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Fate/Collapsing World

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wellis said:
So...what is Sakura then here? I'm hoping the situation here with the Matou may, hopefully, be less awful than Fate canon?
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That - is a very good question here. Unlike in FSN, there's no particular reason Zouken would need a magus heir - not least because, you know, magi aren't a thing. The Tohsaka don't have stigmata - maybe they may have a bit higher honkai resistance than the average, familially, but not to a particularly notable extent.

Rin's password is "homeKwrecker", so we can probably assume that Kariya is still a thing, and that he ruined their family. Possibly Sakura is Aoi's child by Kariya from an affair?

That would make the most sense.

If you mean what Zouken's evil plan is - if I had to guess, without evidence, he's planning to create a pseudo-Herrscher, or an actual Herrscher.

Hmmmm. He could also be an operative of World Serpent (they're a secretive group that's been around for about as long as Schicksal, arguably longer, super heavy spoilers, but we'll learn stuff about them sooner or later). If AE wants boots on the ground to keep an eye of Fuyuki, World Serpent likely would as well.
 
[X] The fridge is stocked with Fen's ingredients. He said Shirou can go ahead and use them, though they probably won't be a perfect fit for Shirou's repertoire. Still, Shirou can cook tonight's dinner easily enough, and spend some time with Fen Chao.
[X] Go into the city to buy groceries. Even if he can make do off Fen's ingredients for a bit, Shirou plans to cook as many of his meals as feasible, and will need his own stock of necessities to do so. Rude as hell to operate off Fen Chao's generosity longer than the minimum necessary. It'll also help him familiarize himself with Soukai City and meet a few of the people he'll be seeing a lot of while he's here.

Shirou cooks. That is all.

Speaking of the discussion of manga stuff, I'm just going to drop this link here; that is a link to the official translation site for the HI3 mangas, for anyone who cares to peruse it. It's not the entirety of the game's storyline, you'd need to play the game for that, but I figured I'd make the link available for people who wanted it. It might not have everything you can find on other hosting sites, but given that it's maintained by miHoYo we can fairly safely assume that what's there is generally canon unless told otherwise.

EDIT: On consideration, I will echo @Scia's warning that some of the mangas and events depicted therein past the link constitute potential spoilers for events that haven't happened in-quest yet. So, y'know, if you do decide to click through, be forewarned.

Pale Wolf said:
Namely, Cocolia.

I don't know the finer details of ME Corp (see the previous canon thing above), but Ryouma seems to actually be an AE enforcer himself, so it's plausible his embezzlement case was literally Cocolia making a play to seize her own control over his assets - right now she may only be in control of AE Yakutia rather than like literally everything east of Kazakhstan.
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Mission 4-2 of the game actually makes the explicit statement that Ryouma's case was part of a power play by Cocolia, yes. Admittedly, that's a claim made by Theresa and Himeko, who're somewhat outside AE's inner workings, but it lines up with Cocolia's behavior in the AE Invasion manga arc and later game-story revelations regarding
her relationship with the World Serpent, which is a whole 'nother kettle of fish.
 
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I want to note that the HI3 manga also spoils some stuff that would happen in our future.
[X] Fen Chao says he cooks, so Shirou will let him do the first meal and spend some time getting to know his roommate.
[X] Go into the city to buy groceries. Even if he can make do off Fen's ingredients for a bit, Shirou plans to cook as many of his meals as feasible, and will need his own stock of necessities to do so. Rude as hell to operate off Fen Chao's generosity longer than the minimum necessary. It'll also help him familiarize himself with Soukai City and meet a few of the people he'll be seeing a lot of while he's here.
 
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[X] The fridge is stocked with Fen's ingredients. He said Shirou can go ahead and use them, though they probably won't be a perfect fit for Shirou's repertoire. Still, Shirou can cook tonight's dinner easily enough, and spend some time with Fen Chao.
[X] Go into the city to buy groceries. Even if he can make do off Fen's ingredients for a bit, Shirou plans to cook as many of his meals as feasible, and will need his own stock of necessities to do so. Rude as hell to operate off Fen Chao's generosity longer than the minimum necessary. It'll also help him familiarize himself with Soukai City and meet a few of the people he'll be seeing a lot of while he's here.
 
[X] The fridge is stocked with Fen's ingredients. He said Shirou can go ahead and use them, though they probably won't be a perfect fit for Shirou's repertoire. Still, Shirou can cook tonight's dinner easily enough, and spend some time with Fen Chao.
[X] Go into the city to buy groceries. Even if he can make do off Fen's ingredients for a bit, Shirou plans to cook as many of his meals as feasible, and will need his own stock of necessities to do so. Rude as hell to operate off Fen Chao's generosity longer than the minimum necessary. It'll also help him familiarize himself with Soukai City and meet a few of the people he'll be seeing a lot of while he's here.

Hmph, we may be the newcomer here, but I wonder what the boy can bring to the table. For now though, we shall establish our Dominance over the kitchen. Do you have enough ingredients, boy?

P.S: Will Saber possibly be here?
 
[X] The fridge is stocked with Fen's ingredients. He said Shirou can go ahead and use them, though they probably won't be a perfect fit for Shirou's repertoire. Still, Shirou can cook tonight's dinner easily enough, and spend some time with Fen Chao.
[X] Go into the city to buy groceries. Even if he can make do off Fen's ingredients for a bit, Shirou plans to cook as many of his meals as feasible, and will need his own stock of necessities to do so. Rude as hell to operate off Fen Chao's generosity longer than the minimum necessary. It'll also help him familiarize himself with Soukai City and meet a few of the people he'll be seeing a lot of while he's here.
 
[X] The fridge is stocked with Fen's ingredients. He said Shirou can go ahead and use them, though they probably won't be a perfect fit for Shirou's repertoire. Still, Shirou can cook tonight's dinner easily enough, and spend some time with Fen Chao.
[X] Go into the city to buy groceries. Even if he can make do off Fen's ingredients for a bit, Shirou plans to cook as many of his meals as feasible, and will need his own stock of necessities to do so. Rude as hell to operate off Fen Chao's generosity longer than the minimum necessary. It'll also help him familiarize himself with Soukai City and meet a few of the people he'll be seeing a lot of while he's here.

Meeting the Jeanne twins is really tempting, but I think that its more in-character for Shirou to go off and buy food to avoid being 'rude' by using his roomate's ingredients to cook.
 
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wellis said:
So...what is Sakura then here? I'm hoping the situation here with the Matou may, hopefully, be less awful than Fate canon?
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Yes, but mostly by the miracle of low standards. It's more or less been transferred over (Honkverse has plenty of unethical mad scientists who appreciate having experimental subjects), but I didn't see a need to transfer over the sexual elements of the Matou dickworms, so I didn't.

With that said, while she would be all too happy to be a daughter of the Tohsaka again, Rin doesn't actually know that and is under the impression (in large part because she wants it to be the case) that she's having a happy life where she's been adopted into the Matou.

wellis said:
So how much has her lifespan been cut down by?
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She'll know when she reaches it. It's not easily predictable, the damage occurs in spikes when the honkai they're empowered with and fighting surrounded by overcomes their stigmata-enhanced resilience and inflicts lingering physical damage - the shortened lifespan is essentially the aggregate effect of all of those incidents adding up until the body just doesn't really work anymore.

Statistically, for a Valkyrie of Luvia's Honkai tolerance (high) and general temperament (bold, aggressive, risk-prone), her life expectancy is into about the mid-sixties, but this depends heavily on the situations she ends up in and how well she manages them.

For another example, Sakura has about the same tolerance but is timid and extremely cautious, so a Valkyrie with that profile has a life expectancy into her seventies.

Shirou, on the other hand, has the same profile as Major Murata - low tolerance, extreme risk factors due to temperament and a poor understanding of personal limits - and has a life expectancy of about thirty.

However, these statistics were assembled for conventional Schicksal Valkyries, who operate in a purely paramilitary environment. Luvia is under conventional Schicksal training and operations, so that's about her statistical expectation, but Shirou is at St Freya. St Freya is a much more protective environment with a much gentler approach, and expects to achieve higher life expectancies, but it simply hasn't been in operation long enough to gather any data on the topic - St Freya's oldest alumni are about twenty years old, the school's been in operation for like four years.

Sena Kumo said:
P.S: Will Saber possibly be here?
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There is someone with a King Arthur stigmata, and one of the votes will meet them.

Nottheunmaker said:
I'm 99% sure I know that character, and if you're doing what I think you're doing, I will laugh so hard.
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Ah, a fellow of taste.
 
Pale Wolf said:
Yes, but mostly by the miracle of low standards. It's more or less been transferred over (Honkverse has plenty of unethical mad scientists who appreciate having experimental subjects), but I didn't see a need to transfer over the sexual elements of the Matou dickworms, so I didn't.

With that said, while she would be all too happy to be a daughter of the Tohsaka again, Rin doesn't actually know that and is under the impression (in large part because she wants it to be the case) that
she's having a happy life where she's been adopted into the Matou.
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Since in Fate canon, we know that the Edelfelts were a choice Tokiomi had considered sending Sakura over to, here what is the reason Tokiomi had to give away Sakura?
Pale Wolf said:
Statistically, for a Valkyrie of Luvia's Honkai tolerance (high) and general temperament (bold, aggressive, risk-prone), her life expectancy is into about the mid-sixties, but this depends heavily on the situations she ends up in and how well she manages them.
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Pale Wolf said:
However, these statistics were assembled for conventional Schicksal Valkyries, who operate in a purely paramilitary environment. Luvia is under conventional Schicksal training and operations, so that's about her statistical expectation, but Shirou is at St Freya. St Freya is a much more protective environment with a much gentler approach, and expects to achieve higher life expectancies, but it simply hasn't been in operation long enough to gather any data on the topic - St Freya's oldest alumni are about twenty years old, the school's been in operation for like four years.
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Regarding where Luvia is/was trained, is it much more prestigious than St. Freya?

What is the main rivalry aspect here between Rin & Luvia, assuming the two ever meet or have met?

In Fate canon, there was the issue of the Tohsaka having possibly taken some stuff from the Edelfelts via one of them marrying into the Tohsaka after the end of the 3rd Grail War.

What may be equivalent to that here?
 
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wellis said:
We see at the age of 19 in the epilogue of ufotable UBW that he's already quite a bit taller than Rin and she apparently grew some as well. Pretty sure his height is all natural. :D

I mean in canon Kotomine grew 10 cm between Zero & Stay Night. And no, Nasu doesn't know how that happened either. :D
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Four options.
  1. Eat your vitamins, say your prayers, and drink a nice warm cup of Grail mud each night before bed, and you'll grow up big and strong.
  2. Kotomine's magic circuits were still developing in the Fourth War. Regular use of magic circuits made Shirou shoot up like a beansprout, develop big ol' tiddy, bleach his hair, and tan like a Trump. It does things, man.
  3. Zero Kotomine was just hunched over out of depression the entire time, and the moment he had his revelation with Gilgamesh he straightened up to a nauseating chorus of crunching cartilage, like a thousand orphans chewing dry cereal.
  4. Stay Night Kotomine is just wearing lifts and everyone is too polite to say anything.
wellis said:
And hmm would Luvia here show interest in Shirou like in Fate canon a lot?
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He has a sexy gemsuit. Those are natural aphrodisiacs to the Finnish.
 
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Revlid said:
Four options.
  1. Eat your vitamins, say your prayers, and drink a nice warm cup of Grail mud each night before bed, and you'll grow up big and strong.
  2. Kotomine's magic circuits were still developing in the Fourth War. Regular use of magic circuits made Shirou shoot up like a beansprout, develop big ol' tiddy, bleach his hair, and tan like a Trump. It does things, man.
  3. Zero Kotomine was just hunched over out of depression the entire time, and the moment he had his revelation with Gilgamesh he straightened up to a nauseating chorus of crunching cartilage, like a thousand orphans chewing dry cereal.
  4. Stay Night Kotomine is just wearing lifts and everyone is too polite to say anything.
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I just assumed that there is a really good gym in Fuyuki which Shirou, Waver, and Kirei all went to, which just makes you fucking jacked.

Unfortunately canon has defeated me by showing that Waver is not, in fact, jacked (this is extremely unfortunate).
 
MJ12 Commando said:
I just assumed that there is a really good gym in Fuyuki which Shirou, Waver, and Kirei all went to, which just makes you fucking jacked.

Unfortunately canon has defeated me by showing that Waver is not, in fact, jacked (this is extremely unfortunate).
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I'm surprised he isn't.

Nasu & Takeuchi draw men shredded as a default.

I guess it was to show Waver's slender physique?
 
wellis said:
Regarding where Luvia is/was trained, is it much more prestigious than St. Freya?
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It's conventional Schicksal training. We don't exactly have much of a look at it in HI3, but I assume it's basically a military thing - they have regional bases that they get trained at. Given Luvia's location in Europe, she may be getting trained at Schicksal HQ - The Nine Realms.

MJ12 Commando said:
Unfortunately canon has defeated me by showing that Waver is not, in fact, jacked (this is extremely unfortunate).
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Look, it would seriously break my suspension of disbelief if Waver ended up jacked.

Pale Wolf said:
There is someone with a King Arthur stigmata, and one of the votes will meet them.
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You know, given recent revelations vis a vis King Arthur in Honkai, that'd be super interesting.
 
Shirou coughed into a hand. "Uh... I'm Emiya Shirou, it's a pleasure to meet you." He didn't think he was gay, but when someone was this pretty normal orientations didn't apply so well. His libido was not able to detect the Y chromosome. This would be awkward.
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I've heard a line like this before. They ended up happily married two years later. :V


[X] Fen Chao says he cooks, so Shirou will let him do the first meal and spend some time getting to know his roommate.
[X] Go into the city to buy groceries. Even if he can make do off Fen's ingredients for a bit, Shirou plans to cook as many of his meals as feasible, and will need his own stock of necessities to do so. Rude as hell to operate off Fen Chao's generosity longer than the minimum necessary. It'll also help him familiarize himself with Soukai City and meet a few of the people he'll be seeing a lot of while he's here.
 
wellis said:
Since in Fate canon, we know that the Edelfelts were a choice Tokiomi had considered sending Sakura over to, here what is the reason Tokiomi had to give away Sakura?
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Shirou doesn't know, so answering that would be spoilers.

Regarding where Luvia is/was trained, is it much more prestigious than St. Freya?
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Most likely, yes. As Who? said, she's most likely training at Central, or at a European Schicksal nexus - Schicksal is fundamentally a European organization, and while its branches beyond Europe are highly capable, in terms of prestige the European ones are the highest. In particular, while St Freya is likely to produce really good results and was founded by the granddaughter of Schicksal's Overseer, it's still only been in operation for four years, so it hasn't really had time to build up a lot of prestige.

What is the main rivalry aspect here between Rin & Luvia, assuming the two ever meet or have met?

In Fate canon, there was the issue of the Tohsaka having possibly taken some stuff from the Edelfelts via one of them marrying into the Tohsaka after the end of the 3rd Grail War.

What may be equivalent to that here?
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To be honest, I haven't decided as of yet. The Edelfelts haven't been super-important in my plotting just yet, though obviously if Luvia does show up you can expect to have her family history nailed down by then.

Who? said:
It's conventional Schicksal training. We don't exactly have much of a look at it in HI3, but I assume it's basically a military thing - they have regional bases that they get trained at. Given Luvia's location in Europe, she may be getting trained at Schicksal HQ - The Nine Realms.
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The Nine Realms is a mythological location in prehistoric China :p

I don't think Schicksal HQ has a particularly special name, though it does bear noting that it's literally a floating archipelago flying over the Mediterranean.

You know, given recent revelations vis a vis King Arthur in Honkai, that'd be super interesting.
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God, those revelations were hilariously timed, given I was just starting this at the time...

MiracleGrow said:
I've heard a line like this before. They ended up happily married two years later. :V
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As you do.
 
Pale Wolf said:
I don't think Schicksal HQ has a particularly special name, though it does bear noting that it's literally a floating archipelago flying over the Mediterranean.
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Well, if you want to give it a special name in this quest you could always draw on the Fate side of things - call it the Wandering Sea or something.
 
Pale Wolf said:
The Nine Realms is a mythological location in prehistoric China :p

I don't think Schicksal HQ has a particularly special name, though it does bear noting that it's literally a floating archipelago flying over the Mediterranean.
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I meant Nine Worlds, after the Yggdrasil thing. Since they seem to be named after them, what with Helheim Research Labs.

Pale Wolf said:
Nah, ME Corp is mostly intact, but is controlled by its board of directors. (Hasn't actually happened yet, the Raidening happens on Nov 16 and it's still late August)

Namely, Cocolia.

I don't know the finer details of ME Corp (see the previous canon thing above), but Ryouma seems to actually be an AE enforcer himself, so it's plausible his embezzlement case was literally Cocolia making a play to seize her own control over his assets - right now she may only be in control of AE Yakutia rather than like literally everything east of Kazakhstan.
Also, Raiden Ryouma wasn't actually arrested. He's literally missing, he went on the lam. He may have been arrested but e is not presently in custody.
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I actually checked this, and you seem to be absolutely right!

Check this, from the Second Eruption, ch. 21.



Presumably, Ryoma was closer to the Einstein/Tesla/Welt faction of AE.

According to this post, he joined 1983.
 
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Pale Wolf said:
He applied at the start of the year, actually, but I was taking a look again. Seventh year running
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Pale Wolf said:
it's still only been in operation for four years
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So uhm, which is it? Has St. Freya been running for 7 years, or 4?
It's kinda hard to apply to a school when it won't be open for a year, it's especially hard to do it for three years in a row before it opens.

Unless you're telling me that Shirou was so determined to get in, that he started applying the moment he heard it was being built.
 
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Jackofcookiejars said:
So uhm, which is it? Has St. Freya been running for 7 years, or 4?
It's kinda hard to apply to a school when it won't be open for a year, it's especially hard to do it for three years in a row before it opens.

Unless you're telling me that Shirou was so determined to get in, that he started applying the moment he heard it was being built.
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Hahahah, nice catch. I was running off Shirou's 'when would he apply' when I wrote that chapter, and only looked up the specific time of founding later. Lemme just edit that.
 
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