Because the sanctioned ones will have imperial conditioning that makes the navy look like free thinkers. It's unsanctioned psykers or no psykers for us unless we get ridiculously lucky.
Gestalt (Human Group Mind in WH40K)
- Thread starter Driven by Apathy
- Start date
- Sci-Fi
Because the sanctioned ones will have imperial conditioning that makes the navy look like free thinkers. It's unsanctioned psykers or no psykers for us unless we get ridiculously lucky.
- Location
- colombia
yes
the imperial are prisoners,putting them in cryostasis is like using a tranquilizer or putting a bag in a prisoners to move them between location so they cant remember where they were being held
they arent our friends,so cryostasis is humane and helps to keep them unable of being a threat until we are ready to drop themin a safe place for them and without risk of information leaks
cryostasis is the best,because by being frozen they do not age nor suffer things like emotional strife or the like
so by the time we release them,for them it would have been seconds to minutes
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- Location
- western US
that still leaves the sanctioned ones as 'better' tho, their actually trained and practiced unlike the unsanctioned ones and won't randomly blow themselves up. so your argument there is not "quality > quanity so pick unsanctioned", its "sanctioned are not likely to join us"
to be honest tho...
theres very good reasons why the imperium shoots on sight any psykers they can't immediately detain and contain, preferably in a bunker far away from anything important, and they all involve a word that starts with a 'c' and end in 'haos' along with a very UNheathy dose of definitely-not-deamons.
we'd have to find an unsanctioned psyker in the time period after their powers awaken yet also before their driven irrevocably, infectiously insane. considering for many psykers, those two events happen in the same second? we'd have to get pretty lucky in finding a psyker who won't taint Eris perminately (also keep in mind that chaos would probably LOVE to disguise a chaos-infected psyker as a sane one in the hopes of infecting us if they ever find out about us somehow or even just them wanting to get said psyker somewhere deeper in a hive before starting the explosions or something. so we will want to check for that if possable just in case)
its just simply going to be something we luck into from other methods I think; like from one of our imperials awakening which is obviously pretty unlikely as well considering the numbers that we are likely to NOT have.
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- We do not need trained psykers, we can train ourselves, what we need is people through with we can actually express the (comparatively) vast psychic power of the Gestalt
- I disagree with the Imperium having a good reason to shoot anyone on sight on the basis of 'belongs to X religiously anathema category'. They are a fascist hellhole that practices human sacrifice in the name of a xenophobic death cult
Psykers don't in fact have a habit of becoming immediately insane on "awakening" their powers, in fact some use them for years and years without realising. Pyskers can go insane from their powers, they can also become assholes because they've heard about "the witch" their entire life. And Sanctioned psykers are a write off, they're all linked to the emperor, this is what makes them sanctioned.
- Location
- colombia
fascist hellhole is a compliment compared to what the imperium is
the imperium awful is just ''yes'' a mix of all shitholes through history
I think that might just be astropaths who get soul-bonded not all sanctioned psykers.
- Location
- USA
[X]PLAN FISHING
It's not like it's the first time the Imperium's freaked out and tried to murder us, so them inevitably doing that is fine. I do expect this lovely peaceful plan to be interrupted by them being a weird death cult.
Also, if the stress from the first few years has weird side effects, let's immediately cut the rest of those years down to lower hours. Testing good. Giving ourselves stress health side effects or something bad.
It's not like it's the first time the Imperium's freaked out and tried to murder us, so them inevitably doing that is fine. I do expect this lovely peaceful plan to be interrupted by them being a weird death cult.
Also, if the stress from the first few years has weird side effects, let's immediately cut the rest of those years down to lower hours. Testing good. Giving ourselves stress health side effects or something bad.
Uhm, wouldn't it be a better idea to first spend a few years carefully infiltrating Imperial Society before we go all in on recruiting? The way things are phrased in your plan it seems to me like we go immediately from electronic surveillance to taking people for recruitment, which seems unlikely to give us decent recruits and increases the chance that we will be discovered or that people will be uncooperative.
Spend 5 years or so inserting Erisians into Imperial society first, so we are coworkers, superiors and trusted friends to the people we want to introduce to our new lifestyle, instead of random strangers trying to peddle a weird new, possibly heretical cult.
Also, I'd wager that you are trying for way too many recruits, after all Imperial humans produce 10x as much psychic power as Federation citizens. This means that 2000 new recruits would handily outproduce our current members psychic power by quite a bit and we don't yet know what effect that would have. For all we know it means that they have a more dominant voice in the Eris gestalt, making their cultural preconceptions dominant over the Federation ones. I'd go for 200 new recruits at most for the first trial run, so we can observe what happens with a magnitude of Imperials more than the ones we have already recruited.
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Alectai
Speaks Words of Wisdom... On occasion
They're not that good.
Now, I absolutely guarantee the longer we stay in one place, the more likely some rando hero-type character stumbles onto us and calls down a clusterfuck on us. But that kind of heat takes time to build, and the Imperium is--on the whole--very slow to act and not actually that good at noticing fractional rounding errors of the populace just up and vanishing unless it tends to come with "And everyone around them was ritually murdered in some strange fashion". Genestealer Cults for instance are vastly more obvious than what we're planning to do (And snowball up faster), and most of those tend to hit critical mass before anyone notices what's going on (Unless it's a strategically important world anyway)
Now, I will admit the longer we stay in one place, the more likely something just happens to stumble across our operations no matter how well we hide them, because that is the story of the Imperium in 40K. But the quieter we are, the harder it is for fate to maneuver a bloodhound into our path, which means it takes longer.
I would probably say as long as we don't get caught up in some disaster (Easier said than done, it looks like they've already bunkered up), we'd have fifty years or so. If things do get spicy, we'll have considerably less time, but we'll also get more XP and better access to opportunities.
Now, what we have noticed here.
A) Flipping someone in the actual governance is literally impossible. For all that these figures seem to be corruption catnip in universe, that doesn't seem to apply to us (As we learned here when the junior officers commanding a rando shuttle were 100% impossible to convert and in fact did everything in their power to try and kill us, well past the point where it meant anything) The implication seems to be that the Imperium is extremely well optimized against 'Soft' subversion (AKA "Other ordinary humans playing silly buggers"), which comes at the cost of them being extremely vulnerable to 'Hard' subversion (AKA 'Anything capable of forcing them to take a single forbidden action, at which point you don't need to control them anymore because their will breaks and they rapidly turn that fanaticism to their new master out of guilt'). This appears to be an intentional design to encourage said hard subversion attempts to become flagrantly obvious very quickly (Because there's nothing so prone to making grand gestures as a new convert), rather than piggyback off of a soft subversion and hitting critical mass before they reveal their true form and are too strong to be pinned down by a small force.
TL;DR: Imperials being insanely indoctrinated and yet prone to turning that fanaticism to the cause of the first person who forces them to break their conditioning is a feature, not a bug. It's a big problem for us though because we can't break through that fanaticism barrier without taking steps Eris would find repugnant. Fortunately, this conditioning is mostly focused on people who have any real influence, as we've seen from our mild success with the impressed crew of the shuttle. People who fall into the margins have the passive conditioning, but it's not strong enough to override "But I also want to have a hot meal and a safe place to sleep" instincts, which are the angle we can leverage.
B) We need to take extreme caution with regards to grabbing Psykers. Because chances are if we have identified one, so have the government. And there's no bigger red flag that the Imperium takes extremely seriously as Psykers going missing rather than being burned at a stake/murdered/imprisoned until a Black Ship picks them up. If we have to go hot to liberate some, we need to prepare to leave and never return pretty much immediately, because that's the kind of thing that gets full Inquisitors making time to peel over everything with a fine toothed comb, instead of leaving information networks and acolytes to gather data passively, and while we are very good, Inquisitors are literally magic plot devices in universe, even if you set aside their access to the best agents and best technology the Imperium can muster.
C) Aside from that, the general information is a good move to pick, it's low threat (Everyone is supposed to know this after all~~), gives us access to figure out who might be flippable. There is a risk of course that someone takes a basic question being asked as a sign that we're an imposter (Because everyone's supposed to know that, you know?), but that's relatively minor since presumably, our operatives are halfway competent--and we got our basic fumbling done with the shuttle folk.
What this means?
We absolutely want to stay the fuck away from any of the Adeptus Terra. They are at best indoctrinated enough that the moment they realize we're non-Imperial they'll do everything in their power to stop us. At worst they're already corrupted by some other power and will seek to suborn us to their true master. Grabbing a single one is a full plot arc--with commensurate rewards no doubt. Not something we can get just from regular recruiting.
We do want to have a strong presence in the underclasses, because these are the ones who are most vulnerable to breaking their conditioning without needing to step out of line. These are also the areas most likely to churn out Psykers who aren't instantly identified (And thus getting us red flagged if they disappear)
We should be ready though to make a move on targets of opportunity. The Imperium is lousy with heroes and people favored by the fates, and grabbing one of those before some other power claims them is worth being able to never come back here again.
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- Location
- being near locations is my passion.
I'd lean more to trying to find people from out of the way homesteads, espcially those that are young, and likely to die without rescue.
I'm also concerend with the mix of high stress and what feels to me as "large numbers of potential new joins" at the same time, but I am aware that my perspective on 'large number' is arbitary.
I'm also concerend with the mix of high stress and what feels to me as "large numbers of potential new joins" at the same time, but I am aware that my perspective on 'large number' is arbitary.
I would like to point out that your assumption here rests entirely on the example of the junior officers of the Imperial Navy being exceedingly hard to convert. I'm pretty sure that Imperial Navy Officers more often than not are Schola Progenium graduates, which means they have undergone some of the harshest indoctrination in the entire Imperium, to the standards of Imperial Commissars. And since they were Junior Officers they would have come right out from under the whips of their Drill Abbots, meaning their indoctrination was still incredibly fresh and unbroken from experiencing the real world.
Making assumptions about all governance officials from that example seems a bit premature to me, since a lot of organisations in the Imperiums do not indoctrinate to the standards of the Scholas, especially any local organisation like Planetary governments, PDFs or local administrations. Even the Imperial Guard usually doesn't get any Schola graduates aside from Commissars.
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They're welcome to try.
We're doing this covertly and hanging out on the ocean bottom for a reason.
WAG numbers suggest that a two hundred million population planet of average psyker incidence will have only about 110 psykers born in a decade.
And this isn't somewhere like Kalidar IV, where the prevalence of psy-reactive material juices the incidence of psykers.
We don't really have the luxury of choice if we want any at all.
If we can find a sanctioned psyker, or an astropath, who's willing to leave but non-Chaos aligned, we take them; the number of psykers who have gone over to Chaos, or just run away suggests that whatever process the Imperium uses does not actually bind loyalty.
Wouldn't have so many commissars with bolt pistols and itchy trigger fingers standing behind sanctioned psykers otherwise.
And critically, they'd come with life experience about the way they were trained that would provide further insight into the Empire.
We can't really afford to pre-emptively write anyone off.
-We need to start investing in recruiting people from the beginning.
All the groundwork has to be laid from the beginning, from surveilling people with drones, to screening and personality profiling them to making plans for how to vanish them without raising any red flags.
Furthermore, a year per person is a significant amount of time for recruiting a person; religious missionaries and cults do it faster, and we can work our way up from orphans and the more obvious fringe members of society to people like junior Admech techpriests and retired Imperial Guard/Imperial Navy personnel.
Tens to hundreds of millions of people is a large pool to draw on when you only want a couple thousand.
-We probably are not inserting Erisians longterm into Imperial society; too much vulnerability, and we don't know how noticeable Eris is to any psy-sensitive Imperials.
We will have Decepticon-style drones all over the place as surveillance drones, and might insert shapeshifting Terminator-style drones to establish cover stories, then swap out with humans when necessary, but I don't really see people living in Imperial society to establish cover stories.
Not when we can shuttle them in from the other side of the planet at short notice.
-Psyker power does not actually increase your shareholder value or influence in Eris.
We know this because we already have Imperial-born members for around forty years now, who average more psyker power than the original Erisians, and their influence on Eris is no greater.
And I'm pretty sure the GM has outright stated that Eris is governed by numbers, not psyker power.
Which is partly why I'm aiming at softcapping recruitment around 2000 new recruits/16% of our current population.
Consider the mechanics.
If psyker power governed influence on Eris, any single psyker would have disproportionate influence on Eris.
And we know, if only for game reasons, that Eris is not working that way.
To quote myself:
That's for any psykers in actual detention.-Still a Tier <1 planet with enclaves of Tier 2 tech being targeted by a Tier 3 operation.
People have canonically broken themselves out of Black Ships without outside assistance; case in point, Soloria Half-Blind , who currently roams the Screaming Vortex
We should be able to get bugs and other surveillance equipment into the fortresses at need, and outright subvert the computer systems and surveillance network in use.Soloria Half-blind
A refugee of the Imperium, Soloria Half-blind manifested her psychic powers at a young age. When the Inquisition came for her, her parents resisted, and were cut down before her eyes. She leapt on the killers, screaming with rage, but the Inquisitorial Storm Troopers brutally subdued her with the butts of their Hellguns. Soloria lost two things that day -- her left eye, and any fealty she might have had for the Imperium of Man.
Through guile and her newfound powers, she escaped the Black Ship before it left Scintilla. Stowing away on vessel after vessel, she eventually found herself travelling aboard a tramp freighter in the Maw when the Screaming Vortex swelled and plucked the hapless vessel from its course.
However, death was not Soloria's fate. The transport crashed deep within the Vortex on the Ocean World of Furia. She escaped the floundering wreck, to be rescued by one of the scum-barges that travels the oceans. Even then, her fate should have been sealed. The lives of those of Furia are usually measured in a few short years, but again Soloria proved destined for something more.
When the daemon-spawn leviathans came to devour her barge, she met them at the prow of her vessel. One's skull she crushed with a gesture. Another, she wracked with terrible lightning, scouring flesh from bones. The third lunged at her, only to stop as she dominated its puny mind. Soloria sent her new pet deep into the depths of the ocean, to lift the wreck of the transport to the surface. Her newfound servants aboard the barge gladly aided her in restoring a measure of its spaceflight capability and, after many years of work, they left Furia, never to return.
Soloria now wanders the Vortex with only one goal in mind -- vengeance on the Imperium that robbed her of her family and her life. She gathers fellow Imperial outcasts to her banner, with a focus on those who also fell prey to the Black Ships. Eventually, she will amass enough power to rip through the Calixis Sector. Her goal: Scintilla, for she wishes to see the Tricorn Palace of the Inquisition burn beneath her maimed gaze.
Screaming Vortex
"Listen! Listen, don’t you hear? They sing to us, such a sad lament..." —Last recorded words of the Navigator Sol Burgundus The Screaming Vortex is a permanent Warp storm and Warp rift that is one of the zones within the region known as the "Great Warp Storms" that separates the Calixis Sector...warhammer40k.fandom.com
Then we can actually recruit someone(s) who is actually willing to leave with us.
If we have control of the surveillance systems, we can watch and build profiles of likely recruits, then talk to the inmates individually without the knowledge of the facility personnel.
Breaking them out is the straightforward bit. Off the top of my head:
- Arranging something that looks like a
demonicwarp entity incursion and leaving mutilated remains cultured from the abductees DNA- After we've subverted the surveillance, infiltrate a stealth unit in and out and just vanishing them out of their cells. Plus or minus leaving vat-grown doppelgangers behind that "died of natural causes".
- Having an epidemic sweep through the facility and make the inmates all seemingly die courtesy of nanotech drugs, then swapping out the comatose inmates for cloned doppelgangers that were never alive but show all the signs of death from infectious disease/poisoned food.
Cost really isn't an object, if psykers are as rare as the numbers suggest.
Much better alternative than trying to sort through the general population for wild psykers or hoping to stumble across them on our own.
-Also, we want to get a look at the containment measures in use for psykers in 40k. In particular their anti-demon wards.
Those in particular are well worth the price of admission, even if we fail to lay our hands on anyone else.
Even if the detention facilities are empty.
In the wild it would be much simpler and easier to vanish them and arrange a cover accident.
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- Location
- United States of America, Michigan
Not really liking the current plan since going max stress when we're trying to do a delicate infiltration sounds like it could back fire and I'm not certain about recruiting people right now before we get an idea IC of what the people are like.
So win win situation as long as we are ready to bug out if things get too interesting.
Well we do have this neat trick that lets us pick up new born Psykers and a 100+ it is not a trifling number when it comes to Psykers. You are right though that we should be cautious (especially when it comes to Inquisitors) but let us not be overcautious. Yes this is 40k but 40k favors those with ability and bold action, we have/are gaining ability we just need to remember to be appropriately bold.
Driven by Apathy
Formerly known as Brain_Caster
If you took up residence on a friendly, densely inhabited, and technologically advanced world, yeah, that would be possible. However, at this point you've outgrown this kind of crutch, as Eris natural range is already sufficient to cover a planet.
As for extending it beyond that, lightspeed lag starts causing problems for Eris at around 150,000 kms of distance, and unfortunately the Gestalt isn't really compatible with any FTL-communication systems known to you.
Something like this might come up once Eris has spend a little time dabbling in espionage.
So what you are saying is that we need to mug the necrons, got it.
- Location
- western US
*item added to internal bucket-list for quest*So what you are saying is that we need to mug the necrons, got it.
More likely the Eldar as they would know warp FTL coms that might be compatible, probably.So what you are saying is that we need to mug the necrons, got it.
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- Location
- western US
we actually stand a decent chance at understanding at least some of Necron tech once we hit T5 proper and since Eris herself is a warp entity, we can probably understand/steal a portion of Eldar tech too.More likely the Eldar as they would know warp FTL coms that might be compatible, probably.
so, you know what....I say the goal for us is to just mug *everyone*. we are going full Trazyn people....
*internal bucket-list for quest modified*
we have sort of mugged MOI by yoinking some of their pop, but we all know that it doesn't really count till we can steal something more important.
1): Necrons
2): Eldar
3): Tau
4): IOM
anyone got any notable bits of tech/stuff we can steal from each?
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- Location
- Europe
4) Really, Really, Really long term, if it is even possible. An Arch Mechanicus.
- Location
- western US
I WAS going to say that we probably won't get a whole lot from that other then a very large hull along with the resources, but the wiki suggests they might have alot of STC's so there is a decent chance we might get a bunch of the tech that was developed since we disappeared and I rather strongly doubt we got *everything* that the DAOT had anyway.
I'm not sure we have teleportarium's, if not we probably want to yoink some of those to make use of. maybe find a way to miniaturize them so that we can make teleporting power suits and make our troops/tanks nigh-impossible to pin down (even the Eldar are mostly restricted to actually MOVING places)
I'm pretty sure we don't because according to the War of the Beast books the IoM stole that from the orks.