Challenge: Degrimdarkify 40k

[Sabertooth]

Lets say you are now head of GW (and assume you are actually competent by plot device). And you decide to make the 40k setting more "heroic" and less "lolevil".

Using the current lore and the tools it has, how would you do it? Bear in mind you can't erase stuff and organisations that already exist (can't retcon the Inquisition and its many atrocities for example).

 

[Avernus]

One option that occurs to me is for the Emperor to finally die and successfully ascend as a Warp God of Humanity finally strong enough to meaningfully push Chaos back instead of just fighting a holding action.

Have a new religious movement among the Tech Priests promoting technological progress and innovation instead of simply clinging to past glories.

Neither of these would make the setting bright and shiny, but making progress and perhaps eventual victory possible would reduce the grimdarkness a lot. If the Imperium is getting stronger instead of decaying it adds hope to the setting.

EDIT: Also, unlike most of the other factions it's possible to postulate an Imperium that over time becomes more benevolent and reasonable, so them becoming stronger is useful for a degrimmification effort. The Orks or Tyrannids for example aren't ever going to be anything better than what they already are.

 

[Hykal94]

You know I'm actually on the side of "hey 40k probably needs more xenos love" but I think a part where that can be done is to introduce successful rebellions. Like legitimate successful, mini-empires, that while weak are too strong to take properly take down without a lot of effort and a few Space Marine chapters. These empires should be friendly to Eldar Craftworlds and make allies with the Tau (if they're closeby). Some of these empires may even have loyal Space Marines themselves.

In fact, we could use more xenos than whatever we already have. The Tau's allies are good but there should be a hell lot more. Wonderful and alien, able to pose a legitimate threat to Orks and Nids (because let's face it those factions are never gonna do much in terms of character development). For a universe so big, it can feel a bit small at times.

 

[Nerx]

Everyone loves to fight like the ork so darkness is replaced with madness!

 

[Sabertooth]

You know I'm actually on the side of "hey 40k probably needs more xenos love" but I think a part where that can be done is to introduce successful rebellions. Like legitimate successful, mini-empires, that while weak are too strong to take properly take down without a lot of effort and a few Space Marine chapters. These empires should be friendly to Eldar Craftworlds and make allies with the Tau (if they're closeby). Some of these empires may even have loyal Space Marines themselves.

In fact, we could use more xenos than whatever we already have. The Tau's allies are good but there should be a hell lot more. Wonderful and alien, able to pose a legitimate threat to Orks and Nids (because let's face it those factions are never gonna do much in terms of character development). For a universe so big, it can feel a bit small at times.

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Currently there is the Severan Dominate, but its just another flavor of shit.

 

[Reveen]

Bring back the crazy 2000AD satire of the universe being a ridiculous crazy dystopia in full force.

It ain't grimdark if it's a big heavy metal parody.

 

[Hykal94]

God no. Early 40k was fun but it's stupid dumb and also mechannically obtuse.

That being said we did get (one) Squat back.

 

[Sabertooth]

Personally, I would focus on Imperium Secundus. Maybe with Guiliman or Vulkan leading it and make it a beacon of progress while still loyal to the Emperor's vision.

 

[thamuzz]

God no. Early 40k was fun but it's stupid dumb and also mechannically obtuse.

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I think that was the point. Replace grimdark with an uncomfortable side order of facist apologia (or a Poe thereof) with good stupid fun.

 

[Hykal94]

40k is already good stupid fun. There's an Ork called Orkimedes, Corvus Covax literally screamed NEVERMORE when he went into the Warp and we got a Sqaut back for crying out loud.

I literally don't understand how anyone can look at current 40k and go "this setting is too serious" when it's never that in the first place.

 

[Nerx]

Replace muzzle flash with flower petals and blood with jam, gotta change the optics.

 

[Janus]

An after life now exists in the Warp, where everyone goes to when they die. This place in the Warp is now a positive after life and is beyond your wildest dreams for how good it is.

Yes, even the eaten of the Emperor and those who have had their souls destroyed eventually find themselves in this place of the Warp.

Now even if the setting of Warhammer 40,000 is hopeless and everyone dies, there's at least something that gives the setting a little happiness.

 

[Dream Logic]

Honestly I think that's what the second great crusade is meant to do. It's a light of hope and the potential for progress.

But sticking to the prompt I'd do a timeskip. It's the 51st millennia and even though things aren't that much better on paper there's this general sense that this could be a turning point. That mankind might truly be on the cusp of it's second golden age.

The second great crusade is thoroughly into the other half of the galaxy and is starting to split into satellite states. Though it's problematic as there is a full on chaos state breaching into the world via returned Cadia. The emperor has ascended and even if he is not outright winning he has at least stalemated the chaos gods from making true progress in the matterium. With his death there has been a transformation. The eclesiarchs absorbed the inquisition and have split into two martial forces. The Sisters of battle, now closer to janissaries absorbing the role of space marines of old and the inquisition which serves as the long arm. Wielding exotic talents from across humanity openly and doing gunboat diplomacy and special forces.

The space marines have embraced their roles as angels and retreated into their citadel monasteries. They are mysterious and unscruitable sometimes saving those of the imperium and other times destroying convoys of refugees. To each chapter a new cult has formed and to each is their own dogma and mutations. Because Mars has largely abandoned them. With the death of the emperor the Cult Mechanicus had their alliance ended. They are both more progressive and more cult like then ever before. Once more producing wonders of technology but oft not knowing how they have rediscovered it. And in the deepest chambers it is said that the tech priests hear whispers of code from a slumbering god and that perhaps the most mechanized priests are little different then the ol' men of iron.

In the distance the Eldar prepare the final rituals of their death cult but the transition is violent as the exodites return in their attempt to save their race from this grand suicide.

The tau empire rises. Desperate in their attempts they have begun a grand project to create an ark fleet and flee the eternal hordes of the tyranids, orks and others they are raiding and absorbing the thousands petty kingdoms to feed this ever growing engine.

To live in this time is to live through great strife and experience terrible purpose. Never before has the chance of realization been greater and ne'er before has that chance been so close to slipping through their fingers. Yes, to live in this time may seed hope in abundance hope is also the first step on the path to despair.

===

Ok, that ending was a bit melodramatic and stupid but the general feel should be pretty clear. Every faction is dealing with the question of whether these changes are their salvation or destruction(to justify inter-faction conflict and keep the darkness), but the world really has improved in the 10k years and there's a real chance that this time they can get it right. Also, I wanted to make the marines a bit closer to the biblical 'great and terrible' and in the general movement towards a somewhat more secular imperium I wanted to make the SOB's just as cult like but in a very different manner.

 

[Alane1]

Hmm maybe introduce separate a heroic human faction perhaps one led Space King Arthur complete with knights defying both the darkness of the empire and the evils of Chaos and winning in their corner of the galaxy and then maybe throw in a space roman republic and a space Venice into the mix(may or may not hijack a crusade to sack the imperium's capital for fun, profit and revenge).

 

[Sabertooth]

Hmm maybe introduce separate a heroic human faction perhaps one led Space King Arthur complete with knights defying both the darkness of the empire and the evils of Chaos and winning in their corner of the galaxy and then maybe throw in a space roman republic and a space Venice into the mix(may or may not hijack a crusade to sack the imperium's capital for fun, profit and revenge).

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Well, there are TWO missing Primarchs. But a new faction would have to be powerfull enought to withstand the Imperium murderboner and the corruption of chaos (and everything else).

 

[greendoor]

I'd probably take a lot inspiration from Warhammer Fantasy:



-There are several (Much smaller) Human states which are not as bad as the Imperium, who survive by dint of treaty, being too inconveniently placed, or other strategic concerns. Do not make them all secular democracies who are all totally fine with aliens and such-some of them will be monarchies, military dictatorships, theocracies, etc and some will be xenophobic too. They will be flawed, but still better than the Imperium-making any of them pure good guy faction would be boring.

I don't particularly care much about the Wargame (In fact I think it's kinda bad), but definitely make one of these factions a Tabletop faction (Also make the Wargame not suck)

-For that matter, make other human and Xenos Gods whom are not Chaos. Make the Imperium's strict monotheism actually matter by letting there be other options. Take inspiration from Warhammer Fantasy-these gods have to also actively intervene and actually matter-maybe make it clear that the Emperor (and by extension, the Omnisiah) is only the most powerful of the Gods of Man.

Actually, i'd also make at least one of those minor states still worship the Emperor (Or possibly Omnisiah), and show that it's possible to do so and not be fascist assholes.

-More Xenos, some of whom are not huge pricks, some of whom might be actually allied with those minor human factions.

-The Imperium...basically keep it as it currently is, except make it more clear that it is a failure state for what an Interstellar Human Empire should be. Maybe over time let it have "Character development" and start to soften it's stance on Xenos and "Pagans" (Those other god's worshippers) as part of larger storylines. Or maybe the opposite.

I'd keep the heroic characters within the Imperium that are prevelent within the Novels, but make it clear they're either powerless to really change things (Either literally, or as a matter of mindset), make them eventually rebel, become attempted reformers, or have them eventually become villain protagonists. Also have at least one novel series about Rebels against the Imperium that doesn't have them be Chaos cultists or evil. Whether they succeed, all die horribly, or something else is open though.

All of the above also applies to the Mechanicus, and all other Imperial Institutions.


-Chaos.....keep it as is in general concept, but make it possible to be redeemed and purified. Not to a Star Warsy extent, but definitely make sure it's a possibility.

Also, add various minor Chaos Gods. None benevolent, but perhaps not as rabidly destructive as the "Big Four". Or sometimes more, such as Malal.

 

[Oksbad]

Take out a page from the Ciaphas Cain books. Dark but not grimderp.

 

[Alex]

The big issue with lightening up the 40k verse is that the imperium is in essence a horrible fascist nightmare. You kinda have to fundamentally change some core aspects of the Imperium or else you are just kinda treating the symptoms not the wound. Otherwise you create a universe that is still propped up on dogmatic fascism but isn't that bad... somehow.

Edit: Yes I am using 40k and the Imperium as kinda interchangeable here but I think that is ratehr fair when the universe treats it like that. With easily more then 90% of stories taking place from a imperial POV. And works treating the other factions often as interchangeable targets for imperials to shoot at.

 

[Destynova1]

Make it Noblebright from 1d4chan. Or use Love and Krieg as dark, but also fuckawesome.

 

[Space Penguin]

40k can be made not grimdark but it wouldn't be 40k anymore. Things like noblebright 40k exist cause 40k as it is exists.

The big issue with lightening up the 40k verse is that the imperium is in essence a horrible fascist nightmare. You kinda have to fundamentally change some core aspects of the Imperium or else you are just kinda treating the symptoms not the wound. Otherwise you create a universe that is still propped up on dogmatic fascism but isn't that bad... somehow.

Edit: Yes I am using 40k and the Imperium as kinda interchangeable here but I think that is ratehr fair when the universe treats it like that. With easily more then 90% of stories taking place from a imperial POV. And works treating the other factions often as interchangeable targets for imperials to shoot at.

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40k sucks for everyone not an Ork. Human worlds beyond the Imperium majority of the time suck or in some ways worse then the Imperium.

An after life now exists in the Warp, where everyone goes to when they die. This place in the Warp is now a positive after life and is beyond your wildest dreams for how good it is.

Yes, even the eaten of the Emperor and those who have had their souls destroyed eventually find themselves in this place of the Warp.

Now even if the setting of Warhammer 40,000 is hopeless and everyone dies, there's at least something that gives the setting a little happiness.

Click to shrink...

40k does have an afterlife, its called the warp and the fate of even the most liberal xeno loving person and the piece of trash serial killer is the same, daemon food.

Unless one takes the Emperor saving people's souls into account and that would likely only happen if you are a loyal imperial so yeah.

 

[Susano]

Degrimify is exactly the wrong direction. In a way it is the direction that has been taken for a long time already, in fact: Making the Imperium less of an over-the-top fascist parody, and instead more heroic. This, however, is kinda not a good thing, because if you still have the Imperium as is, but then treat it or its armies or oppression apparatus in a heroic fashion... well then you just have blatant fascism apologia. Instead, they need to return the focus to the over the top dysfunctionality and oppressiviness of the Imperium. Make everything way exaggerated and ridiculous, as it used to be.

 

[DestinyPlayer]

You know, it's kinda hilarious how "And the great empire of humankind had crumbled into myriads of warring states" would be an improvement over the current situation in 40k

 

[Suzu]

Everything stays the same, but everyone also wears silly birthday hats. Cruel, horrifying race of heartless monsters that are obsessed with consumption, check. Orks, check. Tyranids, check. Necrons, Tau and Eldars, all check.

That's it. Now, whatever attempts at making the universe darker and grimmer will be thwarted by the fact that all those creatures are wearing silly birthday hats. Done.

 

[Alane1]

Well, there are TWO missing Primarchs. But a new faction would have to be powerfull enought to withstand the Imperium murderboner and the corruption of chaos (and everything else).

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Or prehaps like the Tau if it was the only thing they had to focus on they perhaps could crush those non-imperium human faction or factions but they can't because of all the other issues they face.

 

[Space Penguin]

Well, there are TWO missing Primarchs. But a new faction would have to be powerfull enought to withstand the Imperium murderboner and the corruption of chaos (and everything else).

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Its implied they either died at the Imperiums hands for some reason or died due to the Rangdan wars. Either way, unless GW pulls them from somewhere they aren't around.

Degrimify is exactly the wrong direction. In a way it is the direction that has been taken for a long time already, in fact: Making the Imperium less of an over-the-top fascist parody, and instead more heroic. This, however, is kinda not a good thing, because if you still have the Imperium as is, but then treat it or its armies or oppression apparatus in a heroic fashion... well then you just have blatant fascism apologia. Instead, they need to return the focus to the over the top dysfunctionality and oppressiviness of the Imperium. Make everything way exaggerated and ridiculous, as it used to be.

Click to shrink...

40k has always been that this how much things must suck for facism to be somewhat defensible though in parody form. And the over-the-top things they did in the past was far too much that you couldn't take it seriously at all so it doesn't accomplish the objective you want with this post. I would prefer a somewhat middle option.

And again, humans can suck without the Imperium, we have seen this in universe.

You know, it's kinda hilarious how "And the great empire of humankind had crumbled into myriads of warring states" would be an improvement over the current situation in 40k

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the warring states all die then cause they would be busy warring against each other to be able to stand against chaos or the nids or Necrons. And why presume warring states would be less oppressive?

Just want to point out that Chaos or at least Nurgle doesn't like it when humans do advance science things he doesn't like as when that happens, he well destroys you entirely. Just ask the world that went screw the admech and went all sciency and cured all diseases only for Nurgle to destroy them for the hubris.