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Fate/Blackened Sugar

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[X] "I trust her to do what she wants. Right now it's to amuse herself and find whatever reminds her of that king she talked about, no matter the consequences. I'm not blind to how easily that can change, Manaka makes it pretty clear that she cares about her goals above all else. The question is if what she wants to do matches up with what I can accept. If not, I'll do what needs to be done.
 
Signupname said:
It's not personal morality, it's that she's a literal eldritch abomination
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Gonna have to disagree with this part. A main point of Fate/Prototype Fragments is that Manaka became human the moment she met Arthur, with all the good and incredibly bad that came with it.

[X] "I trust her to do what she wants. Right now it's to amuse herself and find whatever reminds her of that king she talked about, no matter the consequences. I'm not blind to how easily that can change, Manaka makes it pretty clear that she cares about her goals above all else. The question is if what she wants to do matches up with what I can accept. If not, I'll do what needs to be done.
 
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Muramasa said:
This does not work. We may very well need the other grail war participants and the church to take down Manaka. We're not going to get that help if the church has concluded we're her accomplice or we've already eliminated or killed the other masters and servants that could've very well helped us. Or they've rightfully concluded that we're not trust worthy.

If we're too slow to act on Manaka, we're not going to be able to.
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The only issue is I don't see which grail war participants would be willing to work with us?
 
Signupname said:
It's not personal morality, it's that she's a literal eldritch abomination that would fuck us up no matter what she does if she goes far enough. So we dealt with her early to prevent this shit from happening to us.
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My argument was that Manaka's currently "off the clock" so to speak. There's not Arthur, so why bother bringing out Beast VI and ending the world to fulfill his wish? That she isn't personally invested in this whole mess enough to go full-eldritch abomination. Or at least not enough that it's better to get this last bit of very important information once she gets back. Because there's precedent for both her actually being an ally in this or turning out to be exactly as bad as you say.

Right now, Manaka's half-assing this. It's just entertainment for her while she waits for the next Proto war. I want a bit more information on her and her goals before I declare one or the other, because, if she isn't going full monster and we betray her anyway than all we've done is motivate the person who utterly dominated their war without Beast powers to crush Hans.
 
[x] "I don't trust her, especially not after that monster in her Mirror... Or her Blackened Servant. But though she's may be a danger to us, we still ought to realize the full extent of her plans before deciding how to deal with her."

This one's different.
 
Frozen Flame said:
My argument was that Manaka's currently "off the clock" so to speak. There's not Arthur, so why bother bringing out Beast VI and ending the world to fulfill his wish? That she isn't personally invested in this whole mess enough to go full-eldritch abomination. Or at least not enough that it's better to get this last bit of very important information once she gets back. Because there's precedent for both her actually being an ally in this or turning out to be exactly as bad as you say.

Right now, Manaka's half-assing this. It's just entertainment for her while she waits for the next Proto war. I want a bit more information on her and her goals before I declare one or the other, because, if she isn't going full monster and we betray her anyway than all we've done is motivate the person who utterly dominated their war without Beast powers to crush Hans.
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AnonymousRabbit said:
Manaka looked up the sky with a wistful look and said, "Well... No. But I am looking into something. I feel something in this world but, it seems far... And it reminds me of Him."

"Your King?" You asked with a frown.

"Perhaps. In some form or the other," Manaka said with a serene smile.
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Well... it looks like she might be about to start something
 
[X] "I trust her to do what she wants. Right now it's to amuse herself and find whatever reminds her of that king she talked about, no matter the consequences. I'm not blind to how easily that can change, Manaka makes it pretty clear that she cares about her goals above all else. The question is if what she wants to do matches up with what I can accept. If not, I'll do what needs to be done.
 
>Magus killing random people for X reason
Big whoop. Should we make a count of how many Hans has killed?
We really don't get to go muh morals here.

[X] "I trust her to do what she wants. Right now it's to amuse herself and find whatever reminds her of that king she talked about, no matter the consequences. I'm not blind to how easily that can change, Manaka makes it pretty clear that she cares about her goals above all else. The question is if what she wants to do matches up with what I can accept. If not, I'll do what needs to be done.
 
primjulia said:
>Magus killing random people for X reason
Big whoop. Should we make a count of how many Hans has killed?
We really don't get to go muh morals here.
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My objection to Manaka isn't because she's killing people, my objection to Manaka is that she might bring about the end of the world and that Kirisami would be easier to control.

Edit: wait didn't she just tell us she wasn't behind the disappearances?
 
dat_noob1926812 said:
My objection to Manaka isn't because she's killing people, my objection to Manaka is that she might bring about the end of the world and that Kirisami would be easier to control.

Edit: wait didn't she just tell us she wasn't behind the disappearances?
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She tries to bring about the end of the world in Proto because she's obsessively in love with Arthur and sees it as the only way to grant his wish. No Arthur means she doesn't actually have a reason to bother. Still dangerous, but she isn't an automatic doomsday clock like Tiamat.

Yep. While she certainly can lie, just look at Fragments, given her past behavior towards Hans it's unlikely she would start bothering right then. Besides, she has her own version of Potnia Theron so I don't think she really would need to sacrifice people right now.

EDIT: On a side note, if anyone's thinking of switching to the write-in now would be the time. It's currently three behind.
 
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[X] "I trust her to do what she wants. Right now it's to amuse herself and find whatever reminds her of that king she talked about, no matter the consequences. I'm not blind to how easily that can change, Manaka makes it pretty clear that she cares about her goals above all else. The question is if what she wants to do matches up with what I can accept. If not, I'll do what needs to be done.
 
[X] "I trust her to do what she wants. Right now it's to amuse herself and find whatever reminds her of that king she talked about, no matter the consequences. I'm not blind to how easily that can change, Manaka makes it pretty clear that she cares about her goals above all else. The question is if what she wants to do matches up with what I can accept. If not, I'll do what needs to be done.
Frozen Flame said:
She tries to bring about the end of the world in Proto because she's obsessively in love with Arthur and sees it as the only way to grant his wish. No Arthur means she doesn't actually have a reason to bother. Still dangerous, but she isn't an automatic doomsday clock like Tiamat.

Yep. While she certainly can lie, just look at Fragments, given her past behavior towards Hans it's unlikely she would start bothering right then. Besides, she has her own version of Potnia Theron so I don't think she really would need to sacrifice people right now.

EDIT: On a side note, if anyone's thinking of switching to the write-in now would be the time. It's currently three behind.
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I'll go for the write-in but my point on her host being easier to control still stands
 
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Frozen Flame said:
My argument was that Manaka's currently "off the clock" so to speak. There's not Arthur, so why bother bringing out Beast VI and ending the world to fulfill his wish? That she isn't personally invested in this whole mess enough to go full-eldritch abomination. Or at least not enough that it's better to get this last bit of very important information once she gets back. Because there's precedent for both her actually being an ally in this or turning out to be exactly as bad as you say.

Right now, Manaka's half-assing this. It's just entertainment for her while she waits for the next Proto war. I want a bit more information on her and her goals before I declare one or the other, because, if she isn't going full monster and we betray her anyway than all we've done is motivate the person who utterly dominated their war without Beast powers to crush Hans.
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She sensed Arthur. Saber Artoria is still alive in this quest. I really don't think she's going to 'half ass it' for much longer.
 
[X] "I trust her to do what she wants. Right now it's to amuse herself and find whatever reminds her of that king she talked about, no matter the consequences. I'm not blind to how easily that can change, Manaka makes it pretty clear that she cares about her goals above all else. The question is if what she wants to do matches up with what I can accept. If not, I'll do what needs to be done.

I don't like the binary nature of this vote. Hans has shown himself to be pretty flexible when dealing with his allies and enemies so he's the type to adjust based on whatever info that comes up.

So far, Manaka has shown herself to be disturbing in her existence and powers, but she hasn't gone off the deep end just yet and is content to 'play' at the moment.
 
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What really worries me is the implications we're getting from rabbit that we are running out of time to free Ayumi. But I haven't seen any options to start doing something about that? has anyone else noticed any options that'd lead to this?
 
We haven't the first idea about how we'd go about saving Ayumi. If there was a non-write in option that looked like it might work I might even vote for it, but nothing that I'm aware of has come up.
 
dat_noob1926812 said:
What really worries me is the implications we're getting from rabbit that we are running out of time to free Ayumi. But I haven't seen any options to start doing something about that? has anyone else noticed any options that'd lead to this?
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That would probably be a following vote, assuming we actually vote to do something about Manaka. Thread seems content to watch and wait.
 
Muramasa said:
That would probably be a following vote, assuming we actually vote to do something about Manaka. Thread seems content to watch and wait.
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Alright then that's pushed me over
[X] "Of course I don't trust her. Not after seeing that monster in her Mirror... Or her Blackened Servant. She's a danger to us, yes, and it's just a matter of planning on how I could dispose of her. But again, I can't do it on my own... So I'll need your help again, Berserker."

I trust berserker he's been goading us to turn on Manaka since the start (inb4 he's been testing our loyalty and fucking wipes us out immediately after we turn on Manaka)

Manaka was a useful early war ally but now if we let her fester we could lose a controllable late war participant

EDIT: I understand that after what happened with lancer we are a little unnerved to take an action like this but we need to take action now.
 
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Not sure that I agree it would be the following vote, and basing your vote purely on the belief it will be so seems overly optimistic to me. If the following vote is just agreeing to make plans against Manaka and then moving on to something unrelated, would you regret it?
 
Impstar said:
Not sure that I agree it would be the following vote, and basing your vote purely on the belief it will be so seems overly optimistic to me. If the following vote is just agreeing to make plans against Manaka and then moving on to something unrelated, would you regret it?
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I'd expect it to at least open up the opinion next time we have a rest, I imagine that we are going to go into preparation for the coming fight after this vote.

My vote isn't based solely on that it, I'm voting this way because I trust berserker and simply waiting out to get the option hasn't worked so far.

On top of that Rabbit at several points has implied that we are on the clock now, which is why initially I went with this vote before changing to the write-in.
 
Impstar said:
Not sure that I agree it would be the following vote, and basing your vote purely on the belief it will be so seems overly optimistic to me. If the following vote is just agreeing to make plans against Manaka and then moving on to something unrelated, would you regret it?
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I can't say it would be the next vote afterwards, but if we're going to vote to do something about Manaka, a vote on 'how to deal with Manaka' also seems appropriate.
 
[X] "I trust her to do what she wants. Right now it's to amuse herself and find whatever reminds her of that king she talked about, no matter the consequences. I'm not blind to how easily that can change, Manaka makes it pretty clear that she cares about her goals above all else. The question is if what she wants to do matches up with what I can accept. If not, I'll do what needs to be done.
 
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