of oxygen, which would explain why they're trying to get back to McMurdo."

    "Limping and making their way back here... this could be problem. If their mothership enters orbit to retrieve them..."

    "Chances are they still wouldn't notice us. But yes, it's a concern. But mostly a theoretical one. Here. Take a look at this."

    Studying the sensor readouts, she immediately understands why he sounds so grim when saying that. With damage like that...

    "There's no way they're going to manage a controlled landing. Not with their ship in this condition. And we don't even know if their air will last until they get here."

    He nods. "My thoughts exactly. If they're lucky, there might be survivors. If they're not..."

    The question is, what are you going to do about it?

    [ ] Warm up the Reliant's systems, lift off, and go rescue the Imperial expedition. (-1 unit of fuel)
    [ ] You can't risk being spotted by the Imperial capital ship if it should return. Prepare the shuttles for a less visible rescue operation when the dropship enters orbit.
    [ ] Still too risky. Wait until they make planetfall, then send an expedition to rescue any survivors.
    [ ] As harsh as it sounds, this is not your problem. These people would probably want you dead if they knew you were here. You will remain hidden.
    Your plan for this turn can cover however many years you want! Only whole years, please, I'm not going to simulate months and days. Simply decide how much your people will work to know how many man-hours you have available - then decide on what you wish to do with those man-hours, and give me a list of items numbered by priority. Excess man-hours left over from the last year of a plan can be used the next turn.

    [ ] Write in

    There are 12.441 of you. You all work 50 weeks every year. How long will you all work each week?

    Work Hours / Stress Caused

    10 / 0 %
    15 / 5 %
    20 / 10 %
    25 / 17.5 %
    30 / 25 %
    35 / 32.5 %
    40 / 40 %
    45 / 50 %
    50 / 60 %
    55 / 70 %
    60 / 80 %
    65 / 100 %
    70 / 120 %
    75 / 140 %
    80 / 160 %
    85 / 180 %

    You have Stealthy Space Observation Satellites (Tech Level 3) orbiting your colony. The star system is being monitored.
    • Nothing of interest has been found.
    • Nearby star systems appear uninteresting.
    You have Stealthy Surface Observation Satellites (Tech Level 3) orbiting your colony. Your colony has been surveyed.
    • Ore deposits have been found.

    You can feed 20,000 people per year. With with some light rationing, this can be stretched to 25,000 people.

    Total food production is:
    • Shipboard Hydroponics (Tech Level 3): Food for 10,000 people
      • 666,666 mh per year required
    • Hothouse (Tech Level 2): Food for 10,000 people
      • 1,000,000 mh per year required
    1 unit of food (feeds 10,000 for one year, requires 1 cargo space) is being stored each year.
    Current Food Reserve: 2 units

    Your population benefits from regular juvenat treatments, extending the average expected lifespan to 240 years:
    • Genetics & Rejuvenat Facility (Tech Level 3): Extends the average expected lifespan to 240 years
      • 200 emh per person to maintain juvenat treatments, scientific productivity modifiers apply
        • 3,146,497 mh were required last year to maintain juvenat treatments
        • Suspended due to frontloaded juvenat treatments.

    You have 1 unit of tech level 3 light industry up and running.

    Total light industrial capacity is:
    • 8,400,000 mh per year (tech level 3)
    Total heavy industrial capacity is:
    • None
    You have tech level 1 fuel refinery up and running.

    Are there any new designs you want to develop, or things you want to build? List by priority, please.

    Food:

    Heated Greenhouse (Tech Level 1):
    Properly isolated and made from materials actually meant for the job, with a cleverly designed passive heating system. All biodegradable waste is composted and used as fertilizer. With this, you at least won't have to feel like neo-barbarians scrambling in the dirt anymore.

    Development cost: 4,000,000 effective man-hours (emh)
    Construction cost: 2,000,000 emh
    Production: 1 unit per year
    Required workforce: 2.000.000 man-hours (mh) per year


    Industry

    Light Industry (Tech Level 1):
    Simple Light Industry for technologically simple projects. Not that useful, but easier to design and establish than more advanced alternatives. A small fleet of mining vehicles keeps the whole factory supplied with resources.

    Development cost: 16,800,000 emh
    Construction cost: 8,400,000 emh
    Capacity/Production: 8,400,000 mh per year

    Light Industry (Tech Level 2):
    Outdated by your standards, but there are entire interstellar civilizations who never reached this level. The ability to casually create plasma reactors and similar items is nothing to scoff at. A small fleet of long-ranged, fusion-powered mining vehicles keeps the whole factory supplied with resources.

    Development cost: 33,600,000 emh
    Construction cost: 16,800,000 emh
    Capacity/Production: 8,400,000 mh per year

    Light Industry (Tech Level 3):
    The Federation would have considered this just barely adequate to run a civilian economy with. Not too different from the shipboard industry you had with you when you arrived on the reliant.

    Development cost: 67,200,000 emh
    Construction cost: 33,600,000 emh
    Capacity/Production: 8,400,000 mh per year

    Light Industry (Tech Level 4):
    You have the science! Time to get the engineering. Design a more advanced light industrial complex, and improve your technological base.

    Development cost: ?
    Construction cost: ?
    Capacity/Production: 8,400,000 mh per year


    Heavy Industry Tech Level 1:
    If you want to build heavy vehicles or starships, heavy industry is indispensable. It doesn't necessarily have to be sophisticated industry of course, just heavy.

    Development Cost: 40,000,000 emh
    Construction cost: 20,000,000 emh
    Production capacity: 8,400,000 mh per year

    Heavy Industry (Tech Level 2):
    What kind of luddite powers their starships with deuterium-tritium fusion? Plasma reactors are where it's at! But before you can build the reactors you first need to build the industry, and before you can build the industry you first need to design it. You still won't be able to make replacement parts for the Reliant with this, though...

    Development Cost: 80,000,000 emh
    Construction cost: 40,000,000 emh
    Production capacity: 8,400,000 mh per year

    Heavy Industry (Tech Level 3):
    Technological regression: Not even once!
    Sure, coming up with designs for heavy industry that's actually up to spec is going to take a lot of time and work, but unless you want to downgrade, sooner or later you'll have to make the effort.

    Development Cost: 160,000,000 emh
    Construction cost: 80,000,000 emh
    Production capacity: 8,400,000 mh per year


    Fuel Refinery (Tech Level 2):
    Deuterium and tritium will keep your reactors running in a pinch, but you can do better than that! Or at least you can once you've designed and built this refinery.

    Development Cost: 33,600,000 emh
    Construction cost: 16,800,000 emh
    Production capacity: 8,400,000 mh per year - can only produce fuel

    Fuel Refinery (Tech Level 3):
    If you're gonna build a refinery, it should at least be a nice one!

    Development Cost: 67,200,000 emh
    Construction cost: 33,600,000 emh
    Production capacity: 8,400,000 mh per year - can only produce fuel


    Utility

    Human Reproduction Center (Tech Level 3):
    Growing their baby in a tank rather than in their bodies became fairly popular among women in the Federation once technology allowed for it. Though far from everybody chooses that option.

    Development cost: 16,000,000 emh
    Construction cost: 8,000,000 emh
    Upkeep: NA
    Utility: Might lead to a very minor increase in productivity by removing the need for pregnancy for soon-to-be mothers.

    Cybernetic Augmentation Facility (Tech Level 3):
    Cybernetics weren't all that popular in the Federation, and comparatively little research was being done on the subject. Still, the technology was available. A Cybernetic Augmentation Facility allows for the development, installation and maintenance of cybernetics.

    Development cost: 16,000,000 emh
    Construction cost: 8,000,000 emh
    Upkeep: NA
    Utility: Will allow for the development, installation and maintenance of cybernetics.


    Items

    Camouflage

    Radar-absorbent Camouflage Netting (Tech Level 1):
    In addition to providing optical camouflage, the material used in this camouflage netting will also defeat most radar-based detection methods.

    Development cost: 1,000,000 emh
    Construction cost: 500,000 emh per building camouflaged (the Reliant counts as a building), up to 1/2 can be paid in alloys
    Upkeep: NA
    Utility: Prevents / delays detection from orbit by optical methods or radar.

    Emissions-Management System (Tech Level 2):
    Advanced camouflage netting combined with a number of more advanced systems to help discharge excess heat from industrial processes deep into the ground rather than somewhere more easily detected.

    Development cost: 2,000,000 emh
    Construction cost: 550,000 emh per building camouflaged (the Reliant counts as a building), up to 1/2 can be paid in alloys
    Upkeep: NA
    Utility: Prevents / delays detection from orbit by optical methods, radar, infrared sensors, and a number of other sensor systems.


    Sensors

    Surface Observation Satellites (Tech Level 1):
    A number of satellites meant to observe a planet's surface. In addition to surveying the weather, these satellites can also survey a planet's surface. Your agriculture is fully enclosed and not all that vulnerable to the weather outside, but having the ability to predict the weather might still be useful. At the very least, your resource harvesting expeditions won't end up driving into the middle of a snowstorm. Might help your industry run slightly more smoothly. The satellites are equipped with maneuvering thrusters to adjust their orbit – or deorbit in a hurry, should that prove necessary.

    Development cost: 1,000,000 emh
    Construction cost: 500,000 emh, up to 1/2 can be paid in alloys
    Upkeep: NA
    Utility: You'll know what the weather's gonna be like and be able to survey the planet.


    Space Observation Satellites (Tech Level 1):
    A number of stealthy satellites meant to observe observe space and tip you off if anything approaches the planet. The high-resolution passive sensor systems on these satellites cover most of the electromagnetic spectrum, and various active sensors are available on demand. If anybody fires up a starship-sized plasma drive within the star system, you're going to notice. The satellites are equipped with rudimentary maneuvering thrusters to adjust their orbit – or deorbit in a hurry, should that prove necessary.

    Development cost: 1,000,000 emh
    Construction cost: 500,000 emh, up to 1/2 can be paid in alloys
    Upkeep: NA
    Utility: Advance warning of visitors – hopefully. You'll also be able to make a somewhat informed guess about what you'd find in nearby starsystems.


    Defensive Systems

    Autogun Turrets (Tech Level 1):
    Any wild animal that would trespass on your territory is going to regret it – briefly. The target-recognition software is a bit twitchy, but you'll make sure to equip everyone who has a need to go outside with IFF transmitters. In any case, for a group mind like you it shouldn't be to hard to avoid friendly fire incidents.

    Development cost: 1,000,000 emh
    Construction cost: 500,000 emh, up to 1/2 can be paid in alloys
    Upkeep: NA
    Utility: Keeps intruders out, by killing them dead.

    Lasgun Turrets (Tech Level 2):
    Any wild animal that would trespass on your territory isn't even going to have time to regret it. The target-recognition software is reasonably reliable, but you'll still make sure to equip everyone who has a need to go outside with IFF transmitters. In any case, for a group mind like you it shouldn't be to hard to avoid friendly fire incidents.

    Development cost: 2,000,000 emh
    Construction cost: 550,000 emh, up to 1/2 can be paid in alloys
    Upkeep: NA
    Utility: Keeps intruders out, by killing them dead. With lasers.
    Items

    Alloys (Tech Level 3):
    Produce alloys which you can use to make all sorts of things at a later date. In essence, a way to store production for later - though at a loss.

    Production Cost: 2 effective man-hours in light or heavy industry per 1 unit of alloys
    Utility: Up to 50% of the cost of any Tech Level 3 item or building can be paid with alloys.
    Cargo Space Required: 1 unit of cargo space per 160,000 units of Tech Level 3 alloys.

    Fuel (Tech Level 1):
    Fuel will keep your reactors powered and your ship flying. Fuel of a lower tech level can still be used by more advanced reactors, but it's much less efficient and you'll need more of it.

    Production Cost: 80,000 emh per unit of fuel

    Camouflage

    Camouflage Netting (Tech Level 0):
    It won't make you invisible, but it's easy to produce, cheap, and will prevent detection by some lousy satellite in orbit with a camera bolted to it.

    Construction cost: 450,000 emh per building camouflaged (the Reliant counts as a building), up to 1/2 can be paid in alloys
    Upkeep: NA
    Utility: Prevents / delays detection from orbit by simple optical methods.

    "Chameleon" Camouflage System (Tech Level 3):
    This combination of optical camouflage, emissions management, and a number of radiation-bending field generators will make detection by any sort of sensor system relying on the electromagnetic spectrum extremely difficult, at least unless whoever is looking takes a very close look. Thankfully the generators are easy to maintain and power, and don't require noteworthy upkeep.

    Construction cost: 600,000 emh per building camouflaged (the Reliant counts as a building), up to 1/2 can be paid in alloys
    Upkeep: NA
    Utility: Prevents, or at least delays, detection from orbit by nearly any sensor system relying on the electromagnetic spectrum.


    Sensors

    Weather Satellites (Tech Level 0):
    A number of fairly crude and simple satellites meant to observe the weather. Your agriculture is fully enclosed and not all that vulnerable to the weather outside, but having the ability to predict the weather might still be useful. At the very least, your resource harvesting expeditions won't end up driving into the middle of a snowstorm. The satellites are equipped with rudimentary maneuvering thrusters in case you ever have to deorbit them in a hurry.

    Construction cost: 450,000, up to 1/2 can be paid in alloys
    Upkeep: None
    Utility: You'll know what the weather's gonna be like. Might help your resource harvesting run slightly more smoothly.

    Stealthy Surface Observation Satellites (Tech Level 3):
    A number of stealthy satellites meant to observe a planet's surface. In addition to surveying the weather, these satellites can also survey a planet's surface. Your agriculture is fully enclosed and not all that vulnerable to the weather outside, but having the ability to predict the weather might still be useful. At the very least, your resource harvesting expeditions won't end up driving into the middle of a snowstorm. Might help your industry run slightly more smoothly. The satellites are designed and built to be hard to detect, and are equipped with maneuvering thrusters to adjust their orbit – or deorbit in a hurry, should that prove necessary.

    Construction cost: 600,000 emh, up to 1/2 can be paid in alloys
    Upkeep: NA
    Utility: You'll know what the weather's gonna be like and be able to survey the planet. Stealthily.


    Rudimentary Space Observation Satellites (Tech Level 0):
    A number of fairly crude and simple satellites featuring radar and infrared sensors meant to tip you off if anything approaches the planet. Not exactly high tech, but if anybody fires up a starship-sized plasma drive within roughly a million kilometers, you're going to notice. The satellites are equipped with rudimentary maneuvering thrusters in case you ever have to deorbit them in a hurry.

    Construction cost: 450,000, up to 1/2 can be paid in alloys
    Upkeep: NA
    Utility: Advance warning of visitors – hopefully.

    Stealthy Space Observation Satellites (Tech Level 3):
    A number of satellites meant to observe observe space and tip you off if anything approaches the planet. The high-resolution passive sensor systems on these satellites include a gravitic sensor system, and various active sensors are available on demand. If anybody fires up a starship-sized plasma drive within the star system, you're going to notice, and at close range the gravitic sensor system will be quite difficult to hide from. The satellites are designed and built to be hard to detect, and equipped with rudimentary maneuvering thrusters to adjust their orbit – or deorbit in a hurry, should that prove necessary.

    Construction cost: 600,000 emh, up to 1/2 can be paid in alloys
    Upkeep: NA
    Utility: Advance warning of visitors – hopefully. You'll also be able to make a somewhat informed guess about what you'd find in nearby starsystems. Stealthily.


    Defensive Systems

    Barbed Wire, Fences & Cameras (Tech Level 0):
    Barbed wire and fences to keep out any wild animals – if there are any. Cameras to keep an eye on things. Might slightly slow down an infantry assault as well.

    Construction cost: 150,000, up to 1/2 can be paid in alloys
    Upkeep: NA
    Utility: Keeps intruders out.

    Volkite Turrets (Tech Level 3):
    Any wild animal that would trespass on your territory is going to get vaporized. The target-recognition software is good enough that you could probably waive IFF transmitters, but you're still going to play it safe. In any case, for a group mind like you it shouldn't be to hard to avoid friendly fire incidents.

    Construction cost: 600,000 emh, up to 1/2 can be paid in alloys
    Upkeep: NA
    Utility: Keeps intruders out, by turning them into small heaps of ash.


    Buildings

    Food:

    Rudimentary Greenhouse (Tech Level 0):
    Throw up an improvised greenhouse made from transparent plastic. It's simple enough that you won't need to do any design work beforehand, and will be sufficient to allow for agriculture in this frozen wasteland - though not very efficient agriculture.

    Construction cost: 2,000,000 effective man-hours (emh)
    Production: 1 unit of food per year (enough to feed 10,000 people)
    Required workforce: 4,000,000 man-hours per year (mh)

    Hothouse (Tech Level 2):
    A small plasma reactor keeps the plants in this actively heated and ventilated Hothouse warm and cozy. Synthesized fertilizer and biotech crops designed for the local soil ensure high yields, and numerous combine harvesters stand ready for use by your workers when it's time to bring in the crops.

    Construction cost: 4,000,000 emh
    Production: 1 unit per year
    Required workforce: 1,000,000 mh per year

    Hydroponics (Tech Level 3) (Shipboard Hydroponics Available):
    There really is no need to rely on the sun for light. Or on the ground for soil. The biotech algae used in these increasingly automated hydroponic facilities receive exactly as much light as they're meant to, while floating in exactly the kind of nutrient solution they grow in best. The final product, once harvested, is further processed to add various flavors and textures to imitate meat, vegetables, etc - the taste is so convincing you'll never know you're eating algae.

    Construction cost: 8,000,000 emh (+50% for the shipboard version, requires 25 units of free cargo space)
    Production: 1 unit per year
    Required workforce: 666,666 mh per year


    Industry

    Fuel Refinery (Tech Level 1):
    Rather than devising a complete heavy industrial base, why not settle for something more simple and specialized, like say, a fuel refinery? Sure, it doesn't solve your maintenance problem, but it will keep your ship powered up and flying for the foreseeable future.

    Construction cost: 8,400,000 emh
    Production capacity: 8,400,000 mh per year - can only produce fuel


    Utility

    Genetics & Rejuvenat Facility (Tech Level 3):
    The secret of eternal youth has been coveted by humanity since the earliest days of civilization, and possibly before that. Rejuvenat treatments bring the dream a little bit closer to reality. As long as a person receives regular rejuvenation treatments at this facility, their aging will be slowed enough to lengthen the average human lifespan to some 240 years. Eris's rejuvenation facilities are optimized for mass treatment, rather than to extending the lifespan of a few privileged individuals for as long as possible. In addition to rejuvenation treatments, this facility also allows for gene-tailored medical treatments and relatively simple genetic modification.

    Construction cost: 8,000,000 emh
    Upkeep: 200 emh to maintain treatments for 1 person, uses Science productivity instead of Industrial
    Utility: Keeps your people safe from old age. At least for a time. Expected average lifespan with this is about 240 years.

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    Attention Please: In an attempt to encourage discussion, I'm placing a moratorium on votes for the next 3 hours.
     
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    • If we rescue the Imperials, we will want to integrate them into Eris I would think. I would recommend luring them in with living standards and rejuvenat treatments and take it slow on Eris-ing them.

    If I recall correctly though, Eris members require cybernetics. We might want to get working on that. Also should raise productivity at the expense of advanced technology, but we have plenty of that.
     
    If we do help them it might be best to try and bluff them so they don't know who we are right away. Not sure how well we could bluff them though as I'm not sure how well we know the language (as in do we know it well enough to speak it clear enough to make it sound at least somewhat like we didn't just learn how to 5 minutes ago) but if we could get them talking they might be a great insight for us to learn more about the imperium since I think in character we only got the basics and even that is mostly based off of guess work. Then again we might be able to pull things from the ship itself if we just let them crash.

    Honestly I'm in favor of using shuttles to help and hopefully bluff them into thinking we're just a privately funded group who happened to be in the area or bounty hunters or something and see what we can learn about them and the imperium at large, but wouldn't be against just letting them drop and fend for themselves.
     
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