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Dragon Ball, DBZ and DBGT Ideas, Discussion, and Recommendation Thread

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Zam

After looking and asking around it appears that there is no Dragon Ball or Dragon Ball related media thread for idea, fic recs or discussion. I don't know if there's some or no interest but I thought I might put together a thread for it and to kick things off add in some recs of my own.

Recs:
Eclipse
By: DoraMouse
Android creation explained, human potential expanded upon and the details of world politics examined. Set between the Freezia and Cell sagas, explodes the effects of the Garlic Jr. saga. Recommended for fans of the first Dragonball series. In progress.
(At 41 chapters Eclipse is a solid read and probably my favourite DBZ fanfic, offering high quality writing, fascinating world and character building and an interesting plot. It does have an early focus on an OC but the focus quickly spreads out and they don't even interact with the main cast much, leading to multiple simultaneous stories with colliding efforts and plots.)
I would honestly recommend more or less anything DoraMouse has written simply due to the high quality of their work.

Half-Remembered Dream
By: SpiderLedgic
The next generation has arrived! Master Roshi, the aging Turtle Hermit, felt as though he could finally step down. However, with the reemergence of an old enemy, and another chance to keep on fighting, Roshi must now rethink that decision... Edited by Super Vegetarott
(Basically Roshi wishes for youth before King Piccolo does hurling canon off it's rails in multiple different directions. It's still quite early and has somewhat infrequent updates but the overall quality is quite solid andd it's a unique idea.)

Rite of Passage
By: Demi-Saiyajin Prodigy
(Complete) A simple trip to track down her future husband. That's all it was supposed to be. But ChiChi's voyage to the 23rd Tenkaichi Budoukai takes on a sharp turn that she never could have expected.
(It's a oneshot but an extremely well written one in my eyes that does a good job adding to both the character and the world as a whole.)

Alphabetized
By: MarshmellowDragon
A to Z, one character, one drabble, for each letter of the alphabet. Who knows, maybe you'll learn something new.
(A unique idea that offers some creative and unique insights on numerous different characters.)

Also, a very new fic so I can't say where it is going: Human Limitations. Basically 'what if Radits landed in West City and Yamcha tried to fight him?'
Suffice to say the fight goes about as well as can be excepted until Radits assumes he's won and suffers a tail grab, but then Gero shows up, Piccolo is mistaken for killing Yamcha who has disappeared and Radits manipulates Goku into joining him in out space to fight Frieza and numerous other chaotic plot threads are being weaved. There also seems to be a shadowy force slightly manipulating the characters to cause descent which helps with some of the behaviour I originally thought OOC.

Change the Guard
By: Lisse
A meeting between a mother and an old soul in the future timeline. No one asks to be reborn.
(Short, but well written as well as effectively melancholy with a realistic take on a world reigned over by the Cyborgs and what growing up in it would be like this is also very much a personal favourite.)

Power Ripples
By: Supersaiyaninfinitygohan
Destiny hangs on a thread so thin it is practically invisible, and that can be altered by the smallest of changes. So what happens when in the fateful battle with the Saiyans, Yamcha sees the Saibaman coming?
(This is an interesting What if that seems to be spiralling off into some very interesting AU territory with some minor changes early on leading to big ones and a somewhat, in some cases, more realistic look at some of the fallout from the characters experiences. The author apparently doesn't plan to put humans on the same fighting power as Sayians, so if that's a concern then there's no need and they have plans to make good use of some of the movie concepts and seems to be meshing them with canon quite effectively. This rec does come with a bit of a caveat, that, to me, Gohan felt somewhat odd in a few places when referencing his Sayian biology & one or two minor things, but those are mostly personal and or minor.

And of course there's Vejiitasei Ascendant in a universe where the Sayian Empire stayed independant of Frieza but are no less evil for it and Vegeta has grown frustrated with constantly being constrained to his home planet and unable to fight stronger opponents. This story has fantastic world and character building creating a very beliable culture and society for the Sayians based on what has been seen along with expanding on individuals like Zarbon and Radits. It has two completed 'books' one focussing on Vegeta's teenage years and initial training with Zarbon, the second on discovering Earth and more importantly Capsule Technology and a third which is long but sadly unfinished.

I would also, personally, recommended Earthling Chronicles,where Tenshinhan/Tien is the one to sacrifice himself against Radits and receive King Kai's training with the author planning for the whole cast to get similar degrees of representation that canon ended up seemingly reserving for Goku and Super Sayains. (While I have seen such premises executed just for bashing purposes this story sidesteps that and shows a great deal of respect to all the characters while keeping everyone fairly IC.)
This does come with the caveat that the early chapter sell the fic somewhat short as the author is very much new at the start and it shows with a certain degree of canon rehashing and somewhat not necessarily high quality writing. However, they improved quickly with each chapter and by mid Sayian Saga reached an impressive level of overall quality and has been diverting from canon in very interesting ways.

Some ideas:
1. After Piccolo's defeat Bulma is left concerned, having grown used to threats to the world either being incompetent without the Dragon Balls or dying Piccolo's survival begins to concern her along with her own growing feelings of relative powerlessness. This leads her to try and reinvent the Battle Jacket (Basically Dragon Ball mechs) so that it can compete with Ki wielding Martial Artists in strength, speed and energy projection, steadily imrpoving on the designs as the Saga's continue to keep up with the rest of the cast.
(The idea came about when I mentioned TFS referenced Tony Stark to someone I know and they said Bulma was probably the most likely to be the "Iron Man" of the group, at which point we spent a while hashing out some of the details to avoid potential "Militarise it and or everybody can pilot/fire the weapon" issues that can crop up when introducing tech like this.
We covered it by saying the eventual due to the Battle Armour having having to convey so much information to the user so quickly, along with the user needing to be able to interpret that information that information before using getting the suit to respond leads to them being so complicated that only a genius like Bulma, Gero or her dad could pilot one effectively rather than have it just freeze up or fall over.

2. This idea was inspired by a comment made by Jcogginsa regarding the idea above on SB. So the motivation is the same as above, just Bulma starts designing an Android with the intent of it being her bodyguard in case Piccolo comes by and also just to see if she can. So she plans on mamking some 'smallish' so people won't suspect it and is using Yamcha to study Ki to create a synthetic version (possibly an senergy absorber?) But slowly, with designing the brain, Yamcha feeding it Ki and her giving it a CG Capsule Corp building to practice moving around in Bulma realizes she's created a fully functional and independent AI that is essentially a child, to a degree, and things go form there.

I figure after they realize the AI has grown it's own personality I imagine the 'weapon' idea would end up dropped once it became clear she'd basically created a child (or equivalent) but I could still see Bulma opting to make 'her' powerful regardless. I basically picture the Android as looking like Nico (from DB Heroes) and possibly named Nico, Bra or Bra Nico with Bulma and Yamcha unable to agree on which name should come first. I haven't played DB Heroes but I've seen the trailers.

As pointed out by Jcogginsa the chances of the DB cast not accepting her are pretty slim, as a group they pretty much just roll with and accept what comes their way so long as whoever it is hasn't tried to kill them recently. Though I still think it could lead to some very interesting philosophical question about how to treat such an entity, like trying to recreate the human condition despite there being some drastic differences. When and how does one define sapience and should they try to give Nico a 'normal' life (Again human/child condition & expectations) As well as how to design something like that and how it could start going off program (I imagine Bulma essentially outsmarted herself by doing 'too good' a job) Plus how an android might feel about its own existence, especially surrounded by it's fleshy creators and a body somewhat alien to their experiences. Is she self concious, is she emotionless or at least numbed at first, does she try to balance her 'lingering programming' with also being technically free willed and not obliged to do anything or is it hovering in the back of her head. Does she act completely 'normal' or is she unwilling to get along with other kids(though her parents probably can't say much there.) I could easily see a (we don't even know if the dragon can bring you back!) situation popping up at some point.

Somehow Yamcha learning and or gaining energy absorbers gems things won't leave my head now either, especially if he acts as the early energy source and I don't know if I approve or not. This idea could also work in preparation for the Androids Saga; basically Bulma is concerned and decides to build her own Android for protection and yeah, sorry Future Trunks, you're past mother was too distracted with 'Science!' to conceive you, whoops.

3. and final concept that I've toyed around with before.
A DBZ AU where each of the moves is it's own arc as opposed to the original series, so Worlds Strongest, Tree of Might, Bojack ETC. Figuring out when and where and how certain events would happen, or if they even should and how things might change if they don't is a rather big task.

Discussion Topics?
What are peoples thoughts on the new movies if you have any?

Well, I hope that's not to bad for my first attempt at starting an idea, discussion and rec thread XD if there are any problems please tell me and I will endeavour to correct them.
 
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So I got this story in my head, nothing written so far, this is not even a draft, but just the initial story idea with a few plot points described. Think of it as a 'pitch' of sorts:

The story starts right after Goku lost against Tien Shinhan, when they're all about to eat thanks to Tien's prize money. The divergence here ocurrs in that, Krillin is not present when Goku realizes he forgot his four-star dragon ball and bo-staff -he was at the bathroom at the time- so Goku himself ends up going to get them. This leads to Goku being killed by Tambourine.

So now, we have Krillin vowing to get revenge instead of Goku. Of course, he's not as strong, nor does he have any kind of "zenkai power" to power him up to Piccolo's level. So when he ends up finding Tambourine, he's barely able to keep up, and Yajirobe ends up saving him.

Of course, this angers Picollo who sends Cymbal against them, and Yajirobe kills and eats him like he did in canon. This sets up Yajirobe as Picollo's main foe, in his eyes. He sends a stronger minion against Yajirobe, and a weaker one against Krillin who at this point left Yajirobe to go back to Kame-senin and ask for more training.

The new demon created by Picollo is not as strong as Drum would end up being in canon, but is more than enough to be a match for Krillin, who starts feeling increasingly inadequate to fight the monsters. Their fight leads them to Penguin Village, and it's Arale this time who saves Krillin. Where he stays in order to be healed.

The other monster that went against Yajirobe? Killed him. And Piccolo orders him to destroy Penguin Village. The monster destroys Arale, and before he's able to destroy the village, Senbei (Dr. Slump) asks Krillin to leave with Turbo.

Krillin uses the flying technique for the first time and escapes just in time the nuclear-like explosion Piccolo's ki blasts cause.

This leads to Turbo going all Dr. Maki Gero on Krillin, and turning him into a cyborg (or android, by going with Dragon Ball's terminology). Turbo was established as being much smarter than his father, and his father was able to create Arale, who is on par with Goku during the Red Ribbon saga, so it's very likely that Turbo could in fact create androids that are on par with what Dr. Gero later does.

After that? Some stuff with Roshi and Tien teaming up to trap Piccolo, which ultimately fails like it did in canon. And again, Piccolo gets his wish for eternal youth.

So... Bulma's time machine shows up. But since there are no Goku, there's no good!Vegeta in the future, so there's no Trunks to pilot it. Instead, Videl shows up. She intended to save Goku from Tambourine, but was attacked at the time her ship was about to start, which lead to her arriving way too late for her to complete her mission, and with a completely broken time machine.


Thoughts?
 
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LSauchelli said:
Thoughts?
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(Figured I'd cross post as well.)
Overall I think its an interesting potential divergence, a little sad about no Chichi, Yajirobe's death and the lack of Tien's presence, but the overarching idea of 'everyone dealing with issues without Goku' and even more the divergence happening around King Piccolo really intrigues me and I think the initial change can work fairly well, Goku's tired, Tamborine did win their first fight and heck, if he doesn't go for a cheap shot maybe Goku gets the first hit in on him which hurts him enough for Tambourine to instantly take it seriously and retort with a surprise mouth ki blast to the face then legging it? (Granted Tien may follow then)

I am not so sure however about the Android/Cyborg Krillin or Piccolo being able to make so many more children, it seemed to be all he could do to handle the two creations he had and to make them as strong as he did let alone stronger.

Suggestion, if you wanted to have Videl come from a future where Piccolo rules you could say that at some point during his reign of terror Piccolo destroyed MT Pazou which wiped out Goku's ship cancelling his ships signal so it falls down lower on the list and gets largely forgotten save by Radits who may not be able to get permission to go with the ship destroyed as that would imply Kakarot failed meaning Vegeta/Frieza likely wouldn't be interested in him wasting the time. Heck even he may not care that much if he think his brother failed.
 
I'll throw in The Long Road, one of the best DBZ stories in my opinion.

The premise is Radditz kidnapping Gohan before returning with Vegeta and Nappa. After the Cell arc Gohan returns as an officer of the Planet Trade Organization under Cooler and is confronted with his inadequacies while stranded on earth.
 
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This thread looks a bit lonely on the idea front. Perhaps I should fix that.

Okay. Here is an idea that has been going through my head for months. I just don't have the time to write it down.

*

This is a big What-if scenario for 'Jaco the Galactic Patrolman'. Which mainly revolves on how much of a massive plot hole it is in certain parts and how it could have easily derailed almost all of Dragon Ball canon before the series even began. Along with only one variation of Tights and Jaco's farewell.

What if Tights finds a galactic book that listed the races in the galaxy in the ship that Jaco was allowed to hand over the Briefs family. Jaco does not find a problem with leaving the book to her (along with a convenient translation device) because he didn't think it was nearly as big of a deal compared to the ship that he was authorized to hand over. So the Brief family discovers several (if not all) of the different sentient races in galaxy. Including what a Saiyan is and even Frieza's race.

It then shifts to a scene where the King Furry finds out about Jaco's activities through eyewitness testimony (especially since there were a number of government figures involved in the event) which eventually leads them to the Brief Family since they were the last people to establish 'first contact' with the alien. After they find the obvious spaceship and the book of different races, it was now obvious that man (or earthling in this case) was not the only sentient life in the galaxy. It was one of many in the galaxy.

This doesn't really change much of canon other than the government wanting to keep an eye on Capsule Corporation so they don't try to do any unethical with the new technology. It also leads to the beginnings of a new space program. After all, why would humanity waste a space fairing vessel for only flying cars and not actually try to explore the universe? But this would still take years of proper testing and experimentation to reverse engineer a good spaceship. Like NASA, the space community is trying to make sure the ship actually works. Especially after a certain controversial space launch involving the daughter of the President of Capsule Corp.

Other than that, there is not much else different other than the government noting down the different alien races from that one book that Tights got. At least until a certain government individual in charge of keeping track of the elderly population (mostly from from distant places and finding out if they were alive or not) finds an old man named Gohan with an 'grandson' who just happens to have a monkey tale. This leads to King Furry and certain officials in the know realize that the descriptions matches with one of the warmongering Saiyans the book warned about and they decide that an actual investigation needs to be carried out.

Despite some worries from the government, nothing bad actually happens and after convincing Grampa Gohan that they were not going to be doing any bad to the child as long as he was harmless (relatively because this is Goku we are talking about even if he is a baby). This actually leads to Elder Gohan to actually survive his canon fate because the government wanted to make sure that there wasn't a giant rampaging monkey that appeared during the full moon. It also leads to the government to find that spaceship Goku came in which further helps the advancement of the future space program. It also contains information through encrypted files in a minature computer that about the PTO, why Goku was sent to Earth, and their little business practices a few months after the pod is discovered. This naturally freaks out those in the know and they figured that the only way Earth would survive is if it built an army to beat it. Which would be pretty difficult especially since most of Earth's technology is hopelessly obsolete for the task. Especially when almost no one other than Old Man Gohan knew what 'Ki' was in the first place.

This accidental discovery makes King Furry and several other officials wonder if there is other alien life on Earth. Especially since there are several places on Earth that were not a part of civilization and there was all kinds of stories of strange circumstance. So a special expedition team is set up to do a full survey of Earth and this creates a heavily altered version of classical Dragon Ball. This also leads to several members of the Earth's military to train under a certain turtle hermit due to some help by Elder Gohan. It also leads to the formation of a new training program for the future defenders of Earth that include many characters like Krillin, Yamcha, Tien, Chi-Chi (and actually ends up becoming a Z fighter since she could actually train instead of being pushed to the side), Mark Satan (aka Hercule) and even a few other minor characters like Nam.

Goku would also join the program (because why not, it gives him fights against powerful opponents) and even be given brain surgery to fix the fracture in his skull. This leads to him becoming a bit smarter and better at long-term planning although he is still far from genius in anything other than fighting. He also participates in what could basically be described as Classical Dragon Ball, but in space! With elements of X-COM where the heroes are to help the local scientists (Including Bulma) gather technology and anything else interesting in the galaxy that might be useful for uplifting Earth. It also leads to a number of encounter with PTO mooks that boosts everyone's fighting skills far greater than what would have happened on Earth.

In fact, the cast would meet both Kami and the Namekian before even meeting King Piccolo. Also curb-stomp him in an extremely anti-climatic fight.

*

This is what I currently have at the moment. Thought?
 
SlyOverlord said:
This is what I currently have at the moment. Thought?
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I like the overall idea, I'm not so sure about the 'seeking out the elderly' thing given how much of DB seemed to be almost wild west style lawlessness, but if there's more interest in aliens they could be going over old reports of meteors and such in the hopes of them being crashed spaceships and thus meet Gohan like that, not so sure about the brain fracture repair, but I love the idea of Chichi and the rest of the cast being able to be relevant.

I'm not sure Piccolo would even be released in this canon and, heh, there could be some interesting stuff with the Crane Students due to meeting everyone under different circumstances, perhaps at first a more professional/competitive relationship? Would any of this affect the Red Ribbon army and how/why did soldiers start training under Roshi and Gohan?

Fighting the PTO mooks has cool potential but may run into the problem of drawing the PTO's ire, which they nominally already have due to Goku having been 'hired' to wipe the planet off so they may want to be careful on that front. Overall an intriguing spin on canon and space travel and aliens and an expanded cast could make for tons of amazing unique stories.
 
So there's this manga that's an official fanfic for Dragonball and Dragonball Z called, "The case of being reincarnated into Yamcha" and...

... In my opinion it's pretty terrible. It was an interesting concept, but it was executed poorly.

Just about everything interesting either occurs off-screen* or is glossed over like it was forgotten about**, the character development of the psuedo-SI main character still leaves him as the type of guy who would indirectly assault a girl with his paranormal abilities, and the SI reached an arbritary point where he was of the opinion everyone was too tough for him to fight then on out --without having been beaten as badly, often, or at all for that matter.

* including spoilers
all the clues as to the other SI's identity, so he could appear smart by figuring it out before the reader.

And he still failed at that, I semi-randomly guessed Chao-Su because of similar background role and his not being shown in any important scenes (even ones he canonically was in) and I wasn't the only one to guess Chao-Su.

**
Guess Freeza rules the galaxy, as Yamcha doesn't mention any reason for going back to Namek, and yet Cell has some of Freeza's looks anyways?
 
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Matou Sutegobana said:
So there's this manga that's an official fanfic for Dragonball and Dragonball Z called, "The case of being reincarnated into Yamcha" and...

... In my opinion it's pretty terrible. It was an interesting concept, but it was executed poorly.

Just about everything interesting either occurs off-screen* or is glossed over like it was forgotten about**, the character development of the psuedo-SI main character still leaves him as the type of guy who would indirectly assault a girl with his paranormal abilities, and the SI reached an arbritary point where he was of the opinion everyone was too tough for him to fight then on out --without having been beaten as badly, often, or at all for that matter.

* including spoilers
all the clues as to the other SI's identity, so he could appear smart by figuring it out before the reader.

And he still failed at that, I semi-randomly guessed Chao-Su because of similar background role and his not being shown in any important scenes (even ones he canonically was in) and I wasn't the only one to guess Chao-Su.

**
Guess Freeza rules the galaxy, as Yamcha doesn't mention any reason for going back to Namek, and yet Cell has some of Freeza's looks anyways?
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Well said, the concept is kind of interesting but ultimately feels not just wasted but to kind of screw itself and the reader over and ultimately be kind of unpleasant as well as lazy.
 
This thread seems a bit quiet... let's fix that with a bright and shiny scenario:

What if: Chi-Chi joined Krillin and Goku in training under Roshi?
 
TC9078 said:
This thread seems a bit quiet... let's fix that with a bright and shiny scenario:

What if: Chi-Chi joined Krillin and Goku in training under Roshi?
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An intriguing idea and there's a lot of ways to go with it.

The "Canon rails" in me dictate that she continues having her crush on Goku and trains with him, likely doing extremely well given she could already lop off a giant dinosaurs head basically on accident.

The less canon rails side of me says she may decide Goku is nice but due to him not understanding stuff and her own impatience things not developing with them being paired.

Obviously the marriage aspect is for the future stuff when they're way older but given it would come up I feel its necessary to address it early over just assume it will happen.

As I said, I imagine Chichi would do well in the training, she was already quite strong so it was more the mentality she needed and unless placed in the same group as Roshi or 'maybe' Goku she'd likely at least make it to the preliminary matches and then its up to random number drawing.
Note: I say maybe because I don't tend to go for the "Goku is Sayian and therefore will be stronger than everyone else" thinking, so Chichi could maybe be as strong or stronger or just fight better if they fought post training.

Beyond that its hard to say what ripples may or may not come about as the Dragon Ball era stuff was fairly closed circuit so to speak. Though I am reminded of the massive waves caused by Chichi travelling back in time like in:

More of the Same by WonderfulMadness reviews
An ill-timed outburst from Yamcha gives a few of the Z-fighters a chance to relive their histories. Who says only Saiyans can be the winners? Humans can fight too, damnit! Time-travel, not overly serious.
Dragon Ball Z - Rated: T - English - Humor/Adventure - Chapters: 47 - Words: 113,638 - Reviews: 376 - Favs: 211 - Follows: 266 - Updated: Feb 19 - Published: Sep 3, 2015 - Krillin, Yamcha, Tien
 
Zam said:
An intriguing idea and there's a lot of ways to go with it.

The "Canon rails" in me dictate that she continues having her crush on Goku and trains with him, likely doing extremely well given she could already lop off a giant dinosaurs head basically on accident.

The less canon rails side of me says she may decide Goku is nice but due to him not understanding stuff and her own impatience things not developing with them being paired.

Obviously the marriage aspect is for the future stuff when they're way older but given it would come up I feel its necessary to address it early over just assume it will happen.

As I said, I imagine Chichi would do well in the training, she was already quite strong so it was more the mentality she needed and unless placed in the same group as Roshi or 'maybe' Goku she'd likely at least make it to the preliminary matches and then its up to random number drawing.
Note: I say maybe because I don't tend to go for the "Goku is Sayian and therefore will be stronger than everyone else" thinking, so Chichi could maybe be as strong or stronger or just fight better if they fought post training.

Beyond that its hard to say what ripples may or may not come about as the Dragon Ball era stuff was fairly closed circuit so to speak.
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I personally don't think that the Saiyan aspect mattered much back then. Unless you are doing something like Piccolo's boot camp, strength will still be about the same as a powerful human. Which makes me think that Chi-Chi would be immensely strong, probably about the same as Goku himself. Since the number drawing can be thrown off by anything, we could have any number of scenarios where either Roshi still wins, or the two kids go up against each other in the final.

The main piece that would interest me is what they do after the Red Ribbon Army. I don't think Chi-Chi being around would change it very much (besides having a second OP beam shooting kid around), but I personally think that whether or not her crush on Goku stays, she would want to join him in his few years of training. Three years of the two of them travelling the world, fighting strong guys, and getting stronger. I think the payoff for having a constant sparring partner would be immense come the 22nd Tenkaichi Budokai, for both of them.
 
I remember Master Roshi perving on ChiChi as well, so sticking close to Toriyama's vision could make the fic unsuitable for SV.
 
Matou Sutegobana said:
I remember Master Roshi perving on ChiChi as well, so sticking close to Toriyama's vision could make the fic unsuitable for SV.
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Yeeeahh that was uncool to say the least.

TC9078 said:
I personally don't think that the Saiyan aspect mattered much back then. Unless you are doing something like Piccolo's boot camp, strength will still be about the same as a powerful human. Which makes me think that Chi-Chi would be immensely strong, probably about the same as Goku himself. Since the number drawing can be thrown off by anything, we could have any number of scenarios where either Roshi still wins, or the two kids go up against each other in the final.

The main piece that would interest me is what they do after the Red Ribbon Army. I don't think Chi-Chi being around would change it very much (besides having a second OP beam shooting kid around), but I personally think that whether or not her crush on Goku stays, she would want to join him in his few years of training. Three years of the two of them travelling the world, fighting strong guys, and getting stronger. I think the payoff for having a constant sparring partner would be immense come the 22nd Tenkaichi Budokai, for both of them.
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That sounds reasonable and Piccolo did have more advanced training techniques and knowledge of Ki much like Kami did, which I tend to assume it what allowed such immense growth in a single year for the cast members who used/discovered those methods. And yeah, agreed on that front, as noted Chichi was already really strong when we first met her so it'd likely just be experience she needs to keep up, plus she can already shoot a laser via her helmet, maybe that can be its own distinct Ki attack later.

Good insights on the number drawing, I do wonder if Roshi could/would lose if we take his later shown skills (IE bulk up) into consideration as if he gets desperate he may ditch finesse and just bulk up grab and slam them out of the ring. But yeah, regardless the numbers game could make some big differences. Kinda reminds me of a "World champion Yamcha" idea I toyed with once XD If one wanted to make it really random they actually could do a random umber selection themselves.

Hmm, definitely possible, however I also imagine she might want to see her father again at least for a little while given how close they were. However the RR Army could easily get involved with that by encroaching on their lands or the nearby territories and Chichi going to investigate and eventually reuniting with Goku.

Oh wow, I would feel bad for Tenshinhan if Goku and Chichi had a constant sparring partner for those three years.

However, it just occurred to me. Tao. Korin is who trained Goku to be strong enough to not immediately get stomped by Tao and it was only luck that saved Goku's life so there could be some chaos there as well, maybe he actually does manage to kill one of them, or its Chichi who gets the training, or Tao escapes rather than almost dies and so resolves to get strong enough to kill them later.
 
Zam said:
Yeeeahh that was uncool to say the least.


That sounds reasonable and Piccolo did have more advanced training techniques and knowledge of Ki much like Kami did, which I tend to assume it what allowed such immense growth in a single year for the cast members who used/discovered those methods. And yeah, agreed on that front, as noted Chichi was already really strong when we first met her so it'd likely just be experience she needs to keep up, plus she can already shoot a laser via her helmet, maybe that can be its own distinct Ki attack later.

Good insights on the number drawing, I do wonder if Roshi could/would lose if we take his later shown skills (IE bulk up) into consideration as if he gets desperate he may ditch finesse and just bulk up grab and slam them out of the ring. But yeah, regardless the numbers game could make some big differences. Kinda reminds me of a "World champion Yamcha" idea I toyed with once XD If one wanted to make it really random they actually could do a random umber selection themselves.

Hmm, definitely possible, however I also imagine she might want to see her father again at least for a little while given how close they were. However the RR Army could easily get involved with that by encroaching on their lands or the nearby territories and Chichi going to investigate and eventually reuniting with Goku.

Oh wow, I would feel bad for Tenshinhan if Goku and Chichi had a constant sparring partner for those three years.

However, it just occurred to me. Tao. Korin is who trained Goku to be strong enough to not immediately get stomped by Tao and it was only luck that saved Goku's life so there could be some chaos there as well, maybe he actually does manage to kill one of them, or its Chichi who gets the training, or Tao escapes rather than almost dies and so resolves to get strong enough to kill them later.
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Hmm... these insights kind of mesh well with an AU I was toying with a while back. I just love the idea of Chi-Chi as a full time Z-fighter during Dragon Ball. I would say Z as well, but humans really got the short end of the stick on that one.
 
TC9078 said:
Hmm... these insights kind of mesh well with an AU I was toying with a while back. I just love the idea of Chi-Chi as a full time Z-fighter during Dragon Ball. I would say Z as well, but humans really got the short end of the stick on that one.
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Glad you like them! And yeah I'd have loved it if she was more involved myself, provided it was done well.

Yeah that will never not grate on me, I have had tons of ideas and snippets written built around changing that status quo.
 
Zam said:
Glad you like them! And yeah I'd have loved it if she was more involved myself, provided it was done well.

Yeah that will never not grate on me, I have had tons of ideas and snippets written built around changing that status quo.
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Okay, so the main idea I had that got me interested was Chi-Chi, instead of Krillin, dying to Tambourine. Ignoring the possibility of Goku going Super Saiyan here(because that would kinda wreck the story), and Chi-Chi going to Other World and training under King Kai, and learning the Kaioken, before coming back to the lookout and training with Goku until the 23rd Tenkaichi Budokai. Now if only I could find an image of Chi-Chi in a turtle uniform...
 
TC9078 said:
Okay, so the main idea I had that got me interested was Chi-Chi, instead of Krillin, dying to Tambourine. Ignoring the possibility of Goku going Super Saiyan here(because that would kinda wreck the story), and Chi-Chi going to Other World and training under King Kai, and learning the Kaioken, before coming back to the lookout and training with Goku until the 23rd Tenkaichi Budokai. Now if only I could find an image of Chi-Chi in a turtle uniform...
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All things considered I don't see Goku's reaction to Chichi's death being significantly more extreme to his canon reaction to Krillen's. As to Chichi in other world, an intriguing idea, however if I recall everyone killed by Piccolo and co back then got sent into limbo and couldn't move on, plus its a really long trip to King Kai's.
 
Zam said:
Yeah that can be tricky, at times I have utilized Baba and her magic to basically cheat and give characters access to info they wouldn't normally have myself XD
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I mean, one of my friends suggested that to keep up with Super Saiyan, the humans could train to use a x50 Kaioken... but in my mind, even once you can reasonably attain it (which would take a very long time) it's basically Super Saiyan with the stamina drain of Super Saiyan 3. Not really worth it imho.
 
TC9078 said:
I mean, one of my friends suggested that to keep up with Super Saiyan, the humans could train to use a x50 Kaioken... but in my mind, even once you can reasonably attain it (which would take a very long time) it's basically Super Saiyan with the stamina drain of Super Saiyan 3. Not really worth it imho.
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Good ideas and insights on both parts, I tend to think that one could maybe create a "Mastered Kaio Ken" which lessens the stamina drain, or maybe expand on that Spirit Burst idea apparently used by Tenshinhan?

Beyond that, I had one odd headcanon based on a power level list which may or may not have been accurate, i thought it was from the seventh guide. Anyway the basic idea was that once hitting Super Sayian at around the 1 to three million Ki mark, the Sayians body's Ki increase drastically reduces to the point where species like Namekians and humans can actually surpass the Sayians base strength fairly simple.

However due to the presence of Super Sayian and its later iterations and once those states are mastered the user being able to tap into some of that power without transforming it wasn't noticeable. Anyway in that someone like Tenshinhan could get two about ten or even twenty million easier than Goku could after breaking through a wall then add to that with Kaio Ken 10/20 which wouldn't be as taxing.


Other ideas I've had with jsut Kaio Ken have also involved the user combining pre-existing techniques to help cope with the strain. For instance Tenshinhan's body hardening technique that he used against Yamcha in the 22 tournament to make the body tough enough to tolerate the technique for longer.
 
Zam said:
Beyond that, I had one odd headcanon based on a power level list which may or may not have been accurate, i thought it was from the seventh guide. Anyway the basic idea was that once hitting Super Sayian at around the 1 to three million Ki mark, the Sayians body's Ki increase drastically reduces to the point where species like Namekians and humans can actually surpass the Sayians base strength fairly simple.
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I thought that about Zenkai for a while too...

then the Future Trunks arc happened.
 
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