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Diversity in media, how much is sufficient ?

Cthaeth said:
On the other hand, sometimes diversity doesn't work. Making Annie black was a bad idea because she is supposed to be a young white redhead. Making Juliet Jerome in heavy disguise won't work because Romeo and Juliet calls for two Italian teenagers of opposite genders who don't know CPR.
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Nothing intrinsic to any of these characters relies on whiteness. Or sexuality. Or gender.

Well, maybe Annie needs to be a girl. White girl? Nah.

But people can and have done versions of... every mix of Romeo and Juliet you can imagine. From black to gay to trans to robots to dogs.

So, to cut ramblings short, diversity is good, provided it furthers the movie or at least doesn't detract from it. No-one minded that Ronan was black (or, at least, it was seen as a lesser evil) in Guardians, but if Will Smith was cast as Superman in Man of Steel...yeah...people would be pissed.
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Yes, and they would be wrong to be pissed. Certainly Will Smith wouldn't do nearly as terrible a job as the last two Superman actors.
 
Aaron Peori said:
Yes, and they would be wrong to be pissed. Certainly Will Smith wouldn't do nearly as terrible a job as the last two Superman actors.
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This may seem heresy but I personally rate Hancock better than last 2 Superman reboot movies.

My personal favorite Superman is Hernan Rodriquez from Justice League:Gods and Monsters. I think Clark Kent is a great character. But his backgrouns as 1950s small town boy is not very relevant in todays America. You cant get better than a Latino Superman for the archetypical immigrant story about adopted homeland.
 
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Diversity is only truly valuable when it's about minority perspectives being represented in art, as opposed to diversity just as a well meaning but naive thought experiment by white creators.

AKA shit like this.



I mean, it's great that people are willing to have diversity in their work just because they want to. But s character like Ms. Marvel is much more valuable when she's written by an actual Muslim woman and not some moon-eyed agnostic dude daydreaming about what it would be like to be Muslim.
 
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Kokurokoki said:
wait, really? That sounds amazing. :000
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Article:
The Perfect Guy, which starred Michael Ealy (his third $25+ million opening in a row), Sanaa Lathan and Morris Chestnut, is now the 3rd film in a row featuring a predominantly African American leading cast to take #1 at the box office, capping a 5 weekend streak started by Straight Outta Compton and continued by War Room.
 
Aaron Peori said:
Nothing intrinsic to any of these characters relies on whiteness. Or sexuality. Or gender.
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No, but if the origional writer wanted it that way...yeah. I'd be pretty pissed of if I wrote a gay romance and someone turned it into something about race. In any case, race sexuality gender etc. wasn't the point.


Well, maybe Annie needs to be a girl. White girl? Nah.
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In all honesty, I was more pissed about the red hair than anything else. I know black girls with red hair. Would it've killed her to die/wear a wig?

Actually, a wig might be better, but I digress.
But people can and have done versions of... every mix of Romeo and Juliet you can imagine. From black to gay to trans to robots to dogs.
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Every R&J adaption I've seen that deviated from the original was pretty damn awful, so putting in diversity for the sake of putting in diversity generally seems to fall flat on its face.

Just to be clear, shows that have diversity (or at least stray from the beaten track) but do it tastefully (House, Teen Wolf) and still manage to be...well...good, is fantastic in my view. I'm not being a bigot, I'm just saying that, if there is no point in inserting a stereotype of some kind (like the Afrikaans guy in Elysium(and, lets be honest, the "diversity" is usually a stereotype)) is good. Same with shows that do it satirically (The Simpsons being the obvious choice)




Yes, and they would be wrong to be pissed. Certainly Will Smith wouldn't do nearly as terrible a job as the last two Superman actors.
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I dunno...I blame the director more for those movies. But, if Superman has been portrayed as a white guy with black hair and a steroid addiction for 30+ years (I think it's 50 now, but I'm gonna play it safe) and it worked, why would you make him black for the sake of making him black? It won't further the story, the director will look like an idiot, and the fans will be pissed because a classic character has been altered for no other reason than to throw a rather condescending bone at a minority group.



Q99 said:
She was originally a redhead because those were the unadoptable kids of the time- updating to match works in my book.
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O.

Well.

I still thought the movie was crap, but I can let that go now. but that's actually racist in an of itself. Who the hell sees black kids as unadoptable?
 
Cthaeth said:
O.

Well.

I still thought the movie was crap, but I can let that go now. but that's actually racist in an of itself. Who the hell sees black kids as unadoptable?
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Adoption statistics. Which are certainly that way for reasons of racism, which is basically the point. Part of the reason for Annie's existence- again, old and new- is to show how awesome the least-adopted kid demographic is to adopt.
 
Reveen said:
Diversity is only truly valuable when it's about minority perspectives being represented in art, as opposed to diversity just as a well meaning but naive thought experiment by white creators.

AKA shit like this.



I mean, it's great that people are willing to have diversity in their work just because they want to. But s character like Ms. Marvel is much more valuable when she's written by an actual Muslim woman and not some moon-eyed agnostic dude daydreaming about what it would be like to be Muslim.
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I wrote about Ms Marver earlier. Her name is not Pakistani but Indian. Pakistanis and Indians are distinct people with differences going beyond religion. Understanding this is important to writing a Pakistani character as they are not same as muslim Indians. Heck muslim Indians when marrying into Pakistani families get a culture shock and have difficulty adjusting, and vice versa.

She wears a Shalwar Kameez as her costume, which someone of her family background would not. Its like a japanese-american superhero wearing kimono costume. A more realistic Ms Marvel would have a normal costume.

She would also actually look more like a Pakistani girl than an Indian girl. They are ethnically different people who look different. And not just her appearance, the way her shalwar costume is designed it follows the Indian fashion rather the Pakistani version.

Marvel deserves kudos for creating a muslim American superheroes and its a great character overall. But I would keep in mind the characters background is not very well written.

Aaron Peori said:
Article:
The Perfect Guy, which starred Michael Ealy (his third $25+ million opening in a row), Sanaa Lathan and Morris Chestnut, is now the 3rd film in a row featuring a predominantly African American leading cast to take #1 at the box office, capping a 5 weekend streak started by Straight Outta Compton and continued by War Room.
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That is true for domestic audiences but what about overseas. Seen articles mentioning that one big reason executives are risk averse about changing casting is overseas audiences. Apparently non white leads do poorer there.
 
galahad said:
Yeah, as a foreigner I was pretty surprised visiting these cities and seeing how diverse they really are vs in the movies. Hollywood would have you believe New York is as white as an European city.
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Have you visited a European city? Now, some of them are pretty white, there's no question about it, but a lot of major cities, say Paris for example, have a lot of neighbourhoods where white people are far from being a majority.
 
Khaos said:
Have you visited a European city? Now, some of them are pretty white, there's no question about it, but a lot of major cities, say Paris for example, have a lot of neighbourhoods where white people are far from being a majority.
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Have not visited continental Europe yet, just Ireland which seemed very homogenous to me. Is Paris more like big US cities in terms of multi cultural ?
 
galahad said:
Have not visited continental Europe yet, just Ireland which seemed very homogenous to me. Is Paris more like big US cities in terms of multi cultural ?
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I can't say, I've not visited a US large city yet. But large capital cities in Europe have a fairly large non-white population especially in countries where there's a lot of immigration.
 
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