I think the main reason is that the ME universe should be able to weaponise lasers on an infantry scale, and lasers ignore kinetic barriers, which would make the primary form of defence useless.

As I mentioned above, I'm choosing to interpret the game design as stating that for whatever reason, Mass Effect weapons are better than anything else the Citadel could field outside of very niche special/heavy weapons.

As for why other people argue it?

I dunno, it's the internet. We argue everything here.
 
I never really got what people find so unbelievable about the dominance of Mass Effect weapons. Sometimes one type of weapon is just more practical than others. Just look at what we use today: lots and of lots of weapons which use some sort of explosive as propellant, some hand thrown weapons (grenades) and missiles/rockets. Thats it, with very few exceptions. There are some experiments in other areas (lasers, ETC (which is just a fancy way to ignite the propellant), railguns, ...) but those aren't really in use yet and when they will be used they will be used in niche applications at first.
Historically there were a lot of alternative ways to propel a projectile: catapults, strings (bows, crossbows, ballistae), air pressure guns, slings, atlatls, .... But none of them are in use today because gunpowder and then other explosive propellants are currently just so much better or have other advantages which makes them preferable.
I think it partly has to do with how stupid Mass Effect weapons are.

I mean, put mass effect tech with a conventional bullet and it would outperform ME weapons in most every category but ammo capacity
 
Commander!Faith's lack of military knowledge has come up before - including in this latest chapter.

Also a distinct lack of political awareness and capabilities, IIRC.

Still, you'd think that Faith would've taken some effort to educate herself a little on military equipment and tactics.

Also, I thought 'technical' generally referred to a ute or other flatbed of some description with a machine gun on the back.

Not quite. IIRC a 'technical' is any civilian or otherwise not purpose built vehicle for the role that has a weapon mounted upon it. Usually the weapon is some variety of heavy machine gun due to relative low cost, volume and weight of ammunition, but grenade throwers or even rocket launch systems are also possible under the definition. Operators of such weapons are invariably rather exposed to the battlefield as a result of the kludged nature of such weapons and under perform in comparison to similarly equipped actual military vehicles.

They are still quite dangerous in an infantry support role due to their high speed and heavier weapons systems than most infantry these things are likely to encounter, especially since a mounted weapon tends to be more stable and easier to keep on target.
 
I think the main reason is that the ME universe should be able to weaponise lasers on an infantry scale, and lasers ignore kinetic barriers, which would make the primary form of defence useless.

The number one reason not to use a laser weapon - if you have anything remotely resembling the Geneva Conventions in play - is the civilian factor. If you shoot bullets down-range, they are almost certainly going to stay down-range. Newton insists on it. However, if you shoot photons down-range, they can reflect in any direction they damn well please. Worse, in multiple directions. Light loves to scatter.

Sure, most of those scattered reflections will not be capable of harming your own infantry (assuming you actually have equipped them with anti-laser protection); excluding a "golden BB", at most they might fry your infantry's helmet optics or whatever. But anyone not wearing anti-laser protection - i.e. civilians - are going to have a very bad day. Human eyes - and pretty much any similarly evolved visual apparatus - are delicate organs that evolved to handle ordinary sunlight. A battlefield-grade laser weapon, even at the anti-infantry tier, is multiple orders of magnitude more concentrated than sunlight. Even a millisecond's scatter could permanently blind a human eye.

TLDR: if you're planning to fight anywhere near unprotected civilian eyeballs you care about, you don't use laser weapons. They're great in space though - unlike a mass projectile there's much less worry that any shots you miss with are going to clobber some unsuspecting civilization a few (thousand or million) years later.
 
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Anybody care to calculate the minimum beam divergence of a gamma ray laser with a minimum with a minimum diameter of, let's say, 5cm?
 
Anybody care to calculate the minimum beam divergence of a gamma ray laser with a minimum with a minimum diameter of, let's say, 5cm?

I'd go with microwave, because it doesn't harm human anatomy in any way other than heat and is reflected very little, making it relatively safe to use in populated areas. For the iconic laser look, a second, fully tranparent laser setup for visible light could be added to have the same beam path as the weapon, acting as a 'tracer' to tell the soldier where they are shooting.
 
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Anybody care to calculate the minimum beam divergence of a gamma ray laser with a minimum with a minimum diameter of, let's say, 5cm?

Short answer: what divergence? Longer answer: the basic gaussian formula is freq/(pi*radius), so assuming a 10 picometre laser with a 25 millimetre radius, we get a divergence half-angle - the arc from centre - of about 7*10-9​ degrees (feel free to double check that, my laser math is rusty).

I'd go with microwave, because it doesn't harm human anatomy in any way other than heat and is reflected very little, making it relatively safe to use in populated areas. For the iconic laser look, a second, fully tranparent laser setup for visible light could be added to have the same beam path as the weapon, acting as a 'tracer' to tell the soldier where they are shooting.

Microwave isn't reflected much by meat, but metal does a much better job of it and may be prevalent in populated areas ("hey sarge, these people still build their cars out of metal...") or used by the enemy ("hey sarge, slight problem with what these robots are made out of...").

Although your "tracer" idea - if the tech level was high enough for a compact, weapons-grade, tunable laser with a big enough frequency range, your low-power targeting beam could be used to calculate the best absorption wavelengths of the target material to maximise energy deposition while minimising scatter. That would have advantages over the tendency of high calibre ammunition to keep going (through the target, the wall behind it, the civilian behind that, the...) but whether that would be enough to outweigh the disadvantages ("hey sarge, their weapons aren't being stopped by these cars?")...
 
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92 - Reunion
92 - Reunion
Unlike the last time we'd met the perky Asian (?) commander, this time we were meeting not on the more neutral ground of the Citadel - although that had been an accident and the conversation quickly relocated, - but rather on one of her own vessels.

She called it her 'yacht' but as the Jacob Keyes drew closer - massively dwarfed by the other vessel, - I began to find that designation somewhat optimistic.

The Jacob Keyes docked with the ship in a large hangar near the aft, a single docking tube linking to one of the airlocks near the Jacob Keyes' bridge. Hope and I slipped into our NeoAvatars, dressed much the same as they always were.

A swirling vortex of blue awaited us at the end of the tunnel, obviously one of Fusou's much vaunted Slipspace portals. Shrugging at Hope, I stepped through, and she followed just a moment after.

We emerged into some kind of tropical forest, surrounded by tall, pink-leaved trees. A single pathway lay before us, a trail of dark paving stones. A quick scan of the immediate area gave no indications of Fusou's presence. Hope gave me a worried glance, which I quickly returned. A sudden sound draw both our attention, as a hauntingly beautiful piece of music began to echo through the trees.

Oh, thank god. For a moment I was worried it was going to be a horror game soundtrack.

Looking around again, I couldn't help but share Hope's sentiment. Despite the vibrant pink trees everywhere, the place looked like the perfect site for an ambush. Maybe that was just several months of guerilla warfare speaking, though.

Drops of rain began to fall from above - subtle encouragement for us to get moving, or just part of the atmosphere? I doubted I knew the Commander well enough to guess.

With nothing else to go on, and the Slipspace portal since closed behind us, we made our way down the only available path on a meandering stroll through the cherry grove.

Something something something, gotta catch 'em all.

Shut up, Hope.

The path eventually led to a crossroads on the shore of a lake, almost mirror smooth. To the left and right, the paths curved away, following the waterline, and before us, towards the source of the music, was an arching bridge of dark red wood, stretching out towards a distant island.

The choice seemed pretty obvious, and although the temptation to perform a minor act of trolling and go for a long walk around the lake was immense, reason won out. Hope and I crossed under the big gate that looked like a pi symbol and made our way over the arching bridge, coming down and passing another big red gate onto a largely flat grassy island. On the far edge of the small island, a small rise held the island's only tree, a huge pink cherry bloom thing that curved over the water and back onto the land, its huge canopy providing some shelter from the soft rain above.

The other place sheltered from the rain was a small gazebo, and the source of the beautiful melodies. Fusou sat on a small stool, a cello almost as tall as her resting against her lap. Her music tapered away, and she set down the cello's bow, and then the cello itself, on the table beside her.

"I'm glad you both came, Faith, Hope, and I hope you didn't mind my showing off a bit."

We shared a glance before shrugging as one. "No worries. Showing off is the best way of greeting people in such a way that you can demonstrate newly acquired skills or talents without having to shove it down another person's throat." I paused for a second, and beside me, Hope nodded her agreement. "Nice cello, by the way."

"Thank you, I haven't learned to make one myself yet but I did manage to find this one at an auction house in Germany," she replied, smiling warmly. "But showing off isn't why I invited either of you here. The first thing I wanted to do is congratulate you both on how well you're doing against the Hegemony."

Immediately, I felt a pang of regret.

"War is truly hell, but you both have done well to keep the bloodshed to a bare minimum, which is even more impressive given that most of those fighting are actual people. It speaks well of both you and your allies."

I looked away, eyes boring into the ground. "Yeah, well… we haven't really been doing much. Most of the work's been done by the Jaduk Nurr and… well, they're not perfect. Not a lot of people have died, but I reckon getting tazed and shitting uncontrollably into your hardsuit has to be pretty uncomfortable. And the people who have died…"

They didn't die. They were executed. Dragged into the street, stripped naked and stabbed through the eyes.

I couldn't bring myself to say it. Beside me, Hope seemed entirely elsewhere, totally lost in thought. It was easy enough to guess what she was thinking about.

Fusou sighed quietly, shook her head, stood up, stepped forward, and poked me in the forehead. "You're being stupid, Faith."

I blinked, caught out by the sudden outburst. "W-what do you mean?"

Fusou's face twisted into a sad smile, and she held my gaze for a long moment before turning away. She made a gesture with one hand and another hole in reality formed just outside the gazebo. "Come with me. I would like to show you both something."

Without waiting for my response, she turned and stepped through the portal, vanishing in a small flash of light. I nudged Hope, drawing her attention back to reality, and stepped through the portal, Hope just a half-second behind.

We emerged into a vast field of grass and wildflowers, a largely clear blue sky hanging above, a mere handful of clouds drifting lazily through the air. Just a few metres in front of us, a wall of black stone, seven feet high, stretched out into the distance, from horizon to horizon.

Taking a closer look at the wall, I realized that the etchings upon its surface were not drawings, as I had initially thought, but… names?

"F-Fusou," I said, voice catching. "What is this?"

Not turning to face me, Fusou stepped forward, placing a hand on the wall, one finger tracing an etched name.

"The Gravemind once called itself a 'Monument to all of your sins', when speaking to the Master Chief in the canon storyline. I never encountered the Gravemind personally, but I suspect it would have found great amusement in what I've done, for this wall is a monument to all of my sins."

No…

"Every single being that I believe myself to be personally culpable for killing has had their name engraved upon this wall. From the lowliest of the Unggoy to the High Prophets of Truth, Regret, and Mercy, to the UNSC sailors and marines who died due to my overconfidence. All one hundred and seven million, four hundred and twenty one thousand, and ninety-eight of them are listed here…" She trailed off.

One hundred and seven million? That's… that's insane. That's impossible. H-how could someone like her-

She suddenly turned, tears rolling down her cheeks. "We wield a tremendous amount of power, Faith, and with it we can do amazing things, and bring about changes never before imagined. But there will always be consequences to the changes we make, and sometimes we must chose the lesser of two evils. For the question you need to ask youself in many cases isn't 'who are you to take their lives', but 'who are you to let them live'? If evil is left unchecked, it will always continue, and sometimes the choices we're presented with in order to stop evil are no choices at all."

For the longest moment, I couldn't bring myself to speak. Eventually, I pushed aside the misery. "One hundred and seven million… how? How… how did they die? How do you… how do you live with yourself?"

Unwanted memories leapt to the forefront of my mind, and I couldn't help but blurt out, "I-I couldn't kill one man pointing a gun at my head…"

Eager to steer the conversation away from that particular topic, I - rather stupidly, in hindsight, - turned it back to Fusou. "So many dead… how?"

Fusou gave a bitter, ugly laugh.

"All that is necessary for evil to triumph is for good men to do nothing, Faith. I arrived on the planet of Reach exactly 24 hours before the Covenant attacked. At that time, Reach had population of just over nine billion people Faith, and I decided it would be harder to live with myself, provided I even survived, if I had just stood by and watched them die then if I had fought and killed those who were attacking the UNSC. In the Siege of Reach I killed more than fifteen million sentient beings, and to my shame more than several thousand of them were the people I was trying protect who suffered because I thought I knew better.

"I killed another nine million in the next battle, where the UNSC and the beginnings of the Covenant Separatists ambushed a pair of fleets at a rally point. Then I killed another twenty-six million in the battle that took place an hour later when nearly the entire Covenant armada showed up, at which point I truly screwed the pooch. I underestimated the hatred and fear that the Prophets had and failed to stop them from escaping that ambush with the station of High Charity."

Fusou swallowed and shook her head.

"High Charity was never intended to be a combat platform, but it still carried enough plasma weaponry to scour a planet clean of life. So when that station appeared above the planet of Sanghelios and prepared to bombard the cities below, inevitably killing billions, I made a snap decision. I could not let such an event come to pass and so I jumped the only slipspace capable probe I had in-system to High Charity's reactor chamber where the drone impacted and exploded, setting off a chain reaction that destroyed the station."

She fell silent for a long moment, averting her eyes to the ground before continuing.

"My impromptu attack killed the Prophets and more or less ended the war, but the cost of killing the prophets and saving Sanghelios was that I took responsibility for murdering the fifty-four million civilians that lived aboard that station and had never had a chance to evacuate… After reporting what had happened to my allies, I retreated here, to the Onyx Dyson sphere and spent years under time acceleration, almost completely alone so that I could come to terms with what I had done, Faith. And that says nothing about the hundreds I assassinated or straight up murdered in the aftermath of the war just to keep the peace."

Fusou sighed again, much more heavily this time as she said, "I neither can, nor will, tell you how to live your life, Faith, and yours either, Hope. I can only tell you that if you wish to help others, there will inevitably be those who fight against you to harm whatever cause you believe in or the people you have chosen to help. So let me tell you this: 'The fool I kill today won't harm anyone tomorrow'."

"I guess…"

But as I thought on it, I realized something else. I gestured at the beautiful environments around us. "But… we're hanging around and playing God… who are we, to do that? To, to, to force what we want on everyone else? What if that's just it, Fusou?"

I choked back a sob. "What if we're the fools?"

Fusou's gave another sad smile as she reached out and gently cupped my chin and tilted my head up till our eyes met as she quietly said, "Then I guess we'll just have to play that part Faith."

She let go over my chin and stepped back as she again spoke, her voice still soft and gentle, that almost musical lilt somehow more pronounced for the quietness of her tone. "Faith...I've already said that I neither can nor will tell you how to live your life. All I can tell you is that we have power and it isn't that power that defines us, it's what we do with it. That may mean playing god from some perspectives, but if you can make life better for others, if you can help people find happiness, if you can find happiness yourself, isn't that reason enough to act?" asked Fusou, she didn't stop and give me a chance to answer though, instead the red-eyed commander continued on.

"I created Lily, a living, thinking being, and that was certainly playing god on my part, but I don't regret it. I regret that I made mistakes when I played god during her creation, but I don't regret playing god in the first place. For I love my daughter with all of my heart and if playing god was necessary to bring her into my life, then so be it." She stated softly, a hint of steel filling the last sentence as she stopped for a moment before giving a kind smile.

"Abraham Lincoln said 'Nearly all men can stand adversity, but if you want to test a man's character, give him power'. Going by that statement, I think that you've admirably demonstrated the integrity of your character Faith, just be careful and kind and I think you'll find little to worry about."
 
why does every one like to angst over the whole killing thing
 
Well, most of these arguments and discussions about "playing god" and angsting about using your tremendous power to fight a war are so old and cliched that Fate should have already heard and thought about them a thousand times. Tell me, have you never before read a story about the necessity to act and commit the lesser evil? Did you really need Fusou to tell you this? Haven't you watched the relevant Dr Who, Stargate or literally any of the other thousandths of other series where this has been discussed at length a thousand times?

Never read a Harry Potter fic? I think over seventy % of them discuss the topic.

With Fusou it was... kind of Okay? She rushed the whole thing, if she had taken a little more time, restrained the rebellion or made them act slower, she could have expanded and become powerful enough to stop the High Charity without destroying it. It wasn't her fault, because she was inexperienced, but she took her sabbatical to become better at this stuff, her angsting had the purpose of making her become better in such situations in the future.
 
The majority of the commanders involved have wiped out armies casually. Alien or not. It does drag on a bit imo.
 
Yes, there's a difference, but having read it, then having lived it you would think she would then think of it instead of having to be told it. It would for example have been different if she had thought of it by herself, then commented on how that's different when you're not seeing it on TV. That a Spacebattler needs to be told is what is strange.

Basically the scene feels scripted.
 
The only thing I can derive from this is that for whatever reason, every single military in the universe decided that Mass Effect weapons were more powerful, more versatile, more cost effective, or whatever, than any other alternative

My take on this is also worthy of the term nightmare fuel.

What if Eezo were an artificial substance that emits a low-grade indoctrination effect that makes people really WANT mass accelerator weapons?
 
So basically we have leviathan indoctrination, reaper indoctrination and now eezo indoctrination?
 
So basically we have leviathan indoctrination, reaper indoctrination and now eezo indoctrination?

The Reapers steer civilizations down specific technology trees to make them easier to cull when the time comes. This is accomplished at least partially by leaving samples of advanced Eezo tech behind after each culling. Advanced enough to outperform a race's existing tech but simultaneously REALLY easy ro reverse engineer.

But that does not explain why, KNOWING what the weaknesses of Eezo tech are, no one seems to spend much effort on technology that exploits those weaknesses. There must be something more at work, to explain why EVERYONE uses the same offensive and defensive tech, even to the point of abandoning existing tech that can no-sell it.

If Eezo produces a very subtle Indoctirnation effect, that would explain ALL of it. It would have to be very low grade, since high intensity Indoctrination produces lobotomized drones. But if you've ever wondered how brain damaged someone would have to be to abandon laser small arms in favor of mass effect weapons DESPITE the fact that those lasers will ignore enemy defenses -- well, now you know. :o
 
There must be something more at work, to explain why EVERYONE uses the same offensive and defensive tech, even to the point of abandoning existing tech that can no-sell it.
The something is called bad writing and shoddy worldbuilding, both of these have long since transcended their former status as mere Doylist explanations to become fundamental principles of the Mass Effect universe's physics.
 
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It's also possible that even though the flaws of eezo based technologies are well known past of the reason the Cycle is about 50 thousand years long is because it takes about that time for an intergalactic society to catch up to the massive tech boost offered by eezo based reverse engineered technological examples to get to the point they have the means to exploit those flaws.

Knowing lasers go straight through eezo shields doesn't help when there's no way to apply those lasers in a battle impacting manner.
 
It's also possible that even though the flaws of eezo based technologies are well known past of the reason the Cycle is about 50 thousand years long is because it takes about that time for an intergalactic society to catch up to the massive tech boost offered by eezo based reverse engineered technological examples to get to the point they have the means to exploit those flaws.

Knowing lasers go straight through eezo shields doesn't help when there's no way to apply those lasers in a battle impacting manner.
The problem is that Earth right now is only about seventy odd years before Eezo is discovered, and we have lasers that are usable in an individual battlefield. They're prototypes, but we still have a few. We have what is effectively an invisibility shroud. We have things like the Naval Rail gun. We have Tesla Coils that can be weaponised. And what Mass Effect does is ignore them, replacing decades of weapons R&D with fucking sand guns. If it wasn't for kinetic barriers, I'd give fairly decent odds for a modern military to take down a Mass Effect military, if simply because of the flexibility things like missiles or artillery provide.
 
If it wasn't for kinetic barriers, I'd give fairly decent odds for a modern military to take down a Mass Effect military, if simply because of the flexibility things like missiles or artillery provide.
I believe copious amounts of fire also goes through the barriers, yeah? So napalm and thermobarics (of which we use quite a lot) would do 'em in. Plus, arty would likely drop 'em, as they can only take so much punishment from the fairly weak sand guns.

Bomb pumped lasers would make short work of any spacecraft, and we've had those since what, the 60s? Sure, you don't want to use 'em too close to the planet, but it's not like you can't just intercept the enemy at the giant single point of failure- I mean, the gate.

Plus, lasers are fabulous for, y'know, NOT sending c-fractional projectiles careering about your nearby star systems for the next forever years, smashing things you wanted to keep, years or decades after the battle is over.
 
I always did wonder why in Fanfics the Geth were the only ones with flamethrowers. Most of my knowledge comes from fanfiction.
 
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