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Fate/Dark Reflection

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[X][Book] Studying Techniques for Dummies
[X] [Commute] Agree

Cool to see how Shirou's Velvet Room looks like, I figured it would look like UBW but since this is fate Shirou it instead became Artoria's castle, Avalon might be affecting things too.
 
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Hmmm. A bit disappointed that Angra Mainyu isn't like, locked in a dungeon somewhere, but on the other hand, this Igor is a lying POS that's stacking the deck against us, and is presumably stacking it even more in his favor since he isn't choosing someone naturally rebellious like Joker as the advocate for Chaos/Human Freedom in the "game". Angra would be obviously be opposed to his grand plan just for the simple fact that he'd be playing second fiddle to another deity, so he might be intentionally excluded from the Velvet Room.

Still championing the potential theory that Angra will take the position of Shirou's shadow, or at the very least, could potentially be integrated into Shirou as his shadow if we play our cards/Social Links right.

AbyssalDivine said:
"Really? Nothing?" How could someone just not have a hobby?
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Pot, meet Kettle. It's hilarious Shirou seeing his workaholic tendencies from the outside. Very interested in seeing how her Social Link will go.

AbyssalDivine said:
'The state of your own heart'. As he says that, you start to intrinsically understand that feeling of 'wrongness' from earlier. He's not meant to be there. He isn't meant to be in a seat at all. Inversely, the twins are meant to be seated, but only in one chair, somehow? You can't quite extrapolate the reasoning behind your gut feeling, but…
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It's a bit odd seeing Shirou be so clueless about the obvious connections to Saber this whole place has. Especially when he should know what the Round Table and such are from Saber's dreams. You'd think it would be his first point of comparison. But then again, he has been dealing with a lot over these past few days.

Anyway, the Ruined Kingdom, with it's dilapidated yet peaceful atmosphere is pretty in-line with how I summed up Fate Shirou's development by the end of his route. The remains of the attempt to pursue the Everdistant Utopia are crumbling, yet quietly dignified in their failure.

One thing I did note is that although Joker's Velvet Room was always a Prison, him appearing in a prisoner's outfit and being shackled as well as imprisoned within a cell are specifically things done to him by Yaldabaoth to assert his control over the Velvet Room and to prevent Joker from exploring it/discovering he isn't the real Igor. So I am surprised that Shirou is seemingly just sitting at the stone table, and not shackled down to a chair or something to reflect that. Maybe this means that Yaldabaoth feels more secure in allowing Shirou more freedom to explore the Velvet Room? Or maybe the "shackles" are something that will only become apparent once Shirou attempts to leave the table or something.

AbyssalDivine said:
"Hey, Makoto." You catch her attention as the two of you clear the dishes, while barely being able to keep yourself from stuttering over the name. "Could I help out with dinner from now on? I used to cook for myself daily, and it'd hopefully lighten your load a little."
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Am curious that Makoto hasn't really inquired into our situation all that much. Maybe that would have happened if we had chosen to progress her S. Link instead of Sae's.

IronHydra said:
Edit: This is what we're about here-
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Joker approves XD.

It's kinda funny to think that after Elizabeth went rogue, the Velvet Attendants for every subsequent game seem to be "designed" to be the opposite of the protagonist's "type." Since the P4s protagonist has the largest amount of romances with underclassmen, and the P5s protag has the largest amount of romances with older women.
Not that it changes anything XD.

[X][Book] Mind Over Matter
[X][Commute] Agree.

This feels the most in character for Shirou. The discovery that Angra can potentially hijack his body is the more alarming and pressing discovery than the vivid dream that may or may not be important.
 
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[X][Book] Studying Techniques for Dummies

The other choices are either too meta or too oc. From what we've seen, this Shirou is not good at Academics, so we might as well try and fix that. Also Sae and Makoto would approve (don't disappoint/make mad the people you live with, after all).

[X][Commute] Agree.

Bond opportunities and the potential to drag her into Metaverse shenanigans early. A much better way to introduce her and her skills than in the original P5 in my opinion,
 
Going back to revisit Abyss' explanations on each Archetype, cause I'm curious about their thoughts on the Bad End that led to this crossover.

AbyssalDivine said:
So, this bad end is reached if you don't choose to give Avalon back to Saber. It's a total violation of everything he's supposed to have learned up until this point, and it says that in the end, he couldn't fully put his trust in someone else.
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Hmmm. I wouldn't completely agree? You can only choose to give back Avalon to Saber if you choose to spend your last few hours holding a strategy meeting, and then choosing to give Saber back her Sheath out of a total of three different plans. Considering that you can instead choose to spend your time talking to Kiritsugu (basically Shirou visiting his grave) or spending time with Saber, I wouldn't say this Bad End automatically reflects Shirou's reluctance to give back the Sheath. But, for the sake of the narrative, I'm going to assume that in this timeline, Shirou did hold a strategy meeting with Saber but actively chose not to give back her Sheath, choosing one of the other two plans instead. This particular course of actions does fit with your explanation. However-

AbyssalDivine said:
He follows an incredibly similar path to Archer until the very end, only reaching that utopia because Merlin took some pity on him.
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I... Can't really agree with this take. The entire point of Last Episode is a reaffirmation of Shirou's ideals, that he was able to achieve the impossible and able to meet the same pre-requisites needed to enter Avalon through sheer determination to meet Saber again, becoming a true Hero. Cheapening all of that by saying that he only enters Avalon because Merlin takes pity on him feels like a gross underestimation of what Shirou had to do to reunite with Saber.

Like, by that logic, Shirou trying to save the love of his life at the risk of destroying the entire world is equally "inhuman".


Also, this Archetype gives off huge FGO Bedivere vibes, what with the whole "unwilling to give away/back Artoria's NP resulting in their own personal failure".
 
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Birthday said:
I... Can't really agree with this take.
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This right here ☝️
The whole prophecy that's made for them "One must endlessly pursue, while the other must tirelessly await".
The entire idea is based on Shirou commiting both to Saber, but also his ideals, when he managed to get her to believe in herself again. He effectively reaffirms his own, his true goal is to see her again, but he can't do that unless he lives his life doing that same thing that he preached to her.

And then, he rejected Alaya's deal, refusing to go down Archers path, and strives to become a Hero worthy of seeing her again. Ultimately I presume, when he dies instead of becoming a Heroic Spirit, he goes to Avalon.
 
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IronHydra said:
Ultimately I presume, when he dies instead of becoming a Heroic Spirit, he goes to Avalon instead.
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Yeah, Fate Shirou doesn't have UBW's knowledge of his Reality Marble or HF's memory of Archer's Projections. And he doesn't have any external sources of mana to draw on, unlike in El Melloi where he can cast UBW by breaking Gems Rin has infused with huge amounts of mana. At best, he'll be recorded as a Phantom Spirit in the Throne like the Hessian and Lobo when he enters Avalon.
 
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The reason for Angry Mango being silent in Yaldy's Velvet Room that immediately came to mind for me is that he's gonna be our personal persona.
 
[X][Book] Studying Techniques for Dummies

[X][Commute] Agree

Research helps us learn all our other skills, so it's kinda vital that we increase that first so we have an easier time training everything else up to where we want them to be.
 
IronHydra said:
Edit: This is what we're about here-
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I mean personally I'd like to go for Haru, but hey the forbidden Sae Route is good too, especially since she wasn't available in canon so this would be another Shieou original thing.
Birthday said:
Hmmm. A bit disappointed that Angra Mainyu isn't like, locked in a dungeon somewhere, but on the other hand, this Igor is a lying POS that's stacking the deck against us, and is presumably stacking it even more in his favor since he isn't choosing someone naturally rebellious like Joker as the advocate for Chaos/Human Freedom in the "game". Angra would be obviously be opposed to his grand plan just for the simple fact that he'd be playing second fiddle to another deity, so he might be intentionally excluded from the Velvet Room.
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Who knows, maybe he's trapped in the basement, or somewhere we can't hear him.
 
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AUnderSave said:
the forbidden Sae Route
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YEP, Sae Route all the way to me. He longs for his soulmate in another world, but hey! While on the way to her he can still do some regular living stuff (partly)

when I played P5 for the first time, before Royal had came out, the beginning of the game starts, I see Sae. I think "Oh yeah, I know who I'm romancing this game" because my previous experience with the game series had me assume she would be an option.

Boy was I devastated. :cry:
 
IronHydra said:
YEP, Sae Route all the way to me. He longs for his soulmate in another world, but hey! While on the way to her he can still do some regular living stuff (partly)

when I played P5 for the first time, before Royal had came out, the beginning of the game starts, I see Sae. I think "Oh yeah, I know who I'm romancing this game" because my previous experience with the game series had me assume she would be an option.

Boy was I devastated. :cry:
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Crazy how we can Romance Two Adults
women and yet the plot important one we somehow can't.
 
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