Deus Pater (Exalted/40k)

So going forward, after we take our sabbatical, I think our next three biggest items should be:

(I) Getting the local Imperial Navy squadron on side
This is the most important thing, and we should aim to do it first. The Imperial Navy and its vast affiliate fleet of transport and supply ships is in a real sense the both shield and the fabric of the Imperium. Getting the local squadron on side will be vitally useful, not just in terms of "lol so they don't glass the planet", although that's not irrelevant, but much more importantly in allowing us to fully secure the system, and build a foundation for branching outwards. If we want to so much as visit a local congregation of bishops who have gathered to discuss our recent proclamations, we require their assent, and their help gives us a vastly better chance of our ship not meeting"pirates" on the way.

(II) Going on a tour around the planet, ministering to and healing the masses
The recent rioting has shown that there are still deep divisions on Sanguis, ones that a single act of transcendent rhetoric and inspiring faith, however moving, cannot erase overnight. We've managed to quell the violence, but it does not mean that old fears will be vanquished overnight. Leave that kind of poison to fester, and it will surely end up coming to blight us. So instead, let's use this as an opportunity to practice our skills at bringing people together and defeating hatred across the scale of a whole planet, something we're surely going to need in the future. Let's embark on a rollinh campaign of going through all of our regional capitals, preaching our message, ministering to our flock, and perhaps soothing their hurts and easing their burdens through the laying on of hands and our divine grace. Obviously, we'll make sure that the crowds for every sermon have both normal citizens and twists.

(III) Reaching out to our affiliate organisations on other planets
If we're a major shrine world, then by default we will have links to dozens if not hundreds of orphanages, charitable concerns, monasteries, and various small affiliate shrines on other worlds. This gives us access to a potent intelligence network. Let's use it to see how we're being perceived right now, and what if any reaction there has been in the rest of the Sector.

Also, @Maugan Ra, if you don't mind me asking, what kind of interstellar vessels does the cardinal of Sanguis have access to, if any? As a major Shrine World, our main "industry" is pilgrimages, so I would assume we would have a few Ecclesiarchy owned transports, and/or longstanding links to local chartist families strongly tied to the pilgrim routes. A Sororitas detachment of the size on our world might presumably have their own armed transport as well. But obviously it'd be great to know for sure.
 
[X] The Nameless Angel. A mountain carved into the shape of an angel, reputed to be an anonymous member of the Adeptus Astartes. The sight of his broad wings and noble countenance has always left you feeling inspired and invigorated.

[X]
Bureaucracy. Your experience with Deacon Amelia has given you insight into the mechanisms of finance and the state.
 
[X] The Nameless Angel. A mountain carved into the shape of an angel, reputed to be an anonymous member of the Adeptus Astartes. The sight of his broad wings and noble countenance has always left you feeling inspired and invigorated.

[X] War. Witnessing first hand how a planetary peacekeeping operation is conducted, along with the insight offered by Canoness Galina, has been educational.
 
[X] The Nameless Angel. A mountain carved into the shape of an angel, reputed to be an anonymous member of the Adeptus Astartes. The sight of his broad wings and noble countenance has always left you feeling inspired and invigorated.

[X] Bureaucracy. Your experience with Deacon Amelia has given you insight into the mechanisms of finance and the state.

Teetering between Bureaucracy and War, admittedly, but Bureaucracy is more immediately/assuredly useful. My opinion on the matter is that if we are the one spearheading the war effort, things have gone terribly wrong.
 
[X] The Nameless Angel. A mountain carved into the shape of an angel, reputed to be an anonymous member of the Adeptus Astartes. The sight of his broad wings and noble countenance has always left you feeling inspired and invigorated.

[X] Bureaucracy. Your experience with Deacon Amelia has given you insight into the mechanisms of finance and the state.

Teetering between Bureaucracy and War, admittedly, but Bureaucracy is more immediately/assuredly useful. My opinion on the matter is that if we are the one spearheading the war effort, things have gone terribly wrong.

Given that we are likely going to get some Performance-based Cool Shit to bolster morale/exorcise demons (maybe just via Being Zenith), we will be on the battlefield. Maybe not spearheading, probably blasting sermons atop Titan-sized walking cathedral or something, but still.
 
[X] The Nameless Angel. A mountain carved into the shape of an angel, reputed to be an anonymous member of the Adeptus Astartes. The sight of his broad wings and noble countenance has always left you feeling inspired and invigorated.
 
[X] The Nameless Angel. A mountain carved into the shape of an angel, reputed to be an anonymous member of the Adeptus Astartes. The sight of his broad wings and noble countenance has always left you feeling inspired and invigorated.
[X] Bureaucracy. Your experience with Deacon Amelia has given you insight into the mechanisms of finance and the state.

Probably not that well, which is why I said it would be a great way to get the nearest Blood Angels successor chapter to make a beeline for our world.

Then, once we have the opportunity to speak to them and show them what we are, we'll have just gotten an Astartes chapter or a significant chunk of one as new allies. Boom.
This seems like a point where the finer details of Sanguinus' actions were relevant, so I did a little digging.

Apparently, the mutants Sanguinus massacred were brutish cannibals that outnumbered and constantly threatened the survival of Sanguinus' people. So I think it's pretty likely Sanguinus cared far less about their mutations than the fact they were murdering and eating people. Baal Secundus is an irradiated desert hellscape infested with bioweapons, so mutations are going to be pretty common just by virtue of where you are. Part of what impressed people on Baal about Sanguinus was that his only mutation was his wings. The implication I'm getting from that is mutations were– and probably still are– not rare on Baal. And yet Baal is still the world from which the Blood Angels chapter draws their candidates.

I certainly wouldn't count on it, but we might receive a more reasonable response from the Blood Angels than frothing hatred. Which could actually be a problem. If they're secretly mutant sympathizers, they might go "fuck, he's blowing our cover" and make a show of being shocked, shocked! while secretly trying to figure out the fastest way to get rid of us quietly. Or maybe they seize the moment and just go public, which would be great.

Or maybe this is all idle speculation and the Flesh Tearers are headed our way right now.
 
[X] The Nameless Angel. A mountain carved into the shape of an angel, reputed to be an anonymous member of the Adeptus Astartes. The sight of his broad wings and noble countenance has always left you feeling inspired and invigorated.
[X] Bureaucracy. Your experience with Deacon Amelia has given you insight into the mechanisms of finance and the state.
 
[x] The Nameless Angel. A mountain carved into the shape of an angel, reputed to be an anonymous member of the Adeptus Astartes. The sight of his broad wings and noble countenance has always left you feeling inspired and invigorated.

[X] Bureaucracy. Your experience with Deacon Amelia has given you insight into the mechanisms of finance and the state.
 
This seems like a point where the finer details of Sanguinus' actions were relevant, so I did a little digging.

Apparently, the mutants Sanguinus massacred were brutish cannibals that outnumbered and constantly threatened the survival of Sanguinus' people. So I think it's pretty likely Sanguinus cared far less about their mutations than the fact they were murdering and eating people. Baal Secundus is an irradiated desert hellscape infested with bioweapons, so mutations are going to be pretty common just by virtue of where you are. Part of what impressed people on Baal about Sanguinus was that his only mutation was his wings. The implication I'm getting from that is mutations were– and probably still are– not rare on Baal. And yet Baal is still the world from which the Blood Angels chapter draws their candidates.

I certainly wouldn't count on it, but we might receive a more reasonable response from the Blood Angels than frothing hatred. Which could actually be a problem. If they're secretly mutant sympathizers, they might go "fuck, he's blowing our cover" and make a show of being shocked, shocked! while secretly trying to figure out the fastest way to get rid of us quietly. Or maybe they seize the moment and just go public, which would be great.

Or maybe this is all idle speculation and the Flesh Tearers are headed our way right now.

I get where you're coming from, and it's definitely true that we can't know for sure.

But in all fairness, I think it's hard to look at a founding myth involving the total annihilation of ravening hordes of hideous, cannibalistic mutants and see it as being obviously pro-mutation. Especially given ten thousand years for the original story to be rubbed smooth by time into myth. The people of Baal definitely suffered a higher than average rate of mutation, but this is usually presented as yet another terrible hardship of their world which they overcame through the help of their guardian angel, I think. So on balance think a Blood Angels successor chapter* hearing second-hand about us bringing up their sacred Primarch as a mutant would likely not be thrilled at first.

However, I think that when Ignatius talks to them, this also allows a tremendous opportunity to convince and inspire them.

Remember that Ignatius' doctrine is not that mutation is a positive or happy thing. In many cases, it obviously isn't. Rather his take is very similar to Catharism or Gnosticism; fundamentally, humanity is forced to struggle for goodness in a universe which is inherently hostile, and inherently wicked. We are all broken, all twisted, in our own ways, and mutants and psykers should not be discriminated against because they wear some of their burdens outwardly. Every human being is born in sin, within the grip of Chaos, in a universe which is trying to kill them. Every human being can only attain salvation through the guidance of the Emperor, good works, and the innate power of the human spirit. Salvation is no less astounding achievement for the mutant or the psyker than it is for the cardinal or the Space Marine. The fact that even a single soul may possibly be saved from the universal pyre is itself a miracle which proves the possible salvation of every soul.

Now look again at the story of Sanguinius on Baal Secundus.

A tribe of people find themselves cast adrift on a terrible, harsh world, an irradiated desert that wants to kill them from birth. It has riddled their flesh with hideous cancers and mutations. They are preyed upon by their savage siblings, who have given into their basest natures. Things are bleak. Then a miracle happens. An angel, a son of the Emperor, appears on their world, and though he too is twisted and deformed by it, he soars above it. He guides and leads them in fighting their savage, cannibalistic siblings, and eventually, they defeat them and build a better world. Is that not the perfect allegory for what Ignatius has been preaching all along?

We are all born in a desert. We are all born with death and fallibility already inside us. We all must do battle against the worst versions of ourselves. And we can all overcome, through faith.

That is a message that would really resonate with any chapter descended from the Angel of Baal, I think.



*(And I'd honestly prefer if it was a successor chapter because I think it makes sense that whichever Successor is nearest would hear first, and allows for more uniqueness. But whatever, if the Blood Angels themselves arrive, we may rapidly find we have 30,000 new friends.)
 
[X] The Pilgrim's Path. A series of minor shrines and monasteries, traditionally visited by those who wear masks to preserve their anonymity. Walking the paths as one of the crowds has always filled you with a sense of community and peace, which will allow you to return to your duties appropriately refreshed.

[X] Bureaucracy. Your experience with Deacon Amelia has given you insight into the mechanisms of finance and the state.

as though the state of the flesh could have anything more than tangential connection to the quality of the soul within.

Well the existence of Chaos Spawn seems to disagree with that assertion. The existence of mutation at birth seem irrelevent to the quality of the soul, mutation that are acquired later can be the result of the corruption.
 
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Well the existence of Chaos Spawn seems to disagree with that assertion. The existence of mutation at birth seem irrelevant to the quality of the soul, mutation that are acquired later can be the result of the corruption.

This is true.

Notably though, both entirely "pure" born humans or mutants can end up as Chaos Spawn, if they make particularly bad choices, or suffer particularly horrible misfortune. Mutants often end up with a bit of a head start, both because they can have preexisting issues and because of the poor treatment which can lead them to embrace Chaos out of tragically understandable resentment. But fundamentally, it is a fate that can befall anyone, which I think underlines the idea Ignatius has that all humans are fundamentally afflicted by sin Chaos, and all of them have to persevere against their fallen natures to attain salvation, through the grace of the Emperor.
 
There are also the later generation Tyranid hybrids who as far as I know can have a number of mutations and resemble "normal" mutants. They are certainly beyond redemption though I suspect the theological answer to that is pretty simple, they were never humans to begin with. Still, seems like something that could become a problem later on if we really push for "mutant rights".
 
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There are also the later generation Tyranid hybrids who as far as I know can have a number of mutations and resemble "normal" mutants. They are certainly beyond redemption though suspect the theological answer to that is pretty simple, they were never humans to begin with. Still, seems like something that could become a problem later on if we really push for "mutant rights".
Bit of a dumb question (not particularly versed in the minutiae of 40k lore) but do Genestealers fall under this category?

But yeah that's an important distinction to make... bur yeah I agree with you, if they want nothing more than the ruin of humanity and are inhuman in origin it's pretty clear cut...?
 
[X] Bureaucracy. Your experience with Deacon Amelia has given you insight into the mechanisms of finance and the state.

In the grim darkness of the 40th Millenium there is only... paperwork.
 
[X] Bureaucracy. Your experience with Deacon Amelia has given you insight into the mechanisms of finance and the state.
 
Vote Called.

Bureaucracy and the Nameless Angel win by a significant margin (crushing in the first case. Apparently you're all really excited about being really good at paperwork)

You are surprised? Bureaucracy charms are freaking coke laced catnip to SV. Seriously, in any discussion of Exalted, someone will eventually gush about how crazy and OP bureaucracy charms are.
 
Theologically speaking, there are probably three main arguments for where people with heritable mutations come from (Chaos mutations later in life are pretty obvious in where they come from):

1.) Punishment of parents
2.) Punishment of past sins via reincarnation
3.) Predestination

Predestination is obviously deep in Calvinist theology of "those the Emperor has elected to save shall be known by the expressions of their purity and piety" and I don't really have an adequate answer to that even though I know there is explicit theological pushback by non-Calvinists.

Reincarnation is probably an idea present within certain strands of the Imperial Cult, but probably not very "mainstream", and the argument there is that those souls are probably the ones most in need of the sort of salvation that pyres don't bring.

So that brings us to what I think is canonically the most accepted idea: mutation of children springs from the sins of the parents. Very Christian Original Sin in flavour there.

But here's the trick. This implies that sin is transferable. And there is a lot that one can do with that. Possibly my favorite there is that one can point out that in a world like Sanguis the mutation comes not from the sins of the mutants or their parents but the sins of the ruling classes, who essentially scrape off the physical manifestations of their sins and let it rain down on those poorer than them even while their souls rot. I know that in religions like Judaism and Islam with purity directives that if someone forces you to break kosher or halal it is their fault for the uncleanliness caused. This includes not just forcing pork down their throats, but say in a siege where the only supplies left are unclean foods it is the fault of the besiegers that have brought this about. So too can the point be made that if a person is forced by circumstances to consume unclean food and live in unclean conditions it is not their fault that their bodies twist up, but the fault of those who made these the only options.

In a wider sense one can also point out that this 'karmic scrapping' is responsible for many of the ills of the Imperium. The upper classes shed the physical manifestation of their sins, keeping their bodies pure, but multiply the weight upon their souls in doing so. Rotted, wicked souls hiding behind smiling, unblemished faces.
 
Theologically speaking, there are probably three main arguments for where people with heritable mutations come from (Chaos mutations later in life are pretty obvious in where they come from):

1.) Punishment of parents
2.) Punishment of past sins via reincarnation
3.) Predestination

Predestination is obviously deep in Calvinist theology of "those the Emperor has elected to save shall be known by the expressions of their purity and piety" and I don't really have an adequate answer to that even though I know there is explicit theological pushback by non-Calvinists.

Reincarnation is probably an idea present within certain strands of the Imperial Cult, but probably not very "mainstream", and the argument there is that those souls are probably the ones most in need of the sort of salvation that pyres don't bring.

So that brings us to what I think is canonically the most accepted idea: mutation of children springs from the sins of the parents. Very Christian Original Sin in flavour there.

But here's the trick. This implies that sin is transferable. And there is a lot that one can do with that. Possibly my favorite there is that one can point out that in a world like Sanguis the mutation comes not from the sins of the mutants or their parents but the sins of the ruling classes, who essentially scrape off the physical manifestations of their sins and let it rain down on those poorer than them even while their souls rot. I know that in religions like Judaism and Islam with purity directives that if someone forces you to break kosher or halal it is their fault for the uncleanliness caused. This includes not just forcing pork down their throats, but say in a siege where the only supplies left are unclean foods it is the fault of the besiegers that have brought this about. So too can the point be made that if a person is forced by circumstances to consume unclean food and live in unclean conditions it is not their fault that their bodies twist up, but the fault of those who made these the only options.

In a wider sense one can also point out that this 'karmic scrapping' is responsible for many of the ills of the Imperium. The upper classes shed the physical manifestation of their sins, keeping their bodies pure, but multiply the weight upon their souls in doing so. Rotted, wicked souls hiding behind smiling, unblemished faces.
I think we just found the first radical philosophy of St Ignatius the Forgiver
 
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