City Building in Middle-Earth
- Thread starter Sayle
- Start date
-
- Tags
- lotr middle-earth
The phenotypical reference point Tolkien gives for the Numenoreans are classical Romans, classical Greeks and classical Egyptians, not modern day Italians and Greeks. There is a significant difference and one Tolkien himself would have well understood. Those photos you've linked are also a bit misleading; a large number of Greeks and Italians look significantly more olive or tan than that. Now, any nitpicking discussion of what precisely defines "white" has a tendency to get a tad uncomfortable for obvious reasons, and it's also an ultimately quite arbitrary category in which the legacy of 19th century racism still looms large.* But I think anyone should be able to agree that this or this does not look historically Anglo-Norse. There is a noticeable difference between olive or tan skin, dark black hair, and steel grey eyes, the traditional look of the Dúnedain, and fair skin, blond, brown or occasionally red hair, and blue eyes, the traditional look of Northmen, the Rohirrim, and children of the House of Haleth in general.
It's certainly pluasible there might have been some trend towards a paler skin tone and more varied hair colours as the Dunedain mixed with other peoples of Middle Earth, but we know that in Gondor even by the time of the War of the Ring, they still looked very alike and remarkably different from the Breeland men the hobbits were used to seeing. Regardless, we're definitely not talking people who look like stereotypical WASPs, as so often imagined by both critics and certain fans of LotR, and this is important to remember.
As for the other thing, I would presume the Anghraine was including South Gondor in her estimate, yes. Given that she was speaking about the historical span of Gondor as a kingdom and what it says about the cultural reference point they're drawn from (a big one being Byzantium, which controlled Turkey for most of its history and then lost it, just as Gondor did with South Gondor) the fact that they no longer controlled South Gondor by the time of the War of the Ring isn't hugely relevant.
*(On a side note, you would not believe some of the forums that even fairly innocuous google image searches like "South Italian People" can apparently get you to. Your own "Italian People" image seems to be from some sort of odd Euronationalist forum.)
There are a number of conflicting indicators here and it's always been a point of contention amongst fans. Ultimately at some point we do have to admit that there are some things we might uncomfortable which are still true.
Elrond outright calls the Dúnedain out for miscegenation as one of the reasons for their decline, for example. He by any standard is probably a reliable source, being both one of the wisest loremasters in Middle Earth and a Númenórean himself. There are a couple of other mentions in the Akallabêth and elsewhere that I recall. It's also certainly true that Eldacar, and half-Northman, was in many ways more Númenórean than the most pureblooded Gondorian nobility, and that the ultimate causative factor of the decline of Dúnedain was their fall from grace and having left Númenor itself. The best reconciliation I've come up with for this is to look at Tolkien's theory of "blood" in this context as being as much Lamarckian as it is Darwinian.
Actions and beliefs are what are passed through and define bloodlines, thus Eldacar, who was virtuous and good, inherited as much of the grace of Númenor in exile as any man might hope too, whilst the "pure" Gondorian nobility began to fail due to their fear and hatred of death in their hearts. Likewise mass mixing of bloodlines with lesser Men can cause the dissipation of the Dúnedain race, not necessarily because of "blood purity" in a racialist sense but because of a slow weakening of their dedication to Eru and the remembered beliefs and practices of their homeland. If these can be preserved, as they probably were under say Elendil, then intermarriage with Middle Men is likely less problematic, especially since they are still ultimately Edain. Although I cannot say in all honesty that I believe Tolkien would have thought that Dúnedain interbreeding with say, Easterners or Southrons would ever lead to good things; there are some problematic things in the text from a modern perspective that we just have to accept as being what they are.
Sweet love of god that sounds time consuming.
I really like this style a lot as well, I think. It has a very Tolkienic feel to it.I always trusted that you'd account for the river, my point on the defences was more that it potentially obviates a lot of the advantages of a tiered set-up. An ideal tiered defensive schema (like Minas Anor) forces your enemy to overcome each tier, which collectively can be an immense challenge. But with a river to our backs, if our riverward defences are weaker than going through X number of tiers, a rational enemy will always prefer to attack them.
I would tend to agree with your logic here. Population seems to be our crucial bottleneck right now and will likely continue to be for a while.
[X] Sell 2 Wood (TA1983-TA1984) [Market Price+1]
[X] Buy 2 Food (TA1983-TA1984) [Market Price-1]
[X] Buy 2 Stone [Market Price] (Renew Contract)
[X] Lower Taxes (1 Gold per 2 Population) [+50% Growth][/QUOTE]
More population will grow our tax base and also allow us to do more things. I would honestly not be inclined to raise these taxes again for the foreseeable future, unless there is a major project we want to complete or a war we need to fight. Growth should be our priority for the moment.
To be fair, I forgot which kingdom we came from.
And we cant be the only remnants from an entire kingdom.
So what I was getting at was that our little antics are unlikely to butterfly away Aragorn.
Its important to note that people in Ancient times were in many cases significantly different that to today. For example, the people who lived in what is today Turkey were pretty much identical to greeks before the Turks arrived, colonised the place and exterminated or forced out the people who lived there before.
And if you look at specific places, like South italy, you do get people who are more tan/olive skinned, especially if you look at Sicily, however the majority of Italians and Greeks are very similar to their northern cousins.
Just look up the desciption of the Spartans given during the time period of classical Greece by various Greek writers. The Spartans described had blonde, red and light brown hair as well as green, blue or light brown eyes. This was attributed to their Dorian heritage, which was shared by much of Greece. These were also characteristics shared by many central and northern Greeks as well.
Central and Northern Italians also have many of these traits and if you get up to the north of Italy, from MIlan to Venice, there is very, very little difference between Northern Italians and their French and German neighbours.
Also, saying 'Egyptian' when talking about ancient egyptian is a bit of a broad brush as the nation was remarkably multi-ethnic. The Book of Gates describes the 4 'Great Peoples' of Egypt, which were as follows:
The light beige/bronze skinned Egyptian people, the black skinned Nubians and the two very pale skinned Canaanites and North Africans from what is modern day Libya.
To use some of your images, Italians and Greeks look far more like this: http://beauty-around.com/images/sampledata/Greek_Man/1.JPG
Than they do in your other images. We also have to take into account the impact the Islamic Caliphates and Turkey had on Italy and Greece respectively with reference to arab implantation/colonisationm which were mainstays of Turkish and Arab invasions and expansion. This can muddy the water when talking about how ancient Italians and Greeks looked due to the mixing of the various peoples over the last 600 years.
Last edited:
I'm not really sure how much of this relates to the actual topic at hand. Northern Italians and northern Greeks in the post-classical era are not the people Tolkien was using as reference. I also question your assertion that all most modern Italians or Greeks look that way, although it makes no difference one way or the other to what we're discussing. I would also suggest you learn to type in paragraphs when you post; it makes it more pleasant for people to read.
When Tolkien refers to Egyptians, he is referring to the Egyptian people (bottom row of the linked picture above), not the other peoples depicted by the Egyptians as explicitly other. Anyway at this point I think this is veering off-topic a tad, so we should probably leave it here or continue elsewhere.
When Tolkien refers to Egyptians, he is referring to the Egyptian people (bottom row of the linked picture above), not the other peoples depicted by the Egyptians as explicitly other. Anyway at this point I think this is veering off-topic a tad, so we should probably leave it here or continue elsewhere.
Late TA 1982 - TA 1984
As the end of TA 1982 approaches it becomes rapidly apparent that your choice to import food may have been prescient - it is barely halfway through autumn when it begins to noticeably chill. The next months are an exercise in misery as bitterly cold winds come from the north in what many call the work of the Witch King, leaving frosts which kill the crops in the fields and force even the men inside. You are forced to open the storehouses to feed the people, but fortunately your minor surplus means that it is not as damaging as it might have been otherwise.
The pinched expression of the merchants when the arrive from South Gondor suggests that they regret their bargaining - the increased price of food that you pay for their shipment does not outweigh their losses for purchasing your lumber. Still, they are businessmen and sail away again with their goods, leaving you with no surplus wood to use for the planned residential expansion. This is not so great a problem as it might seem, for there is no need yet for such a thing. The remainder of TA 1983 passes without much incident, then winter comes again.
Although not quite so cold as the previous year, it is still unduly severe. There is worry that the crops will fail again, and there is certainly no shortage of worried farmers petitioning that something be done - unfortunately you cannot command the weather. But when spring arrives the worst has not come to pass, although your storehouses of fire hood were practically emptied over the winter. The ships from Dol Amroth arrive with an even more surly demeanour than before, for the survival of the harvest means you pay a pittance compared to their need for lumber, which has only increased in the face of two back-to-back years of high consumption. The last two years have been unpleasant to live through, but have done wonders for your treasury, even if the deal is now over.
But with the end of one arrangement, others must be made. Traders from Pelargir make landfall this time, as the guilds of Dol Amroth have had quite enough of you for the time being. You negotiate fiercely and settle on a six-year contract with the following terms:
[ ] Buy 2 Food (Market Price)
[ ] Sell 2 Wood (Market Price)
[ ] Sell 1 Lebethron (Market Price)
[ ] Buy 2 Stone (Market Price-1)
[ ] Buy 2 Metal (Market Price)
But there is an additional problem to address, which is that in light of your tax policies the population has expanded and many have nowhere to live. Without the wood needed, stone is the only option. It's that or let them construct their own ramshackle housing, but it is ultimately a question of priorities.
[ ] Build a Stone Residential District (-5 Gold, -2 Stone, +2 Housing)
--[ ] Open the docks (Shipbuilding Available - Increased Trade Quantities)
--[ ] Corral wild sheep and start shepherding (-2 Gold, +2 Food, +1 Income)
[ ] Clear new land for farms, bypassing the housing issue (-2 Gold, +3 Food, +1 Housing)
With that matter settled, it's just a matter of planning future expansion.
---Available Options to Queue---
[ ] Build an Inner Wall (-5 Gold. -4 Wood OR -8 Stone)
--[ ] Build an Outer Wall (-10 Gold. -8 Wood OR -16 Stone)
[ ] Build Docks (-5 Gold, -4 Stone, +1 Shipbuilding)
[ ] Renovate City Center (-5 Gold, -2 Housing, -6 Stone)
--[ ] Upgrade to Stone Walls (-4 Stone)
----[ ] Convert to Administrative Center (+5 Taxes)
----[ ] Convert to Palace (+5 Prestige)
----[ ] Convert to Citadel (Defensive Bonuses)
[ ] Small Residential District (-5 Gold, -2 Wood, +2 Housing)
--[ ] Convert to Stone Housing (-2 Gold, +2 Wood Store, -2 Stone, +1 Prestige)
[ ] Small Stone Residential District (-5 Gold, -2 Stone, +2 Housing, +1 Prestige)
--[ ] Convert to Noble District (-2 Gold, -1 Housing, +3 Prestige)
[ ] Small Mercantile District (-5 Gold, -2 Wood, +2 Taxes)
--[ ] Convert to Stone (-5 Gold, -2 Stone, +2 Wood Store, +2 Taxes, +1 Prestige)
[ ] Small Stone Mercantile District (-5 Gold, -2 Stone, +2 Taxes, +1 Prestige)
--[ ] Establish Woodworker's Quarter (-2 Gold, -2 Taxes, 2 Lebethron Converted to 2 Hardwood per turn)
[ ] Small Civic District (-5 Gold, -2 Wood)
--[ ] Convert to Stone (-2 Gold, +2 Wood Store, -2 Stone)
[ ] Small Stone Civic District (-5 Gold, -2 Stone, +1 Prestige)
----[ ] Establish Houses of Healing (-2 Gold, +2 Prosperity)
----[ ] Establish Baths (-2 Gold, +1 Prosperity, +2 Prestige)
----[ ] Establish Barracks (-2 Gold, +2 Rule of Law, +1 Prosperity)
Ost Falasuin
Population: 6
Prosperity: Poor
Rule of Law: Average
Military Strength: Weak/Average
Defenses: Minimal
Districts
City Center
Small Residential District
Small Mercantile District
Small Civic District - Courts
Docks
Housing
City Center: 2/2
Farms: 1
Residential District (Wooden): 2/2
Total: 6/5
Taxation
Population: +3
Mercantile District: +2 (Population: 1)
Militia: -2
Income: +3
Expenditures
Gold: -2 (Courts), -5 (Docks)
Wood: -5 (Devastating Winter), -5 (Harsh Winter)
Stone: -4 (Docks)
Food
Fishing: 3 Food (Population: 1)
Farming: 3 Food (Population: 1)
Total: +6 Food
Wood
2 Logging Camps: 6 Wood (Population: 2) [Special Resource: Lebethron]
Total: +6 Wood
Stone
Metal
Income: 3 Gold
Treasury: 31 Gold
Food: 0(0 Growth) (0/7 Growth) [5/6 Stored]
Wood: 0 [4/5 Stored]
--Lebethron: 2
Stone: 6
Metal: 0
Harsh winters have increased the price of wood.
| Trade Good | Import Price | Export Value |
| Food | 2 | 1 |
| Wood | 5 | 4 |
| Stone | 3 | 2 |
| Metal | 3 | 2 |
| Lebethron | 4 | 3 |
| Hardwood | 6 | 5 |
Last edited:
[x] Sell 1 Lebethron (Market Price)
[x] Buy 2 Stone (Market Price-1)
[x] Buy 2 Food (Market Price)
With recent harsh winter and less than full storage it is prudent to not sell wood yet. Buy stone while it's cheap. EDIT: buy food. we'll in be in deficit, but with my building plan below, we'll back to positive income in two years. EDIT2: Well, perhaps rather 4 if each construction step took a year but still within comfortable margin for our wallet.
[x] Clear new land for farms, bypassing the housing issue (-2 Gold, +3 Food, +1 Housing)
While I do want start making ship, we may better to ensure we maintain positive food surplus for maintain growth rate first.
[x] Small Residential District (-5 Gold, -2 Wood, +2 Housing)
[x] Renovate City Center (-5 Gold, -2 Housing, -6 Stone)
--[x] Upgrade to Stone Walls (-4 Stone)
----[x] Convert to Administrative Center (+5 Taxes)
Another residential building because I want to renovate the city center and put those stone to use. Yes right now it has to wait two years for enough stone and wood. With this option we got both defense increase and income upgrade. Less defense than if we built a new inner wall (which I also want) but more efficient. With increase in tax we can buy food or metal for next trade agreement. Hmm now come to think of it, we can buy more stuff right now anyway since we have plenty enough of gold to take a two turn of deficit.
[x] Buy 2 Stone (Market Price-1)
[x] Buy 2 Food (Market Price)
With recent harsh winter and less than full storage it is prudent to not sell wood yet. Buy stone while it's cheap. EDIT: buy food. we'll in be in deficit, but with my building plan below, we'll back to positive income in two years. EDIT2: Well, perhaps rather 4 if each construction step took a year but still within comfortable margin for our wallet.
[x] Clear new land for farms, bypassing the housing issue (-2 Gold, +3 Food, +1 Housing)
While I do want start making ship, we may better to ensure we maintain positive food surplus for maintain growth rate first.
[x] Small Residential District (-5 Gold, -2 Wood, +2 Housing)
[x] Renovate City Center (-5 Gold, -2 Housing, -6 Stone)
--[x] Upgrade to Stone Walls (-4 Stone)
----[x] Convert to Administrative Center (+5 Taxes)
Another residential building because I want to renovate the city center and put those stone to use. Yes right now it has to wait two years for enough stone and wood. With this option we got both defense increase and income upgrade. Less defense than if we built a new inner wall (which I also want) but more efficient. With increase in tax we can buy food or metal for next trade agreement. Hmm now come to think of it, we can buy more stuff right now anyway since we have plenty enough of gold to take a two turn of deficit.
Last edited:
- Location
- Central Europe
Some actions I wanted to highlight since we currently appear to be more in need of wood than stone:
[ ] Small Residential District
--[ ] Convert to Stone Housing (-2 Gold, +2 Wood Store, -2 Stone, +1 Prestige)
[ ] Small Mercantile District
@Sayle aren't we missing a convert option here, since we already build a wooden one??
[ ] Small Civic District
--[ ] Convert to Stone (-2 Gold, +2 Wood Store, -2 Stone)
And doesn't this convert option miss the +1 Prestige, since building a new one with stone does earn so well?
[ ] Small Stone Civic District (-5 Gold, -2 Wood, +1 Prestige)
Edit: Now that I read more carefully I am inclined to think that Wood store means more storage capabilities not getting wood back. This could also be useful but not nearly as much as my original assumption.
[ ] Small Residential District
--[ ] Convert to Stone Housing (-2 Gold, +2 Wood Store, -2 Stone, +1 Prestige)
[ ] Small Mercantile District
@Sayle aren't we missing a convert option here, since we already build a wooden one??
[ ] Small Civic District
--[ ] Convert to Stone (-2 Gold, +2 Wood Store, -2 Stone)
And doesn't this convert option miss the +1 Prestige, since building a new one with stone does earn so well?
[ ] Small Stone Civic District (-5 Gold, -2 Wood, +1 Prestige)
Edit: Now that I read more carefully I am inclined to think that Wood store means more storage capabilities not getting wood back. This could also be useful but not nearly as much as my original assumption.
Last edited:
Edited some building queue into my vote. Reasons:
Another residential building because I want to renovate the city center and put those stone to use. Yes right now it has to wait two years for enough stone and wood. With this option we got both defense increase and income upgrade. Less defense than if we built a new inner wall (which I also want) but more efficient for now. With increase in tax we can buy food or metal for next trade agreement. Hmm now come to think of it, we can buy more stuff right now anyway since we have plenty enough of gold to take a two turn of deficit.
Another residential building because I want to renovate the city center and put those stone to use. Yes right now it has to wait two years for enough stone and wood. With this option we got both defense increase and income upgrade. Less defense than if we built a new inner wall (which I also want) but more efficient for now. With increase in tax we can buy food or metal for next trade agreement. Hmm now come to think of it, we can buy more stuff right now anyway since we have plenty enough of gold to take a two turn of deficit.
Last edited:
Okay edited in buy food into the trade agreement. The faster we got to the next growth, the faster we got to open the docks. Didn't buy metal yet, because I don't know yet what/how metal will be used for. My guess we'll need some infrastructure first, like barracks or something before we can take advantage of it yet. So metal is for later.
Right now, the plan is restocking wood + keeping supply of stone + more food + aim for more income + some increase in defense
Right now, the plan is restocking wood + keeping supply of stone + more food + aim for more income + some increase in defense
Last edited:
Pirx
is taken by a fey mood
- Pronouns
- He/Him
Trade and Build Actions
[X] Sell 1 Lebethron (Market Price)
[X] Buy 2 Stone (Market Price-1)
[X] Build a Stone Residential District (-5 Gold, -2 Stone, +2 Housing)
--[X] Corral wild sheep and start shepherding (-2 Gold, +2 Food, +1 Income)
[X] Small Stone Mercantile District (-5 Gold, -2 Stone, +2 Taxes, +1 Prestige)
[X] Small Stone Civic District (-5 Gold, -2 Stone, +1 Prestige)
----[X] Establish Houses of Healing (-2 Gold, +2 Prosperity)
Special Actions
-[X] Send messengers to Imladris and to the Havens, letting them know of our survival and how we fare now, and asking if they have any new tidings of the Enemy. Thank them for their aid against the Witch King.
-[X] Put together a small picked band of men from our Militia and the Chieftain's retinue. These will be the first of our rangers, and they will roam far and wide watching our borders.
[X] Sell 1 Lebethron (Market Price)
[X] Buy 2 Stone (Market Price-1)
[X] Build a Stone Residential District (-5 Gold, -2 Stone, +2 Housing)
--[X] Corral wild sheep and start shepherding (-2 Gold, +2 Food, +1 Income)
[X] Small Stone Mercantile District (-5 Gold, -2 Stone, +2 Taxes, +1 Prestige)
[X] Small Stone Civic District (-5 Gold, -2 Stone, +1 Prestige)
----[X] Establish Houses of Healing (-2 Gold, +2 Prosperity)
Special Actions
-[X] Send messengers to Imladris and to the Havens, letting them know of our survival and how we fare now, and asking if they have any new tidings of the Enemy. Thank them for their aid against the Witch King.
-[X] Put together a small picked band of men from our Militia and the Chieftain's retinue. These will be the first of our rangers, and they will roam far and wide watching our borders.
Last edited:
- Location
- Northern Ireland, UK
[X] Salbazier
- Location
- Central Europe
@Salbazier I agree with your plan almost completely.
These look like good deals:
[x] Sell 1 Lebethron (Market Price)
[x] Buy 2 Stone (Market Price-1)
[x] Buy 2 Food (Market Price)
I once again concur
[x] Clear new land for farms, bypassing the housing issue (-2 Gold, +3 Food, +1 Housing)
Here I have made some changes we don't have the 2 wood for the residential district yet, so renovating would put our people on the streets. So, I change the order around here abit. Also I fail to see the need for stone walls just yet. Right now most of our city doesn't even have wooden walls. So, I have added houses of healing in a stone civic district at the start of our building queue. This doesn't use wood, so we can beginn immediately. Houses of healing should also help raise our poor prosperity.
[x] Small Stone Civic District (-5 Gold, -2 Wood, +1 Prestige)
----[x] Establish Houses of Healing (-2 Gold, +2 Prosperity
[x] Small Residential District (-5 Gold, -2 Wood, +2 Housing)
[x] Renovate City Center (-5 Gold, -2 Housing, -6 Stone)
These look like good deals:
[x] Buy 2 Stone (Market Price-1)
[x] Buy 2 Food (Market Price)
I once again concur
Here I have made some changes we don't have the 2 wood for the residential district yet, so renovating would put our people on the streets. So, I change the order around here abit. Also I fail to see the need for stone walls just yet. Right now most of our city doesn't even have wooden walls. So, I have added houses of healing in a stone civic district at the start of our building queue. This doesn't use wood, so we can beginn immediately. Houses of healing should also help raise our poor prosperity.
----[x] Establish Houses of Healing (-2 Gold, +2 Prosperity
[x] Small Residential District (-5 Gold, -2 Wood, +2 Housing)
[x] Renovate City Center (-5 Gold, -2 Housing, -6 Stone)
Last edited:
Considering how much stone those require, and how you do an inefficient action in building the wooden district that's quite likely going to be replaced with a stone one later on costing another 2 gold and an action, wouldn't it be smarter to go for a different build order?
We currently have lots of gold and a good amount of stone, thus the various civic districts immediately leap out due to using those resources and giving us some nice stat modifiers. Notably our prosperity is rated low right now so we'd benefit, the prestige would be helpful, and a barracks should allow our militia to be trained to a better standard.
Huh.
Mention of the Witch-King makes me nervous.
No farms, because during a period of harsh winters, more farms increases wood consumption, and we need all our wood right now.
Sheep provide both food and trade goods,especially wool, and the shepherds can sleep indoors, I think, which keeps our wood consumption low at this time.
Beginning Treasury: 31 Gold
Beginning Income: +3 Gold
Beginning Stone: 6
PLAN
[] Sell 1 Lebethron (Market Price): +3 gold/turn
[] Buy 2 Stone (Market Price-1): -4 gold/turn
[] Build a Stone Residential District: -5 Gold, -2 Stone, +2 Housing
--[] Corral wild sheep and start shepherding: -2 Gold, +2 Food, +1 Income
[] Small Stone Mercantile District: -5 Gold, -2 Stone, +2 Taxes, +1 Prestige
[] Small Stone Civic District: -5 Gold, -2 Stone, +1 Prestige
----[] Establish Barracks: -2 Gold, +2 Rule of Law, +1 Prosperity
[] Build an Inner Wall: -5 Gold. -4 Wood
RESULTS
-24 gold, -6 stone, -4 Wood
+3 Income, +2 Prestige, +2 Food, +2 Housing, +2 Rule of Law, +1 Prosperity
End Treasury: 7 Gold
End Income: +6 Gold/turn
End Stone: 0
VOTE
[X] Sell 1 Lebethron (Market Price)
[X] Buy 2 Stone (Market Price-1)
[X] Build a Stone Residential District (-5 Gold, -2 Stone, +2 Housing)
--[X] Corral wild sheep and start shepherding (-2 Gold, +2 Food, +1 Income)
[X] Small Stone Mercantile District (-5 Gold, -2 Stone, +2 Taxes, +1 Prestige)
[X] Small Stone Civic District (-5 Gold, -2 Stone, +1 Prestige)
----[X] Establish Barracks (-2 Gold, +2 Rule of Law, +1 Prosperity)
[X] Build an Inner Wall (-5 Gold. -4 Wood)
Last edited:
- Location
- Austria
Eh. Fair enough, it's just easier on the phone.
[x] Sell 1 Lebethron (Market Price)
[x] Buy 2 Stone (Market Price-1)
[x] Buy 2 Food (Market Price)
[x] Clear new land for farms, bypassing the housing issue (-2 Gold, +3 Food, +1 Housing)
[x] Small Residential District (-5 Gold, -2 Wood, +2 Housing)
[x] Renovate City Center (-5 Gold, -2 Housing, -6 Stone)
--[x] Upgrade to Stone Walls (-4 Stone)
----[x] Convert to Administrative Center (+5 Taxes)
Gods no.
The City Center is slated for the Citadel upgrade, because defensive bonuses for the city.
Not for cash production, which we can get from other sources.
- Location
- Belgium
[X] Sell 1 Lebethron (Market Price)
[X] Buy 2 Stone (Market Price-1)
[X] Build a Stone Residential District (-5 Gold, -2 Stone, +2 Housing)
--[X] Corral wild sheep and start shepherding (-2 Gold, +2 Food, +1 Income)
[X] Small Stone Mercantile District (-5 Gold, -2 Stone, +2 Taxes, +1 Prestige)
[X] Small Stone Civic District (-5 Gold, -2 Stone, +1 Prestige)
----[X] Establish Barracks (-2 Gold, +2 Rule of Law, +1 Prosperity)
[X] Build an Inner Wall (-5 Gold. -4 Wood)
The big bite out of our treasury pains me, but this seems logical, sustainable and profitable in the long term.
Question: How does our population rating of six compare to other cities? How big is our pop. approximately?
[X] Buy 2 Stone (Market Price-1)
[X] Build a Stone Residential District (-5 Gold, -2 Stone, +2 Housing)
--[X] Corral wild sheep and start shepherding (-2 Gold, +2 Food, +1 Income)
[X] Small Stone Mercantile District (-5 Gold, -2 Stone, +2 Taxes, +1 Prestige)
[X] Small Stone Civic District (-5 Gold, -2 Stone, +1 Prestige)
----[X] Establish Barracks (-2 Gold, +2 Rule of Law, +1 Prosperity)
[X] Build an Inner Wall (-5 Gold. -4 Wood)
The big bite out of our treasury pains me, but this seems logical, sustainable and profitable in the long term.
Question: How does our population rating of six compare to other cities? How big is our pop. approximately?
After recalculating perhaps I should remove the buy food part. +5 food seems to excessive.
EDIT: oh you mean the residential. I don't see that renovation happening anytime soon so it doesn't matter IMO
As for walls, it's make me jittery that we keep having but a single wooden wall right now. I want more defense ASAP. But stone walls upgrade for city center is more efficient than just building outer wall since it allows access to upgrades. Without outer walls, the outer districts are vulnerable ... but if there's a well-fortified town center the populace will have a place for refuge and safely store emergency food. A thoroughly fortified city is better yes, but in time of scarcity we must go with efficiency.
EDIT: It's a good plan though. I'll reconsider.
Inefficient? I just do as the mechnics requires. Can't build the admin center without the prev upgrades.
EDIT: oh you mean the residential. I don't see that renovation happening anytime soon so it doesn't matter IMO
I intended the queu to wait for more woods and building residential district first before renovating. Hmm, @Sayle, can I do that with the queue? Alternatively I can just add only the residential district for now and just input the rest next turn. With 5 food its going be to 2 just two years before next growth and another turn anyway
Longer queu before admin center = longer deficit. If we are not going to pursue admin center fast, then we should not buy food. ... I'm thinking of removing that part anyway.
As for walls, it's make me jittery that we keep having but a single wooden wall right now. I want more defense ASAP. But stone walls upgrade for city center is more efficient than just building outer wall since it allows access to upgrades. Without outer walls, the outer districts are vulnerable ... but if there's a well-fortified town center the populace will have a place for refuge and safely store emergency food. A thoroughly fortified city is better yes, but in time of scarcity we must go with efficiency.
We can just renovate again later @Sayle? Can we?
Uh, where it does it says this?
EDIT: It's a good plan though. I'll reconsider.
Last edited:
Not that many extant cities in Middle Earth I'm afraid.
Given the metrics given at the beginning?
I'd say low side.
Rather difficult to change a Stone Administrative Center into a Stone Citadel.
And I suspect we may need those defensive boosts sooner than later; we have minimal defenses around our city.
Besides, it still costs 10 Stone.
That's 4 more stone than we have stored, and it literally does nothing else.
We'd spend two years twiddling our thumbs before we even got enough cash to do anything else, and the surplus of food that your farm engenders will pop more population at a time when we don't have extra housing.
I will also note this about farms:
That's what happened to us a turn ago, and we were feeding people from our grain reserves and fisheries.
Which is why diversification is good.
Enough cash? Do you mean waiting for enough stone?
If new pop pops we'll got new turn anyway and can build another residence as needed. Of course the disadvantage is yet longer queue which is why I think to remove buy food option and cancel the deficit.
XkaliburRage
Perpetual Procrastinator
[X] Sell 1 Lebethron (Market Price)
[X] Buy 2 Stone (Market Price-1)
[X] Build a Stone Residential District (-5 Gold, -2 Stone, +2 Housing)
--[X] Corral wild sheep and start shepherding (-2 Gold, +2 Food, +1 Income)
[X] Small Stone Mercantile District (-5 Gold, -2 Stone, +2 Taxes, +1 Prestige)
[X] Small Stone Civic District (-5 Gold, -2 Stone, +1 Prestige)
----[X] Establish Barracks (-2 Gold, +2 Rule of Law, +1 Prosperity)
[X] Build an Inner Wall (-5 Gold. -4 Wood)
[X] Buy 2 Stone (Market Price-1)
[X] Build a Stone Residential District (-5 Gold, -2 Stone, +2 Housing)
--[X] Corral wild sheep and start shepherding (-2 Gold, +2 Food, +1 Income)
[X] Small Stone Mercantile District (-5 Gold, -2 Stone, +2 Taxes, +1 Prestige)
[X] Small Stone Civic District (-5 Gold, -2 Stone, +1 Prestige)
----[X] Establish Barracks (-2 Gold, +2 Rule of Law, +1 Prosperity)
[X] Build an Inner Wall (-5 Gold. -4 Wood)
Chaos Blade
Procrastinating Writer
- Location
- Buenos Aires, Argentina
[] Sell 1 Lebethron (Market Price)
[] Buy 2 Stone (Market Price-1)
[] Build a Stone Residential District (-5 Gold, -2 Stone, +2 Housing)
--[] Corral wild sheep and start shepherding (-2 Gold, +2 Food, +1 Income)
[] Small Stone Mercantile District (-5 Gold, -2 Stone, +2 Taxes, +1 Prestige)
[] Small Stone Civic District (-5 Gold, -2 Stone, +1 Prestige)
----[]Establish Barracks (-2 Gold, +2 Rule of Law, +1 Prosperity)
[] Build an Inner Wall (-5 Gold. -4 Wood)
Think this is a reasonable vote, we add sheeps to our food stocks, which should be less vulnerable to winters, the additional walls should net us better defenses, add in barracks, that should do the same AND add some prosperity (which we need) and probably will open up the option to improve our militias into something more... permanent and proffesional
I'd suggest we go for houses of healing next turn, we need some health infrastructure, and they seem to be it (the added prosperity would be nice)
EDIT: changed vote
[] Buy 2 Stone (Market Price-1)
[] Build a Stone Residential District (-5 Gold, -2 Stone, +2 Housing)
--[] Corral wild sheep and start shepherding (-2 Gold, +2 Food, +1 Income)
[] Small Stone Mercantile District (-5 Gold, -2 Stone, +2 Taxes, +1 Prestige)
[] Small Stone Civic District (-5 Gold, -2 Stone, +1 Prestige)
----[]Establish Barracks (-2 Gold, +2 Rule of Law, +1 Prosperity)
[] Build an Inner Wall (-5 Gold. -4 Wood)
Think this is a reasonable vote, we add sheeps to our food stocks, which should be less vulnerable to winters, the additional walls should net us better defenses, add in barracks, that should do the same AND add some prosperity (which we need) and probably will open up the option to improve our militias into something more... permanent and proffesional
I'd suggest we go for houses of healing next turn, we need some health infrastructure, and they seem to be it (the added prosperity would be nice)
EDIT: changed vote
Last edited: