...Fucking Tinkers (Worm/SAO)

[Katreus]

You know what really pisses me off about crossovers like these? Human innovation cheated by magic or super power. I mean, the guy who created SOA online was a fucking genius. So why does stories like these involve the guy somehow being a mage (SOA/Nsu) or with a super power like this here? It aggrivates the hell out of me when people make him out to have some sort of special ability rather than just pure, simple, human innovation. What's next? Tony Stark is a tinker?

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... What are you talking about? He's labeled a Tinker in Taylor's mind because in her world, the people who can do something like a VRMMO would be a parahuman Tinker. The tech. they were working on in Earth Bet is regular computers. If you were Dragon, the premier Tinker, you may have supercomputers but people don't actually have that in normal life on Earth Bet. VR as it is in SAO is pretty much unknown in Earth Bet. Kayaba himself is not a Tinker, but Taylor's upbringing would lead her to classify him as one because she has no other frame of reference just as she reclassifies Strength as Brute and Dexterity as Mover powers.

Tony Stark would be classified as a Tinker, yes, even if he isn't really one by definition (as he's not a parahuman). But Tinker or any type of classification is more just a shorthand designation for the PRT and Protectorate to understand what someone can bring to a fight and the level of threat in that area.

 

[Sir Bill]

I'm enjoying the story so far; I should note, though, that I'm approaching this from the Worm side, so I did have a couple questions, and I'll try to point out anything that isn't obvious to me just from reading the story.

Can someone clarify just what the orange cursor means? I got from the text that it apparently signifies that she has engaged in PvP, and from the conversations that I'm reading that is different from a red cursor that's gotten from killing someone, but only if there was no mutually agreed upon duel (but apparently that can be gamed). Is the orange cursor permanent?

(Prompted by a response rather than the story) Are titles a thing supported in the gameplay of Sword Art Online (like in World of Warcraft where they pop up next to your head), or are titles just given by players?

I still don't know what's up with Heathcliff or that guy she talked to at the bar, as apparently they're more than they seem going by some of the conversation going on, but I'm assuming that's a plot twist in canon Sword Art Online, so not knowing about that is perfectly acceptable at this point.

Yeah, other than that stuff, keep up the good work.

(Bah, maybe I should switch avatars, most of my text sounds vaguely sarcastic even to me even when I do mean it in perfect sincerity.)

 

[Zefferen]

Kayaba probably isn't a tinker. He doesn't really match the idea in canon. He makes his stuff, dies, and then they make new models in a reasonable timeframe. Unless you have dragon helping you that isn't going to happen with tinker tech.

 

[Katreus]

Can someone clarify just what the orange cursor means? I got from the text that it apparently signifies that she has engaged in PvP, and from the conversations that I'm reading that is different from a red cursor that's gotten from killing someone, but only if there was no mutually agreed upon duel (but apparently that can be gamed). Is the orange cursor permanent?

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Performing a crime (stealing, hurting, or killing green cursor players) temporarily turns the criminal's cursor orange. In chapter 1, she carries someone out of the way of the field boss. Unfortunately, she does this a bit hard / fast so it's labeled as an aggressive action against another player and turns her cursor orange. Cursor color automatically restores over time for the first 3 crimes committed. 4th time requires that the player complete a quest. 5th time and it permanently turns the player's cursor orange. People who kill other players (Player Killers) are also granted permanent orange cursors.

There are two exceptions:
1. Attacking someone who already has an orange cursor won't change your own cursor color since the game interprets this as defending someone or protecting themselves.
2. Duels are sanctioned PVP events and will not change a player's cursor even if the player ends up killing the other person in the duel.

(Prompted by a response rather than the story) Are titles a thing supported in the gameplay of Sword Art Online (like in World of Warcraft where they pop up next to your head), or are titles just given by players?

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Just given by players from my understanding.

I still don't know what's up with Heathcliff or that guy she talked to at the bar, as apparently they're more than they seem going by some of the conversation going on, but I'm assuming that's a plot twist in canon Sword Art Online, so not knowing about that is perfectly acceptable at this point.

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If you want to know re: Heathcliff, highlight after this: Heathcliff is Kayaba, i.e. the GM's proxy character. I'm not really sure who the bar dude is.

 

[pheonix89]

You know what really pisses me off about crossovers like these? Human innovation cheated by magic or super power. I mean, the guy who created SOA online was a fucking genius. So why does stories like these involve the guy somehow being a mage (SOA/Nsu) or with a super power like this here? It aggrivates the hell out of me when people make him out to have some sort of special ability rather than just pure, simple, human innovation. What's next? Tony Stark is a tinker?

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Um, she assumes its a tinker because the only beings who aren't tinkers in her experience who could do this are Dragon pre-triggered (Seed AI), Simurgh (Ultimate thinker, has bullshit precog and analysis), and Contessa if she Path to Victory'd it. The idea that someone without powers could pull it off is insane from her perspective.

 

[Sir Bill]

Performing a crime (stealing, hurting, or killing green cursor players) temporarily turns the criminal's cursor orange. In chapter 1, she carries someone out of the way of the field boss. Unfortunately, she does this a bit hard / fast so it's labeled as an aggressive action against another player and turns her cursor orange. Cursor color automatically restores over time for the first 3 crimes committed. 4th time requires that the player complete a quest. 5th time and it permanently turns the player's cursor orange. People who kill other players (Player Killers) are also granted permanent orange cursors.

There are two exceptions:
1. Attacking someone who already has an orange cursor won't change your own cursor color since the game interprets this as defending someone or protecting themselves.
2. Duels are sanctioned PVP events and will not change a player's cursor even if the player ends up killing the other person in the duel.



Just given by players from my understanding.



If you want to know re: Heathcliff, highlight after this: Heathcliff is Kayaba, i.e. the GM's proxy character. I'm not really sure who the bar dude is.

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Ah, thanks.

I wonder how quickly Taylor will end getting permanent orange? Since, well, I kind of doubt that she'll fail to rack up at least a few crimes (it's Taylor. Even if she decides that the ends don't justify the means, well, she'll end up getting terribly unlucky. To me, the only question is either what crimes those are and how long it takes).

Of course, she could find a way to game the system instead, which would also be in line with Taylor's character.

As to the last part, the in thread conversation had revealed that Kayaba had spoken to Taylor, but I couldn't quite piece together whether Kayaba was bar dude or Heathcliff from the way that the conversation was going.

 

[Larekko12]

Hm, Taylor is exactly what Kabaya tried to achieve, the end product of a death world with monsters beyond your comprehension trying to kill you.

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I don't think she is. I think he was trying to get something not that terribly maladjusted and stunted. I think he wanted world where they banded together and the best was dragged out of them in a real world fantasy heroes.

 

[Khaos]

I don't think she is. I think he was trying to get something not that terribly maladjusted and stunted. I think he wanted world where they banded together and the best was dragged out of them in a real world fantasy heroes.

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The dark version of what he expected then.

 

[vel10]

Unless she finds someone like Rosalia who was a spotter/bait for an Orange Guild and decides to execute said murderer instead of sending her to a toy jail run by a PRT sized guild of dubious motivation.

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Eh, there's a way to game that. She just has to manhandle Rosalia through physical force into accepting a duel - if you can do it when they're asleep, you can manhandle them into doing it when they're awake. Sure, it'll get you a temporary orange most likely, but it'll let you avoid the permanent orange of a murderer.

Or just sit around and wait for hours until they fall asleep from mental exhaustion and then use the duel-assassination trick that way, neatly avoiding manhandling. If you're patient.

 

[The Sandman]

Taylor would probably take a break from grinding to "take care" of that Laughing Coffin problem.

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Assuming she doesn't do so the instant PoH (or one of his lackeys, I guess) makes a recruitment attempt.

Because I can guarantee he's going to get the wrong impression from how she had no trouble killing Kibaou.

 

[vel10]

So what exactly is up with the sword skills? I'm not familiar with SAO, and they aren't really explained in fic. Is it basically a special move you can execute with the sword through the UI somehow?

And Taylor doesn't use it, allowing her more precise timing, which she uses as a pseudo-exploit when fighting people and Floor Bosses? I feel like whatever is allowing her to solo a dude who usually takes 50 people to bring down deserves a relatively thorough explanation.

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They're preprogrammed special moves - like combos or special slashes. Basically, the system takes control of your movements and performs a pre-programmed attack set which deals extra damage. At the end, there's an enforced lag time of a few seconds before you can do anything again.

The more powerful the skill, the longer the lag time. They also have cooldown periods inbetween uses.

 

[Legend of Ruina]

They're preprogrammed special moves - like combos or special slashes. Basically, the system takes control of your movements and performs a pre-programmed attack set which deals extra damage. At the end, there's an enforced lag time of a few seconds before you can do anything again.

The more powerful the skill, the longer the lag time.

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And since they're preprogrammed there's no adjusting them or canceling mid attack from what I understand.

 

[inverted_helix]

So what exactly is up with the sword skills? I'm not familiar with SAO, and they aren't really explained in fic. Is it basically a special move you can execute with the sword through the UI somehow?

And Taylor doesn't use it, allowing her more precise timing, which she uses as a pseudo-exploit when fighting people and Floor Bosses? I feel like whatever is allowing her to solo a dude who usually takes 50 people to bring down deserves a relatively thorough explanation.

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Sword skills are basically combo moves imbedded in the game that the player triggers through specific movements the game recognizes. Once triggered the game moves your body through the motions on its own with no control from you, but faster than you could otherwise move. Players rely on them because they tend not to have much in the way of swordfighting skills of their own and they do more damage than the motion normally would anyways. However the drawback is that after the move completes you have a short immobility time in which you're effectively stunned, further during the move you are completely unable to control your body, preventing you dodging.

Since Taylor knows how to fight without the system assist she doesn't need to use sword skills. Her attacks will individually deal less damage, but she is capable of dodging at any time whereas normally a person would be incapable of dodging mid-attack.

It's not so much the exploit of not using sword skills per say as that SAO allows you to apply what you know from life due to the way it's built, but doesn't assume you actually have combat skills. Taylor's extreme experience is what is breaking here really. Further she fights for 2 hours, while normally a raid would be expected to kill a boss in minutes. Her ability to maintain combat focus for 2 hours at a stretch is also pretty much inhuman. In my raiding experience 15 minute fights are excruciating because of the detrimental effects of trying to maintain split second focus for that long.

 

[vel10]

It's not so much the exploit of not using sword skills per say as that SAO allows you to apply what you know from life due to the way it's built, but doesn't assume you actually have combat skills. Taylor's extreme experience is what is breaking here really. Further she fights for 2 hours, while normally a raid would be expected to kill a boss in minutes.

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The most experience anyone else is likely to have in combat is kendo or other such martial arts - and even that is probably fairly sparse, given that a lot of the clearers are hardcore MMO players...not exactly the type of people to practice martial arts.

I'm sure Kayaba is wondering how he ended up getting the equivalent of a hardened soldier in his game...

I'd think scars carry over, though none of them are immediately visible.

 

[The Sandman]

The other disadvantage of Sword Skills is that if you use them in PvP against somebody who can recognize which one you're using, they know exactly how to either counter or evade it.

 

[pheonix89]

Sword skills are basically combo moves imbedded in the game that the player triggers through specific movements the game recognizes. Once triggered the game moves your body through the motions on its own with no control from you, but faster than you could otherwise move. Players rely on them because they tend not to have much in the way of swordfighting skills of their own and they do more damage than the motion normally would anyways. However the drawback is that after the move completes you have a short immobility time in which you're effectively stunned, further during the move you are completely unable to control your body, preventing you dodging.

Since Taylor knows how to fight without the system assist she doesn't need to use sword skills. Her attacks will individually deal less damage, but she is capable of dodging at any time whereas normally a person would be incapable of dodging mid-attack.

It's not so much the exploit of not using sword skills per say as that SAO allows you to apply what you know from life due to the way it's built, but doesn't assume you actually have combat skills. Taylor's extreme experience is what is breaking here really. Further she fights for 2 hours, while normally a raid would be expected to kill a boss in minutes. Her ability to maintain combat focus for 2 hours at a stretch is also pretty much inhuman. In my raiding experience 15 minute fights are excruciating because of the detrimental effects of trying to maintain split second focus for that long.

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So its great for a random civvie, but for a hardened warrior like Taylor its meh at best and using one vs her is basically going "Hey, free opening"?

 

[vel10]

I didn't get that. Not at all. The cliff in front of me? Indistinguishable from one I might have found around the portal in Earth Gimel. The rough feeling of the stones in the wall, the shadows it cast in the fading light of the day - even the specific way the wind blew through the cleft we were in: all of it was exactly as I would have expected it to be, were we not in this prison.

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Oh yeah, I noticed this earlier, but didn't bring it up...but now that we're talking about language, I feel it warrants attention.

This, combined with Taylor's earlier comments on the water being clear, demonstrates that she has different perceptions from everyone else. The simulation isn't -quite- perfect, particularly in the water. The water is a bit polygonal, and there are some other problems in it. It's close, but not quite. And you can notice the fact that people are computer models if you look closely enough.

 

[Chloe Sullivan]

... I'm guessing that someone or something is doing some mental translation magic here. The only reason I can imagine he'd ask if she knows the term, "shut in," is that he's probably asking in Japanese and shut-in is probably not something that comes up in normal Japanese conversation so even if an American's learned Japanese, she might not know that particular term. But for Taylor, it seems that everyone's speaking in English, I guess.

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The word you are looking for is Hikikomori.

There really isn't an english equivalent, though Shut-in is probably the best translation.

...and a crazy thought I just had. Kayaba put a block on Yui that prevented her from actually contacting any players in order to carry out her function as the local Mental Health Counseling Program. Does that include Taylor, though, seeing as how Cardinal is having trouble recognizing that she exists?

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Meeting Yui would be good for Khepri. She might actually cooperate with psychological counseling for once, if it;s done subtly by a cute kids.

It would not, however, be good for Yui.

 

[vel10]

The Army won't exist either, given that it was a merger between Kibabou's guild and Thinker's group.

He was also widely considered the leader of the clearers until the 25th floor, when a debacle caused by bad info allowed the KoB to take the lead.

 

[Alathon]

Soloing a boss ought to be a giant friggin' level up, right?

It'll be interesting to see how Taylor handles the loot split. If I understand it, she's got a whole raid's worth of loot she could hand out to those she deems needful (or perhaps, worthy). Loot she might have to defend, though simply equipping the better bits ought to be decisive if raid loot is anything like I'd expect.

 

[pressea]

Someone better call her on doing crazy acrobatics all night. That stuff is creepier than the constantly glowing eyes.

Aside from her current set, what other skills is she likely to get? I can't really see her getting Battle Healing for a while as she seems to try to not get hurt, and most of the weapon skills just don't fit for her play style. I can see Night Vision, Listening and Detection. If she learns about Beast Tamers, the Familiar Communication/Recovery skills seem likely. Any other skills?

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The SAO wiki says there's an X-Ray Vision skill. Sounds like her.

What makes daggers and knives worthwhile, in-game? Everyone seems to favor other weapon types.

 

[Flere821]

Pretty sure there's also shops and a crafting system. I kinda doubt he wore the same mantle from Floor 1 to Floor 60+ so he probably got new ones along the way, though obviously in the same colouring/style.

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Kirito canonically have gone through 4 sets of black coats as better materials was made available as the game progressed. Floor 1 he had his 'Coat of Midnight', and by Floor 74 he had his 'Black Wyrm Coat' made by the top tailor of SAO (named Ashley) from black dragonhide. (ref 'Sound of Water, Sound of Hammer' Side Story)

 

[pressea]

I think that daggers can be used to poison the enemies, other than that I cannot see any other benefit in the game for either of them.

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Poison is defnitely right up her alley. And the same skill that crafts poisons also makes potions. If she picks that up, the chances of her going the entire game without buying a single pot skyrocket.

On the other hand Skitter/Weaver is familiar with the use of both a knife and a baton (club???), and she was able to at least lift a halbert when necessary, so those will probably be her weapons of choice. Her main weapon however is going to be flexibility. Unlike most players she can in any given moment drop her weapon and use any other, something that other players aren't prone to do due to their hard won levels in different [<Sword Skills]>.

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I don't see this. Taylor's main advantage isn't versatility: it's that she's actually trained in using her weapons. And passenger-hax.

 

[pressea]

I though SAO only had "Healing Crystals"?

And I know that any such items take a relatively long time to use.

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Potions are heal over time. The crystals are instant full heals iirc, that's why they're important.

 

[Flere821]

From the wiki at this point in the game the idea of player killing hasn't even been raised, and she just effectively gutted a man in 00:02 seconds in front of a crowd. And her response to this was "okay that's taken care of; let's get back to the meeting." To Taylor this was a perfectly reasonable action, he was breaking the unwritten rules for his own betterment, and he chose to fight her despite not having to. So she killed him for being an idiot. To everyone else she just nonchalantly executed the man in front of them, even though the duel was accepted by (insert name) and he intended to kill her as well that fact will probably be lost in the public mind.

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On that note, I just remembered PoH at the start of SAO game trying to make PKing seem acceptable to the players (ref WEB Alicization, Rondo of the Transient Sword, and Monochrome Concerto). Kephri's action there would have been a double-edged sword for his plans, as it would have both reinforced the horrifying emotions of a player death, or only encouraged those nutcases that joined Laughing Coffin in canon to embrace PoH's views even faster here. I'm looking forward to seeing how this will play out in this fanfic