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Daggerfall in SPAAACE - Starfield

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Ironanvil1 said:
And the rest of the setting doesn't evidence the sort of population to create and sustain that sort of xanadu. Neon would make sense (sorta) as a neutral free for all tradeport between an otherwise Cold War UC and FC, corporations placing their HQs there to exploit its political position.
It doesn't make sense as the apparently most populous settlement of the FC.
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Based on what? First you say that people would be settling random planets, now it's "oh there isn't population to settle a single settlement with already established infastructure"?

You can't have "people would settle elsewhere" and "not enough population" at the same time.

Like, we run into people all the time, of both UC, Freestar and independent. The population of Settled Systems might not be in tens of billions, but it clearly reaches high millions at least, possible billions.
 
Ironanvil1 said:
Except the rest of the Space US doesn't exist. Space Vegas is just dangling there, unattached.
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I'd argue that space US does exist in the form of the United Colonies and Freestar Collective. I guess if you take everything depicted in the game very literally you'd come to the conclusion that there's not enough people to support a city with a tourism based economy, but that very much goes against the spirit of the game.
 
Mandemon said:
Based on what? First you say that people would be settling random planets, now it's "oh there isn't population to settle a single settlement with already established infastructure"?

You can't have "people would settle elsewhere" and "not enough population" at the same time.
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Wait, why not? Those aren't in conflict, they're outright causally related.
 
I feel that's my general vibe of the major factions of SF: "What if America in Space but it's just Texas and California? Sorry, Snake Taliban is DLC."

Obviously, Bethesda is an American company, but it still feels kinda lame there's no real feeling of other nations fleeing Earth. No Asia, no Russia, no Middle East, no Africa, not even Europe. While they've done a good job putting in a bunch of varied accents, it all feels kinda shallow. Where's the communists or the monarchists or the Republics of Dave of the galaxy? Where's the weirdo cults? Vaa'run is like one cult, you'd think there'd be more weirdo cults around. There's wakizashis around but no scimitars? That sorta thing.

It all feels a bit too safe and contributes to the feeling that the galaxy is a lot smaller than it is.
 
I guess Project Starseed could be called a cult, albeit one with a scientific pretence, and at least some of them seem to have flirted with monarchism, but the proper 'cultists', that is the people that ran the Project rather the clones they created, are all dead.
 
Hykal94 said:
I feel that's my general vibe of the major factions of SF: "What if America in Space but it's just Texas and California? Sorry, Snake Taliban is DLC."

Obviously, Bethesda is an American company, but it still feels kinda lame there's no real feeling of other nations fleeing Earth. No Asia, no Russia, no Middle East, no Africa, not even Europe. While they've done a good job putting in a bunch of varied accents, it all feels kinda shallow. Where's the communists or the monarchists or the Republics of Dave of the galaxy? Where's the weirdo cults? Vaa'run is like one cult, you'd think there'd be more weirdo cults around. There's wakizashis around but no scimitars? That sorta thing.

It all feels a bit too safe and contributes to the feeling that the galaxy is a lot smaller than it is.
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The weird part is while they have significant ethnic diversity with blended name origin and new names, all the cultures seem to have disappeared. Even ones that have been existing for far longer than the time gap from today to Starfield. There is I believe one character who is of an Abrahamic religion - and he's an Easter Egg. It's an easily missed follow on quest on the ECS Constant.

The one concrete culture is archaic American West. Which is a niche subculture today.
 
I admit when I saw that Ryujin (and subsidiaries) was a rather generic amoral corporation, I actually felt relieved, because I had been expecting "cyberpunk" from the general aesthetic of Neon, and the cyberpunk genre has not been good at representing East Asian cultures.

I accept that others might feel disappointed instead.
 
Ford Prefect said:
I'm not sure it's much of a jump from 'libertarian defence pact' to 'corporate dystopia' lol

Neon as we see it in the modern day is a the end result of a kind of hydraulic despotism along with all the original 'colonists' being employees. No one really got any say in the matter when the Bayu family started empire building.
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I simply think that the setting lacks the density to translate a despotic capitalist into a cyberpunk city.

Like Neon should look more like a cartel town then night city.

Or more like paradiso really. Like bein super crime central doesn't really attract tourism you know, which sees to be one of neon's dominant selling points.

Mandemon said:
Except there is.

A lot of people working for the Xenofresh are going to be living on that rig. That means there will be smaller establishments, bars and stores, selling stuff for them. People running those places will be living on the rig too. Then you get Ruijin coming and building Trade Tower, a tower exclusively for corporations to conduct their business. And since they are conducting their business on Neon, people are going to be living on Neon.

Not everyone is a self-made frontier pioneer with a ship and enough resources to setup a new home while hoping no spacers or Crimson Fleet or Va'ruun zealots find you.

Just because there are planets, doesn't magically mean people will automatically move to them. We can see this how our society has kept urbanizing today. There is plenty of room to build, but where does everyone keep moving to? Cities, where all the stuff is.
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This doesn't justify the implied density of Neon. Neon would absolutely be a shitty place without seeming like a megacity in a setting that really doesn't support that kind of settlement.

Adloquium said:
It's fairly clearly explained in the game, though.

Aurora was discovered from chasmbass, and this turned Neon from "fishing rig" to "pleasure city". The point of Neon, deliberately cultivated by its owners, is to be this loud party city.

After Neon became a pleasure city and attracted all the corporations, Solomon Coe invited it to join Akila City to form the Freestar Collective.
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Cyberpunk crime and corruption hellhole and tourist destination are kind of contradictory.
 
www.pcgamer.com

A heroic Starfield modder just straight-up deleted those repetitive temple 'puzzles' from the game

Chasing a buncha blinking lights in zero-G was enjoyable once. Once.
www.pcgamer.com www.pcgamer.com

But that chore is now over forever, thanks to modder johndoebowler who created a mod called No More Temple "Puzzles." (Yes, they added those sarcastic quotes.) Now you just step inside each temple and wait a few seconds, get your reward, and bail. Nice.
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Lol. Lmao. This is even better than the last mod since you still had to go at least one blinky light and into the rings.
 
The setting does feel like three flavors of americana.

I mean if thy didn't go so hard on accents, I'd even be inclined to believe that only really the US evacuated earth.

Th religion think is a pure cop out tho
 
Currently curtailing Starfield time in favor of Cyberpunk. In retrospect this time of year was jammed with good games and I am kinda glad that Diablo IV was such a dud (Leveling up feels like as punishment and better gear does not feel, for me, that it actually alters my stats in noticable way in gameplay).
Ironanvil1 said:
Which is particularly jarring as you'd have expected the FC to encompass a lot of the people fleeing Earth who didn't or couldn't fit the UC template.
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Um, the UC fits coastal US very well. The FC seems to lean on the tropes of flyover, or interior, US (and Texas). I think, without needing to go into politics, that even today it can be said that there are major cultural differences between the two in understanding as to what the idea of the US means.

For that matter I've read sci-fi books dating back to the 80's that suggest that interior US cultural groups go and build their own space US - for most pop culture example of the top of my head might be the Taurian Concordat in Battletech. It is an old trope.
thor2006 said:
So I think Starfield was a wrong purchase? Or the game is good ?
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Oh. game is good. It just doesn't have the same "If I stop play playing this for a week I forget what the quest wanted me to do and it matters"-vibe.
 
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Game is good. For some reason people expected second coming of Christ, when Bethesda never promised that. Also, weird nitpicking, such as Neon having to "justify" why it is a cyberpunk settlement and then dismissing every explanation.
 
Obfuscated said:
Um, the UC fits coastal US very well. The FC seems to lean on the tropes of flyover, or interior, US (and Texas). I think, without needing to go into politics, that even today it can be said that there are major cultural differences between the two in understanding as to what the idea of the US means.

For that matter I've read sci-fi books dating back to the 80's that suggest that interior US cultural groups go and build their own space US - for most pop culture example of the top of my head might be the Taurian Concordat in Battletech. It is an old trope.
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And, you might notice, the US is not the only country on present Earth...
thor2006 said:
So I think Starfield was a wrong purchase? Or the game is good ?
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It's a decent Bethesda game, which means it's a fun enough sandbox as is, but the shallowness shows up a lot when you scratch the surface, and should mature a lot with DLC and particularly mod tools.
 
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Ironanvil1 said:
And, you might notice, the US is not the only country on present Earth...

It's a decent Bethesda game, which means it's a fun enough sandbox as is, but the shallowness shows up a lot when you scratch the surface, and should mature a lot with DLC and particularly mod tools.
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Ok thanks. Play it in 2 years I think. When it is more polished/with DLC.
 
Hykal94 said:
www.pcgamer.com

A heroic Starfield modder just straight-up deleted those repetitive temple 'puzzles' from the game

Chasing a buncha blinking lights in zero-G was enjoyable once. Once.
www.pcgamer.com www.pcgamer.com



Lol. Lmao. This is even better than the last mod since you still had to go at least one blinky light and into the rings.
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You know, when I first saw a mod that "removed the temple puzzles" I was sure that I'd never install one. After all, puzzles are fun, even those weird rune matching one from Andromeda or the 3879th Tower of Hanoi reskin.

Then I found the first temple and didn't think anything of it, since it was the first story one and introductions are always a bit different. And then I randomly found my second one and I realized that this annoying "chase the sparkles" bit actually was the "puzzle".

Yeah, I'm definitely considering installing a mod that removes that, because it's incredibly boring 😅
 
I am holding onto (pointless) hope that either later patch or DLC will vary things up. I can understand that, at certain point, someone had to say "no more" and they were stuck with stuff they had, which was nowhere near enough, but... I still hope they work on things. More varied temple puzzles, more varied POIs, more internal randomization on POIs, eventual survival mode where food, fuel and all those things actually matter...
 
Carrington said:
You know, when I first saw a mod that "removed the temple puzzles" I was sure that I'd never install one. After all, puzzles are fun, even those weird rune matching one from Andromeda or the 3879th Tower of Hanoi reskin.

Then I found the first temple and didn't think anything of it, since it was the first story one and introductions are always a bit different. And then I randomly found my second one and I realized that this annoying "chase the sparkles" bit actually was the "puzzle".

Yeah, I'm definitely considering installing a mod that removes that, because it's incredibly boring 😅
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I think that, as a one-time thing, chasing the sparkles works as a puzzle and would be fine in a game. The problem is that it keeps being used, and after that first time it ceases to be a puzzle (because now you know exactly what you need to do) and just becomes busywork.
 
There is something 100% cut with the temples. Maybe the walk to the temple was more dangerous. Maybe each temple actually had a dungeon to it. Starborn popping afterwards seems to be a band aid solution.

It doesn't actually change the fact that space powers as a concept is the Thu'um but way worse. Like in every single regard. Consider the following :

1. The Voice has been part of Nord lore for decades. It's been mentioned as a way how Tiber Septim conquered Tamriel. It's intrinsically tied to Nord religion. It's a big deal and a logical conclusion of how Shouts have been utilised in Skyrim.
2. Shouts are a language on their own. Bethesda put in the effort to make an entire fictional language. The Word Walls you find at the end of each dungeon have stories attached to them and someone put in the effort to translating them.
3. Shouts made the Dragonborn special. It tied them to Dragonslaying, and for all bad aging Skyrim dragons went through over the decade plus, people recognise Skyrim as the game where you slay dragons. Guards will nervously ask you to stop Shouting because it freaks people out.

But space powers? The fact everyone calls them space powers is indicative of the lack of thought Bethesda put into it. No one bats an eye when you Whirlwind Sprint across New Atlantis. Your companions only pay lip service to it, but they never actually, you know, fully comment on it. Only Barett has a related quest to him getting the one power.

Quantum Essence feels like a leftover Dragon Soul mechanic, but whereas you use Dragon Souls to unlock the Words you find, QE is basically a mana buff you don't really need. I thought QE was supposed to be the ability to upgrade your powers, but you need to do NG runs for that.

I for one can't wait what modders and data miners will find over the coming months.
 
Kodiak said:
I don't think Bethesda did any worldbuilding on evacuating Earth.
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What there is to say? Try to get as many people of and settled elsewhere. Everything that would have happened is gone. Honestly, I think they were right not to add too much Earth lore, since all it would achieve is take away from the main game. Starfield is story of Constellation and Settled Systems, not about Earth.
 
Mandemon said:
What there is to say? Try to get as many people of and settled elsewhere. Everything that would have happened is gone. Honestly, I think they were right not to add too much Earth lore, since all it would achieve is take away from the main game. Starfield is story of Constellation and Settled Systems, not about Earth.
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That's the thing. The Settled Systems shows almost no legacy of Earth at all even though its less than 200 years old. Plus there's the part where Jemison is readily habitable but this isn't from a massive effort to import Earth's biosphere.

And then of course there is Cydonia. But no Earth Cydonias nor anything about an influx from Earth to Mars.
 
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