- Location
- Denmark
- Pronouns
- She/Her
The vote will remain open a few hours more.
Epitaph - A Civilization Quest
- Thread starter Chehrazad
- Start date
- Original Alt. History
Random Member
Gardener of Human Happiness
- Location
- Behind You
People, we have something good going on with our trade network. Why cease expanding this in favor of *shudders* palace economics?
- Location
- Southern Virginia
What makes the best story? Arriving as the cavalry to save the day at the last minute. Also if the palace wins anyway they're gonna be pissed at Eskeragal and have the means and motive to pursue punishing us, whereas a usurper will be under more pressure to forgive us opposing him so he can consolidate his rule against the periphery.
[X] ...Declared for the palace
-[X] ...Break the siege
[X] ...Trade could not be refused
[X] The cult of the axe
[X] ...Declared for the palace
-[X] ...Break the siege
[X] ...Trade could not be refused
[X] The cult of the axe
- Location
- Austria
D I R E C T R U L E F R O M E S K E R A G A L
And I am not sure whether it's that or just more efficient centralized bureaucracy.
Random Member
Gardener of Human Happiness
- Location
- Behind You
Are we doing Kaiserreich memes now? Very well.
EVERY MAN A MERCHANT PRINCE, BUT NO ONE WEARS A CROWN!
Also, bureaucracy does nothing but hinder our captains of trade, who have made the city as rich as it is.
- Location
- I think somewhere. I might be nowhere though
I am in favor of not going palace economics. I just want to see what a theocratic state would look like from a mechanical perspective, hence why I voted for the merger.
- Location
- United States
[X] ...Inequality must be quashed
[X] ...Declared for the palace
-[X] ...Break the siege
[X] The rites of nature
[X] ...Declared for the palace
-[X] ...Break the siege
[X] The rites of nature
- Location
- Denmark
- Pronouns
- She/Her
Aaaand, let's close the vote. The winner is declared for the palace, break the siege, the cult of the axe and the priesthood must be secured.
Holy shit the madmen actually did it!
As much as this baited SV's love for bureaucracy I didn't think it would actually win, and I suggested it.
PREPARE FOR FULL FLATBREAD LICENSING
WITNESS THE POWER OF THIS FULLY TAXED AND OPERATIONAL TEMPLE COMPLEX
- Location
- I think somewhere. I might be nowhere though
Nay, I vote against it!
- Location
- Denmark
- Pronouns
- She/Her
And just before the update is out tomorrow, I'll make the roll:
EDIT: lmao, literally the same result as last time. eskerag dice luck continues to be ridiculous
EDIT: lmao, literally the same result as last time. eskerag dice luck continues to be ridiculous
Last edited:
If that coup attempt begins a period of instability in Hoxman Empire, I wonder if our success here could make us someone every prospective ruler that wants to claim or to keep the throne must ally with. Would lead to a quick ascension, as everyone would be giving us privileges to make us fight on their side.
Sixth Update: End of War
- Location
- Denmark
- Pronouns
- She/Her
Surprise motherfuckers, this quest isn't dead. REGULAR WEEKLY UPDATES BITCHES.
The Hoxman Civil War was a bloody affair. While the host of Astnam was large and experienced from beating barbarians on the frontier and suppressing revolts in the newly conquered eastern territories, Hoxma was a rich and fortified city and it had just been harvest season. Furthermore, the river was thoroughly under the command of Eskeragal and Astnam's few attempts to contest that control by building boats had ended in miserable failures against the far more experienced Eskerag sailors. As a result, Eskeragal was able to supply the besieged with plenty of food and ferry soldiers up and down the river as it wished. It had been Astnam's hope that he was able to break the city quickly, but that quickly turned out to be impossible.
Desiring to force an engagement, Astnam had allegedly given orders to find a way to breach the walls. A primitive battering ram was constructed by his army under his direction, a true innovation that would later turn out to transform warfare in the Greatwater Valley permanently. However, at the last moment, the Eskerag army had arrived and forced Astnam to engage them. While Astnam's host were slightly numerically superior and far more experienced, the appearance of the Eskerag army had caused one of the palatial ministers to sally forth with the loyal remnants of the Hoxman army in the city. As a result of the combined attack, Astnam's host was made to rout and he was forced to flee. He would return to plague the empire as a bandit leader several times in the coming decade but was eventually slain with Eskerag aid.
As a result of the battle, Eskerag now stood in an increasingly more influential position. The army of Hoxma was gutted, the stability of the empire was increasingly precarious, the emperor was a child and the empire looked to be primed for revolt at any moment. When the Eskerag army entered the city, it was hailed as liberators and when it returned many years later with the head of Astnam on a spike, it was hailed as saviours. At the coronation of the new emperor, the Eskerag chieftain was given the honour of placing the crown on his head. As a reward for the lifting of the siege and the loyalty of Eskeragal, it was given:
[ ] A Father's Crown: It had long been the case that the Hoxman palace saw Eskeragal as its greatest ally on the coast, and in the complicated network of settlements that dotted the valley, such loyalty had its rewards. However, it would be impossible to discuss loyalty without power, and the matter of fact was that Hoxma and Eskeragal were simply operating on different scales of power. Therefore, the palace offered to Eskeragal the exalted role of becoming like a son to their Hoxman father, governing the coastal province of Ungir in the emperor's name, raising the still-nascent city-state to a place of first among equals on the coast. (+1 Sedentism, vastly accelerates the cultural unification of the People under Eskeragal)
[ ] A Brother's Embrace: The elected chieftains of Eskeragal and the inherited emperors of Hoxma had long married into each other's families, and Eskeragal's loyalty had so far been unquestionable. Therefore, Hoxma would formally embrace Eskerag chiefs as brothers and raise them to a status similar to their own on the growing international stage. Admittedly, this would still be a subordinate position, simply due to the differences in power and Eskeragal would not gain much from it directly, but would become capable of negotiating on an at least theoretically equal basis with other powers along the ocean by invoking their brotherhood with the Hoxman palace. (+1 Urbanization, makes other powers treat Eskeragal seriously)
With the increasing growth of Eskeragal, new cultures were constantly introduced to it, and with new cultures came the first and foremost thing any culture cares about; entertainment. The growth of Eskeragal had brought new species of animals with it, and one of those which had been introduced first to Hoxma and from Hoxma to Eskeragal was the peacock. Dazzling and beautiful, the Eskerag took to loving the new bird easily. While aggressive and willing to attack at small provocation, the beautiful train of the bird combined with its regal appearance swiftly made it a favourite at the palatial court and outside it, whether that was in priestly temples or at the streets where children could be seen provoking and following them.
Depictions of the peacock quickly became a favourite subject of Eskerag art. The pillars before the holiest of holies in the high temple of the Storm King's marriage to the Wild Lady depicted peacocks carved in stone with sapphires sat in their trains. Similarly, the gold plates used by the chieftain and his family in the palace depicted the plumes of peacocks. But artistry was not the subject in which peacocks were popular, they became a popular target of the hunt as well. Authority in Eskeragal was implicitly and explicitly tied to hunting, whether one was the chieftain or lesser onenamekene or even a priest in the temples, and the beautiful feathers of the peacock's train meant that it was an easily-accessed status symbol and sign of a successful hunt. Even if peacocks weren't the target of a given hunt, rare was the time when the hunters wouldn't return home with peacock feathers anyways simply to show it.
This fervour for peacocks led to a number of developments for which Eskeragal was internationally known, such as the "peacock-hatted Shurrim" mentioned in the chronicles of the River-Children and the feather-plumes used for helmets by Eskerag aristocracy. It was also a problem however, as it had intensified the feuds between onenamekene significantly and undermined the chieftain's authority in favour of the chiefs who could acquire most peacock feathers. While the chieftain's authority remained paramount, the fall in status that came with being outshined by a more dazzling aristocrat could be dangerous to the ability of the chieftain to enforce laws and cajole the onenamekene to follow him. Steadily, however, the peacocks were monopolized by...
[ ] The Palace: Steadily, peacock feathers came to be a mark of palatial service as the chieftains acquired greater and greater hunting grounds. The chieftain was increasingly conceptualized as a hunting king before anything else and the first proper Eskerag crowns were made with this in mind: A diadem in the fashion of the Hoxman emperors, with a great plume of peacock feathers and inlays of sapphire. Such a "hunting king" became defined by his willingness and ability to launch and sponsor grand hunts, his masculinity and virility tied to his mastery of the peacock and increasingly understood as a chief devotee of the Wild Lady, who laid her blessings upon him to confer the power of the hunt.
[ ] The Onenamekene: As a result of hunting ground monopolization and wealth accumulation, the onenamekene came to distinguish themselves with the peacock feather. This reflattened the nascent inequality between the chieftain and the onenamekene and brought about a steady return to the idea that the chieftain was first and foremost simply a first among equals elected by the onenamekene. However, it also created a powerful elite class of warriors and hunters who could present a strong rivalry to the nascent temple-bureaucracy that had steadily grown closer and closer to the chieftain.
[ ] The Priesthood: As the temples were already a powerful and established faction within Eskeragal, it came as no surprise that the peacock primarily became the domain of the priesthood who used it in a great amount of rituals and ceremonies. These varied from the peacock feathers used by various priestly garments to the sacred peacocks of the Wild Lady, but largely signaled a significant increase in the priesthood's power over the settlement, which permitted them to largely begin the sidelining of the power of the onenamekene in favour of their own growing power and importance for admministration.
In an already complicated century, the single issue that sees most addressal in surviving texts is the matter of temple prostitution. The prominence of sacred prostitutes in pre-Hoxman contact Eskeragal remains a contested issue among scholars and even after its existence is clearly attested, the actual importance of the practice is still hotly debated today. What is undoubtable true however, is that by the time of the Hoxman Civil War and after it, a system of sacred prostitution was practiced by most, if not all in Eskeragal. Against the modern expectation, it seems likely that temple prostitution in Eskeragal was mostly the domain of young men rather than women and that during ritual acts, such men dubbed "Temple Peacocks" in certain texts, could take on either a male or female role.
However, while prostitution was present in Eskeragal and likely extensively so, prostitution of a far less sacred character was certainly also to be found in the nascently urbanizing settlement, as is the case with every human cohabitation. It is not for no reason they call it the oldest profession in the world. While the sacred male prostitutes of the temples seem to have served first and foremost to reenact mythic scenes and to participate in ritual action, this could not be further from the reality of prostitutes unaffiliated with the temple, who seem to have been largely women from lower social classes, with the exception of a few educated "retainers" that had some sort of reciprocal relationship with the temples and were often kept as courtesans by chiefs and nobility.
It is in the century following the Hoxman Civil War that the nature of Eskerag prostitution is most attested, having become the focus of a scandal sweeping the streets. A number of temples had introduced new and stricter regulations about purification following menarche, leading to first an accusation and then a plea from a number of prostitutes that banded together that the temples were aiming to drive them out of their business and redirect customers to their own sacred prostitutes instead. From surviving texts, it is evident that the plea was brought before the then-ruling chieftain Askohal II and it can be concluded both from later texts and administrative records that he ruled that…
[ ] The Temples Would be Cowed: It was clear that the priesthood had acted in error. The chieftain ruled in favour of the prostitutes and henceforth, the ability to regulate pricing and purity regulations would be the remit of the chieftain and the palace alone. This drove a rift between the temples and the palace but endeared the palace to the prostitutes and other small craftspeople, whose labour conditions would now be secured by the justice of the palace rather than the often-arbitrary and capricious rulings of the temple. (Creates problem for next phase: Schism of Priest and Palace. Creates advantage for next phase: The King's Labour)
[ ] The Priesthood Would be Obeyed: The priesthood was in the right. While the prostitutes could certainly market themselves as they wished, the will of the priesthood was ultimately superior to that of prostitutes. In addition, the power of the chieftain was built on the administration of the temples and to seek to cow them would surely lead to doom. As a result, the priesthood's right to control purification rituals as they saw fit was enshrined and in addition, the temples acquired general jurisdiction and authority over both the prostitutes and several minor crafts as their authority swelled and the chieftain's own with it. (Creates problem for next phase: Delegated Rule. Creates advantage for next phase: Marriage of Priest and Palace)
[ ] A Settlement Would be Attempted: This is explicitly a write-in option to attempt fostering a compromise and will require a roll and a write-up with about as much detail as the two other options.
The winner is declared for the palace, break the siege, the cult of the axe and the priesthood must be secured.
The Hoxman Civil War was a bloody affair. While the host of Astnam was large and experienced from beating barbarians on the frontier and suppressing revolts in the newly conquered eastern territories, Hoxma was a rich and fortified city and it had just been harvest season. Furthermore, the river was thoroughly under the command of Eskeragal and Astnam's few attempts to contest that control by building boats had ended in miserable failures against the far more experienced Eskerag sailors. As a result, Eskeragal was able to supply the besieged with plenty of food and ferry soldiers up and down the river as it wished. It had been Astnam's hope that he was able to break the city quickly, but that quickly turned out to be impossible.
Desiring to force an engagement, Astnam had allegedly given orders to find a way to breach the walls. A primitive battering ram was constructed by his army under his direction, a true innovation that would later turn out to transform warfare in the Greatwater Valley permanently. However, at the last moment, the Eskerag army had arrived and forced Astnam to engage them. While Astnam's host were slightly numerically superior and far more experienced, the appearance of the Eskerag army had caused one of the palatial ministers to sally forth with the loyal remnants of the Hoxman army in the city. As a result of the combined attack, Astnam's host was made to rout and he was forced to flee. He would return to plague the empire as a bandit leader several times in the coming decade but was eventually slain with Eskerag aid.
As a result of the battle, Eskerag now stood in an increasingly more influential position. The army of Hoxma was gutted, the stability of the empire was increasingly precarious, the emperor was a child and the empire looked to be primed for revolt at any moment. When the Eskerag army entered the city, it was hailed as liberators and when it returned many years later with the head of Astnam on a spike, it was hailed as saviours. At the coronation of the new emperor, the Eskerag chieftain was given the honour of placing the crown on his head. As a reward for the lifting of the siege and the loyalty of Eskeragal, it was given:
[ ] A Father's Crown: It had long been the case that the Hoxman palace saw Eskeragal as its greatest ally on the coast, and in the complicated network of settlements that dotted the valley, such loyalty had its rewards. However, it would be impossible to discuss loyalty without power, and the matter of fact was that Hoxma and Eskeragal were simply operating on different scales of power. Therefore, the palace offered to Eskeragal the exalted role of becoming like a son to their Hoxman father, governing the coastal province of Ungir in the emperor's name, raising the still-nascent city-state to a place of first among equals on the coast. (+1 Sedentism, vastly accelerates the cultural unification of the People under Eskeragal)
[ ] A Brother's Embrace: The elected chieftains of Eskeragal and the inherited emperors of Hoxma had long married into each other's families, and Eskeragal's loyalty had so far been unquestionable. Therefore, Hoxma would formally embrace Eskerag chiefs as brothers and raise them to a status similar to their own on the growing international stage. Admittedly, this would still be a subordinate position, simply due to the differences in power and Eskeragal would not gain much from it directly, but would become capable of negotiating on an at least theoretically equal basis with other powers along the ocean by invoking their brotherhood with the Hoxman palace. (+1 Urbanization, makes other powers treat Eskeragal seriously)
With the increasing growth of Eskeragal, new cultures were constantly introduced to it, and with new cultures came the first and foremost thing any culture cares about; entertainment. The growth of Eskeragal had brought new species of animals with it, and one of those which had been introduced first to Hoxma and from Hoxma to Eskeragal was the peacock. Dazzling and beautiful, the Eskerag took to loving the new bird easily. While aggressive and willing to attack at small provocation, the beautiful train of the bird combined with its regal appearance swiftly made it a favourite at the palatial court and outside it, whether that was in priestly temples or at the streets where children could be seen provoking and following them.
Depictions of the peacock quickly became a favourite subject of Eskerag art. The pillars before the holiest of holies in the high temple of the Storm King's marriage to the Wild Lady depicted peacocks carved in stone with sapphires sat in their trains. Similarly, the gold plates used by the chieftain and his family in the palace depicted the plumes of peacocks. But artistry was not the subject in which peacocks were popular, they became a popular target of the hunt as well. Authority in Eskeragal was implicitly and explicitly tied to hunting, whether one was the chieftain or lesser onenamekene or even a priest in the temples, and the beautiful feathers of the peacock's train meant that it was an easily-accessed status symbol and sign of a successful hunt. Even if peacocks weren't the target of a given hunt, rare was the time when the hunters wouldn't return home with peacock feathers anyways simply to show it.
This fervour for peacocks led to a number of developments for which Eskeragal was internationally known, such as the "peacock-hatted Shurrim" mentioned in the chronicles of the River-Children and the feather-plumes used for helmets by Eskerag aristocracy. It was also a problem however, as it had intensified the feuds between onenamekene significantly and undermined the chieftain's authority in favour of the chiefs who could acquire most peacock feathers. While the chieftain's authority remained paramount, the fall in status that came with being outshined by a more dazzling aristocrat could be dangerous to the ability of the chieftain to enforce laws and cajole the onenamekene to follow him. Steadily, however, the peacocks were monopolized by...
[ ] The Palace: Steadily, peacock feathers came to be a mark of palatial service as the chieftains acquired greater and greater hunting grounds. The chieftain was increasingly conceptualized as a hunting king before anything else and the first proper Eskerag crowns were made with this in mind: A diadem in the fashion of the Hoxman emperors, with a great plume of peacock feathers and inlays of sapphire. Such a "hunting king" became defined by his willingness and ability to launch and sponsor grand hunts, his masculinity and virility tied to his mastery of the peacock and increasingly understood as a chief devotee of the Wild Lady, who laid her blessings upon him to confer the power of the hunt.
[ ] The Onenamekene: As a result of hunting ground monopolization and wealth accumulation, the onenamekene came to distinguish themselves with the peacock feather. This reflattened the nascent inequality between the chieftain and the onenamekene and brought about a steady return to the idea that the chieftain was first and foremost simply a first among equals elected by the onenamekene. However, it also created a powerful elite class of warriors and hunters who could present a strong rivalry to the nascent temple-bureaucracy that had steadily grown closer and closer to the chieftain.
[ ] The Priesthood: As the temples were already a powerful and established faction within Eskeragal, it came as no surprise that the peacock primarily became the domain of the priesthood who used it in a great amount of rituals and ceremonies. These varied from the peacock feathers used by various priestly garments to the sacred peacocks of the Wild Lady, but largely signaled a significant increase in the priesthood's power over the settlement, which permitted them to largely begin the sidelining of the power of the onenamekene in favour of their own growing power and importance for admministration.
In an already complicated century, the single issue that sees most addressal in surviving texts is the matter of temple prostitution. The prominence of sacred prostitutes in pre-Hoxman contact Eskeragal remains a contested issue among scholars and even after its existence is clearly attested, the actual importance of the practice is still hotly debated today. What is undoubtable true however, is that by the time of the Hoxman Civil War and after it, a system of sacred prostitution was practiced by most, if not all in Eskeragal. Against the modern expectation, it seems likely that temple prostitution in Eskeragal was mostly the domain of young men rather than women and that during ritual acts, such men dubbed "Temple Peacocks" in certain texts, could take on either a male or female role.
However, while prostitution was present in Eskeragal and likely extensively so, prostitution of a far less sacred character was certainly also to be found in the nascently urbanizing settlement, as is the case with every human cohabitation. It is not for no reason they call it the oldest profession in the world. While the sacred male prostitutes of the temples seem to have served first and foremost to reenact mythic scenes and to participate in ritual action, this could not be further from the reality of prostitutes unaffiliated with the temple, who seem to have been largely women from lower social classes, with the exception of a few educated "retainers" that had some sort of reciprocal relationship with the temples and were often kept as courtesans by chiefs and nobility.
It is in the century following the Hoxman Civil War that the nature of Eskerag prostitution is most attested, having become the focus of a scandal sweeping the streets. A number of temples had introduced new and stricter regulations about purification following menarche, leading to first an accusation and then a plea from a number of prostitutes that banded together that the temples were aiming to drive them out of their business and redirect customers to their own sacred prostitutes instead. From surviving texts, it is evident that the plea was brought before the then-ruling chieftain Askohal II and it can be concluded both from later texts and administrative records that he ruled that…
[ ] The Temples Would be Cowed: It was clear that the priesthood had acted in error. The chieftain ruled in favour of the prostitutes and henceforth, the ability to regulate pricing and purity regulations would be the remit of the chieftain and the palace alone. This drove a rift between the temples and the palace but endeared the palace to the prostitutes and other small craftspeople, whose labour conditions would now be secured by the justice of the palace rather than the often-arbitrary and capricious rulings of the temple. (Creates problem for next phase: Schism of Priest and Palace. Creates advantage for next phase: The King's Labour)
[ ] The Priesthood Would be Obeyed: The priesthood was in the right. While the prostitutes could certainly market themselves as they wished, the will of the priesthood was ultimately superior to that of prostitutes. In addition, the power of the chieftain was built on the administration of the temples and to seek to cow them would surely lead to doom. As a result, the priesthood's right to control purification rituals as they saw fit was enshrined and in addition, the temples acquired general jurisdiction and authority over both the prostitutes and several minor crafts as their authority swelled and the chieftain's own with it. (Creates problem for next phase: Delegated Rule. Creates advantage for next phase: Marriage of Priest and Palace)
[ ] A Settlement Would be Attempted: This is explicitly a write-in option to attempt fostering a compromise and will require a roll and a write-up with about as much detail as the two other options.
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Random Member
Gardener of Human Happiness
- Location
- Behind You
[] A Father's Crown
Cultural unity is vital. On the other hand....
[X] A Brother's Embrace
No subordination!
[X] The Onenamekene
[X] The Temples Would be Cowed
Cultural unity is vital. On the other hand....
[X] A Brother's Embrace
No subordination!
[X] The Onenamekene
[X] The Temples Would be Cowed
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- Location
- Denmark
- Pronouns
- She/Her
epic bamboozle
Professor Vesca
Good News Everyone!
[x] A Father's Crown
[X] The Onenamekene
[X] The Temples Would be Cowed:
[X] The Onenamekene
[X] The Temples Would be Cowed:
[X] A Father's Crown
Independence and ability to negotiate with other powers on an equal basis will naturally flow from becoming more powerful, which uniting all People would provide. On the other hand, cultural unity is not something we will get from being acknowledged by Hoxma.
[X] The Onenamekene
[X] The Temples Would be Cowed:
I am honestly not the biggest fan of sidelining temples in favour of the proto-oligarchy of the proto-senate, but perhaps this will allow the bureaucracy to become more of an independent entity, which is always useful for the survival of the state. I'll think about it more later.
Independence and ability to negotiate with other powers on an equal basis will naturally flow from becoming more powerful, which uniting all People would provide. On the other hand, cultural unity is not something we will get from being acknowledged by Hoxma.
[X] The Onenamekene
[X] The Temples Would be Cowed:
I am honestly not the biggest fan of sidelining temples in favour of the proto-oligarchy of the proto-senate, but perhaps this will allow the bureaucracy to become more of an independent entity, which is always useful for the survival of the state. I'll think about it more later.
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- Location
- New York
- Pronouns
- He/Him
[x] A Father's Crown
[X] The Onenamekene
[X] The Temples Would be Cowed:
[X] The Onenamekene
[X] The Temples Would be Cowed:
NeonLights
Formerly Reliable_2IC
- Location
- In shambles
[X] A Brother's Embrace
[x] A Father's Crown
[X] The Priesthood Would be Obeyed
[x] A Father's Crown
[X] The Priesthood Would be Obeyed
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