Crimson Aria (Arpeggio of Blue Steel)

The problem is that you need cores to generate Klein Fields. Without a core, you don't have a Klein Field.

Haruna can generate Klein Fields even as just a mental model because she has a battleship core (Takao can also generate them, but we haven't seen to what degree). As planes don't have their own cores, they basically are stuck without Klein Fields.

Also note that this impacts their aerial performance. The Fog seem to use Klein Fields to improve the agility of their craft-note the Klein Fields flaring when we see Repulse and Vampire diving. Without Klein Fields, the airplanes are stuck with the maximum possible performance from their original aerodynamics. While the improved engines and the like help, they are still limited to the transonic regions, and relatively limited maneuverability.

Well, we know that you can allocate power to run a sub-entity (points at Yukikaze) and we also know that the smaller fog vessels don't have Klein Shields.

Maybe we're thinking of this the wrong way - The Fog has more then just Klein fields. What other ways could they make their aircraft utterly broken?
 
Well, we know that you can allocate power to run a sub-entity (points at Yukikaze) and we also know that the smaller fog vessels don't have Klein Shields.

What Yamato and Repulse give to their respective destroyers is PROCESSING POWER, not generating power. I would put the torpedo boats down to a combination of inferior processors AND generators.

Maybe we're thinking of this the wrong way - The Fog has more then just Klein fields. What other ways could they make their aircraft utterly broken?

The Fog are already utterly broken in numerous other ways. Them not being totally perfect appears to be one of the points of the series.
 
Maybe we're thinking of this the wrong way - The Fog has more then just Klein fields. What other ways could they make their aircraft utterly broken?
Well, they could be invisible to radar and detection systems because magic SCIENCE! For rocket-carrying planes like the Corsair, Avenger, Helldiver, or Skyraider, some good old fashioned Macross Missile Spam with Corrosive Warheads or Lightning missiles? Beyond Visual Range missiles and torpedoes derived from the Tiny Tim and the Mark 24 Mine? Photon cannons for machine guns would be obvious. For Dive Bombers, the bombs could have warheads like EMP, Anti-Klien field, and the like. Just some ideas using existing Fog tech.

The Fog are already utterly broken in numerous other ways. Them not being totally perfect appears to be one of the points of the series.
Their problem is a mental one, their inability to think creatively pre-Mental Model, how each ship handles their newfound thinking capability, and the lack of feedback from the Admiralty Code. Their weapons and technology are not, and never have been, the problem.
 
hrm - atm, all I can think of to give the Fog aircraft is a combination of ludicrous firepower and insane speed and maneuverability due to advanced thruster tech and a lack of squishy humans inside. Also, they don't have to stay looking like WWII planes either...
 
hrm - atm, all I can think of to give the Fog aircraft is a combination of ludicrous firepower and insane speed and maneuverability due to advanced thruster tech and a lack of squishy humans inside. Also, they don't have to stay looking like WWII planes either...
Oh, I think
USS Midway, reporting! What birds to you need in the air, Sir?




 
hrm - atm, all I can think of to give the Fog aircraft is a combination of ludicrous firepower and insane speed and maneuverability due to advanced thruster tech and a lack of squishy humans inside. Also, they don't have to stay looking like WWII planes either...

One word: creativity.

And I really don't think that we have to worry TOO much about this: Just don't have any carriers.
 
And I really don't think that we have to worry TOO much about this: Just don't have any carriers.
You want to remove carriers from a setting that has Futuristic Ships modeled after the ships of WWII? The conflict that cemented the power of aircraft at sea? Forgive my French, but why the hell would you think that's a good idea? Especially when you gave an excellent one in the same post:
One word: creativity.
 
Because all of the introduced characters in this fic are NOT carriers. It represents a paradigm shift away from both the manga and this fic in terms of combat style and priorities. No point in the whole thing being thrown out the window. The core theme of the manga is "an ode to the IJN battleline" after all (quoting TVTropes).

(actually, the theme is based on torpedoes and sub combat, but that's another story)

Adding carriers forces the author to start in on a whole new direction for the plot and action sequences.

And why am I feeling Deja Vu?
 
Carrier's just don't work for the Fog as they currently exist.

It's not just processing power, or the number of cores to do it.

They just do not think in the right way to use aircraft as something other than scouts, and logistical transport.
 
They just do not think in the right way to use aircraft as something other than scouts, and logistical transport.
This I accept... to an extent. Part of why the Mental models were adopted was to think of novel strategies and techniques after all. I think it would be a very exciting twist for one of the Fog carriers deciding to take a page out of the older books and starts fighting like a WWII carrier.

The core theme of the manga is "an ode to the IJN battleline" after all (quoting TVTropes).

(actually, the theme is based on torpedoes and sub combat, but that's another story)
The source material being about sub's I'll agree on. The TVTropes bit... I'm ignoring, because that site isn't exactly the most academic and analytical around.
Because all of the introduced characters in this fic are NOT carriers. It represents a paradigm shift away from both the manga and this fic in terms of combat style and priorities. No point in the whole thing being thrown out the window... Adding carriers forces the author to start in on a whole new direction for the plot and action sequences.
All of the introduced characters AT THIS POINT. Unless you've been reading the author's notes and plans for this fic, that 'paradigm shift' is a load of bilgewater. We also have no idea how long this fic is going to go or how it'll change for the characters, so that's even more bilgewater you're spewing. If you've got a citation or communication from the author to back up your talk, let's have it. Otherwise, it's rude to put words into the author's mouth or present speculation as rock-solid fact.

And why am I feeling Deja Vu?
Because you've probably made this same argument earlier with someone else.
 
This I accept... to an extent. Part of why the Mental models were adopted was to think of novel strategies and techniques after all. I think it would be a very exciting twist for one of the Fog carriers deciding to take a page out of the older books and starts fighting like a WWII carrier.

Except they would be going up against the guys who WROTE the book... 100 years ago. Needless to say, they'll be out-tacticed pretty quickly.

The source material being about sub's I'll agree on. The TVTropes bit... I'm ignoring, because that site isn't exactly the most academic and analytical around.

All of the introduced characters AT THIS POINT. Unless you've been reading the author's notes and plans for this fic, that 'paradigm shift' is a load of bilgewater. We also have no idea how long this fic is going to go or how it'll change for the characters, so that's even more bilgewater you're spewing. If you've got a citation or communication from the author to back up your talk, let's have it. Otherwise, it's rude to put words into the author's mouth or present speculation as rock-solid fact.

I didn't put anything into his mouth. I merely made statements based on the currently published story.

That said, he DID state that he wanted to know how he could incorporate carriers, which implies that they are not part of his current plans.

And I would also like to point out that its not a good idea to have too many characters, or you have a hard time following the story (just look at Arpeggio canon).

Because you've probably made this same argument earlier with someone else.

Probably. Le sigh. These sites tend to be so pedantic.
 
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I didn't put anything into his mouth.
You posted a very strict conclusion about the story, when the author has not made a similar statement. Where I'm from, that's what we call it.

Probably. Le sigh. These sites tend to be so pedantic.
No sense in doing something if you're not going to do it right... and everyone has their facts straight.

HERESY.

How could you leave out the most iconic naval aircraft in the history of ever?


Behold your sins and be ashamed.
I am a disciple of John Boyd, the Terror of the Pentagon, maker of the OODA Loop. Any and all variable-geometry wings are anathema to a Real Fighter! /kidding.
 
Would you all stop arguing please? There are no carriers in the story atm because I haven't put them in, partially because I have no idea how they work since that hasn't really been established in the Manga yet. As for my plan with this story - I don't have one. I'm making it up as I go.

If I think of something cool to do with a carrier, they'll go in. But for now, no carriers in the foreseeable future.
 
To paraphrase:

Augusta: So why didn't you run?
Richardson: Because I'm a professional!

Oh hush, you coward. Stop trying to sound cool and admit you enjoy her company. :p
 
To paraphrase:

Augusta: So why didn't you run?
Richardson: Because I'm a professional!

Oh hush, you coward. Stop trying to sound cool and admit you enjoy her company. :p

Richardson: "Hey, I'm in Intel - the first thing you learn is covering your ass, and I can't fake a poly. I need Plausible deniability dammit!"
 
Well, we know that you can allocate power to run a sub-entity (points at Yukikaze) and we also know that the smaller fog vessels don't have Klein Shields.

Maybe we're thinking of this the wrong way - The Fog has more then just Klein fields. What other ways could they make their aircraft utterly broken?
???

Have non linear propulsion.

Currently all aircraft moved linearly both in the intensity and direction of their engines. This means that there's an inherent design flaw in that all aircraft can only go a variant of straight ahead and only at predictable speeds.

If you could fly left, right, up and down on top of straight ahead I don't know if there's anything from aircrafts to rockets that could out maneuver these hypothetical planes
 
Honestly, due to the lack of combat capacity a Carrier's biggest asset would be Emissions warfare, resource management and, possibly research and development. Have it run the secret island base like Hyuga did. Download nano-ware from the support boat, and build docking and repair facilities.

Maybe the carrier was one on the original landers carrying that boat load of processor nodes, and a seed stock of nano materials...
 
Honestly, due to the lack of combat capacity a Carrier's biggest asset would be Emissions warfare, resource management and, possibly research and development. Have it run the secret island base like Hyuga did. Download nano-ware from the support boat, and build docking and repair facilities.

Ok. This makes sense.

Maybe the carrier was one on the original landers carrying that boat load of processor nodes, and a seed stock of nano materials...

This, however, does not. Land where? And what boat load are you referring to? Why would one ship be carrying several Union Cores? The general rule is one ship, one core.
 
This, however, does not. Land where? And what boat load are you referring to? Why would one ship be carrying several Union Cores? The general rule is one ship, one core.

Land where? Planet Earth. She wasn't just a carrier she was a DropShip. She carried the Cores to protect them from damage during atmospheric entry. She wasn't carrying several Union Cores. Maybe she carried all of them for one faction.

But this is just all speculation, not even the Fog knows their full history.
And maybe that history was overwritten by the Admirality Code.
 
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I'm pretty sure that the AC is the origin of ALL of the Fog, and that they were originally one until the mental models awoke. And we don't know if they dropped through the atmosphere at all.

Edit: We're going into speculation territory and we've already been asked to stop. Let's stop.
 
Statement: Y'all need to calm your teats with the FOG Carrier speculation, like the good author here says. Or if you insist, go take it to the Arpeggio fic discussion thread.

All we know is they have awesome h4x skill that Zuikaku showed off screen, and they pack a crap ton of missiles and Corrosive warhead equipped ASROCs, plus the usual "Photon" style point defense weapons per Lexington. The US Fog Fleet seems to still like running (Fast Attack) Carrier Battle Groups, despite not really having a use for planes. Also, Carriers have a lot of free time and are a suitably eccentric bunch. Blah.

Just be patient and wait for Zoltan / Zordon(?) / His Name Keeps Changing to force Lady Lex to show off more of her tricks. Oh, and go read Issue #67 of the Arpeggio manga. Dunno why but it seems DDs are a feisty lot. Even Yukikaze knows how to troll while DRIFTING.
 
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Snip 20
this took so long that I'm getting a 'this thread is really old' warning while I post this... oops?
----

By the time Richardson made it back to the main deck, the Virginia coastline had once again vanished beyond the horizon as he found himself in the middle of seemingly endless ocean once again.

"I see you found your pants, how disappointing."

Richardson turned around to see Augusta standing nearby, staring out over the railing before glancing in his direction and giving him a small smile. "Like the new clothes?"

Richardson glanced down at his khaki pants and dark Hawaiian shirt. It was, thankfully, one of the most subdued hawaiian shirts he'd ever seen. "I look like I should be on vacation."

"I suppose I'll have to get you a mojito later," Augusta replied, "ready for the next stage of the plan?"

"We have a plan?" Richardson replied as leaned against the railing, "I thought we were just running around trying not to die at the hands of your former colleagues."

"And the next stage of that plan is about to start," Augusta replied, "we make for Ascension island."

"Or whats left of it," Richardson added. A couple decades of sea-level rises had left large chunks of the island submerged, leaving the former coastline dominated by artificial constructions - or at least, that's what the archive pictures had shown. Most of that had likely collapsed into the sea by now - few things were designed to stand up to years of sea spray without maintenance, "You sure there won't be anything waiting for us?" Richardson asked, "Island mid-way across the Atlantic seems like an obvious asset..."

"The Fog Fleet does not require land for our support infrastructure," Augusta replied, "our resupply vessels make seabasing trivial."

"Right, right..." Richardson replied, "So, since everything you're trying to contain is near the coasts..."

"We keep our logistical support near there as well," Augusta said with a nod, "only a token patrol passes through most blue-water sectors. The chances of us running into anyone is astronomically slim," Up ahead, a glimmer on the silver appeared on the horizon, "Ah - we're back." The rest of the Task Force came into view soon after, thought Richardson was slightly apprehensive when he saw the plume of smoke coming from Porter.

"What happened?" Richardson asked out loud as he quickly moved over to one of the rail-mounted binoculars, "Were they attacked?"

"Nah - Porter just tried her hand at cooking."

Richardson jumped before spinning around to face the red-headed Mental Model behind him. "Wichita! How the hell did you get here?"

Wichita shrugged. "I jumped. How'd the trip go?"

"You know," Richardson replied, "the usual - Car chases, explosions... federal agents..."

"Oh, sounds fun!" Wichita said excitedly as she took a seat on a piece of deck equipment, legs swinging under her, "I gotta hear this!"

"Later," Augusta said with a sigh, "We have a course to plot and Richardson needs to help Porter put out the fire."

Richardson turned to Augusta and blinked. "I do?"

"Well, Wichita obviously isn't going to help her," Augusta replied, "or it would be out already."

"Its only a small fire!" Wichita defended herself, "besides - its funny."

"You're too hard on Porter, Wichita," Richardson said with a sigh as they pulled closer to the destroyer. Sure enough, there was what appeared to be a medium-sized bonfire on Porter's foredeck, and the small Mental Model was desperately trying to bucket water onto the apparently out of control blaze, "Hello, Porter!" Richardson shouted, "Bad luck with a dive bomber or did you botch a torpedo fuse again?"

"Thats not funny!" Porter shouted back, arms flailing angrily.

"You are both horrible," Augusta said with a sigh as Wichita just cackled behind her. Augusta gave a her hand a languid wave, and a moment later a torrent of water poured across from the cruiser to the destroyer, drenching the forward section of the ship along with its small mental model, "Are you alright, Porter?"

There was a moment of pause as Porter pulled herself back up to the railing, "Yes, Augusta. Thank you... I think. How was your trip?" She pauses for a moment before adding "...you did that on purpose, didn't you?"

Augusta raises an eyebrow, "Of course I did - you desired assistance with your conflagration, did you not? As for our trip - well enough. We gathered all of the supplies we needed for the time being. Any word for Dakota?"

"A ping back confirming the plan to head for Ascension," Wichita replied with a shrug, "Otherwise - nothing."

Richardson looked around and, sure enough, no angry battleship. "Wait, she left?"

"Task Force flagships get busy, you know?" Augusta replied with a shrug, "Especially when they're being hunted. Now then - shall we start planning our route?"

"Sure," Richardson replied with a shrug before pointing in a vaguely southerly direction, "sail that way until we hit the dry bit." he turned to Augusta, "There - planning done. Anybody for shuffleboard?"

Augusta raised an eyebrow. "You are still upset about the pants thing - I can tell."

"Its not just the pants - its that your stupid mini-you..." Richardson waved a hand, "you know what? Forget it."

Wichita looked between the two for a moment, "You know, part of me really wants to know what you guys are talking about while another part figures I'm probably better off not knowing."

"I saw him naked," Augusta said with a shrug as she turned and walked away.

"Really?" Wichita raised an eyebrow as she glanced back at Richardson before turning back to Augusta with a grin and giving her a thumbs up, "nice!"

"I'm going to go bury my head in a book," Richardson said as he followed after Augusta and headed for the nearest ladder well, "Or just bury myself in books." Richardson ignored whatever else Wichita called after him with has he headed back into the depths of the the cruiser, his footfalls eventually bringing him to, of all places, the bridge.

All of the consoles to control the ship were laid out across the bridge, lights blinking softly despite the complete lack of need. Richardson sighed as he slipped into one of the console seats, one hand brushing against his pocket as he did. He paused a he felt something other then his wallet, reaching into the pocket before pulling out a small notebook.

He flipped through it, finding it mostly empty save for a few work notes from last week. How it had survived the last few days, he had no idea. With little better to do, he flipped to an open page of the notebook before fishing out a pen and starting to jot down some observations.

The sun slowly made its way across the sky as Richardson scribbled away into his notebook, slowly compiling everything he'd seen in the last few days. After a while, his notebook proved insufficient, so he started poking at the console in front of him, followed shortly by checking out all of the other consoles on the bridge. It was a room full of advanced electronics created by a quasi-alien entity - surely they had to have at least one text editor on one of them. He hoped.

He was pleasantly surprised when he actually managed to find a program on one of the terminals. After all, mental models probably didn't even need keyboards, or computer screens... did they? He jotted that down into his notes before settling into the seat and started to type. The disorganized mess of notes slowly started to take on a more ordered form as he typed them out, paragraphs taking shape as he drafted a preliminary report on behavior patterns of mental models.

"Well, well - aren't you busy."

Richardson nearly fell out of his seat as he spun around at the voice to find Dakota leaning against a bulkhead, calmly examining her nails in the afternoon light. "W-Where the hell did you come from!?"

"Oh, you know," Dakota replied with a calm shrug, "out and about - enjoy the visit home?"

"I got shot at," Richardson grumbled as he climbed back into his seat, a quick glance at his screen noting that it had gone dark, his text program having been replaced with a slowly spinning version of the same sigil across Augusta's prow, "so not well."

"That's unfortunate," Dakota said as she glided across the room before turning and taking a seat atop the console to Richardson's side, "how's the research report going?"

RIchardson glanced from Dakota to the screen and then back to the mental model, "How...?"

"That console is on the Task Force's tactical network," she replied, "you might as well have just dictated it to me."

Richardson blinked owlishly before turning back to the console, "...huh. How did I not think of that?"

"As if I would know," Dakota said with a shrug, "anyhow - you've drawn some interesting conclusions. Most of them are all wrong, but still interesting."

"Wrong?" Richard replied, raising an eyebrow at Dakota, "How am I wrong?"

"You seem highly sure that the Fleet will fracture," Dakota replied calmly as she examined her own fingernails.

"Unlikely?" Richardson replied, "We were shot at by your own people - its already happening. Case in point - we're having this conversation."

"What does that have to do with this?" Dakota replied with a quircked eyebrow.

"The fact that we are even having this conversation means its already happening," Richardson replied, "You've given yourselves the ability to hold personal perspectives - you're no longer a monolithic existence. And as time moves on, the divergence between different ships will only become more pronounced. You're already developing divergent tastes in food, clothing, hobbies - even combat. How much longer do you really expect politics to hold out?"

Dakota stared at him for a moment before hopping off of the console and onto her feet, "Well, that's your opinion."

"The fact that you have an opinion of your own proves my point." Richardson countered.

Dakota shot Richardson a hard glare, "The Code is absolute."

"The code?" Richardson replied with a shrug, "Sure. How it's interpreted though? Not so much - trust me, my government back home has years of experience with that."

Dakota sighed before giving him a wave as she started to walk out of the bridge, "Enjoy your theorycrafting - if you'll excuse me, I have to make sure we all don't get killed. Maybe you should look into where you fit into that."

Richardson watched her go before turning back to his console and pulling his still incomplete report back up. "I already am."
 
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