Consumption

[Vebyast]

You seem to be assuming there is some cyclical pattern to our choice of destinations, when even Alivaril admits he's rolling dice for this.

Click to shrink...

How does this make the situation better? Now hitting an event means our only chance is to break our anchor at a reasonable time and then roll dice. If that's the case we can entirely give up on planning further out than our next anchor break. The quest becomes "don't die" writ large, a continuous stream of short-term situations to react to, no continuity or planning past the immediate job of not dying. I don't want a quest where our entire goal is "survive". I want to be doing things.

Also, making some major assumptions about how Alivaril runs things.

Click to shrink...

If we can break our anchor in minutes instead of weeks, we become Jade: We can go anywhere we want on a whim. We just have to repeatedly break our anchor until we roll what we want.

 

[pressea]

I'm less concerned with missing interesting things than I am with bad things happening because we can't hit events any further than a week out, though both are major issues.

edit: As another example, say that Vanessa's House gets pushed into active insurgency by that crit-fail from earlier. Instead of a ball we're missing, it's now an opportunity to infiltrate the local branch office during a festival. Or maybe a chance to break someone out of prison before they're interrogated, or etc.

Click to shrink...

Things happen off-screen all the time in the style of QMing Alivaril uses. It's a feature: By having time pass where we can't do shit about it, the situation changes even in places we've already been and the vibe of exploration present throughout the entire quest (and embedded in Melia's character: her curiosity) remains.

Because that's what this quest is really about (right now): Exploration. Constant, involuntary exploration. Being thrust into unknown situations and dealing with it as best we can. I'm probably not going to like this quest nearly as much if we ever gain some real control over our situation and are able to put down roots.

How does this make the situation better? Now hitting an event means our only chance is to break our anchor at a reasonable time and then roll dice. If that's the case we can entirely give up on planning further out than our next anchor break. The quest becomes "don't die" writ large, a continuous stream of short-term situations to react to, no continuity or planning past the immediate job of not dying. I don't want a quest where our entire goal is "survive". I want to be doing things.
If we can break our anchor in minutes instead of weeks, we become Jade: We can go anywhere we want on a whim. We just have to repeatedly break our anchor until we roll what we want.

Click to shrink...

lol, we want the opposite, no pleasing everyone

 

[AramilOniasha]

[X] Ask yet more questions.
-[X]Whats with the ants?
-[X] What exactly is an Arcane?

[X] While you are talking, let your elementals go poke the Mana chunks to see what happens.

 

[Alivaril]

Spoiler: Unhappy QM's Note

Disclaimer: The following is not intended to chew anyone out; please interpret it as something to learn from instead. In addition, some participants of the following arguments remained quite civil; others, not so much.

Last night, I went to work in a freakishly hot kitchen for multiple hours, during which time the thread dissolved into a collection of acidic arguments. Needless to say, this is not a good thing.

One of the arguments which stood out was how a few people "didn't trust SV" not to do something they considered stupid if provided with more information on what Delight can offer you. Give your fellow players some credit, would you? And Melia, for that matter.

Another boiled down to arguments over the sorts of assumptions which can and cannot be made when in an unfamiliar environment and/or faced with traditionally antagonistic beings. That very same argument was thought to be the start of one on morality when, in fact, it was still a comfortable distance away from such, yet it still spurred an argument all on its own. The actual morality argument came later on. >_<;

No matter how good you believe your preferred actions are or how awful another one may be, trying to force people toward your point of view doesn't really work all that well. Ignition's playerbase got through the numerous challenges presented to them through collaboration and cannibalism... Uh, vote cannibalism, I mean. You know what, let's just call it "vote assimilation" instead. Either way, assessing the flaws and perks of an opposing plan will often lead to improvements for every popular plan, meaning you're less likely to end up with something you loathe and have a pretty good chance of making your favorite option even better.

TL;DR: My quests, and arguably quests in general, are cooperative, not competitive.

---

[x] The prickly feeling is bugging you. Try to check if you're being affected by any sort of spell.

You don't find anything unusual. You're inhaling moderate amounts of environmental mana with every breath, but that's not unusual. Your body doesn't seem to be having any problems assimilating it.


[x] Ask what she does with power and stuff. She described a lot of means but no ends. What does she do for fun? What does she want out of life?

"What do you even do with power? You've described a lot of ways to obtain power, but not why you'd want it or what you'd do with it."

Delight closes her eyes and slowly lays down on the floor. You don't think she's taking you seriously anymore.

"Why do you need to breathe?"

...Uh...

"I, um, don't actually know that. I know I need it to stay alive; is that what you mean?"

"Yes. As an Astral, I am unaging, impossible to permanently kill, and vulnerable. We do not require food or drink, and as such, we are easier to contain. We do not die of old age, but if we do not keep ourselves occupied, we slowly go mad. Mortals have the promise of the afterlife or rebirth; we have neither. We are faced with eternity and eternity stares back at us."

Delight yawns and curls up on the floor.

"Every Astral pursues power for multiple reasons, myself included, but nearly all do so in order to avoid the situation I am currently in. I admit we're usually more worried about our elders than mortals, an oversight which I am rather more sympathetic to than I used to be. I pursue power to maintain my freedom, obtain more power, and keep myself entertained. I enjoy giving mortals the tools they'd need to succeed and having them teach me the secrets they learned during their lifetime. Nothing forces me to keep a human soul for the entire length of time they previously agreed to; I generally offer and grant reduced servitude for excellent service. They're often more efficient and happier than the unmotivated servants so many other Astrals keep.

"If, as I have been assuming your brain or heart is damaged? I can fix them. Your own life for my freedom; I would think that would be a fair trade, would it not? And yet, I am still in here. If your brief fainting spell was a result of your method of travel as opposed to some illness, I ask why you have come here in the first place. There are other Astrals, nearly all of which are easier to find or summon without risking the wrath of Gaea's priesthood. Some of them are even trustworthy. I could take us both well away Gaea's devoted if I were freed, yet you haven't even asked about such an option."

Delight sighs and opens one eye for the sole purpose of peering at you.

"But you don't have a basis for comparison, do you? I applaud your desire to ask questions, but unless you are an excellent actor, I have been your only source of information on numerous topics. Those I usually trade with often know what they're getting themselves into, what I can offer, and what it will cost them. The very fact that you have yet to break my bonds indicates you do not properly trust me—or you have yet another gap regarding how Astrals work. Unlike many mortals, we often repay debts more generously than we would if we traded for the equivalent action. I am no exception. Meanwhile, coercion encourages us to give as little as possible.

"I invite you to review your memories of myths and stories. When an Astral was forced to agree to a deal in order to be freed, how often did they seem reluctant and only agreed to the bare minimum? Now please, compare it to the tales of those freed for no set reward. Do you remember which were better?"

You're honestly not sure how to answer that one. Yes, the tales of rewards for selfless deeds and the like often granted a better reward than those who sought a reward from the start, yet you also remember a few cases where magical beings would repay their savior with some horrible curse. And anyway, you can't remember any stories which had crimson-haired beings rewarding selfless deeds; it was usually fairy queens, ghosts, disguised gods, and so on. The stories which did involve imprisoned demons often involved the protagonist freeing them despite being blatantly evil.

Oh, and you're not even from the same dimension as Delight. Your world doesn't even have real demons.

Fairy tales aren't very good sources of information, are they?

---

[] You're trying to gather information and determine whether or not you think you even CAN trust her. Could she please just be patient for a little while?

[] Ask more general questions.
-[] Did Delight deliberately bring up fairy tales when she knew you didn't really know anything about her or Astrals?
-[] How does Delight think Gaea's followers would treat you if you left now?
-[] What does Delight think Gaea's followers would say about the Astral they imprisoned (if asked)?
-[] Write-in

[] There's nothing really stopping her from offering the same thing she would give you if freed, is there? Apart from mindset, that is.
-[] You're not sick, by the way. That was just a side-effect of coming here.
-[] So, what would it be?

[] Write-in

---

Spoiler: QM's Note #2

Ironically enough, the short length of the vote is the only thing which let me get this out today at all. So, yeah, don't be afraid to do short votes.

None of Delight's dialogue was influenced by OOC discussion. It just kinda flowed in that direction on its own. The same holds true for how Melia often only gets to ask the first part of her questions, yet the other parts are still answered.

 

[Nixeu]

How does this make the situation better? Now hitting an event means our only chance is to break our anchor at a reasonable time and then roll dice. If that's the case we can entirely give up on planning further out than our next anchor break. The quest becomes "don't die" writ large, a continuous stream of short-term situations to react to, no continuity or planning past the immediate job of not dying. I don't want a quest where our entire goal is "survive". I want to be doing things.

Click to shrink...

Currently, that's our general goal. That may change over time. However, for the moment, this is the situation we're in.

Sorry, but currently, specific long-term planning isn't viable. Whether or not we like it doesn't change the situation. There are certainly ways to help resolve that (teleportation magic, for one), and attempting to seek them out is a perfectly fine thing, but we currently lack such things. Telling ourselves we don't, and, more to the point, borrowing trouble by worrying about things we can't control, isn't helping anyone.

If we can break our anchor in minutes instead of weeks, we become Jade: We can go anywhere we want on a whim. We just have to repeatedly break our anchor until we roll what we want.

Click to shrink...

And? We'd have to have worked to get that advantage. Pretty damn hard, by the sounds of the Inquisition. Also, the keys wouldn't be in our hands. So there's that, as well.

*****
Yeah...Delight kinda makes some good points, actually. She originally assumed we had sought her out deliberately, and thus were at least partially knowing what we were getting ourselves into. She had no real reason to think otherwise, until we started asking questions that indicated otherwise. That means her earliest answers are the least likely to be skewed.

The more we asked, the more time she had to analyze what we were saying, and what it indicated about our own knowledge. Thus, she had less and less reason to think we knew what we were doing, and what we were getting ourselves into. Thus, more reason to be deceptive. Except, if she was being deceptive, why tell us she can tell that we're ignorant? Better to keep us unaware that she knows.

My gut is telling me she's probably being genuine here, my reason says she's probably been at least somewhat straight with us, and my paranoia is screaming to get out. And I have no idea which to listen to.

...F*ck it, my head is foggy, and I need to take a bath. Someone else can try and unpack this, and figure out what it means. I'm not in any state to do so right now.

 

[Random832]

I think that probably the first thing we should do, to encourage her to be patient, is answer one of her questions:

If your brief fainting spell was a result of your method of travel as opposed to some illness, I ask why you have come here in the first place.

Click to shrink...

AIUI (correct me if I'm wrong?) the fainting spell was actually caused by our translation thing being overloaded when she, understandably for her point of view on the situation, kept switching languages (and by the way if there's another language she'd be more comfortable holding the conversation in, she should feel free to switch and we should be able to keep up after a short adjustment time). And that our "method of travel" doesn't give us many choices about where (or when) to go, or information about who we will find there. And we don't even know what an Astral (or an Arcane, what she's called us) is, for that matter. We're, in a nutshell, not from around here.

 

[SynchronizedWritersBlock]

Yeah...Delight kinda makes some good points, actually. She originally assumed we had sought her out deliberately, and thus were at least partially knowing what we were getting ourselves into. She had no real reason to think otherwise, until we started asking questions that indicated otherwise. That means her earliest answers are the least likely to be skewed.

The more we asked, the more time she had to analyze what we were saying, and what it indicated about our own knowledge. Thus, she had less and less reason to think we knew what we were doing, and what we were getting ourselves into. Thus, more reason to be deceptive. Except, if she was being deceptive, why tell us she can tell that we're ignorant? Better to keep us unaware that she knows.

My gut is telling me she's probably being genuine here, my reason says she's probably been at least somewhat straight with us, and my paranoia is screaming to get out. And I have no idea which to listen to.

...F*ck it, my head is foggy, and I need to take a bath. Someone else can try and unpack this, and figure out what it means. I'm not in any state to do so right now.

Click to shrink...

You have to see, though, that Delight have avoided making definitive statements at all. Inviting us to review myths is not the same thing as stating she'd act in a certain way. "We often repay debts" is not a statement about how a debt would be repaid in these circumstances. Every sentence is carefully crafted to avoid making a definitive statement one way or another.

Although, I have to say, if Delight is telling the truth about how Astrals have to seek new experiences, then she would love the situation we're in.

 

[ImperatorV]

I think explaining we're dimension hopping and have never encountered even stories about her kind before is the correct course of action here. We can watch her response to that. Also I get the impression she's overall reasonable and at least somewhat trustworthy, but is getting increasingly annoyed by our distrust, since it implies we have a low opinion of her. Explaining why we feel the need to scope out the situation explains our actions, and we still can always just leave if people don't think contracting with her is a good idea.

 

[Spectral Waltz]

I think she's trustworthy.

That's all I'll say.

I think that she is telling the truth, I feel like she doesn't really have much reason to hide anything from us, and I feel like given all the information she has provided she is either really good at coming up with a coherent and consistent narrative on the spot to fool someone, or she has been giving us accurate information from her perspective.

I think we should at least discuss freeing her, if not taking her on as a passenger, and personally, I feel like as a passenger she would be fun to have along. I definitely think we should negotiate for a shorter term contract, maybe a trial period of a week or two at first at the very least. I also think that if possible, we should avoid the letting her take control once a month or once every two weeks bit.

That said, I think we have a lot to bargain with here. Our power for her is basically the offer of a lifetime, new experiences that no other astral could reasonably duplicate, so those two shouldn't necessarily be hard to obtain.

Not an agreement or negotiation right away of course. I think we should explain the dimension hopping, that we aren't sick and also mention the whole 'no astral we've ever met before' bit.

 

[NemoMarx]

[] Ask more general questions.
-[] Did Delight deliberately bring up fairy tales when she knew you didn't really know anything about her or Astrals?

I'm very tempted by this. It totally felt like a dodge, to me, but also maybe she did that so we'd ask about it and reveal we don't know what Astrals are more directly, instead of just being ignorant/naive?

 

[Random832]

Although, I have to say, if Delight is telling the truth about how Astrals have to seek new experiences, then she would love the situation we're in.

Click to shrink...

We should definitely explain that situation. Whether she likes it or hates it, it'll definitely affect any deal she may or may not want us to make.

I think we should at least discuss freeing her, if not taking her on as a passenger, and personally, I feel like as a passenger she would be fun to have along. I definitely think we should negotiate for a shorter term contract, maybe a trial period of a week or two at first at the very least. I also think that if possible, we should avoid the letting her take control once a month or once every two weeks bit.

Click to shrink...

Or just she travels with us in her own body. With the "terms", such as they are, being the ones normal adventuring companions implicitly have - to help each other out with combat and dungeon exploration etc.

Anything else can be negotiated after we get to know each other better.

(We also should mention that we can't guarantee that we won't leave her behind somewhere - if for no other reason than the fact that our anchor was severely weakened against our will with little warning in the last universe, and we may encounter a similar situation in the future. So she'd need to be prepared for that possibility)

 

[fictionfan]

[x]I don't fear the Gaea priesthood. I can not be contained by any method known to me. If anything I suffer from the opposite problem.
-[x] explain your traveling situation.
-[x]explain that you traveled here only knowing that someone was imprisoned. Her offer of possession was unexpected and unknown.

[X]I am not sick.

 

[Spectral Waltz]

[x]I don't fear the Gaea priesthood. I can not be contained by any method known to me. If anything I suffer from the opposite problem.
-[x] explain your traveling situation.
-[x]explain that you traveled here only knowing that someone was imprisoned. Her offer of possession was unexpected and unknown.

Click to shrink...

This feels just a little too vague? How much are we explaining of the travelling situation? Just that we're jumping from world to world? Or do we also want to add in that we've never encountered an astral before in any of the worlds we've visited? Do we want to mention the anchor?

Also I feel like we should be pointing out that we aren't sick...

 

[Grigori]

Honestly, was not freeing her ever something people considered? I figured at the very least we'd free her before jumping ship.

[] You're not sick, by the way. That was just a side-effect of coming here and your translation spell. You're trying to gather information and determine whether or not you think you even CAN trust her. Could she please just be patient for a little while?
-[] Did Delight deliberately bring up fairy tales when she knew you didn't really know anything about her or Astrals? You aren't from around here so you'd appreciate some clarification on terms/basics.
-[] How does Delight think Gaea's followers would treat you if you left now?
-[] Offer some information about your own situation to explain your confusion.
-[] Ask any other questions you can think of. Answer some of her questions. Discuss terms but don't agree to anything.

So how about trying to be a bit more open? We need some understanding so this ought to be something of a give and take. Hopefully we can get her to be blunt in her explanations because we can't really just maintain our evasiveness and we have to show her that neither can she.

 

[Vebyast]

[] You're very not from around here, as she may have guessed. The portals aren't exactly under your control.
[] The problem is, the closest analogs you have to her in your fairy tales are... not so often malicious as aggressively lazy, greedy, and masters of creatively interpretation. And Delight's been playing exactly to stereotype so far, so you're not particularly inclined to make a deal.


edit: FFS, I should just stop posting.

 

[PrimalShadow]

Hm. I'm feeling like we are being unfair to Desire here. We've left her working off of incorrect assumptions and false-ish hope, when there is truly little reason to do so.

The fact of the matter is thus: right now, she isn't in a position to threaten us if we give her information. If we let her free, she will be in a position to threaten us largely regardless of whether we give her the information. So why be upfront at this point?

[X] You're not sick. That was just a side-effect of coming here.
[X] You aren't from around here, at all.
-[X] You traveled here only knowing that someone was imprisoned. Her offer of possession was unexpected and unknown.

 

[pressea]

If we do free her, it shouldn't be for anything other than our safety and freedom. There's nothing stopping us from negotiating for a second deal when she's in a muuuch better mood.

 

[Simon_Jester]

I would like to point out that if Delight moves to a new dimension, she might lose access to any stored power or leased souls she has in this dimension, and she might be unable to arrange stable ways to secure power in a subsequent dimension. It might not work out to her advantage, especially if we never figure out a reliable way to send her home.

You have to see, though, that Delight have avoided making definitive statements at all. Inviting us to review myths is not the same thing as stating she'd act in a certain way. "We often repay debts" is not a statement about how a debt would be repaid in these circumstances. Every sentence is carefully crafted to avoid making a definitive statement one way or another.

Click to shrink...

Note that what she DID say about herself is: " I enjoy giving mortals the tools they'd need to succeed and having them teach me the secrets they learned during their lifetime. Nothing forces me to keep a human soul for the entire length of time they previously agreed to; I generally offer and grant reduced servitude for excellent service. "

The first sentence is relevant because it is an unforced statement about her motives, and one that suggests a personality relatively free of depravity. She could have said anything; if she didn't want us to know what she does with mortal souls for fun, she could have told us nothing aside from "we Astrals desire power to retain our freedom of action and avoid being sealed like this." That's fair enough, after all. But instead, she chose to tell us this.

The second sentence is relevant because she's not even asking for a soul lease. She explicitly told us she no longer accepts payment in credit cards post-mortem spiritual servitude. She didn't have to tell us that, either. We wouldn't have been surprised if it weren't true, or if she didn't mention it.

Assuming that she is in fact compelled to tell the literal truth, and I see no reason to doubt this though I'd like to test if we are under such a compulsion... These two sentences together suggest that while she may do some things we think are wrong, she operates within a recognizable ethical system that we can work with, rather than being an utterly depraved or malicious being.

I still don't want her riding around in Melia's head, but I find myself a lot less reluctant to make a short-term, one time only deal (such as empowering our elementals, or some sort of physical enhancement).

Although, I have to say, if Delight is telling the truth about how Astrals have to seek new experiences, then she would love the situation we're in.

Click to shrink...

I doubt 'Delight' has ever needed to answer this question in this way- anyone who summons Astrals and is native to this dimension would either already know, or not care. She was not prepared for this situation. Therefore, I very much doubt that this is a calculated deception. She may be shading the truth somewhat out of reflex, or she may be portraying herself in a self-serving light, but I don't think it plausible that this whole thing was a Kyubey-esque barrage of carefully worded half-truths intended to lead us to an entirely incorrect conclusion.

I think we've succeeded in irritating her into simply telling the truth, which is probably going to turn into one of Melia's signature tactics the same way James Kirk habitually talks evil computers into committing suicide.

I think explaining we're dimension hopping and have never encountered even stories about her kind before is the correct course of action here. We can watch her response to that. Also I get the impression she's overall reasonable and at least somewhat trustworthy, but is getting increasingly annoyed by our distrust, since it implies we have a low opinion of her. Explaining why we feel the need to scope out the situation explains our actions, and we still can always just leave if people don't think contracting with her is a good idea.

Click to shrink...

I think this is a good idea.

Her willingness to deal with us in good faith may erode rapidly if we don't make some gesture of apology for asking her annoying questions when she urgently desires to be let out of this force field bubble she's trapped in. Even if I don't trust her, and elect not to deal with her at all, I see no reason to be impolite to her about that.

Honestly, was not freeing her ever something people considered? I figured at the very least we'd free her before jumping ship.

Click to shrink...

It was reasonable to fear, and is still not un-reasonable to fear, that she may be a partly-malicious trickster entity who offers lopsided bargains (obtaining great power and benefits for herself, at great expense to mortal souls, in exchange for slight effort on her part). It is reasonable to fear that she may wreak undeserved havoc on who-knows-who. It is reasonable to fear that if we let her loose, this may become known somehow, and we may make enemies should we ever return to this dimension. It was reasonable to fear, though I feel it unreasonable to fear now, that she might even be completely lying about everything and be an utterly depraved being held prisoner for very good reasons.

Therefore yes, some people, myself included, considered not freeing her. I think freeing her is a reasonable course of action for now, though I could still be talked out of it.

[] You're not sick, by the way. That was just a side-effect of coming here and your translation spell. You're trying to gather information and determine whether or not you think you even CAN trust her. Could she please just be patient for a little while?
-[] Did Delight deliberately bring up fairy tales when she knew you didn't really know anything about her or Astrals? You aren't from around here so you'd appreciate some clarification on terms/basics.
-[] How does Delight think Gaea's followers would treat you if you left now?
-[] Offer some information about your own situation to explain your confusion.
-[] Ask any other questions you can think of. Answer some of her questions. Discuss terms but don't agree to anything.

Click to shrink...

I don't like your third line because it could be interpreted by 'Delight' as us talking about leaving without freeing her. We should NOT raise that probability in a way that she may interpret as us trying to threaten her with continued imprisonment. Especially since she just told us that if we try to jerk her around that way, any wishes she grants us will be under Jerkass Genie rules instead of Nice Genie rules.

So how about trying to be a bit more open? We need some understanding so this ought to be something of a give and take. Hopefully we can get her to be blunt in her explanations because we can't really just maintain our evasiveness and we have to show her that neither can she.

Click to shrink...

I'm actually okay with that.

However, I want to emphasize that I think we should be thinking in terms of a short-term one-off deal, something that ends when we leave this dimension, or possibly something that involves agreeing to ferry her in person in her own physical body to another dimension. While I may believe we can negotiate with 'Delight' in good faith, I do not think we understand her well enough, or have enough influence over her opinions, for her to make a good passenger inside Melia's head.

[] You're very not from around here, as she may have guessed. The portals aren't exactly under your control.
[] The problem is, the closest analogs you have to her in your fairy tales are... not so often malicious as aggressively lazy, greedy, and masters of creatively interpretation. And Delight's been playing exactly to stereotype so far, so you're not particularly inclined to make a deal.

edit: FFS, I should just stop posting.

Click to shrink...

That's actually a pretty good start.

Hm. I'm feeling like we are being unfair to Desire here.

Click to shrink...

Her nickname is 'Delight,' and we arguably have, but it was very much an accident.

 

[AramilOniasha]

[X] You're not sick, by the way. That was just a side-effect of coming here and your translation spell.
[X] Ask more general questions.
-[X] What is an Astral?
[X] While you are chatting, let your Elementals go poke the Mana to see what happens

 

[buffog]

[X] You're not sick, by the way. That was just a side-effect of coming here and your translation spell.
[X] Ask more general questions.
-[X] What is an Astral?
[X] While you are chatting, let your Elementals go poke the Mana to see what happens

 

[Simon_Jester]

Okay, this is a somewhat rewritten pastiche of other people's votes...

[X] You're very not from around here, as she may have guessed. The portals aren't exactly under your control.
-[X] You're not sick. That was just a side-effect of coming here and your translation spell. You don't mean to be rude or manipulative with all these questions, but you're from another dimension entirely. One where Astrals either don't exist, or are very different.
-[X] Explain that you traveled here only knowing that someone was imprisoned. Her offer of possession was unexpected and unknown. And... uh, maybe kind of scary.
-[X] The problem is, the closest analogs you have to her in your fairy tales are... not so often malicious as aggressively lazy, greedy, and masters of creative interpretation. Thus, you started the conversation with some mistrust, especially since some things about Delight fit the descriptions of the things in your fairy tales.
-[X] It's not that you do or don't trust her. It's that you've been trying to gather information and determine whether or not you think you even CAN trust her. Can she be patient for a little longer?
-[X] Did Delight deliberately bring up fairy tales when she knew you didn't really know anything about her or Astrals? You aren't from around here, so you'd appreciate some clarification on terms/basics.

[X] Ask any other questions you can think of. Answer some of her questions. Discuss terms but don't agree to anything.

This last is included because ALL THE QUESTIONS GO MELIA WOO!

 

[Spectral Waltz]

[X] You're very not from around here, as she may have guessed. The portals aren't exactly under your control.
-[X] You're not sick. That was just a side-effect of coming here and your translation spell. You don't mean to be rude or manipulative with all these questions, but you're from another dimension entirely. One where Astrals either don't exist, or are very different.
-[X] Explain that you traveled here only knowing that someone was imprisoned. Her offer of possession was unexpected and unknown. And... uh, maybe kind of scary.
-[X] The problem is, the closest analogs you have to her in your fairy tales are... not so often malicious as aggressively lazy, greedy, and masters of creative interpretation. Thus, you started the conversation with some mistrust, especially since some things about Delight fit the descriptions of the things in your fairy tales.
-[X] It's not that you do or don't trust her. It's that you've been trying to gather information and determine whether or not you think you even CAN trust her. Can she be patient for a little longer?
-[X] Did Delight deliberately bring up fairy tales when she knew you didn't really know anything about her or Astrals? You aren't from around here, so you'd appreciate some clarification on terms/basics.

[X] Ask any other questions you can think of. Answer some of her questions. Discuss terms but don't agree to anything.

 

[Nixeu]

You have to see, though, that Delight have avoided making definitive statements at all. Inviting us to review myths is not the same thing as stating she'd act in a certain way. "We often repay debts" is not a statement about how a debt would be repaid in these circumstances. Every sentence is carefully crafted to avoid making a definitive statement one way or another.

Although, I have to say, if Delight is telling the truth about how Astrals have to seek new experiences, then she would love the situation we're in.

Click to shrink...

Okay, maybe. But I think I can see a flaw in this. And I think I know why we're reacting this way.

We're too used to Kyubey.

Think about it. In order to deceive, you need to lie convincingly. To lie convincingly, the other party has to not be able to tell that you're lying. You can't tell them things they know aren't true.

Kyubey has a HUGE leg up in that regard, because he knows what his targets know. He's been monitoring them for their entire lives, and knows about their history. He has the time and knowledge to tailor every statement he makes for maximum deception.

Delight, however, knew dick-all about us before we started talking to her. She has to infer what we know or don't know from what information she has. Thus, her earliest statements, the ones where she had the least information on us, are the most likely to be truthful. Because she's operating on assumptions, and an experienced lier knows not to lie much if you don't know the target. Once you can get a better read on them, then you can deceive them.

More than that, I think we can probably chart the initial assumptions about us she would have made.

First, we visited her. So we probably knew she was there, unless we were an acolyte who wandered in. That doesn't work, though, because she didn't see us come in, nor did she hear footsteps. Also, most acolytes probably wouldn't be Arcanes. They'd be what the High Priestess is. I'm trusting in the terminology, because that would almost certainly be a very basic asssumption she'd make, until she learned otherwise.

So, we're an Arcane. And either we snuck in via stealth magic, or we teleported in. Teleportation magic is almost certainly high-grade stuff. So either we have a very knowledgeable backer, who would have schooled us on protocol, or we have that knowledge ourselves. Our elementals are another indicator that we probably know our stuff, when it comes to non-humans, as elementals are pretty close to Astrals, by her description. The low level might indicate we're a genius mage of some kind, skilled beyond normal for our years.

Also, we, or our mentor, figured out where she was, and sought her out specifically. This probably means she has a relatively good rep, or we considered this a good opportunity, even if she had a bad rep.

Our reason for visiting would have become 'obvious' when we nearly fainted. So, her first response to a sick Arcane who almost certainly knows who she is, and sought her out specifically, was her first sentence to us. While it did have weasels, it was still something she probably had the least possible deception in. And it was...incredibly business-like. I think that's a good sign, personally.

Will respond to more later, have things to do.

Edit: Seriously, though. We should analyze her statements, and what they can tell us about her. Even if they're lies, or half-truths, that can tell us things. Especially what she's assuming about us.

 

[Thanatanos]

[X] You're very not from around here, as she may have guessed. The portals aren't exactly under your control.
-[X] You're not sick. That was just a side-effect of coming here and your translation spell. You don't mean to be rude or manipulative with all these questions, but you're from another dimension entirely. One where Astrals either don't exist, or are very different.
-[X] Explain that you traveled here only knowing that someone was imprisoned. Her offer of possession was unexpected and unknown. And... uh, maybe kind of scary.
-[X] The problem is, the closest analogs you have to her in your fairy tales are... not so often malicious as aggressively lazy, greedy, and masters of creative interpretation. Thus, you started the conversation with some mistrust, especially since some things about Delight fit the descriptions of the things in your fairy tales.
-[X] It's not that you do or don't trust her. It's that you've been trying to gather information and determine whether or not you think you even CAN trust her. Can she be patient for a little longer?
-[X] Did Delight deliberately bring up fairy tales when she knew you didn't really know anything about her or Astrals? You aren't from around here, so you'd appreciate some clarification on terms/basics.

[X] Ask any other questions you can think of. Answer some of her questions. Discuss terms but don't agree to anything.

 

[Vebyast]

I would prefer to not autopilot through discussing terms.

We have no idea what we want. If you're going to try to make a deal, figure out something you want first. Otherwise you may as well just let her out now with nothing returned.