Deterministic Chaos: An Unraveled Tapestry Quest

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well that depends on your perspective of superficial I get the feeling this is a setting where Casaba howitzer is considered as workable point defence, hell I won't be surprised if some in the setting decides to make a Casaba version Phalanx CWIS .

As MJ12 noted, standard defensive tech includes things like your warp bubble (bends space around you, used for short range superluminal transit but can also warp the pathways of projectiles), mirrorfields (perfect albedo, so they reflect 100% of incoming energy with no bleedthrough). For physical projectiles, assuming you can't just evade or deflect them you also have the option to disintegrate them at the subatomic level.

Casaba howitzers? Antimatter warhead missiles? Bomb pumped lasers in the terawatt range? Relativistic kinetic kill projectiles fired at .999c? Those weapons are basically about as effective as a paper dart if you can't take out the active defences. This is a setting where people use nuclear weapons as toys.
 
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As MJ12 noted, standard defensive tech includes things like your warp bubble (bends space around you, used for short range superluminal transit but can also warp the pathways of projectiles), mirrorfields (perfect albedo, so they reflect 100% of incoming energy with no bleedthrough).

Casaba howitzers? Antimatter warhead missiles? Bomb pumped lasers in the terawatt range? Relativistic kinetic kill projectiles fired at .999999c? Those weapons are basically the equivalent of a paper dart if you can't take out the active defences.
Well, unless you use them as a delivery system for viruses like how lasers are used.
 
Drones
Besides other AVs which I understand are rare post-Collapse, what kind of opponents and threats we might expect most commonly, and in what kind of numbers usually?

The most common space combatants are Drones. Drones are called drones for historical reasons - they descend from the autonomous kill vehicles of pre-Empire space combat. Despite being called drones, they are not always unmanned - many drones have actual cockpits and space for pilots, although other variants may have dedicated internal cognition/awareness systems (sapient or nonsapient).

The difference between a drone and an AV is that the drone does not have a transit drive, which means that it cannot cross significant interstellar distances unaided. However, almost all void-combat drones have warp drives, like AVs, which allow them to maneuver at superluminal velocities. The lack of a transit drive and the deprioritization of endurance allows drones to be built significantly smaller and lighter. On the flipside, the limited maneuverability of a drone means that they almost never carry the same self-sustaining logistics of an AV, and their smaller size (because if you're building a drone that big, the opportunity cost of adding self-sustainment and a transit drive are significantly reduced) limits their payload and defenses. Drones tend to be significantly faster than AVs in short bursts but suffer faster warp drive degradation than AVs - even without the transit drive an AV will beat them in any real contest of distance. Most drones measure in the low tens of meters in their widest dimension, and are designed for short- or medium-range combat, at lightseconds to tens of lightminutes of range. The exception is bomber drones, which carry stand-off weapons capable of hitting at longer ranges of light-hours, light-days, or even, for the largest and most potent, light-years. They thus generally use speed and maneuverability, as well as their small size (and thus small sensors profile) to get in close and engage at closer ranges.

Drones are deployed in numbers - many AVs will carry the capacity to launch and retrieve a number of them, with dedicated carrier AVs often having an order of magnitude more launch/rearmament/repair/retrieval capacity. They are viable combatants in their own right when deployed in swarms and allowed to network with each other to augment each others' defenses and offensive abilities, but are even more dangerous when acting as spotters and decoys for an AV. There are numerous different drone variants, with many large corporations having their own drone lines (and many new ones coming out of post-Collapse polities). A list of rough drone classifications is provided below:

Drone Classes
Although most drones are put into rough categories, these categories are often more based on use and loadout than the drone's type and design. Many drones have at least some modularity and customization capability, permitting them to be reconfigured for multiple roles and multiple uses with the right supplemental drivers and attachments. Other, typically more advanced, drones possess sophisticated multirole capability and can operate in many of these roles at once.
  • Fighter drones are the most common and varied form of drone - the closest to the direct offspring of exoatmospheric autonomous kill vehicles, although this is much like saying that the Empire baseline is the direct offspring of primordial bacteria which evolved in chemical soup. Fighter drones are warp-capable close-in fighters. In superluminal conflict, fighter drones are used as part of a point-defense screen, their infowarfare systems programmed to augment their signature and seed false data into enemy sensors to attract fire, their short-range weapons used only in interceptions of either incoming missiles or their fighter escorts. Fighter drones shine in subluminal combat, where their short-range batteries can be employed to devastating effect - and with their warp drives configured for high sprint speed at the cost of relatively low endurance, even in engagements spanning lightyears of distance, fighters can intercept and force subluminal engagements.
    • Dogfighters are generally on the smaller size for fighter drones. Dogfighters are dedicated low-cost close-engagement platforms, with the minimal necessary superluminal sensors to track and intercept another target, warp interdict capability, and dedicated close-range weapons. Dogfighters are in their element when enemies are forced to bleed speed and engage them in subluminal dogfights, due to their interference-resisting warp drives giving them a maneuvering advantage in close engagements, their excellent shielding, and their exclusively close-range armaments. Dogfight drones are also useful for commando support because of their heavy armoring/shielding and excellent close-in weapons, and an assault voidcruiser is likely to carry a complement of dogfight drones to ensure far more vulnerable infantry support drones are protected against enemy ambushers and remaining defenders.
    • Strike Fighters are fighters designed for medium-range engagement, carrying longer-range weapons, superior sensors and networking, heavier offensive infowarfare suites and defensive jammers/decoy dispensers, sacrificing close-in firepower, drive stability, regeneration, and shielding/armoring. Strike fighters are often multirole and capable of being credible combatants in a dogfight due to their generally larger size compared to dogfighters, but are cost-inefficient in such engagements.
    • Heavy Fighters are massive close/medium range specialist drones which are designed to take on entire smaller fighter drone wings and come out on top. Heavy fighters are hard to replace in combat time and thus generally used for defensive screens rather than offensive operations, as they can fulfill much of the same role as a defender drone - some FORCE/COMBINED battlegroups preferred a combination of decoy drones and heavy fighters rather than defender drones because a heavy fighter's more sustainable sprint speeds and greater independence made them more versatile and capable of long-range offensive operations, and their heavier defenses were potent tools against dogfighters which breached the defensive cordon.
  • Bomber drones are larger warp-capable drones designed to carry superluminal ordnance, giving them long-range strike capability. Bomber drones can engage targets - which might include other drones - at medium to long ranges, but the size and power requirements of superluminal weaponry make them extremely dependent on logistics support from AVs or other platforms. Bombers are generally poorly defended - they expect to evade or spoof incoming ordnance as they engage from light-months to light-years away, and the sort of weapons capable of traveling those distances and intercepting incoming drones will far exceed the structural and systems integrity limits of a small drone platform even on a glancing hit.
    • Fighter/Bombers are bombers designed with credible close to medium range performance characteristics - they possess heavily reinforced, interference-resistant warp drives, additional subluminal and medium-range defensive weapons, and additional armoring/shielding.
    • Repeaters are offensive infowarfare bombers - their "payload" is a network node that permits allied infowarfare units/gestalts/suites to operate through them with reduced latency time and increased signal strength, as well as induction effectors which allow them to upload lethal memetic payloads to uncooperative targets, rather than forcing infowarfare operators to work through architecture hacks and basilisk-code inserts through enemy sensors data.
    • Heavy Bombers are effectively multirole or fire support AVs without transit drives - they carry sufficient long-range ordnance to wound a hostile AV even through defenses while also having sufficient defensive systems and armaments to effectively self-escort in combat situations. The only problem with heavy bombers is the difficulty in deploying sufficient numbers of them and their effective irreplaceability in combat situations. Heavy bombers are not only irreplaceable in combat time, destroyed heavy bomber drones are difficult to reconstruct during the course of an operation.
  • Defender drones are protective drones equipped with medium- to long-range anti-missile defensive weaponry (which can also be used against incoming enemy drones), warp-interdictor systems, and jamming. Defender drones play an invaluable part in protecting a battlegroup from incoming superluminal ordnance by deploying additional decoy drones, providing interception fire, and even using false-signal mimic systems and their own sprint maneuverability to suicide-intercept incoming munitions as a last-ditch option.
  • Decoy drones are equipped with holographic signature-mimicry arrays covering both subluminal and superluminal sensors, high-power (but high visibility) jamming emitters, and warp drives with the capability of mimicking AV signatures. Decoy drones therefore fulfill two roles - first, they degade enemy accuracy at long range by interfering with drone and missile sensors. Second, they will hopefully seduce enemy munitions into targeting them instead of the AV they seek to protect. Decoy drones range from extremely low-fidelity, low-cost jamming platforms to near-perfect mimics - costly to construct, but easily earning their keep when they absorb an incoming missile meant for a far more expensive AV.
  • Sensor drones include long-range spotter-drones that provide improved targeting data over lightyear+ distances, early warning drones that provide long-range ordnance and target lock alerts, and oversight/command drones which augment drone operations. Dedicated sensor drones, unlike other drones, use most of their payload volume for sensors systems and thus can provide far better targeting and intelligence information - as long as they are defended against infowarfare and enemy munitions. Although sensor drones will hopefully never have to fire defensive weapons (and some, in fact, lack defensive weaponry entirely) their role in reducing battlefield chaos is invaluable.
  • Invader drones are drones designed to support commando operations. Invader drones cover a wide variety of possible classes:
    • Spawners are drones that carry displacement beacons to commando voicruisers and/or internal matter-printers for commando use, allowing them to deploy large numbers of commandos and supporting drones into combat. The extremely high unit attrition rate in commando warfare mean that without spawners, most commando operations would be difficult to sustain for any length of time.
    • Gunship drones are evolved from the melding of close air support and armored vehicle as early Empire technology advanced enough that flight became trivial and the difference between a tank and close air support (and eventually, the difference between a tank and an intrasystem spacecraft) became increasingly academic. Gunship drones are at their simplest dogfight drones without warp drives. However, even more specialized gunship drone designs sacrifice even more of their speed, sensors, and maneuverability to reduce their size and expense. As they are used in engagements in and near megastructures and planets, sacrificing warp drives reduces cost significantly but does not meaningfully increase their vulnerability in the deployments they see. Gunships are vulnerable but extremely expendable, and in their desired combat mileu they can often trade evenly with dogfight drones.
    • Remotes are small (the largest are merely a few dozen centimeters wide, and the smallest are measured in tens of millimeters) drones assigned to commando squads or individual commandos for various low-level tactical support uses. These microdrones are not piloted - they are instead slaved to their operator's psyche and run by adaptive, non-sapient combat software wired into the operator's conscious and subconscious tactical psyche. Remotes can be used as weapons platforms, repair/medical systems, infowarfare aids (either hacking, defensive counterhacking or sensors/reconnaissance/jamming), or personal point-defense.
  • Superfighters are a derivation of Elite technology with offloaded components and internal compression-volumes to radically increase their capacity. Despite their name, they are a combination of high-end fighter and high-end bomber drone, with overwhelming lethality at any range. A superfighter squadron deployed by a multirole black ops AV is likely armed and defended about as well, collectively, as a lower-end military AV - but their extreme expense tends to make superfighters valuable and difficult to replace. Like heavy bombers, superfighter complements are nearly impossible to replace in combat time and are difficult to rebuild quickly enough for many operations.
 
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Like, I guess you might see casaba howitzers... being used as the equivalent of nerf guns.

Need a fun and stimulating present to give to your child? Look no further than BIGFun's NukeBlasters (tm)!
 
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Like, I guess you might see casaba howitzers... being used as the equivalent of nerf guns.

Need a fun and stimulating present to give to your child? Look no further than BIGFun's NukeBlasters (tm)!

The Penitence believe that there is a vital role that Casaba Howitzers and bomb-pumped X-ray lasers play in the resolution of intractable disputes. If you can't agree on who this planet and its resources (probably processing power from citizens, most of the time) belong to, build a bunch of antimatter-powered torchships armed with nuclear weapons and lasers, agree on a battlespace of a few AUs, livestream it to an audience, and let's fuckin go. If you get annihilated in a burst of gamma radiation or something, well, that's just life, make sure to back up before participating.

Actually a lot of polities do that because proportionality is important, the Penitence are just extra-enthused about it.

Or if you really want to murder large numbers of people but don't want to spend real resources doing it, you can carpet-bomb a place with antimatter-initiated fusion bombs.

Invariant weapons are still very dangerous to a lot of things that exist in the sector (doubly so if you back it up with infowarfare resources), it just so happens any serious military hardware is also basically invulnerable to a lot of things that exist in the sector.
 
@MJ12 Commando you mentioned info warfare and viruses plenty of times, I assume that said viruses don't just infect computer but local reality HORUS style and even "mundane" viruses are digital super predators that could brick the equivalent of our internet in a few seconds.
 
@MJ12 Commando you mentioned info warfare and viruses plenty of times, I assume that said viruses don't just infect computer but local reality HORUS style and even "mundane" viruses are digital super predators that could brick the equivalent of our internet in a few seconds.

Seconds? Only if they were playing with their prey.

You have to understand, the Empire was so advanced that they effectively figured out how to turn Space Itself into interactable computer code. Physics applied only in so far as they thought it to be entertaining to do so, and no more. Actual Infowar is trying to figure out what specific intrusion protection your opponent is making use of and often comes in the form of false vacuum collapses to ping a literal wall of fire for distortions that suggest contact spaces to attack with. Viruses can literally manifest into reality and aggressively tear down your faraday cage so it can get at your airgapped data.

Unravelled Tapestry is a fever dream where technology has wrapped around into magic, More than once, and actually came back some of the way it came to get some milk and cookies and decided to chill out at the kitchen table for a while instead of heading back to its room.
 
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Seconds? Only if they were playing with their prey.

Well I did say mundane computer virus which l define as totally non-sapient/ sentient program that harms its host device by running malicious non architecture related code.

Like the in setting equivalent of a Stone Age knife (as in sharp pieces of broken stone used as a knife and not one of those fancy hand shaped ones) a nice conversation starter but totally inadequate as a weapon.

Like, in all likelihood, said viruses would still crash our internet as soon it uploaded.


Also I suspect this setting equivalent of AD Ware would be a living hell to the unfortunate soul's infection with it, with symptoms ranging from Futurama style dream intrusion to a malicious consciousness subtly manipulating it's host subconscious to sign up to Sword Gear connected, The Empire's Prémare MMO that countr to unverified rumours doesn't use stoen code from the inferior product Blade Craft Online, reserve you're spot today.
 
[X] Atesia Prime
[X] Close Range

I obviously have to vote for Atesian kabilae for metatextual reasons.

Plus it sounds like a Higaaran vibe of combat archaeology, which I dig.
An expedition of desert kobolds venturing into the deep hellish wildspace and docking enough salvage corvettes to reactivate a megafort, which then serves as a hyperdense anchor of reality in deep chaos.

Besides, if we want a dragon cult, why not kobolds.
Okay yes I know it's not that kind of dragon. It's right in the update.


(The combat range vote is to facilitate ripping and tearing in a more decisive fashion)
 
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Well I did say mundane computer virus which l define as totally non-sapient/ sentient program that harms its host device by running malicious non architecture related code.

Like the in setting equivalent of a Stone Age knife (as in sharp pieces of broken stone used as a knife and not one of those fancy hand shaped ones) a nice conversation starter but totally inadequate as a weapon.

Like, in all likelihood, said viruses would still crash our internet as soon it uploaded.

If by "mundane viruses" you mean "not actually summoning daemons or hacking universal constants" you're not correct. Most of these sorts of intrusion programs are going to be specialist penetration aids for military equipment, designed to degrade or destroy specific models of defensive or offensive system after being primed with a proper attack surface and interface method, and thus would have no effect on the modern internet because it simply isn't designed or intended to destroy primitive global telecommunications networks. Intrusion in Tapestry is not really fire and forget, you don't just upload virus.exe and call it a day, but you need to actively monitor the opfor responses, keep deploying new intrusion tools as the opposition shuts down lines of attack to keep the pressure on, and make sure to expend your successful intrusions at a time when they're effective but also not waste them by letting them lay idle until a scan finds and removes the backdoors you set up.

If by "mundane virus" you mean "totally not Architecture-related" that's invariant technology and invariant technology is fundamentally not magical, it's basically explicable, plausible (if very advanced) technology. In which case, it doesn't do anything to the internet either for the same reason - it's written on a completely different code base, with completely different targets. Invariant technology is technology that doesn't rely on the alteration of physical constants for its production or function, which means that it's basically high-end hard sci-fi. Expanse meets Eclipse Phase is a pretty okay shorthand for what you can achieve with it.
 
Advancement Classifications: Invariant-Tech, Stable/Synthesized-Tech, and Metric-Tech
Advancement Classifications: Invariant-Tech, Stable/Synthesized-Tech, and Metric-Tech

Technology in the Empire (and in the post-Collapse) has developed in three broad categories - invariant technology, stable/synthesized technology, and metric technology, in roughly increasing order of advancement, sophistication, and expense (at least for 'mature' post-Collapse polities, the Empire, and its [former] rivals).

Invariant Technology
Invariant Technology is the most intuitive and familiar form of technology - technology which relies on the invariant physical laws defining the unmodified universe. Although you could in theory use it to describe anything from levers and rocks to space elevators and swarm-type megastructures, even after the Collapse the phrase is generally a reference to the ubiquitous pinnacle of physics-compliant technological advancement that the Empire reached long ago. Invariant technology was by far the most common basis for infrastructure even during the Empire era, for cost-effectiveness reasons. Because invariant technology does not require formatted space and extensive computational/metric-altering support, its cost is essentially trivial for all but the largest projects. Invariant technology includes highly compact and efficient fusion reactors and drives, antimatter warheads and torchdrives, sophont uploads, nanoengineered materials two orders of magnitude stronger than their naturally occurring equivalents, efficient solid-state lasers, coilguns/railguns, and other systems. Most habitable stations and cities are primarily constructed from invariant technology because supporting sophont life and society needs little more.

Stable/Synthesized Technology
S-tech, also known as stable technology or synthesized technology, is technology reliant on exotic forms of matter - monopoles, negative matter, cosmic strings, strangelets, and other oddities that are stable under the invariant laws of physics but for whatever reason are not naturally occurring except in negligible amounts. The original S-tech invention was the warp drive, which was used for early-era interstellar travel. Without Architecture at that time, the negative energy/negative matter needed to build a warp drive had to be painstakingly synthesized by immense particle accelerators. With the Empire and the invention of Architecture, synthesis of these materials became far cheaper, if not completely trivial (in fact, the earliest applications of Architecture were to make pockets of space that might have been inimical to life and the existence of conventional baryonic matter but allowed for the easy synthesis of exotic matter). S-tech can accomplish things which were seen as impossible, such as traveling faster than light or withstanding the fury of the atom unchained.

Metric Technology
As Architecture advanced in sophistication and precision, it was eventually possible to selectively and rapidly alter the properties of a space, which opened up a whole new set of tools for manipulating the universe. Metric technology is technology which only works because of editing local Architecture. Metric technology is technically ubiquitous as well - Architecture and souls are both metric technology, imposing programmability and edit permissions on space. M-tech is generally heavily reliant on having that substrate of programmable reality underneath it, and thus will often drastically differ in function depending on the hostility or lack thereof of the local Architecture. However, military units carry a local-area stable Architecture and a projection system known as a reality engine, which, in concert with information warfare against local Architecture, can permit the use of their weapons and defenses while in hostile Architecture. That said, reliance on reality engines and permission-elevation hacks is extremely straining, and the defender in an engagement will generally hold a severe advantage.

S-tech and M-tech are both critical components of a modern AV or any military hardware. You can sort of fight back against an AV or drone squadron with 'pure' S-tech if you have the knowledge of what you're dealing with and what you need to fight, but you'll generally be at a significant disadvantage (and pure S-tech is often more 'expensive' than hybrids if you have access to decent M-tech as well). If you're dealing with a modern AV with invariant technology, your chances are basically nil.
 
You know looking at this thread I'm bad at gokking scales in this setting.

A lot of the underlying design for Tapestry was specifically to avoid a lot of fairly common space opera worldbuilding tropes and to remix the ones I kept, which unfortunately makes it a bit less legible as a side effect, so it's not a big deal. One of the reasons I'm willing to answer questions here and comment a bunch on the worldbuilding is to bridge the legibility gap.
 
ONCE THE ROCKETS COME UP
WHO CARES WHERE THEY COME DOWN
DIRECT ALL COMPLAINTS TO THE COMPLAINS OFFICE

..."that's not my department, says Wernher von Braun."

Also, requesting that one of our Decoy drone lines be called 'Complaints Office.'



Anyway, I'm voting for 'Short Range' to better exploit our ship's whole vanishing act. We picked this particular shtick, so let's focus on exploiting our stealth in a way that gives us a unique, hard-to-copy niche that other AVs can't easily fill.

[X] Short Range
 
A lot of the underlying design for Tapestry was specifically to avoid a lot of fairly common space opera worldbuilding tropes and to remix the ones I kept, which unfortunately makes it a bit less legible as a side effect, so it's not a big deal. One of the reasons I'm willing to answer questions here and comment a bunch on the worldbuilding is to bridge the legibility gap.

Not gonna lie, that feels like the major narrative issue at hand. The setting reads like a deconstruction of classic space opera, and the problem of relying on deconstruction is that if it works you're left with, well...nothing. There's only so many times the audience can get wowed by things being BIG!/FAST!/kewl! before the sense of wonder gets old, and repetition about how posthuman, alien morality is the name of the game removes any sources of personal conflict right off the bat. Regular reminders about how little a human life is worth means that there's no incentive to value them being lost, and the apocalypse already having passed through means that any BBEGs on the horizon fall flat before they can even get around to Killing Everyone, Take Two. It reminds me a bit of Fallout, just without the wacky retrofuture vibes, and Fallout as a series was always sustained by its interesting secondary characters and fun side stories rather than the fairly dull main quests ("The apocalypse is about to HAVE ANOTHER APOCALYPSE! Are you a bad enough dude to shoot the President or a suitable stand-in?" repeated ad nauseum). It feels like a narrative void so far, one that's yet to be properly filled.

I'm holding out hope for some interesting characters among the gameworld itself that we've supposedly been hired to protect. The explorers who've hired us seem far too much like us protagonists to generate much engaging interpersonal conflict, but "a bunch of people from different fantastical timelines suddenly having to face an uncomfortable new reality" sounds like an interesting story in the making. Squabbles over salvage rights between a couple dueling petty post-apocalypse kingdoms doesn't have the same hook to it, y'know?
 
Adhoc vote count started by GAWR on Apr 11, 2023 at 8:55 PM, finished with 52 posts and 19 votes.


Here's the current votes.
 
Squabbles over salvage rights between a couple dueling petty post-apocalypse kingdoms doesn't have the same hook to it, y'know?
Well post apocalypse wold take on a different meaning in this setting since apparently pre fall Eclipse Phase sol would be regarded as third world if at that.

Edit: To avoid triple posting here but @MJ12 Commando is There any normal human in the setting if only as a aesthetic choice.
 
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It feels like a narrative void so far, one that's yet to be properly filled.

One of the experimental ideas I had for the quest was building chargen into the starting narrative more closely, which is one of the reasons things are kind of slow-going here.

As to the setting in general, one of the reasons for the setting setup is to emphasize certain drivers for conflict while deemphasizing others. There's still a lot of functional humanity in the Empire's successors even if they're operating in very different bodies and making decisions on a quite large scale.

Compared to Fallout - which is post apocalyptic and has that sort of hardscrabble life in the close future of the civilization ending event - Tapestry is more post-post-apocalypse, where functional nation-states and international organization is now a thing again, and people are building new things rather than primarily reliant on scavenging the old world. The Collapse defines the start of history but in some ways it's an origin mythos more than an apocalypse, given the timelessness of the Empire.

Edit: To avoid triple posting here but @MJ12 Commando is There any normal human in the setting if only as a aesthetic choice.

There is at least one mostly normal human in the setting. There are a lot of people who superficially look like normal humans, whose bodies are known as the Imperial Baseline or just baselines because the Empire was culturally heavily influenced by posthumanity, but genetically the baseline is essentially a clean sheet project that happens to look like a human being and has significantly altered biology for reduced maintenance, increased longevity, and improved adaptability.

If you have access to multiple bodies to use in real time, you may choose a vitruvian-styled body (which is the formal name for the human bodyplan) for use as a social thing, which is where the Star Trek kind of rubber forehead aliens actually come from - they're Vitruvians which people are using to attend formal affairs in environments and spaces catering for humans.
 
but genetically the baseline is essentially a clean sheet project that happens to look like a human being and has significantly altered biology for reduced maintenance, increased longevity, and improved adaptability.
So even the most "normal" person is this setting still counts as a post human demi god. Good to know
 
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@MJ12 Commando I know this a stupid question but Is it a good plan would it be if we upload our mind into the AV system ? I wouldn't be surprised if it's a drawn bad end for us by the way you described the AV's system architecture, and that's assuming it a non dragon tech AV...
 
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