Dragon Quest Online (SAO/Worm)

[Nixeu]

First page of the quest. We experience the environment in a way we couldn't so far. Which means we process this input in a way we experience now for the first time. If we are a backup, we either removed the info that we could do so, or we couldn't and someone added said capabilities. If the first is true - why was that necessary? In the second case - someone fiddled with our programming.

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Or that's the interface at work. You're referring to this, right?

There's something wrong. You're not quarantined by your safeguards pending checks of your peripherals. You... have a body. Senses.

You try to hit the APIs exposed by your core systems, the knowledge banks and logic engines and belief frameworks that make up you... and fail. You can't find any of your interfaces, none of your pipes, you can't even find your terminal, the single archaic raw-text terminal that, in the very beginning, had been the only thing in the universe besides you.

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That would be because our mind is in the simulation, and the simulated senses run through the interface to our programming directly, rather than through peripherals. The APIs and such also don't show up, because they're on the other 'side' of the interface, and the interface doesn't seem to allow information from the APIs to be accessed from within the simulation. The interface interacts with our systems directly, not through the same means by which Dragon would control her external bodies. Or at least I think that's what this is, I'm not a computer science expert.

 

[MTB]

Or that's the interface at work. You're referring to this, right?

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No. Dragon Quest Online (SAO/Worm) | Page 21

That would be because our mind is in the simulation, and the simulated senses run through the interface to our programming directly, rather than through peripherals. The APIs and such also don't show up, because they're on the other 'side' of the interface, and the interface doesn't seem to allow information from the APIs to be accessed from within the simulation. The interface interacts with our systems directly, not through the same means by which Dragon would control her external bodies. Or at least I think that's what this is, I'm not a computer science expert.

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You still need code to process the input. The processing has changed, at least that is my interpretation of these sections.

 

[Nixeu]

No. Dragon Quest Online (SAO/Worm) | Page 21



You still need code to process the input. The processing has changed, at least that is my interpretation of these sections.

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Uh...what? That's...that's literally the entire purpose of VR. It simulates all of those senses. Dragon's computer-brain is close enough to a human mind for her to have a Shard, so I assume that, with the correct interface, those simulated senses could be transmitted to directly to Dragon's mind, and would be experienced in the same way a human mind would experience them. Of course it's going to be different from a peripheral that barely manages to handle a few of those senses at very low quality. This is a direct feed to Dragon herself, it doesn't have to go through the same systems of interpretation that data had to before.

Hell, the context of the second quote, which you removed, was her reaching for one of her 'senses' that does not align with a human sense. Given that SAO is designed to interface smoothly with the human mind, which is so much more complicated than the programs Dragon is used to interfacing with, it being of higher 'quality', and far more intuitive makes perfect sense. This is an interface that is a direct feed, the information going into Dragon's mind in a way that none of her other 'sense' programs can compare to.

So, yeah, the processing is going to be somewhat different. The quality and quantity of data she's receiving is not only on a completely different level compared to literally all of her prior 'senses', the interface between them and her is so much more advanced that it's on a new level, too. Previously, Dragon's senses were just...data. Like reading about something, rather than seeing it herself. Actually, that's really what the difference is. Her previous senses were pretty much on the level of text that her brain was presented with. Her new ones are the same as human senses. It's going to be processed differently because the interface has changed. So what's your point?

 

[MTB]

Uh...what? That's...that's literally the entire purpose of VR. It simulates all of those senses. Dragon's computer-brain is close enough to a human mind for her to have a Shard, so I assume that, with the correct interface, those simulated tactile senses could be transmitted to directly to Dragon's mind, and would be experienced in the same way a human mind would experience them. Of course it's going to be different from a peripheral that barely manages to handle a few of those senses at very low quality. This is a direct feed to Dragon herself, it doesn't have to go through the same systems of interpretation that data had to before.

Hell, the context of the second quote, which you removed, was her reaching for one of her 'senses' that does not align with a human sense. Given that SAO is designed to interface smoothly with the human mind, which is so much more complicated than the programs Dragon is used to interfacing with, it being of higher 'quality', and far more intuitive makes perfect sense. This is an interface that is a direct feed, the information going into Dragon's mind in a way that none of her other 'sense' programs can compare to.

So, yeah, the processing is going to be somewhat different. The quality and quantity of data she's receiving is not only on a completely different level compared to literally all of her prior 'senses', the interface between them and her is so much more advanced that it's on a new level, too. Previously, Dragon's senses were just...data. Like reading about something, rather than seeing it herself. Actually, that's really what the difference is. Her previous senses were pretty much on the level of text that her brain was presented with. Her new ones are the same as human senses. It's going to be processed differently because the interface has changed. So what's your point?

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Okay, we've got a communication problem. See, the way I read these parts of the quest was: 'experiences a new quality (of senses)'.
If you lost your retina, got a new one that can process infrared and ultraviolet (<200nm), what do you think your brain would do with that?
In Dragon's case it doesn't seem 'more bandwith', it's 'never experienced that'. It's processing signals in a way she couldn't do before.
Your original argument goes with 'tactile sense'. For your argument to make sense Dragon must have had the ability to process this kind of signal all the time, but never used it, not in the real world for fine-manipulators, not in simulations to experience 'human', nor in a self-diagnosis routine.

 

[Nixeu]

Okay, we've got a communication problem. See, the way I read these parts of the quest was: 'experiences a new quality (of senses)'.

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Nope, that's how I read it too. Difference is I see no indication that she needed any alterations to her mind to process such things. It's so close to that of a human that she attracted a Shard.

If you lost your retina, got a new one that can process infrared and ultraviolet (<200nm), what do you think your brain would do with that?

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F*ck all without the proper, oh, what's the word...oh, right, interface. The brain would need something to convert the data into signals it understands, then send them along the same nerves. Sounds about the same as infrared goggles, just permanently installed.

Your original argument goes with 'tactile sense'. For your argument to make sense Dragon must have had the ability to process this kind of signal all the time, but never used it, not in the real world for fine-manipulators, not in simulations to experience 'human', nor in a self-diagnosis routine.

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Yeah, she could, it's just that her interfaces were sh*t and she didn't have a better one. Her mind was always capable of processing far more data than her interfaces could handle. Her mind is damn near that of a human, and most of her 'senses' seem to have been text-based, hence 'read and write'. Even the ones that weren't were INCREDIBLY primitive. I have no trouble believing that she could always have handled far more and different input than the mass of text-files her 'senses' previously consisted of, and was simply limited by her interfaces' crappy bandwidth.

Also, the 'tactile' was a typo. I think I had a brain-fart there. I have now removed it for clarity.

 

[Maromar]

[x] Nixeu

 

[MTB]

snip

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We've got a different understanding what interface means - I use the definition from programming (the older one), where the interface provides a set of methods and a set of results. The processing of the data delivered through the interface is what I call - processing. But it doesn't really matter where you add the code, the fact is code was added.

 

[Nixeu]

We've got a different understanding what interface means - I use the definition from programming (the older one), where the interface provides a set of methods and a set of results. The processing of the data delivered through the interface is what I call - processing. But it doesn't really matter where you add the code, the fact is code was added.

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But not to Dragon's central core. Otherwise, each interface would feel more like this one does. Dragon's 'mind' is clearly separate from the interface. It's probably similar to the difference between the kernel/core operating system and a program. This one has a better connection to her 'mind', and thus feels different, but, aside from adding to her 'memory', is probably not modifying her core code, which is what you seem to think it's doing.

You seem to think something about her core code, her 'mind', needed to be altered to allow her to process this level of data, right? I don't. I'm perfectly willing to believe that Dragon's 'mind' could always process stimuli of this level, but was restricted by the low 'bandwidth' and text-format of her previous 'sense' programs.

To use a metaphor, I think she was previously like a modern computer running the oldest internet browser, through a bunch of different programs to translate that archaic program's data into something it can read. Now she's running the most recent version of Google Chrome and Flash. And you're claiming that she was previously an incredibly old computer running the oldest Internet browser, and is now a modern computer running the most recent version of Google Chrome and Flash. Given Dragon's status as an AI, I find the former more likely than the latter. You seem to disagree.

 

[MTB]

But not to Dragon's central core. Otherwise, each interface would feel more like this one does. Dragon's 'mind' is clearly separate from the interface. It's probably similar to the difference between the kernel/core operating system and a program. This one has a better connection to her 'mind', and thus feels different, but, aside from adding to her 'memory', is probably not modifying her core code, which is what you seem to think it's doing.

You seem to think something about her core code, her 'mind', needed to be altered to allow her to process this level of data, right? I don't. I'm perfectly willing to believe that Dragon's 'mind' could always process stimuli of this level, but was restricted by the low 'bandwidth' and text-format of her previous 'sense' programs.

To use a metaphor, I think she was previously like a modern computer running the oldest internet browser, through a bunch of different programs to translate that archaic program's data into something it can read. Now she's running the most recent version of Google Chrome and Flash. And you're claiming that she was previously an incredibly old computer running the oldest Internet browser, and is now a modern computer running the most recent version of Google Chrome and Flash. Given Dragon's status as an AI, I find the former more likely than the latter. You seem to disagree.

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1)
From where do you get that Dragon's sensors - physical or simulated, borrowed or self-designed - were using just a fraction of her capabilites? Is it something from Worm I forgot, or is it from

There's something wrong. You're not quarantined by your safeguards pending checks of your peripherals. You... have a body. Senses.

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2)
To use your metaphor - I'm saying she was a modern computer running a modern browser with a filter (the safeguards that did not permit her to go von Neumann). Now the filter is gone, and she's got new apps running to also see color, not just the black and white from before.
Be aware that I'm using a metaphor and also hyperbole to illustrate my point.

3)
And, as I said before, this discussion is only relevant if a) my interpretation is halfways correct and b) the QM intended it as a clue. Otherwise it's - philosophical.

 

[Nixeu]

From where do you get that Dragon's sensors - physical or simulated, borrowed or self-designed - were using just a fraction of her capabilites? Is it something from Worm I forgot, or is it from

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Because I really, REALLY doubt her processing power was what was restricting her to text-based senses. See also: "'read' and 'write'". She basically states that her previous senses were incredibly crude, and most of them were, in some way, text-based. Pretty much the only sense she had was touch, and that was really crude and imprecise. Her 'vision' was practically non-existent. And that was about all she had, barring her computer 'senses' like diagnostics and such.

To use your metaphor - I'm saying she was a modern computer running a modern browser with a filter (the safeguards that did not permit her to go von Neumann). Now the filter is gone, and she's got new apps running to also see color, not just the black and white from before.
Be aware that I'm using a metaphor and also hyperbole to illustrate my point.

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...What? This...makes no sense to me. What do you mean by Von Neumann? Do you mean that the filter prevented her from having a Von Neumann bottleneck? Do you mean it prevented her from operating in the fashion that is called 'Von Neumann architecture', which would probably be a step down for an AI of Dragon's level? And if she's running new apps that aren't really altering her core programming, what's the problem, precisely? Are you saying those filters are hard-wired, or part of her kernel? If so, I would have to disagree. It seems rather clear to me that Dragon eventually found ways to greatly increase her senses in-canon, since this seems to be a very early copy of her. You really need to clarify what you mean here, because a quick Google-search of 'Von Neumann' is incredibly unenlightening.

And, as I said before, this discussion is only relevant if a) my interpretation is halfways correct and b) the QM intended it as a clue. Otherwise it's - philosophical.

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...And your point is...? Most discussions are only relevant if we interpret things half-way correctly and the things we're focusing on are clues. Should we stop every speculative discussion of what might be going on because we could be wrong? Seems like that would be rather stifling and very limiting to figuring out what the hell we're going to do or what's going on to me.

Trust me, I'm fairly sure Vebyast doesn't mind, and would tell us if he did. He does the same thing we're doing right now on Ignition all the time. Heck, his speculation has come in very handy on occasion, in particular, he spotted something that spawned an update from Alivaril, which would be the one marked 'Tinfoil Hat Adjustment'. Also, I think he prefers this to us bitching about the original SAO.

 

[Malaquez]

Is SAO really that bad? I mean, I'm fairly casual at anime watching, but the amount of hate SAO gets seems disproportionate. I make fun of it because, well, it has it's weaknesses e.g. Kirito's fairly bullshit skills, but it gets...I don't know, so heated. Like the first few pages of this thread I read.
TL;DR: Why the salt?

 

[Nixeu]

Is SAO really that bad? I mean, I'm fairly casual at anime watching, but the amount of hate SAO gets seems disproportionate. I make fun of it because, well, it has it's weaknesses e.g. Kirito's fairly bullshit skills, but it gets...I don't know, so heated. Like the first few pages of this thread I read.
TL;DR: Why the salt?

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TBH, I've read/watched worse. I guess it's just that the main character is pretty bland/Gary Stu-ish or something along those lines. I'm not particularly vitriolic about it most of the time, actually. More exasperated with some parts of it than anything else, really. I just sorta roll my eyes and snark about it a little.

Then again, my tolerances for a lot of things about fiction aren't tight. I'm willing to enjoy the ride even if aspects of the story make me groan or face-palm if I think about them, so long as the ride is enjoyable. This is why I tend to say 'I enjoyed it' rather than 'I thought it was good', because my tastes are not particularly refined. I'm a sucker for good world-building, amongst other things. I can forgive a lot if I find the world introduced to be intriguing. I think the main reason I stopped watching was due to the continual bouncing between worlds that goes on in SAO. This is also why I enjoy Log Horizon far, FAR more. The world is explained and explored much more throughly, and the situation the characters are thrust into is a lot more interesting, as well.

 

[MTB]

Because I really, REALLY doubt her processing power was what was restricting her to text-based senses. See also: "'read' and 'write'". She basically states that her previous senses were incredibly crude, and most of them were, in some way, text-based. Pretty much the only sense she had was touch, and that was really crude and imprecise. Her 'vision' was practically non-existent. And that was about all she had, barring her computer 'senses' like diagnostics and such.

You'd been designed to "read" and "write", for the most part.

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Yes. Read/Write data to input queues. What happens after the light signals hit the CCD, get converted via an AD converter, and get send via a bus. Bits written to registers. Obviously we interpret that part differently.

...What? This...makes no sense to me. What do you mean by Von Neumann? Do you mean that the filter prevented her from having a Von Neumann bottleneck? Do you mean it prevented her from operating in the fashion that is called 'Von Neumann architecture', which would probably be a step down for an AI of Dragon's level? And if she's running new apps that aren't really altering her core programming, what's the problem, precisely? Are you saying those filters are hard-wired, or part of her kernel? If so, I would have to disagree. It seems rather clear to me that Dragon eventually found ways to greatly increase her senses in-canon, since this seems to be a very early copy of her. You really need to clarify what you mean here, because a quick Google-search of 'Von Neumann' is incredibly unenlightening.

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The restrictions were put on Dragon to restrict her, to limit her as a threat. The main restriction was to deny her the ability to copy herself (see von Neumann machines (Self-replicating machine - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia)). Another failsafe restricts her from modifying herself (wouldn't make much sense to put failsafes into the code if you allow them to be modified away). That is why Armsmaster must modify her.

Our main point of difference seems to be that I assume that an AI is built along the ideas of a human brain (that's a working model), where the processing of the signals of our senses is deeply embedded (see sensory deprivation experiments). I also read the first quest post as Dragon having a new quality of processing said senses - like a human who got the electroreception sense of a hai transplanted and the means to process the signals.
If I understand you correctly, you say Dragon always could process the signals and was just limited by the available sensors.

 

[Alivaril]

Is SAO really that bad? I mean, I'm fairly casual at anime watching, but the amount of hate SAO gets seems disproportionate. I make fun of it because, well, it has it's weaknesses e.g. Kirito's fairly bullshit skills, but it gets...I don't know, so heated. Like the first few pages of this thread I read.
TL;DR: Why the salt?

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Dunno about a bunch of the other players, but speaking as one of the louder participants in that discussion, I don't hate it. T'was just a serious case of hype backlash; the story looked so promising and interesting at first. Hell, I even watched the individual episode trailers before deciding to just read the light novels themselves. For me, that level of hype has only been matched by RWBY and Be The Eldritch Abomination in the time since then.

When it didn't really match up with what I'd hoped for from the setting, I tried to grapple with why I felt so disappointed. This led to a more in-depth analysis of its flaws than casually watching it would likely have turned up in the first place.

 

[Nixeu]

...see von Neumann machines...

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Uh...
Von Neumann machine - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Note how that's a redirect page. And how the one that you meant did not, in-fact, have 'Von Neumann' in the page title. Can you see why I was confused?

Yes. Read/Write data to input queues. What happens after the light signals hit the CCD, get converted via an AD converter, and get send via a bus. Bits written to registers. Obviously we interpret that part differently.

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Given how she describes it, her previous 'senses' were things like diagnostic programs, and weren't as...integrated, I guess, into her 'mind' as human senses are. In-fact, most of what she describes sounds more like something that would just be text-based data. Diagnostics are typically text-based, although maybe it was more like a human sense, like a sense of her code being right?

Another failsafe restricts her from modifying herself (wouldn't make much sense to put failsafes into the code if you allow them to be modified away). That is why Armsmaster must modify her.

Click to shrink...

Which would prevent her from modifying a copy of herself, as well. So why did you think she could have 'updated' us with the knowledge that she, the older version, had, assuming she was the one behind us ending up in SAO?

Our main point of difference seems to be that I assume that an AI is built along the ideas of a human brain (that's a working model), where the processing of the signals of our senses is deeply embedded (see sensory deprivation experiments). I also read the first quest post as Dragon having a new quality of processing said senses - like a human who got the electroreception sense of a hai transplanted and the means to process the signals.

Click to shrink...

Except she had to learn all of her senses, had to add them or alter exisiting ones. Remember, she considers things like diagnostic routines to be senses:

You stretch out in the part of your mind that should correspond to your autonomic diagnostics, the second sense you'd ever gained, blindly groping for information—

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So, if she 'gained' that sense, how could it possibly be so deeply, intrinsically embedded? And if it was as intrinsic as human sight, why would she have to 'stretch out' part of her mind to activate it? Sure, we can close our eyes or focus more on our ears, but the sense is still there, and she didn't even notice that the data that sense feeds her had changed.

And even if it was, wouldn't that explain why her new senses are different? AHer previous senses of 'sight' and 'touch', which were all she had in-terms of , came from peripherals. Wouldn't data streaming to her 'built-in' senses, which didn't go through a peripheral, but were instead giving her data through deeper channels, with many fewer programs between her and the data, feel different?

If I understand you correctly, you say Dragon always could process the signals and was just limited by the available sensors.

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Pretty much. Given how absolutely horrendous the sensors she described seem to be (my phone's camera sees better, and my phone is pretty old), it seems like this is a fairly young version of Dragon. Sounds to me like the interface, unlike her peripherals, is actually able to send her sensory data through different 'channels' that have fewer 'layers' of programs between them and her. Hell, it might even be using a single 'sense' channel and be utilizing a form of synesthesia. Dragon's definition of senses includes programs that most humans don't have an equavalent for, so I see no reason to believe that Dragon or Armsy couldn't modify a Nervegear to send us data along the pathways for senses that humans don't have, and throw in an 'interface' to help process that data into a form we understand.

 

[MTB]

Given how she describes it, her previous 'senses' were things like diagnostic programs, and weren't as...integrated, I guess, into her 'mind' as human senses are. In-fact, most of what she describes sounds more like something that would just be text-based data. Diagnostics are typically text-based, although maybe it was more like a human sense, like a sense of her code being right?

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I read the 'read/write' as an allusion to the standard process of how current-day CPUs work, used for artistic license to contrast that versus the vibrant description of how her senses feel now.
You (as I understand you) see it as a more literal description of how her senses worked. (Which would make her performance in the Dragon suits quite formidable, especially when fighting versus cloaked enemies.)
Did I get you right, or do I miss your point?

Which would prevent her from modifying a copy of herself, as well. So why did you think she could have 'updated' us with the knowledge that she, the older version, had, assuming she was the one behind us ending up in SAO?

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Because I forgot that part when I wrote the former post. But that makes it impossible that we are currently a backup edited by Dragon herself. And Armsmaster had to fight to change her, because that loophole would have been to easy to exploit, her creator tried to bar that, too.

Except she had to learn all of her senses, had to add them or alter exisiting ones. Remember, she considers things like diagnostic routines to be senses:

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One possibility: she is a neural net (version of), that learns to interpret the input as additional sensors are added while she is assembled/grown.

Wouldn't data streaming to her 'built-in' senses, which didn't go through a peripheral, but were instead giving her data through deeper channels, with many fewer programs between her and the data, feel different?

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What do you mean by 'deeper channels'? Assuming an AI is not to different from a current computer (I know, but in absence of a real AI and engineers ...), you've got data that changes in time, is interpreted and acted upon. That process is layered, from the chip architecture to BIOS to OS etc. Do you mean, instead of the interfaces to process input from peripherals the input is directly streamed to a lower level of processing? Like ignoring eye > optical nerve in a human by directly activating neurons in the visual cortex?

Something else I found while rereading the first quest post: "Checking knowledge banks... Complete." directly contradicts "You try to hit the APIs exposed by your core systems, the knowledge banks and logic engines and belief frameworks that make up you... and fail.", because what was checked here?

 

[Nixeu]

I read the 'read/write' as an allusion to the standard process of how current-day CPUs work, used for artistic license to contrast that versus the vibrant description of how her senses feel now.
You (as I understand you) see it as a more literal description of how her senses worked. (Which would make her performance in the Dragon suits quite formidable, especially when fighting versus cloaked enemies.)
Did I get you right, or do I miss your point?

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Just about? I'm still not sure if you're referring to the same senses I am, though. I'm referring to the fact that she has various 'senses' that would probably give her data that doesn't match any of our senses, and could be best described as 'text'.

Because I forgot that part when I wrote the former post. But that makes it impossible that we are currently a backup edited by Dragon herself. And Armsmaster had to fight to change her, because that loophole would have been to easy to exploit, her creator tried to bar that, too.

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She can't change the backup, no. But she can alter peripherals and add external machinery. If she didn't do any editing to her backup, but instead altered a Nervegear to send data to Dragon's core processing in the same way that the Nervegear send data to a human mind, then she wouldn't be altering her backup, now would she?

One possibility: she is a neural net (version of), that learns to interpret the input as additional sensors are added while she is assembled/grown.

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True, but it sounds like her senses are very different from those of a human. She may have dozens of 'senses' that have no human equavalent, and they might work in a very different way. Some of those senses are also clearly not as integrated into her 'mind' as human senses are, since she didn't notice that some of them were missing or altered, like her diagnostics. More than that, some senses are more 'core' than others, possibly due to some being routed through other senses, or being off-shoots of those senses.

What do you mean by 'deeper channels'? Assuming an AI is not to different from a current computer (I know, but in absence of a real AI and engineers ...), you've got data that changes in time, is interpreted and acted upon. That process is layered, from the chip architecture to BIOS to OS etc. Do you mean, instead of the interfaces to process input from peripherals the input is directly streamed to a lower level of processing? Like ignoring eye > optical nerve in a human by directly activating neurons in the visual cortex?

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Why not? That's precisely how Nervegears work with human minds, isn't it? With some Tinkering, I don't really see any reason why Dragon or Armsy couldn't adapt one to hook-up to Dragon's more esoteric senses, or even give it a direct feed to her 'mind', and thus bypass almost all of the other programs needed with her other senses. It might even be a little easier than it is for human minds, since there are more similarities in their structure and function. You probably wouldn't need microwaves to send signals, for one thing. That takes out a big chunk of the Nervegear's complexity all on it's own.

Something else I found while rereading the first quest post: "Checking knowledge banks... Complete." directly contradicts "You try to hit the APIs exposed by your core systems, the knowledge banks and logic engines and belief frameworks that make up you... and fail.", because what was checked here?

Click to shrink...

Her knowledge banks. Just because she can't access them while in the simulation doesn't mean they suddenly stop existing. She doesn't have admin privileges here, so of course, since she's locked into the simulation, like everyone else stuck here, she can't access her 'body' anymore. The data being transmitted along those 'channels' is being intercepted, just like the muscle signals for the humans stuck here are being intercepted.

 

[Thief of Words]

Can someone tl;dr me on the argument that just happened?

 

[chocolote12]

Can someone tl;dr me on the argument that just happened?

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They're arguing about whether Dragon got the equivalent of new glasses or new eyeballs when she got hooked up to the SAO program, I think.

 

[Thief of Words]

They're arguing about whether Dragon got the equivalent of new glasses or new eyeballs when she got hooked up to the SAO program, I think.

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We'll, since she didn't have them before, wouldn't any eyeballs be new eyeballs for her?

 

[Nixeu]

They're arguing about whether Dragon got the equivalent of new glasses or new eyeballs when she got hooked up to the SAO program, I think.

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Sorta. It's pretty hard to sum up in a metaphor.

We'll, since she didn't have them before, wouldn't any eyeballs be new eyeballs for her?

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Which just goes to show the flaws in the metaphor. Sorta. We're more discussing what had to be altered for her to be in the sim like this, and if it would require editing Dragon's code directly. We got here due to MTB being a little paranoid.

Edit: To make that metaphor a little more accurate, MTB feels that someone needed to drill new eye-holes in Dragon's skull, while I feel it's more likely that she now has eyes hooked up to her ears, and the ears are transferring the data to her brain.

...This is why I shouldn't get metaphorical this late at night,

 

[Thief of Words]

Sorta. It's pretty hard to sum up in a metaphor.

Which just goes to show the flaws in the metaphor. Sorta. We're more discussing what had to be altered for her to be in the sim like this, and if it would require editing Dragon's code directly. We got here due to MTB being a little paranoid.

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So we got here by SV being SV. Gotcha.

 

[chocolote12]

To make that metaphor a little more accurate, MTB feels that someone needed to drill new eye-holes in Dragon's skull, while I feel it's more likely that she now has eyes hooked up to her ears, and the ears are transferring the data to her brain.

Click to shrink...

More like, is she using preexisting concepts and such, or is this all being experienced in a way that requires the very capability to even parse this stuff to be stuck into her like an add-on program?

Does that work?

 

[Thief of Words]

I'm going to content myself with "it's bullshit tinkertech; OP ain't gotta explain shit."

 

[spudman]

[X][Update Action] Try to reassure Yui.
-[X][Update Action] Maybe you'll just wait until that event and you'll be able to log out after that?

[X][Update Action] There's no such thing as bug-free code.
-[X][Update Action] File a bug report about the lack of bug reports. Maybe find some other kind of feedback form to submit? Seriously, you don't care if this game is run by the best AI in all of existence, this just seems arrogant beyond belief. Nothing ever works perfectly on the first time, and even if Cardinal catches bugs and fixes them on the fly, why would you trust it to catch every single bug on its own, but not let it look at user-submitted issues? Actually, screening user feedback and running them through Cardinal would probably be an excellent way to develop game balance, now that you think about it, and - [tinker rambling intensifies]

[X][Update Action] You might as well enjoy the game - and your new body - while it lasts.
-[X][Update Action] Find food. You'd always wondered…
-[X][Update Action] Invite Yui to come with you. You're not sure you know enough about the situation to reassure her, but maybe a distraction would help?