- Location
- Austria
True enough.
[x] One Years Supply.
[X] Small Residential District (-5 Gold, -2 Wood, +2 Housing)
City Building in Middle-Earth
- Thread starter Sayle
- Start date
-
- Tags
- lotr middle-earth
True enough.
[x] One Years Supply.
[X] Small Residential District (-5 Gold, -2 Wood, +2 Housing)
- Location
- Voidbetweenstars
[X] Small Residential District (-5 Gold, -2 Wood, +2 Housing)
[X] Small Civic District (-5 Gold, -2 Wood)
[X] Small Civic District (-5 Gold, -2 Wood)
Night_stalker
Slava Ukraini!
- Pronouns
- He/Him
[x] One Years Supply.
[x] Small Civic District (-5 Gold, -2 Wood)
[x] Small Civic District (-5 Gold, -2 Wood)
Resource gathering is all sustainable.
It's 0 with the trading.
- Location
- Reno Nv
[x] One Years Supply.
[x] Small Civic District (-5 Gold, -2 Wood)
[x] Small Civic District (-5 Gold, -2 Wood)
Yes, but you need to have the food to 'spawn' another population. Otherwise they go live in shanties.
A @Sayle LotR quest? Sweet! I still miss Foundations of Stone.
Wouldn't a disproportionately sized proportion of our surviving male population be veterans of the battle of Fornost, or members of the king's retinue? Given how hard-pressed Arnor was towards the end, and what happens in cultures fighting existential wars, I'd expect nearly every male (and probably a lot of the women) of age to have some training actually. I mean, the Dúnedain in the OTL became the Rangers of the North. Even diminished in numbers and in stature, the heirs of Elendil the Tall are formidable amongst men.
To cut to the point, would it be possible to pick some of our surviving retinue and our most experienced veterans, and set up Dúnedain Seal Team 6? I'm not thinking a large force here, more a small company of rangers who can function as scouts, patrol the roads and watch the borders, and eventually perhaps a small but elite expeditionary force. Pretty much what the Rangers of the North did originally, but this time with a home operating base rather than a series of encampments plus Imladris.
Speaking of, we should send an embassy to the Elves in Imladris and in the Havens. Let them know how we're doing.
Wouldn't a disproportionately sized proportion of our surviving male population be veterans of the battle of Fornost, or members of the king's retinue? Given how hard-pressed Arnor was towards the end, and what happens in cultures fighting existential wars, I'd expect nearly every male (and probably a lot of the women) of age to have some training actually. I mean, the Dúnedain in the OTL became the Rangers of the North. Even diminished in numbers and in stature, the heirs of Elendil the Tall are formidable amongst men.
To cut to the point, would it be possible to pick some of our surviving retinue and our most experienced veterans, and set up Dúnedain Seal Team 6? I'm not thinking a large force here, more a small company of rangers who can function as scouts, patrol the roads and watch the borders, and eventually perhaps a small but elite expeditionary force. Pretty much what the Rangers of the North did originally, but this time with a home operating base rather than a series of encampments plus Imladris.
Speaking of, we should send an embassy to the Elves in Imladris and in the Havens. Let them know how we're doing.
This is true, but most have taken up...well, fishing and farming. It's worth pointing out that only Arvedui's retinue escaped to Forochel, but yes, there are veterans. It's just they're not especially well equipped and are only part-timing as militia.
I mean, veterans of the war against the Witch King and members of the personal retinue of the Chief of the Dúnedain are probably some of the most fell and hardy warriors in creation at this point in time. Outside of Imladris and those who are counted mighty in the other Elven realms. I get that a lot of people are trying to rebuild or forget war, and we don't have great store of arms right now, but a force of rangers doesn't seem implausible given that's what happened canonically. They don't need to be heavily equipped or armoured for the job they'd be doing.
I'm not trying to munchkin here, but it does seem slightly farcical for us to have to progress through standard empire builder tiers of "now your militia have sharpened sticks and know which way the pointy end goes" when they're the friggin' Dúnedain. A fair number of the King's retinue will be able to read minds at a glance, and perhaps even break lesser wills with sustained eye contact. These are not your average bears, they are magical steely eyed elf-men some of whom probably have half a century or more of fighting experience. Apologies if I've misunderstood here.
I'll fight on the mind reading, primarily on the basis that the majority of the population will have interbred with Middle-Men by this point, with only the royal line keeping the bloodline pure. But also that the mind-reading is the purview of powerful elves, and for Men of elf descent any such abilities will derive from their position and strength of will - the Chief of the Dunedain, for example. Rest assured that if it comes to actual conflict rather than routine security work that you'll have access to your military veterans, but otherwise the general population is keeping the peace.
By elf-men, I meant it more descriptively in that all the Dunedain are essentially elf-men, both via descent from Elros and also as it's noted that it's actually very difficult to tell Numenoreans apart from Noldor if you don't know how to spot the difference. They have a look to them, olive skin, black hair and steel-grey eyes, which is essentially unlike any other phenotype on earth, it was notable even in Gondor in the Third Age. It's true that the bloodline has thinned (although this is a somewhat more Lamarckian process than a matter of pure genetics, arguably), but a thousand years before the events of LotR, and in a region which notably kept its bloodlines purer, a lot of our nobility should probably still be relatively "pure"*. Mind-reading isn't going to be hugely commonplace but even in Gondor a thousand years hence, both Faramir and Denethor had it. I would imagine Arvedui and at least a few of his closest kinsmen can, amongst other things, although "many" may have been a stretch, you're right.
I get what you're saying, but for suppressing raids a small elite force of rangers is kind of the ideal tool. Not even necessarily killing anyone, just going into their camps near-invisibly and messing with stuff while they're asleep to spook the hell out of them would do it. I'm not asking for a freebie here, either; I get that this is something we might need to do work to set up, but I'm asking what work we'd need to do in order to set it up.
*(On a side note, I'd imagine that essentially all of them also have some kinf og descent from Isildur at this point, given how inbred nobilities can get, and especially when contracting due to population decline and losses from war.)
- Location
- Austria
To be fair, without generations in the wilderness, would they even be such a great rangers?
I imagine they would be more numerous (which is not saying much
) and better equipped then LotR-era dunedain, and more knowledgeable about numenorian lore like athelas, but worse rangers.
To be fair, without generations in the wilderness, would they even be such a great rangers?
I imagine they would be more numerous (which is not saying much
Well they'd been fighting the Witch King in a kingdom that had largely fallen and turned to wilderness for a while at that point. Arvedui and his men also lived on the North Downs and staged an insurgency there for a while. But you're right, they're probably not quite on the level of the Rangers of the North of the time of Lord of the Rings, at least in terms of fieldcraft. Which is not to say we shouldn't try to get a head start.
- Location
- Austria
I mean, having more of old numenorian weapons with them left and more people remembering numenorian quasi-magical knowledge like 'that one plant that can cure basically anything from PTSD to curse to slowing nazgul's heart-seeking dagger' is kind of big deal, so I am not sure LotR-era ones are all better.
Actually, athelas-using medics can be our greatest export to the Gondor.
I mean, having more of old numenorian weapons with them left and more people remembering numenorian quasi-magical knowledge like 'that one plant that can cure basically anything from PTSD to curse to slowing nazgul's heart-seeking dagger' is kind of big deal, so I am not sure LotR-era ones are all better.
Actually, athelas-using medics can be our greatest export to the Gondor.
"The hands of the king are the hands of a healer" certainly suggests that there is more to the use of athelas than 'know what this plant does'. I'd be interested to know if Aragorn's use of athelas would have been nearly as effective on, say, a soldier from Rhun who would not count Aragorn as his rightful liege. Metaphysically speaking I'm pretty sure Aragorn was essentially pitting his authority, lineage, and spiritual strength against that of the Nazgul. There's also that historically there was this big thing about how the King laying on hands could cure diseases, which is probably where this idea originated from. But by the time of Return of the King, athelas was considered a useless herb in Gondor.
PS: How winter works has been added to the opening post.
Last edited:
- Location
- Reno Nv
Uh, @Sayle, just a quick question, but are we going to stagnate like the rest of middle earth or improve. I mean so far the quest is amazing, but are we going to improve our tech level or are we going to stay in a proto-medieval level of tech. Either is fine, just wondering. the question came from a awesome changing story I read, called Saruman of many devices, he with the help of bullshit panacur, were able to not only improve, but excel, and not stagnate like most kingdoms are.
[x] Small Civic District (-5 Gold, -2 Wood)
The Dunedain built Orthanc, a nigh-indestructible skyscraper, and two giant statues that were bigger than the Statue of Liberty, among many other things. Proto-medieval tech my ass.
EDIT: Assuming you were calling Middle-Earth tech in general to be 'proto-medieval' that is. If it just this currently-meager settlement, well, what we else we can expect from a glorified village?
Last edited:
- Location
- nz
[x] One Years Supply.
[x] Small Civic District (-5 Gold, -2 Wood)
[x] Small Civic District (-5 Gold, -2 Wood)
- Location
- Reno Nv
Ah, yes, quite. Tell me do those statues come to life to whack their enemies? Build their homes, farm their fields, do something other that just stand there as the largest measuring stick. No? Well, the egyptians did the same thing, They are called the pyramids. The largest vanity project in africa, in ancient times.
Aeir/Number III
Unsustainable Gloom Engine
- Location
- America
A statue is significantly harder to keep standing straight than a literal giant pile of bricks. In terms of scale, these statues are smaller. In terms of detail, arguably higher. In terms of SCIENCE? The only point against them is that they're built into opposite cliff-faces, apparently, which would've made the project much easier. The Colossus and the Statue of Zeus were Wonders of the World for a reason.
But that aside, what part of the massive stone citadels rivaling or even surprassing the height of modern architecture did you not understand? How about the intricate temperature disparity-based ventilation systems of the dwarfs, and their own stone and metal craft. Did you know those giant pillars in the First Hall of Moria once held entire buildings suspended upon them? If indeed they do not *still* and we simply can't see them.
There's much more to science than automation and metallurgy.
As for the USE of a nigh-impregnable citadel of stone... if you can't figure out the obvious, there's no hope for you, but have you considered the myriad advancements in construction and engineering which its very existence necessitates, and what alternative uses they could possibly be put to?
As a side note, the pyramids were also considered a technological marvel for their time. And the existence of arches, great causeways, domes, and Saruman's gunpowder bomb would indicate Middle Earth is - at the earliest - proto-renaissance.
I think it would surprise a lot of people whose impressions are based more upon the films what an enchanted place Gondor even in the late Third Age was, populated by a mystical people. In Return of the King after the defeat of Sauron, among other things the Gondorians give the hobbits magic walking sticks, with the "virtue of finding and returning", wherever you are. This isn't seen as a big deal or anything, it's a fairly casual thing. In the streets of Minas Tirith it's still not uncommon to hear conversations in Sindarin. Right now we're about a thousand years before that time period.
The Gondorians and Northern Dúnedain even look noticeably different from other men. They age differently, staying in their prime for much longer even if lifespans are not lengthened, are very tall, have olive skin, black hair, and steel-grey eyes, so distinct that the hobbits thought every man of Gondor looked like Boromir. This should probably be taken as an indication not that they literally all had identical features to Boromir, but more that the Gondorian look is so foreign that they all kind of looked the same to them. Morwen was called 'Steelsheen' among the Rohirrim for her Gondorian look, and Éomer and Lothíriel's son gained the same epithet. It's extremely noticeable and remarkable to the Rohirrim.
Also something of a kick in the teeth for a certain tiny strain of LotR fans, the Dúnedain are explicitly not white in the Anglo-Nordic mold. Just putting that out there.
*(A good post about this which goes into more detail from very good tumblr for LotR stuff in general and Dúnedain stuff in particular.)
The wild men of the Drúedain, who were disliked by the Rohirrim and the Gondorians in latter years but were actually counted amongst the Edain (the original kindred of humans who resisted Morgoth and who the Numenoreans and some others descend), built statues that walked and killed orcs attempting to encroach on their forest. And the Drúedain were primitive savages in comparison to the Numenoreans. Don't underestimate the crafts of the Edain.
The Gondorians and Northern Dúnedain even look noticeably different from other men. They age differently, staying in their prime for much longer even if lifespans are not lengthened, are very tall, have olive skin, black hair, and steel-grey eyes, so distinct that the hobbits thought every man of Gondor looked like Boromir. This should probably be taken as an indication not that they literally all had identical features to Boromir, but more that the Gondorian look is so foreign that they all kind of looked the same to them. Morwen was called 'Steelsheen' among the Rohirrim for her Gondorian look, and Éomer and Lothíriel's son gained the same epithet. It's extremely noticeable and remarkable to the Rohirrim.
Also something of a kick in the teeth for a certain tiny strain of LotR fans, the Dúnedain are explicitly not white in the Anglo-Nordic mold. Just putting that out there.
*(A good post about this which goes into more detail from very good tumblr for LotR stuff in general and Dúnedain stuff in particular.)
The wild men of the Drúedain, who were disliked by the Rohirrim and the Gondorians in latter years but were actually counted amongst the Edain (the original kindred of humans who resisted Morgoth and who the Numenoreans and some others descend), built statues that walked and killed orcs attempting to encroach on their forest. And the Drúedain were primitive savages in comparison to the Numenoreans. Don't underestimate the crafts of the Edain.
Easter
Laziest lazier
- Location
- Bed
Well thas the thing isnt it while they do seem to have some wonders, but they are also sorely lacking in other areas.
*Edit Also i think he means in the tech/culture department not in magic statues department.
Last edited:
They were larger than pyramids. And still intact and unmarred, unlike the pyramids. If you want something used in war, the seven circles of Minas Tirith? Or the myriad other fortifications? Which Orthanc was part of IIRC, and Argonath too, IIRC, was built for purpose related to intimidating enemies. Tell me of a proto-medieval cultures IRL that build like that? Best case there were Romans and China but did they built towers that can take multilple crash by ents without even scratched? Or tell me of proto-medieval cultures who sailed as far ranging as the Dunedain?
In fairness, Dunedain of the third age has regressed quite a bit.
That is the nature of technology. We IRL can't build statues that come to life like wildmen either.