Tisaku
Head Chief Thinkomancer
Coil's... her
- Status
Banjofrog
Amphibian Folk Star
Oops, Coil's was meant to be strikethorugh, something in the bbcode messed up. Thanks, fixed.
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Ttw1
Suffering at NNPTC without discord
- Location
- threads/ex-machina-worm-tinker-au.29497/
Yah boiiiiiiiiii!!!!!!!!!!!!!!1!!!!!!
NomDeRNG
This Title Gives Me +3 Dorkitude
- Location
- Seattle
Frankly I'm not sure if I can keep reading this story. It was all fun and games until real world politics started normalizing white supremacy and hate crimes went through the roof here in the US (over 1000 reported just in the first month after the election). Siting here, watching swastikas get spray-painted around my neighborhood, watching white supremacy get re-branded, normalized and sold to the masses as "alt-right," watching their leaders get cabinet positions of the president elect, I'm not sure I can keep reading a story that humanizes neonazis, makes them the most sympathetic characters, and has Taylor casually befriending and helping out as if such things didn't directly impact peoples' lives. Especially when, in Worm, there's such a focus in the story and in Taylor's mind on how the gangs have been destroying the city and making it hell for everyday civilians. I've read this far, when it seemed just a what-if story so far removed from our reality. But the way we talk, the things we support, and the things we read and write have a greater impact on the world around us than we can immediately see, regardless of our intentions.
Oh for fuck's sake.
- Location
- Melbourne, Australia
Violation of rules 3 and 4: Be civil, don't be disruptive.
Your fucking pathetic. Do you need a trigger warning. Maybe a safe space with crayons and a therapy puppy.
If you've got a problem with all these hate crimes look up how many of them have been faked. If you want to see a true racist movement look at BLM, there roots and goals. If you cannot read a story set in another world in a fantasy setting without feeling the overwhelming desire to make politically motivated virtue signaling then you'r better off somewhere else.
If this I how your going to be then quietly fuck off and keep your misinformed SJW retarded opinion to yourself.
Stop: Stop
Generic_Generica
Notice me Senpai~
- Location
- Right behind you
kdakmmt
Verified troll
- Location
- alaska
Wow that was like watching Greg getting smacked down by Tin-mother.
Lisa is running with the idiot ball and I can't wait to see what happens. In addition to the cameras and mic I was thinking of a cricket chirp to go off at random times with occasional shocks
Lisa is running with the idiot ball and I can't wait to see what happens. In addition to the cameras and mic I was thinking of a cricket chirp to go off at random times with occasional shocks
Gloating about people getting infracted is both in poor taste and against the rules. Perhaps in poor taste as much as calling politicians you don't like "white supremacists," which was pretty blatant flamebait.
Banjofrog
Amphibian Folk Star
Oh boy, I'm going to have to address this aren't I?
I do not condone hate crimes, I do not condone racism, I do not approve of the pressing down of another race, sex, orientation, religion or any other category people seem so eager to put each other into.
This story began before the current political climate in the United States made itself fully known, and I don't plan on ending it because of the opinions of one side or the other of the political spectrum.
There are places to have debates and discussions like this, and if you can sit down and discuss them like a reasonable adult instead of insulting the other side's opinion and intelligence, more power to you, I encourage you to find a group of friends (or strangers) willing to discuss it with you.
But don't do it here. This is an internet thread about a piece of fanfiction that one person wrote in their free time to explore characters that have been overlooked in other stories, that's it. This is not a platform for you to espouse your political agenda, especially not when done with overtones of malice instead of the expectation of a reasonable discussion.
I invite conversation, I invite open-mindedness, and analysis, and discussion. What I will not invite is open hostility to any other member of this community, period.
I do not condone hate crimes, I do not condone racism, I do not approve of the pressing down of another race, sex, orientation, religion or any other category people seem so eager to put each other into.
This story began before the current political climate in the United States made itself fully known, and I don't plan on ending it because of the opinions of one side or the other of the political spectrum.
There are places to have debates and discussions like this, and if you can sit down and discuss them like a reasonable adult instead of insulting the other side's opinion and intelligence, more power to you, I encourage you to find a group of friends (or strangers) willing to discuss it with you.
But don't do it here. This is an internet thread about a piece of fanfiction that one person wrote in their free time to explore characters that have been overlooked in other stories, that's it. This is not a platform for you to espouse your political agenda, especially not when done with overtones of malice instead of the expectation of a reasonable discussion.
I invite conversation, I invite open-mindedness, and analysis, and discussion. What I will not invite is open hostility to any other member of this community, period.
- Location
- Tromso, Norway.
No, you really don't. Anyone reasonable either knows that you don't approve of what's being done in your story, or don't care.
Stop: I'm sorry I must have stuttered
Generic_Generica
Notice me Senpai~
- Location
- Right behind you
i'm sorry i must have stuttered
@kdakmmt don't gloat about people getting infracted. It really adds nothing to the discussion, at all. Don't do it again, only warning.
@Pax_Empyrean, my earlier modpost wasn't an invitation to go on. It really was not.
Look, everyone else? Do as @Banjofrog, the OP of the thread requested. There're times and places for this sort of thing, but if people're incapable of discussing this like adults without blatant hostility then please, kindly take things elsewhere, because the rules are still in force.
Do not make me come back into this thread. Hopefully this is the last time I have to do this sort of thing.
@kdakmmt don't gloat about people getting infracted. It really adds nothing to the discussion, at all. Don't do it again, only warning.
@Pax_Empyrean, my earlier modpost wasn't an invitation to go on. It really was not.
Look, everyone else? Do as @Banjofrog, the OP of the thread requested. There're times and places for this sort of thing, but if people're incapable of discussing this like adults without blatant hostility then please, kindly take things elsewhere, because the rules are still in force.
Do not make me come back into this thread. Hopefully this is the last time I have to do this sort of thing.
- Location
- Canada
Please don't sass the mods. For their wroth is terrible indeed.
RexHeller
Title Incoming. Please Hold.
- Location
- Somewhere else.
Wroth? Really?
- Location
- Australia
- Pronouns
- She/Her
Fundamentally this story has a problem, and that problem is nazis. I read quite a way into it, and despite some lip service to the idea the story didn't seem to potray its protagonist's relationship with the Empire-88 as all that bad a thing.
Now I'm not saying that you or your readers are inherently bad. If you want to write something like this, though, you don't get a presumption of innocence regarding the themes of your work. Because, at the end of the day, if a white supremacist wrote a worm fanfic or was looking for one to read it'd look an awful lot like this one.
Now I'm not saying that you or your readers are inherently bad. If you want to write something like this, though, you don't get a presumption of innocence regarding the themes of your work. Because, at the end of the day, if a white supremacist wrote a worm fanfic or was looking for one to read it'd look an awful lot like this one.
Spectrum
Tell me a secret~
- Location
- Behind you~
Okay, if that's the premise you got out of it, but what's the message? "It's okay to be a lesbian Nazi, we don't judge."
It would look an awful lot like this one if this one had Nazis beating up innocent members of minority groups, Nazis preaching their ideals, the story demonstrating the inferiority of non-white races or showing how great things are if you're a Nazi, and so on.
These things are missing. If a white supremacist were writing this, it would look a lot different. Instead, it's about characters in the E88 acting like pretty normal people engaged in activities that don't actually involve their nominal ideology. It's not even like a sales pitch for the Nazis with all the bad shit swept under the rug, because things do not go well for these people. A bunch of them are dead, their organization is shattered, they've all had their identities exposed and everybody still hates them.
All it does is show them to be people instead of cardboard cutouts. That's not going too far, and a white supremacist certainly wouldn't stop there. Saying that somebody doesn't get a presumption of innocence because they dared to add a little depth to these characters is completely unfair. They aren't pushing the ideology at all.
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Liberty Prime
"Lurking is the sovereign right of every member!"
- Location
- United Kingdom
That's because for the protagonist, it isn't a bad thing. She finally has friends and people who honestly care for her, why would that be a bad thing from Taylor's perspective?
- Location
- America
Tekomandor, while I agree Nazi are a bad thing I would like to provide my insight on this fic. At the moment the only relationship is between Rune, and Taylor. One of which is part of a white supremacist family, and not really has the same ideals. It is true that Viktor, and Olathe are racists and she is staying with them. However that doesn't mean that aren't good people in some rights. Also I would like to point out being a white supremacist doesn't make a person a Nazi. One of the things that the Nazi viewed as pure was the germanic tribes. That means me with a celtic descent would have been treated no better then someone of non-germanic decent.
Now to your final point I don't see themes of white supremacist. I see characters, and an organization of them now in shambles. A theme of white supremacist would be hammering on those who's skin color is different. I don't see any mention of them harping another's race. If you can point of the themes of racism then might change my mind about this story.
Banjo,
I doubt my words will count for much, but for what it's worth, I am enjoying your story. I have been kept interested partially by the portrayal of people whose viewpoints I disagree with as actual humans rather than the cardboard cut-outs I see puppetted around so much these days. I've continually looked forward to seeing Taylor's interactions with them. It seems as if you are heading in the direction of her helping (at least a few of) them towards less supremacist viewpoints, even if it's purely by association with someone who doesn't share their views.
In light of the current US political climate, I feel it's more important than ever to realize that white supremacists aren't mustache-twirling villains, but people with their own experiences and stories that have led them to where they are today. Some will never change their ideologies, but demonizing and refusing to associate with them only drives them further into their own echo chambers.
So long as you continue to enjoy writing Ex Machina, I hope you will continue to write and post it.
Sometimes the premise is the message.
Not reading it? That sounds like a tragically missed opportunity to call somebody a racist.
Suggesting that racists might not be 100% horrible in every way at all times? Totally not okay.
You can't humanize racists, because they're obviously subhuman. Everybody knows that, unless you're a racist too. Complexity is for people.
"If you're friends with the Nazis, you're gonna have a bad time."
Still not seeing a problem here.
- Location
- Pittsburgh
Sooo this is a bit of a touchy topic obviously, but since I have enjoyed this story quite immensely, at this juncture I feel somewhat obligated to defend it a bit. It is true that the premise of this story involves the protagonist working with a neo-Nazi organization, and it is similarly true that the organization is a very bad thing and that certainly shouldn't be ignored. However, from my perspective, just because this work is not focussing on the racism and hate crime part of the E88, that does not mean it is in any way glorifying or condoning it's actions. Actual Nazis in World War 2 are a lot of times also family men, and care for their families genuinely. So I do not think this work is whitewashing racists and Nazi by portraying how they behave towards people they care for instead of those they target.
Additionally, it has been established from the start that Taylor is an immensely biased observer, she is viewing these gangmembers and racists through the lens of one who has been bullied and ignored by most, then finally finding a group that would not only accept her, but value her. From Taylor's perspective obviously she would be inclined to think kindly towards those people, even if she does not agree with their ideology, which she has repeatedly stated that she does not. I do not think that simply because the unreliable narrator is friends towards neo-Nazis, that that would necessarily mean the story is glorifying or whitewashing racists or Nazis
Additionally, it has been established from the start that Taylor is an immensely biased observer, she is viewing these gangmembers and racists through the lens of one who has been bullied and ignored by most, then finally finding a group that would not only accept her, but value her. From Taylor's perspective obviously she would be inclined to think kindly towards those people, even if she does not agree with their ideology, which she has repeatedly stated that she does not. I do not think that simply because the unreliable narrator is friends towards neo-Nazis, that that would necessarily mean the story is glorifying or whitewashing racists or Nazis
- Status