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Gate - thus the jsdf fought there discussion, idea, and recs thread

A

Accelerator

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Despite how the... canon is a bit lackluster, I think the idea of having a medieval empire meeting with a modern civilization is quite an intriguing idea. So let's talk about it.
 
One idea that I thought might be a bit less of the usual 'stomp, but with a different flag and accents' might involve them landing in the Kingdom of Britain from Magic 2.0. Or in other words, medieval British Isles with some extras. The wizards are around, of course, and could probably turn the tide... but they would have to ask themselves just how far they're willing to go for the sake of protecting the innocents, and how much power they are willing to give the Brits in exchange for their safety. It is well within their power to import a hundred machine guns plus ammunition, but is doing so a good idea? Is arming a medieval kingdom with modern weaponry justifiable, even when the alternative is slavery?

Such questions are ones that they would have to ask if the scenario came to be. All I'm saying is, it would be something different, and it could be interesting.
 
Well, I got some ideas in which a fantasy verse can somehow take on the jsdf...

Crystals that cast energy shields. Armor that lets their users teleport towards their enemies, or turn immaterial, so that foes are forced into closed quarters combat. magical transhumanism, where your average soldier is perfectly healthy and immune to infection or illness, while your elites are basically space marines. Magic that lets them get much more food, so that their armies are much larger. spells of teleportation, spells of summoning invisible ghosts/ spirits. Wide-scale sleeping spells. invisibility or SEP potions. Specially bred beasts with carapace hard enough to withstand small arms fire, and big enough to serve as a fortress.

RWBY aura. Golems.

Also, something from fate apocrypha.

It would be no exaggeration to call this place a battlefield.

There were homunculi built for combat, swinging gigantic halberds and producing complex thaumaturgical rituals that brought massive destruction to the area around them. Not born naturally, these homunculi possessed corporeal defects which needed to be compensated for, resulting in an extremely short lifespan of two months. But it would make little difference even if it were just two weeks, as their lives were meant to be spent on this war. From the moment they were born, forged by alchemy, the homunculi were well and fully matured. They were man-made organisms, born to fight, born to destroy, and born to die.

At the same time, there were golems constructed by Kabbalistic techniques, [doll servants] which executed the commands of their master. Compared to the homunculi, built to resemble the human form, these golems were inhuman creations of stone and bronze. What they lacked in number, they made up for in sheer recklessness in face of any and all attacks, using their gigantic bodies and stone fists to crush and pulverize the enemy. Any single homunculus or golem here would easily match an average magus in combat. However, both of these forces were being overwhelmed by the opposition in pure quantity. Dragon tooth warriors—these were skeleton troops created using the fangs of dragons. By the power of the dragon race, and bestowed with knowledge from the earth itself, every fang buried into the ground becomes an inexpensive soldier. Although they were nearly powerless against the homunculi and golems that had been built for battle, they were legion.

Created for sport by a Servant of Red faction, these warriors were thrown into the fray in numbers that might well be endless, wave after wave that gushed out from a massive swarm. And they would not stop until they were completely shattered. Wielding swords and axes made of bone which was tougher and sharper than steel, they came in droves, smashing golems and cleaving homunculi apart. It was the very image of brutality. With their simple thought processes and emotions which barely existed, these golems, skeletons and homunculi simply performed the same attacks over and over, never stopping until their deaths, never resting their weapons while their enemies still existed.

Flames raced, and earth became shrapnel. Wounded soldiers immediately healed through recovery thaumaturgy, instantly returning to the field.
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This is what a battle should look like. Those golems? Made of stone. Capable of tanking small arms fire, requiring at least rockets to take down. Those homunculi? walking wmds. Those dragon soldiers? Weak, slow, and easily damaged soldiers, that constantly regenerate and rebuild themselves, over and over again, until the caster runs out of mana, you collapse from exhaustion, or you run out of ammunition.

There are lots and lots of ways a fantasy world can fuck up a real life one. Especially one as weak as japan.

And that's not all. Small-scale teleportation, phasing through walls. Scrying, even low level ones. Being able to quickly move massive amounts of dirt and such around. Shapeshifting. Even magical diseases and plagues.

When it comes to fantasy vs modern earth, you don't charge them head on.

You go sideways. Because seriously, who's gonna build a base, expecting that people can teleport through the shadows to gank the army leader?
 
Grey Rook said:
One idea that I thought might be a bit less of the usual 'stomp, but with a different flag and accents' might involve them landing in the Kingdom of Britain from Magic 2.0. Or in other words, medieval British Isles with some extras. The wizards are around, of course, and could probably turn the tide... but they would have to ask themselves just how far they're willing to go for the sake of protecting the innocents, and how much power they are willing to give the Brits in exchange for their safety. It is well within their power to import a hundred machine guns plus ammunition, but is doing so a good idea? Is arming a medieval kingdom with modern weaponry justifiable, even when the alternative is slavery?

Such questions are ones that they would have to ask if the scenario came to be. All I'm saying is, it would be something different, and it could be interesting.
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Oh yeah, correct me if I"m wrong, but have you been on SB?
 
So, I had a pondering while seeing all this stuff on GATE.

How did the Empire's troops get across the gate to raid the other side so quickly? No, seriously, how? Did the Empire itself open the gate?
 
Accelerator said:
eh, sorry.

Well, if, say, a medieval level civilization with aura on the same level as canon rwby, fights against the jsdf, how would it end up?
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Let's assume that the invading army was the size of a single legion at its maximum size, 5.5k. Add on another legion of auxilaries and slaves you get ~10k. At minimum let's assume that only the upper portions and a few extra have aura so ~20 per usual Cohort for 54 cohorts and ~40 for the five of the first cohort. This gives an estimate of ~220 aura users for a two legion strong force. Of the auxiliaries ... I don't know say 100 at minimum.

Out of 5500? There's not that many to make too much of a difference. I could see them breaking completely out of Ginza due to the sheer what-the-fuck factor of someone able to tank a full clip of an assault-rifle. They could break into the neighboring districts but not the entirety of Tokyo. Let's go by canon (haha) and say only Ginza and the direct surrounding areas were invaded to begin with. Now the surrounding wards see minor incursions before they are forced back. The Chuo and Chiyoda wards are still the only ones to see large portions of the bloodshed. It's not enough to change the end result. The Empire will be dealt with as soon as the JSDF and United States Forces Japan are able to deal with the Falmartese. Aura will definitely be enough to change the tone of the resulting counter-invasion. The Falmartese are a legitimate threat and, assuming basic military competence, will be judged as such. Casualties are a direct possibility now versus the original level where only those going up against monsters or a huge number discrepancy would see such.

At maximum you have a 10k strong force of aura users. They will break out of Ginza. They might even break out of Tokyo itself even but that's unlikely due to the Imperial Army settling down to pillage and rape and burn. If not all of Tokyo itself, the area of a circle contained within the Wards of Minato, Shibuya, Shinjuku, Bunkyo, Taito, Sumida, and Koto are occupied. The police will not be able to handle such a force of apparent super-humans and monsters. All of the JSDF and USFJ mobilize to repel the invaders. This becomes the Tokyo Massacre and not just the Ginza one. The Empire will receive no mercy and an actual war will be seen on Falmart as the JSDF, US armed forces, and any other forces likely pulled in as the result of their embassies being all killed invade. It's still not a huge war though and will likely be the size of the Invasion of Iraq or Afghanistan. Magic will help the Falmartese against the Terrans but in the end I see the Terrans achieving a victory due to sheer manufacturing capabilities. The entirety of Falmartese Imperial society will likely have been destroyed due to the consequences of fighting an Aura powered military. Note when I said Iraq and Afghanistan? If the Terran forces decide to occupy Imperial Falmart then say hello to asymmetrical warfare ...

Overall I see Aura as not a huge advantage that makes Falmart insurmountable but something that definitely makes it more of a hassle. It's the difference between a scraped knee and a gunshot wound to your non-dominant hand. One is painful but is easily dealt with via some alcohol and a bandage with the small possibility of a small infection or rash. The other means actual surgery and the possibility of a deadly infection or lost limb if you're not careful.
 
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Ah....

So anyway, anyone of you read the manga, Nobunaga no chef? Its about a chef from the present being sent to the time of Nobunaga, where he cooks really, really, good food.

Remember how the Prince reacted to the food at the banquet? Anyone have any ideas?
 
Keep the curbstomp (or don't), but make the story focus on administering the new territory. Culture clash, politics, maybe some intrigue to spice things up.
 
I've had an idea in my head for a while to run a cross with Valkyria Chronicles where the original Romans that got stuck over in Falmart are replaced by an offshoot branch of Valkyria. Royals and nobility of the Empire would be made up with as close to pureblooded Valkyria as they could get and there would be several non-human races running around with similar traits.

As for where and when the present day gate appears, I'm at a conundrum of whether it should be sometime within the VC games, the future, or another setting entirely :S
 
Gate Fanfic Concept:

1. Portal appears, Japan sends in expeditionary force with tanks, APCs and infantry.
2. They are able to intimidate locals, forcing local kingdoms to cooperate.
3. The portal closes, contact between Japan and Fantasia is lost.
4. Another one opens, 500 miles in the "Forbidden Lands".
5. Hostilities resume, guerilla warfare between Expedition Force and local realms. Massive armies tailing them, oil and ammo running out. Lasts three years and makes up the bulk of the story.
6. Re-enact the story of the Ten Thousand but with magic and tanks. Add in some Black Company for good measure.
 
Idea from misreading the title..

Gate thus the Jedi fought there.


Gate open to the middle of the Jedi temple on coruscant during the Kotor era, instead of Japan.
 
Accelerator said:
Ah....

So anyway, anyone of you read the manga, Nobunaga no chef? Its about a chef from the present being sent to the time of Nobunaga, where he cooks really, really, good food.

Remember how the Prince reacted to the food at the banquet? Anyone have any ideas?
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I read the manga last night and I actually liked it quite a bit! Thanks for bringing it to my attention!

Anyway, I would be interested in seeing Gate maybe happen during WWI in Europe? We had less technology but ramped up arms with equally as imperialistic nations at the time, however all are already too committed with the Great War to take advantage and actually curb stomp the Empire, and the empire ironically actually becomes a neutral party trying to broker a detente of the area around the Gate?
 
Erm, not to sound dumb here, but isn't the JSDF a purely defensive force? If so, why are they being used to invade other territories? Why are the JSDF depicted as able to take down several overseas special forces (when they shouldn't be able to)?

If this has anything to do with the blatant Japanese nationalism that's a common criticism of GATE, then ignore this question.
 
Potato said:
Erm, not to sound dumb here, but isn't the JSDF a purely defensive force? If so, why are they being used to invade other territories? Why are the JSDF depicted as able to take down several overseas special forces (when they shouldn't be able to)?
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Thats part of why gate is kinda dumb.
 
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I had an idea for sci-fi AU, focusing on the culture clash between Falmart and a space faring empire known as the Terran Imperium.
 
Someone on SB once had an idea that Falmart was actually a space marine recruiting world. Explains the beastmen..
 
Potato said:
Erm, not to sound dumb here, but isn't the JSDF a purely defensive force? If so, why are they being used to invade other territories?
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Politicking. The Special Region is declared to be a part of Japan by the Prime Minister, so thusly, the JSDF can go there.

It seems pretty flimsy but other than China complaining it should've been a UN mission (presumably so they can get a slice of the pie) nothing comes of it to my knowledge.
 
dryskim said:
Politicking. The Special Region is declared to be a part of Japan by the Prime Minister, so thusly, the JSDF can go there.

It seems pretty flimsy but other than China complaining it should've been a UN mission (presumably so they can get a slice of the pie) nothing comes of it to my knowledge.
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It makes tissue paper look like tank armor. Calling it flimsy isn't going far enough.

It also means that all the governments are considered illegitimate.

It also means that all the inhabitants, including those the JSDF kill in job lots, are Japanese citizens.
 
Jinx999 said:
It also means that all the inhabitants, including those the JSDF kill in job lots, are Japanese citizens.
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Part of the problem with GATE. I liked the concept, but for the most part it's nationalistic wank. There's no way those JSDF soldiers could have handled multiple special operation forces, both US and Russian.

One of its key criticisms is that instead of developing a story about technological uplift and political intrigue, as well as the implications of claiming the Special Region as Japanese territory, it goes into a power fantasy that includes a loli for good measure.

Another problem is that writing GATE stories means that Empire forces are always curbstomped. I've toyed with the idea of having GATE cross with ASoIaF, but dear lord is political intrigue a pain to write. Also I can't write a Tywin Lannister that isn't a flanderized clown.
 
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