Cleaning Up After The Ancients (Stargate SI)

More seriously, in this story the Ancients know machines don't have souls and are convinced they could not manifest one even in biological bodies. The Ancients also see having said metaphysical structure as a requirement to be a person. Which seems extremely short-sighted.


In this story the Ancients are shown to have spent the last few millennia going full mad scientist.

While it might conflict with my personal view of the matter, in universe I choose to believe if the ancients have a rule about it, it's from some serious capital F Finding Out.

If Bob the "making things develop souls" guy is banned from doing it, it probably went very wrong at least once.
 
In this story the Ancients are shown to have spent the last few millennia going full mad scientist.

While it might conflict with my personal view of the matter, in universe I choose to believe if the ancients have a rule about it, it's from some serious capital F Finding Out.

If Bob the "making things develop souls" guy is banned from doing it, it probably went very wrong at least once.
Last few millenia? I'd say they probably spent more time on that, as well as likely having had previous mad science periods in their society that they managed to survive.
After all ... their continuity of species protocols? They didn't set that up on a whim.


Also ... making things have souls? I can easily see lots of potential problems with artificial souls.
 
After all ... their continuity of species protocols? They didn't set that up on a whim.
The Wraith: "We defeated The Ancients ten thousand years ago! They're dead! They can't just show up and reappear!"

The Ancients: "This is not the first time our species has died, nor will it be the last. So, you failed. Now die to our mad science!"
 
Chapter 54 - Brick Wall
Chapter 54 - Brick Wall​


"Congratulations." Eventus told Larrin as he entered the code to lower the force field on her cell. "You made it to Lantea without disappointing me further."

Not that that was a particularly hard task given it just meant she hadn't tried to do something stupid like pretend to be sick or try to kill herself.

"You really never stop do you?" Larrin groused as he opened the cell door.

"Hold out your arms." Eventus ordered, jangling the safety restraints in hand so she would know what was coming.

"And yes." He continued as he moved forward to secure her. "But I haven't had a vacation since the siege of Atlantis began and–

The hum and brief greenish light of his personal shield activating interrupted before he could finish.

"Ah!" Larrin screamed, collapsing to her knees and clutching the hand she'd just tried to punch him with in pain as Eventus let out an annoyed sigh.

He had known it was likely she'd try something, and providing the opportunity was a big part of why he'd told the guard he would bring Larrin down to Atlantis on his own. After all, better she try whatever it was on him instead of someone she might actually hurt. But he'd honestly thought she would be a bit smarter about it instead of trying to knock him out the first chance she got.

"The stupidity tax for that is that I'm not going to heal your very likely broken hand."

"I had to try." Larrin muttered in pain as he bent down and secured the magnetic restraint cuffs to her wrists.

"You really didn't." Eventus said as he pulled her back up to her feet. "Believe it or not, everything I'm doing is for your people's own good."

"Keep telling yourself that." Larrin growled, very clearly not buying the reality he was trying to convince her of. "In the end though you're just a petty little man who gets off on lording his power over others.

His patience snapped, and it was only through sheer force of will that he didn't backhand Larrin across the cell.

"You know." Eventus began, cowing any chance of interruption with a glare that would likely do Moras proud. "I was going to be nice about this. Lead you to the slow realization that what your people needed to survive wasn't a ship, but trustworthy allies."

Leaning over, he locked eyes with the shorter woman. "But I don't have the patience to deal with your bullshit, so I'm just going to explain reality to you."

And it was a very unfortunate reality at that.

"Your people are doomed. Even with an Explorer class vessel, which I will note has capabilities you likely never even dreamed of, your people are doomed. And do you know how I know this?"

She didn't respond, which was good because it had in fact been a rhetorical question.

"I know this because my people built pretty much every civilization in this galaxy, and we reached the point where we can identify a doomed one pretty much on sight."

That wasn't a lie either, there were several very obvious indicators, and from everything he'd learned from tapping into their ship's database, the Travelers hit pretty much every one of them.

"You use the Wraith as an excuse for why you can never settle down and rebuild, but they never chase you."

Which had been extraordinarily confusing until he'd compared the Travelers movements to data from various still active planetary monitoring satellites scattered across the galaxy.

"And they never chase you, because you serve an extraordinarily useful purpose for them. You see, you're basically carrion eaters, you follow behind the Wraith, and then after they cull a world and leave, you move in and strip the world of various supplies and technology to keep your fleet going."

The Wraith probably loved it, after all, it had to save them so much time not having to stick around and clean up so the survivors couldn't just jumpstart themselves back to the general level of technology they had possessed before the culling.

What was worse, their genomes told the story of a group that had strict rules against rescuing survivors. Something he was only really giving them a pass on because it was clearly understandable as likely being one of the main reasons the Wraith hadn't actually hunted them down.

"But of course, you're running into the problem that it's not sustainable. The Wraith are slowly reaching a preindustrial equilibrium point with the civilizations they harvest, as the ones that have the drive to reach beyond that in the time between cullings, attempt various desperate plans to stop the cullings and end up being wiped out completely."

Larrin was looking anywhere but at him now, a sure enough sign of shame to confirm both that he'd put the puzzle pieces together correctly, and that she at least wasn't a sociopath.

"But that's not why you're doomed." Eventus went on, his tone as judgemental as he could make it. "You're doomed because you gave up trying to be better or find another way and just accepted the pattern."

"Now get moving." He ordered, pointing out the door. "So I can dump you on the one group in this galaxy who are experienced in breaking others out of patterns they've been stuck in for thousands of years."

Thankfully Larrin began walking without any further protest, and they nearly made it to the ring room before she spoke up again. "We did try you know. Hollowed out asteroids, hidden away space stations, radiation blasted worlds near the galactic core. But every time a culling came around the Wraith would find us."

That was mildly interesting to hear, and suggested the Wraith had developed some new way to track humans across long distances in the past ten thousand years since they hadn't possessed that sort of capability when his own people had fought them.

"I'm only judging a little." Eventus said, motioning for her to stand in the clearly outlined ring circle. "And no, I'm not going to tell the others what your people do."

Mainly because there would be a very real risk they'd be branded as Wraith worshipers by various denizens of the Pegasus galaxy, and those sorts of witch hunts never ended well for anyone involved.

"Keep your limbs inside the indicated area if you don't want to lose them." Eventus warned as he joined Larrin in the circle and triggered his remote to activate the rings.

The sheer speed of the rings rising up seemed to startle the woman slightly, but she thankfully heeded his warning as they disappeared with a flash to reappear inside one of Atlantis's orbital transport rooms where members of the Atlantis expedition were already standing to meet them.

"Welcome to Atlantis." Eventus announced with a grin as the rings fell back into the floor. "You'll have to forgive the mess, it's been ten thousand years since we cleaned and our current staff is a bit overwhelmed just keeping the lights on."

"Funny." Sheppard drolled, glancing over to Doctor Weir, who seemed to be focusing on Larrin with a somewhat unhappy look on her face.

"Eventus." Weir began as she took a cautious step forward. "It's good to see you back. But what's this about Space Pirates?"

"We caught them in the middle of trying to steal the Navis." Eventus offered with a jerk of his head over to Larrin. "This is Larrin, the captain of the ship that was making the attempt."

"It was our ship." Larrin said, turning an annoyed glare to him. "We found it first, and were in the middle of reactivating it when you showed up trying to claim ownership."

"She doesn't actually believe I'm a Lantean." Eventus offered with an apologetic shrug, shoving the cuffed woman towards Sheppard a little harder than was probably warranted. "But anti-piracy duties fall under the military's purview, so congratulations Sheppard, she's your problem now."


------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Author's Notes: More of the Travelers backstory comes out because of some quality sleuthing by our resident Ancient, and Sheppard gets left holding the bag.
 
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Scavengers that feed off the desolated industrial remains of human civilizations culled by the Wraith is definitely a great explanation, on both why the Wraith don't bother with them and how they keep going.
 
Okay. It's rare I would say this. But for The Travellers of Stargate Atlantis in this version of it?

The fate of The Rag Tag Fleet from the 2003 Battlestar Galactica is too good for them.

Fuck those Vultures and the Starships they flew in on.
 
The only thing I take issue with is the lack of rescuing survivors ... but even that can be explained and justified to an extent by their overpopulation problem.
Plus the fact that the Wraith probably left stealthed observation platforms to watch and would have come back and jumped on them if they tried.

Scavenging dead worlds? The dead are dead can cannot be helped. Leaving their stuff to rot and rust is pointless.


Although ... I really don't think there would have been that many worlds reaching the industrial age very often, and certainly not in the more recent periods of hibernation.
After all, without something like the Hoffan vaults or the Genii underground habitation bunkers, a rebuilding population would be starting iron age, well before the Renaissance equivalent. If that. And that kind of rapid recovery and development would stand out as an anomaly for closer and more frequent observation (and infiltration via worshipper).


Most worlds would get caught and culled before they got beyond steam and coal ... except after thousands of years, I would expect that most inhabited worlds would have used up most of their readily accessible ores long ago.
Maybe offworld mining colonies would be a thing for them, and possibly how later cycle more advanced worlds got a jump start on their advancement.
 
The references to other work dampens my enthusiasm for this story every time I see a new one.

Your story so you do you, but I honestly loathe that shit. Especially Star Trek.
 
The references to other work dampens my enthusiasm for this story every time I see a new one.

Your story so you do you, but I honestly loathe that shit. Especially Star Trek.

Why? It's not like those references are out of place. Nor are they over the top. We make TV show and book references all the time in real life.

Heck, Stargate itself had plenty of references. It was funny listening to Sam tell O'Neil about "MacGyvering" something.
 
The references to other work dampens my enthusiasm for this story every time I see a new one.

Your story so you do you, but I honestly loathe that shit. Especially Star Trek.
What references are you talking about? I don't see anything in this chapter, or from any of the recent chapters that is a reference to one of their other stories.

Are you talking about the story mentioning other popular media from Earth instesd of pretending it doesn't exist?

Do you mean the story links in their signature?
 
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But what's this about Space Pirates?

"No creating Samus Aran to eradicate them, either, we can't afford to have the planet blown up."

After all, without something like the Hoffan vaults or the Genii underground habitation bunkers, a rebuilding population would be starting iron age, well before the Renaissance equivalent.

While I disagree on the pre-Renaissance thing -- that was honestly as much due to social changes as anything else, which woudn't be forgotten entirely even in such a disaster -- things would be far worse than that, especially in an era of even remotely-advanced metallurgy.

The more metal is mined up and converted into alloys, the harder it is to reuse it if a civilization is knocked back hard enough -- it's multiple elements all mixed together into who-knows-*what* proportions, so the chemical and mechanical properties are unreliable. Oh, and the easily-accessible basic ores, which can be mined with the remaining known technology? Already used up.

Any other species evolving on this planet after a sudden extinction of humanity would be hard-pressed to progress past the Neolithic Era, imo.

The references to other work dampens my enthusiasm for this story every time I see a new one.

Your story so you do you, but I honestly loathe that shit. Especially Star Trek.

Even Don Quioxte broke the fourth wall to some degree. If you don't like works referencing other franchises, congrats, capitalist monopolies on creativity have thoroughly trained you into finding it weird.
 
Scavengers that feed off the desolated industrial remains of human civilizations culled by the Wraith is definitely a great explanation, on both why the Wraith don't bother with them and how they keep going.
The Travelers, like a number of things that showed up for one or two episodes, are complicated in that leave me to figure out how they might work outside of the television writers just saying "they exist".

Though to be fair they do have some actual trading partners, though it's more a case of "food for medicine" type trades with various preindustrial civilizations who don't really know they're trading with the Travelers.


The only thing I take issue with is the lack of rescuing survivors ... but even that can be explained and justified to an extent by their overpopulation problem.

Plus the fact that the Wraith probably left stealthed observation platforms to watch and would have come back and jumped on them if they tried.
In most cases the Wraith leave survivors to repopulate various planets for the next culling. The Travelers rightly guessed that the Wraith wouldn't have taken kindly to it if they had started removing those survivors from various worlds.

Although ... I really don't think there would have been that many worlds reaching the industrial age very often, and certainly not in the more recent periods of hibernation.

After all, without something like the Hoffan vaults or the Genii underground habitation bunkers, a rebuilding population would be starting iron age, well before the Renaissance equivalent. If that. And that kind of rapid recovery and development would stand out as an anomaly for closer and more frequent observation (and infiltration via worshipper).
Sateda was probably around the 1920s, the two planets Lucius showed up on looked to be in the late 1700s early 1800s, the Manarian's had electricity, and the Tanarians looked to be in the late 1800s early 1900s. 🤷‍♂️

They also tended to happen upon a handful of "dead" worlds that looked to been in the 1900s.


The references to other work dampens my enthusiasm for this story every time I see a new one.

Your story so you do you, but I honestly loathe that shit. Especially Star Trek.
Why? It's not like those references are out of place. Nor are they over the top. We make TV show and book references all the time in real life.

Heck, Stargate itself had plenty of references. It was funny listening to Sam tell O'Neil about "MacGyvering" something.
^^This.

Even the bit with Eventus naming the ship "Enterprise" was more or less just an alternate version of what happened in the show itself.


View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZVK1kge2JUM
 
I'm laughing so hard right now. This is the first time I've seen someone complain about references to other works when the base work is pretty much real life with the same pop culture.

Not to mention the base work makes these references all the time. And the episode "200" which is all pop culture references
 
Comparing them to cleaner-fish might be a kinder example, but it's also a little too kind.
They don't crack open the metaphorical bones to feast on the marrow, they pick the "unhealthy" bits of and leave the rest in a "healthier" state.
By the Wraith's definition of healthy.

Maybe have this be how the Wraith describe them instead? They'll probably still call them scavengers (derogatory) to their faces as that's just what the Wraith are like, but this is something I could see them using to inflict emotional damage on a trapped member of the Travelers that they're about to eat "for the flavor of despair" or something.
 
I don't like Dragon Prince and Star Trek.

Referencing other shows breaks immersion for me and feels like a cheap gimmicky memberberry joke most of the time.

There's ways that I could get behind it, if it's done in a subtle way, but not from what I've seen here.
 
Wow, the Travelers are actually pretty big bastards.

Like, BattleTech pirates or Brotherhood of Steel levels of bastards sans the racism, authoritarianism, and slavery though even that's just assuming. Picking at the trash of long dead civilizations is one thing, but actively raiding planets in the immediate aftermath of an invasion is something else.

I've got to wonder how much of the dead in the aftermath of Wraith invasions are as a direct result of Traveler attacks immediately after, as they worked to secure the "rightful salvage" they "found first" from peoples' own homeworlds.

I don't like Dragon Prince and Star Trek.

Referencing other shows breaks immersion for me and feels like a cheap gimmicky memberberry joke most of the time.

There's ways that I could get behind it, if it's done in a subtle way, but not from what I've seen here.


View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WYZSDprLUNc

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UCNDdlCo4rA

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vTCmOHxWbKE

Stargate's always had those kinds of pop culture references, in no small part because Jack O'Neill, the lead of the flagship show of the franchise is a massive nerd. To go out of the way to avoid them would ironically make the fic less accurate to the tone of the show.
 
I don't like Dragon Prince and Star Trek.

Referencing other shows breaks immersion for me and feels like a cheap gimmicky memberberry joke most of the time.

There's ways that I could get behind it, if it's done in a subtle way, but not from what I've seen here.
In concerns to calling the "Elf" Rayla, I am bad at thinking up names.

For characters in stories, I usually find an "appropriate" list like the roman gods I'm using for some of the Ancients, or just hit the button on various random name generators till I find a name I think fits the character in question.

My Self insert did not have a random name generator that wasn't completely full of names that were either horrible or the equivalent of "Jane". So when he had to figure out a name for his elf, he went to the "list of elf characters who's names I can recall" and picked one out from there. So that wasn't the character memeberrying, it was him stealing a name because he couldn't think of one.


Wow, the Travelers are actually pretty big bastards.

Like, BattleTech pirates or Brotherhood of Steel levels of bastards sans the racism, authoritarianism, and slavery though even that's just assuming. Picking at the trash of long dead civilizations is one thing, but actively raiding planets in the immediate aftermath of an invasion is something else.

I've got to wonder how much of the dead in the aftermath of Wraith invasions are as a direct result of Traveler attacks immediately after, as they worked to secure the "rightful salvage" they "found first" from peoples' own homeworlds.
Surprisingly few, in general they tried to avoid areas with people who might see them doing it so the idea wouldn't spread that they were servants of the Wraith.
 
The Travelers, like a number of things that showed up for one or two episodes, are complicated in that leave me to figure out how they might work outside of the television writers just saying "they exist".

Though to be fair they do have some actual trading partners, though it's more a case of "food for medicine" type trades with various preindustrial civilizations who don't really know they're trading with the Travelers.



In most cases the Wraith leave survivors to repopulate various planets for the next culling. The Travelers rightly guessed that the Wraith wouldn't have taken kindly to it if they had started removing those survivors from various worlds.


Sateda was probably around the 1920s, the two planets Lucius showed up on looked to be in the late 1700s early 1800s, the Manarian's had electricity, and the Tanarians looked to be in the late 1800s early 1900s. 🤷‍♂️

They also tended to happen upon a handful of "dead" worlds that looked to been in the 1900s.




^^This.

Even the bit with Eventus naming the ship "Enterprise" was more or less just an alternate version of what happened in the show itself.


View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZVK1kge2JUM


SG1 also made the same joke, which was actually the clip I was expecting.


View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CIBXUDbamQg
 
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