Furthermore, our liege isn't likely to be in residence at his capital.

He is far more likely to be at the king's court making more allies like he almost was when we went there to find a bride.

This means that unless Lichtra is ridiculously lucky, ie perfect weather, no Grimm, no bandits, and duke in residence, it would take several months for the duke to respond to our war.
 
[X] Seize the Castle: Lichtra may be gone, but valuable hostages might still be found within his castle. No great a prize as Lichtra himself, sure, yet you still could have much to gain by turning around now and halting a tiring pursuit. Once there, you can decide to either wait for Marble to arrive or slip back up the river. Sable believes that this is the wisest option.
 
Sable's armor is much simpler. She's dressed in a navy-blue sweatshirt and denim jeans with a tactical vest thrown over the top.
You know, it is easy to forget that this an After the End -quest were the society was pretty equal to our modern one, and not something were everyone dresses as if they were from Medieval-times.

[X] Seize the Castle: Lichtra may be gone, but valuable hostages might still be found within his castle. No great a prize as Lichtra himself, sure, yet you still could have much to gain by turning around now and halting a tiring pursuit. Once there, you can decide to either wait for Marble to arrive or slip back up the river. Sable believes that this is the wisest option.
 
Hah... He probably is running to daddy, but there's also a chance he's going to other allies. It's been a year since his daughter was brought up as a marriage prospect, and I doubt a girl with Attractive will last long before someone asks for her hand. Actually... Jollarkalt is inland, across several estates' distance, and going out to sea can only be seen as a means to reach him if you squint and tilt your head. I suspect Brynus is running to his new son-in-law for help, which means bigger distances, which means more time, even if just a bit.

[X] Seize the Castle: Lichtra may be gone, but valuable hostages might still be found within his castle. No great a prize as Lichtra himself, sure, yet you still could have much to gain by turning around now and halting a tiring pursuit. Once there, you can decide to either wait for Marble to arrive or slip back up the river. Sable believes that this is the wisest option.
 
Hah... He probably is running to daddy, but there's also a chance he's going to other allies. It's been a year since his daughter was brought up as a marriage prospect, and I doubt a girl with Attractive will last long before someone asks for her hand. Actually... Jollarkalt is inland, across several estates' distance, and going out to sea can only be seen as a means to reach him if you squint and tilt your head. I suspect Brynus is running to his new son-in-law for help, which means bigger distances, which means more time, even if just a bit.

[X] Seize the Castle: Lichtra may be gone, but valuable hostages might still be found within his castle. No great a prize as Lichtra himself, sure, yet you still could have much to gain by turning around now and halting a tiring pursuit. Once there, you can decide to either wait for Marble to arrive or slip back up the river. Sable believes that this is the wisest option.

Either way, it's still reliant on his territory holding until he comes back with reinforcements, and we're on a clock.

We might even find out where he's going if we take his capital holding.
 
Hah... He probably is running to daddy, but there's also a chance he's going to other allies. It's been a year since his daughter was brought up as a marriage prospect, and I doubt a girl with Attractive will last long before someone asks for her hand. Actually... Jollarkalt is inland, across several estates' distance, and going out to sea can only be seen as a means to reach him if you squint and tilt your head. I suspect Brynus is running to his new son-in-law for help, which means bigger distances, which means more time, even if just a bit.
You assume they'll go to war, given how fast he capitulated.

There's a difference between "I fought them, got beat in the field, fled to my allies", and "I fled to my allies before my troops even knew there was an war on."
 
Yeah, that's why we want to resolve this quickly no matter where he's actually going.

Because it's the difference between "Cut it out or we hit you with superior forces" and "Welp, sucks to be you, I guess out of filial loyalty, I'll let you crash in my house?"

The annoying thing is that he'll still have his Claim, but he won't necessarily have the wealth or prestige to press it again considering that was his only territory, and we're not in a game that randomly gives courtiers with claims 500 gold and an upkeep free army with 120% the strength of the target province.
 
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[X] Seize the Castle: Lichtra may be gone, but valuable hostages might still be found within his castle. No great a prize as Lichtra himself, sure, yet you still could have much to gain by turning around now and halting a tiring pursuit. Once there, you can decide to either wait for Marble to arrive or slip back up the river. Sable believes that this is the wisest option.

There is no likely outcome leading to both Lichtra running away in fear and his castle being well protected. Well, the only two situations I can imagine are being usurped by your own children and being coerced by an eldritch abomination hiding in the castle, which might not even be possible in this setting.

In brief, Lichtra tried to save his ass, we may instead take his legs. With his main holding seized, Lichtra would be crippled.
 
Wow, these anachronisms are hilarious! Plate armor, riot vests, and digital camo riding on oar-powered boats while wielding rifles!

[X] Seize the Castle: Lichtra may be gone, but valuable hostages might still be found within his castle. No great a prize as Lichtra himself, sure, yet you still could have much to gain by turning around now and halting a tiring pursuit. Once there, you can decide to either wait for Marble to arrive or slip back up the river. Sable believes that this is the wisest option.

Best option, too bad about the pursuit though.

@RedrumSprinkles Your threadmark says "War for Logrhorn Pt. 4", while in the update it's Part III.
 
The annoying thing is that he'll still have his Claim, but he won't necessarily have the wealth or prestige to press it again considering that was his only territory, and we're not in a game that randomly gives courtiers with claims 500 gold and an upkeep free army with 120% the strength of the target province.

OTOH, that 500 gold is pretty nice once they're defeated.
 
Being painfully, brutally honest, I still wanna go for him. I just realize that nobody else wants to go for him.
 
How are we going to catch him though? We don't have any quick movers do we? Snip his helmsman or something?
It would likely be a matter of checking speeds, which theirs would have a bonus on, so we'd have to significantly outroll them. If it were boiled down to a single die, I'd guess we'd have a 25% chance or less of catching him, skewed a bit to the generous side.
 
I would love to force him to kneel before us, and would settle for killing him.

But, he has escaped our grasp, and while it would be perfect to capture him, I would settle for enforcing our demands by defeating all his levies, and taking his demense.
 
[X] Seize the Castle: Lichtra may be gone, but valuable hostages might still be found within his castle. No great a prize as Lichtra himself, sure, yet you still could have much to gain by turning around now and halting a tiring pursuit. Once there, you can decide to either wait for Marble to arrive or slip back up the river. Sable believes that this is the wisest option.
 
Yeah, no matter what happens here, he's fucked. He ran away at literally the first sign of trouble without even trying to bring us to battle when we're basically a peer power--that's pure cowardice in a feudal society.

Even if our Liege manages to force a White Peace anyway and destroy our claims, he's basically been destroyed as a ruler because he's a laughingstock now. Nobody is impressed by a dude who runs away to their liege and makes him do the work for them against a One Province Minor.

Thing is? This was actually a good move from his perspective. He sends his levies to join battle against ours to reduce our numbers, and orders his capital holding to bunker down and draw out a siege--which is easier because of the battle we have to fight to get there first. He loses some prestige, but he gets it back from the fines we'd be assessed, and he doesn't actually suffer any significant risk of losing this way either. He doesn't know that we can just walk right in thanks to Sable pulling shadowruns on him.

And the Capital Holding of a County is always the toughest nut to crack, cities in comparison are a joke.
Actually with this could we flip his vassal holdings?
 
I do have a question that might be important. Since Lichtras has fled from his holdings, he is obviously no longer in charge. This could be a matter where we could take the castle and force whoever is in charge to surrender in Lichtras' stead. So, the biggest question I have is: "Does this count as him going into hiding (i.e. is this technically a case of regency being declared in his lands)?"
 
I do have a question that might be important. Since Lichtras has fled from his holdings, he is obviously no longer in charge. This could be a matter where we could take the castle and force whoever is in charge to surrender in Lichtras' stead. So, the biggest question I have is: "Does this count as him going into hiding (i.e. is this technically a case of regency being declared in his lands)?"
During war, those rules don't apply. In most cases it is perfectly normal for the lord of an estate to leave, be gone for a few weeks, and return without appointing someone to rule in their stead.
 
Yeah, basically, the issue is cranking our Warscore to 100% before he can bring someone else into the War.

The quickest way to do this is by seizing every holding he has--except he's a OPM, and the biggest timesink should be a quick rundown unless we got really unlucky.

Since even if he brings someone else in--we have a Claim and we actually hold every province. For all intents and purposes, at that point, it's ours by right of conquest.
 
I don't know CK2 rules, but taking his capital should give us a significant advantage even if it doesn't instantly win us the war. He also has to have some kind of commander around there. And if there isn't, could Sable fake his handwriting and send a letter to his army telling them to surrender?

[X] Seize the Castle: Lichtra may be gone, but valuable hostages might still be found within his castle. No great a prize as Lichtra himself, sure, yet you still could have much to gain by turning around now and halting a tiring pursuit. Once there, you can decide to either wait for Marble to arrive or slip back up the river. Sable believes that this is the wisest option.
 
So I have a write-in plan. Well, not a plan, more of an adjustment to the current "seize the castle" plan. Keep in mind that this is coming from a guy who's most pressing CK2 questions right now are things like "What the fuck is a demesne" and "Why do I keep losing that naval invasion in the tutorial" so take this with a grain of salt. Or an entire shaker full.

I say we take the opportunity to sink the rest of Lichtra's fleet along the way. I'm not saying we spend six hours exhaustively combing every inlet, but maybe spare a few minutes to destroy some of the Snekkja and cutters currently holed up in Illilundr. Think about it:

At this point, we are a small band of fighters who have taken the enemy by surprise. Their levies are still struggling to shake a leg and get ready to fight. But that won't last forever. However, one way to further sow havoc and chaos without burning the whole fucking town down to the foundations would be destroying the ships in the harbor. It was mentioned in passing earlier that the roads of Thromrhold are shit, and when I look at Lichtra I do not see the face of a steward, but rather the weasel-esque face of a lackwit, arrogant, cowardly goatfucker who couldn't take the mental strain of having more than one province to look after even on the insane off-chance that he wins. So it's a good bet that Logrhorn Estate probably isn't much better in terms of highways and byways.

So at this point it stands to reason that destroying the fleet would provide three major advantages:

1. Preventing the rapid movement of Logrhorn's levies in an attempt to counter-strike us now that all the eggs are squarely in one basket. This way, his offensive capabilities (although I loathe to describe Lichtra with any word that even partially refers to him as 'capable') would be significantly reduced. Even if we lose here and the absolute worst happens, Marble will likely be able to withdraw intact and Edelweiss won't have to worry about any lightning-speed reprisal attacks.

2. It prevents his men from forming up properly. The river, and Illilundr in particular, is a logical place for levies to assemble. But removing their ability to swiftly transport themselves, along with Lichtra's flight and their current unfortunate vacancy for a Marshal, mean units will struggle to link up efficiently on the disgraceful road network. If we're lucky, assault's on Marble's column will be piecemeal and lacking in coordination, leading to traffic jams as hasty blobs of confused peasants attempt to counter Marble's better trained and better led force. If we give Marble a bunch of little skirmishes to deal with, it will make his job much easier. And he needs the help with the forces he's packing.

3. It gives us almost complete control of the river for next to no penalty. Even if we fuck up disastrously, we still have longships while Logrhorn will be trying to scrape together some semblance of a fleet. It gives us the opportunity for extraction anywhere along the river bank, and we can insert raiding parties and even decent-sized forces without the risk of interception unless Lichtra returns with a whole fleet of sellsails.

The best part is, it won't even make the locals hate us that much. Sure, Thormund Scowlybeard will be pissed off initially. But Illilundr has a shipwright's guild, and if we win and have to rebuild the fleet they might even thank us for the work. Times are hard, after all. And let's see Scowlybeard and his mates stay pissed off when their leaky old cogs get replaced with shiny new, partially-subsidized galleys. Plus, worse comes to worse, it's a doomsday scenario for trade through Logrhorn if we decide to go full scorched-earth.

What do you guys think? I call it the Cthulu Alteration.

And by the way, what the fuck even is a demesne?
 
A demesne is a noble's personal titles, the ones he rules himself. Thus, if I had two counties (ruled from the capital) and built an extra castle in one of them, ruling it personally, I would be using 3 demesne slots.

Technically, your alteration amounts to pillaging the city, because they're not just going to lounge around watching us burn their ships, even if it is at night. Alarms will sound, we'll get attacked, and it'll turn into a whole big mess.
 
A demesne is a noble's personal titles, the ones he rules himself. Thus, if I had two counties (ruled from the capital) and built an extra castle in one of them, ruling it personally, I would be using 3 demesne slots.

Technically, your alteration amounts to pillaging the city, because they're not just going to lounge around watching us burn their ships, even if it is at night. Alarms will sound, we'll get attacked, and it'll turn into a whole big mess.

Thank you for the clarification. That game makes my head spin sometimes. Well, all the time. I'm sure I'll get over it eventually.

I'm not saying we go on a huge hunt or even land raiders. But if we encounter a couple of ships in passing, I say it's worth the ordinance and minor time costs to take the time to hunt them out. I mean, we're packing an LMG team on one of the ships, a variety of Hunter-caliber special units, and a quiver of explosive fire-dust arrows. Destroying the ships at anchor from the river would do a lot more good than harm in my opinion.

Mind you, I am inexperienced, so I will bow to the veterans if pressed. It was just an idea.
 
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