Sure. But there are plenty of factions that wouldn't care if they squeaked. Nids as an example
That would be cuddly tbh, give them googly plastic eyes and smoothen the sharp edgesSure. But there are plenty of factions that wouldn't care if they squeaked. Nids as an example
Hence why I said sure. But cute things can still kill you dead and in horrible ways. Would be amusing though.That would be cuddly tbh, give them googly plastic eyes and smoothen the sharp edges
So basically Carbotify the entirety of W40k?That would be cuddly tbh, give them googly plastic eyes and smoothen the sharp edges
That was the impression I got from his post yes. Cute and amusing.
That'd be the point. It's just outright satire and exaggeration, instead of playing fascism apologia straight. No glorification of hard men making hard decisions or manly warriors doing manly warrior things or an oppressive security apparatus.And the over-the-top things they did in the past was far too much that you couldn't take it seriously at all
Then its not a universe that works at all. Like they have toned things down so that society actually works rather then everything is terrible forever. I think thats a worthwhile thing.That'd be the point. It's just outright satire and exaggeration, instead of playing fascism apologia straight. No glorification of hard men making hard decisions or manly warriors doing manly warrior things or an oppressive security apparatus.
That'd be the point. It's just outright satire and exaggeration, instead of playing fascism apologia straight. No glorification of hard men making hard decisions or manly warriors doing manly warrior things or an oppressive security apparatus.
*coughs*Tau*coughs*Gue'vesa*coughs*
But "everything being terrible forever" was literally the point of the 40k setting. The setting's blurb is where the term "grimdark" comes from:Then its not a universe that works at all. Like they have toned things down so that society actually works rather then everything is terrible forever. I think thats a worthwhile thing.
It is the 41st Millennium. For more than a hundred centuries the Emperor of Mankind has sat immobile on the Golden Throne of Earth. He is the master of mankind by the will of the gods and master of a million worlds by the might of His inexhaustible armies. He is a rotting carcass writhing invisibly with power from the Dark Age of Technology. He is the Carrion Lord of the vast Imperium of Man for whom a thousand souls are sacrificed every day so that He may never truly die.
[...]
To be a man in such times is to be one amongst untold billions. It is to live in the cruelest and most bloody regime imaginable. These are the tales of those times. Forget the power of technology and science, for so much has been forgotten, never to be relearned. Forget the promise of progress and understanding, for in the grim dark future there is only war. There is no peace amongst the stars, only an eternity of carnage and slaughter, and the laughter of thirsting gods."
...what? That's a strawman you created out of nothing. I never said anything remotely like that.Like lets use this, cults and conspiracies in fiction are said to be based on things accused on jews which are bs but in fiction are true though not against jews. So should they be removed or shown to not be true in fiction?
Or, you know, the reason Chaos has such an easy time infesting everything is because everybody lives shitty lives in large parts because of that oppressive state apparatus. Once again, that's the point: Since it is an ultra-dystopia where everything sucks, the Imperium only makes matters even worse. It is, not like some fanboys claim, a cruel necessity - rather, it is just more pointless suffering because 40k was created around the concept of everything being an over the top dystopia.Though even if what you wanted happened, daemons still exists which is why the oppressive security exists so it does not actually make a point at all.
We have lore of Tau doing oppressive things too actually.
Thats not what I meant though. I was talking about everyday activities and life.But "everything being terrible forever" was literally the point of the 40k setting. The setting's blurb is where the term "grimdark" comes from:
That is how 40k is supposed to be! And yes, such a universe is far too dysfunctional to tell any tales of heroics in it - but once again, that is the point. The point is that all factions are evil and brutal, the Imperium just as much as the Orcs or Chaos or the Eldar variants. There is no good guys here, and the Imperium should never be portrayed as such ever. It is literally just one sort of evil going against another sort of evil, and the universe will not be a better place for either side winning, because just as the blurb says there is no hope, no progress, only an eternity of slaughter. Nothing matters in the end. That was the conception of 40k, and that is how it should be.
I was using it as an example. But to be frank, that is what you are saying....what? That's a strawman you created out of nothing. I never said anything remotely like that.
Not true. We have seen chaos infesting worlds that have nothing to do with the Imperium to chaos infecting people cause they doubted the Emperor even existed to Chaos infecting people through knowledge and art to geometries to apparently even inherited taint.Or, you know, the reason Chaos has such an easy time infesting everything is because everybody lives shitty lives in large parts because of that oppressive state apparatus. Once again, that's the point: Since it is an ultra-dystopia where everything sucks, the Imperium only makes matters even worse. It is, not like some fanboys claim, a cruel necessity - rather, it is just more pointless suffering because 40k was created around the concept of everything being an over the top dystopia.
On a similar note I am sure the Tyranids are having a nice time munching through the galaxy after all that time in the void.Play all orks. An eldar even stated that the orks have 'won' because they are doing what they want to do.
Orr glorify the right ones, like the Astral Knights who died taking a war world, the Salamanders who care for normal humans or the Space Wolves that went "LOLnope!" when the fucknuggets of the Inquisition wanted to kill the civilians and Steel Legion troops from Armageddon.
Speaking of that, that directive is the MOST retarded shit I have ever seen in 40k. "Let´s massacre experienced and loyal troops who just made the mistake of witness demons and still defeated them! While we are it it, lets kill the civilians too."
They are given plenty of rope to hang themselves. Exterminous is ALWAYS subject to review and bomb someplace that is a good source of materials will get you up close and personal with an auto-flayer.You know, that exact sort of thing is why I got out of 40K. Why, exactly, is it that the Inquisition always turn out to be justified in their actions? Is it too much to ask that the secret police with near-unlimited power and remit to stick their noses into anything they feel the need to occasionally gets things wrong, makes a bad call based on their prejudices, or, god forbid, abuse their immense power and privileges? But no, it's always "Trust in the Inquisition, they'll protect the Imperium, they may not always be right, but they're never wrong."
Fuck that fascistic shit. The Imperium of Man are the bad guys. They may be fighting worse guys, but they are still incredibly evil.
You know, that exact sort of thing is why I got out of 40K. Why, exactly, is it that the Inquisition always turn out to be justified in their actions? Is it too much to ask that the secret police with near-unlimited power and remit to stick their noses into anything they feel the need to occasionally gets things wrong, makes a bad call based on their prejudices, or, god forbid, abuse their immense power and privileges? But no, it's always "Trust in the Inquisition, they'll protect the Imperium, they may not always be right, but they're never wrong."
Excuse me? Like um....have you read any lore thats not focused on the Inquisition or even lore focused on the Inquisition? We see the bold plenty of times. Infact, so many times its not even funny and quite tiring. The justified part is that the threats they go on about are real. Thats about it.You know, that exact sort of thing is why I got out of 40K. Why, exactly, is it that the Inquisition always turn out to be justified in their actions? Is it too much to ask that the secret police with near-unlimited power and remit to stick their noses into anything they feel the need to occasionally gets things wrong, makes a bad call based on their prejudices, or, god forbid, abuse their immense power and privileges? But no, it's always "Trust in the Inquisition, they'll protect the Imperium, they may not always be right, but they're never wrong."
Nobody in 40k is a good guy. Its all about survival and order vs chaos.Fuck that fascistic shit. The Imperium of Man are the bad guys. They may be fighting worse guys, but they are still incredibly evil.
The quote:Play all orks. An eldar even stated that the orks have 'won' because they are doing what they want to do.
"The Orks are the pinnacle of creation. For them, the great struggle is won. They have evolved a society which knows no stress or angst. Who are we to judge them? We Eldar who have failed, or the Humans, on the road to ruin in their turn? And why? Because we sought answers to questions that an Ork wouldn't even bother to ask! We see a culture that is strong and despise it as crude."
From Culture vs. Kultur: Thoughts on Orkish Society by Uthan the Perverse, a controversial Eldar philosopher
Isn't the entire Eisenhorn novels more or less "absolute power absolutely corrupts, if you're an Inquisitor it's only a matter of time before you become the thing you fight against"?
They are given plenty of rope to hang themselves. Exterminous is ALWAYS subject to review and bomb someplace that is a good source of materials will get you up close and personal with an auto-flayer.
Excuse me? Like um....have you read any lore thats not focused on the Inquisition or even lore focused on the Inquisition? We see the bold plenty of times. Infact, so many times its not even funny and quite tiring. The justified part is that the threats they go on about are real. Thats about it.
If you actually read the lore, you would know this. So I seriously doubt this post of yours.
Nobody in 40k is a good guy. Its all about survival and order vs chaos.
Ok. So your entire post can be dismissed then cause you don't actually read the lore and don't know what you're talking about.Huh. I haven't actually read those.
Well, I always was more a Chaos fan than anything. I suppose a lot of my issues come with interacting with particularly idiotic fans, and my impression of Imperial lore was colored by them.
The Imperium is not meant to be properly heroic. The people in it can be heroic or dark heroic or do heroic things but the Imperium itself is not like most civilizations aren't.Regardless, if you want the Imperium to be a properly heroic faction, you need to seriously change how they operate in order to prevent it from turning into a love-letter to the glories of fascism.
It comes from the fact that 40k is such a hellhole that fascism and things that happen in it make some sense and this offends people. Simple as that. I think they are taking this shit way too seriously but whatever.I think that's where a lot of the "glorify fascism" idea comes from. People equate the Guard with the Imperium and while the Guard can be an instrument of tyranny, it can also be an instrument of saving lives. I think the US military is a horrendous institution who has done far more harm than good to the international community but I'm not gonna call Americans fascist just because of that.
It comes from the fact that 40k is such a hellhole that fascism and things that happen in it make some sense and this offends people. Simple as that. I think they are taking this shit way too seriously but whatever.
Which is perfectly fine.I personally am of the idea that fascism does not justify the means.
Sure. Though the Imperium ain't a dictatorship. Its a feudal oligarchy. The Emp hasn't done anything for 10,000 years.That's what I don't like with some aspects of the 40k community, that tyranny and dictatorship is "the only way".
Sure and they exist. But trying to implement it for the entire Imperium I would say is impossible. Funnily enough, the 40k rpg books has a colony world trying for a democracy fully in line with Imperial law only it never got of the ground cause orks invaded and to survive, they exalted the warrior class who well did feudalism.
I agree. Though the current psyker attitude stems from the Age of strife, worlds that treated psykers horribly survived while those that didn't became daemon food. It just grew from there.
This I'm not so sure about. the weaken chaos part I mean. doubtworm exists after all. Khorne from the rpg's tries and make simple disagreements explode into all out wars of genocide.you can give people basic human rights and I think that can actually be a good thing and would actually weaken Chaos as a whole.
Thats cause the leadership cares.Ultramar may be a feudalistic series of planets but people they for the most part are treated fairly and live good lives. Also, there's like 500 worlds of that. Ultramar taken in a vacuum is technically more noblebright than most sci-fi settings.
I agree with you for the most part.But I'm pretty sure that's a minority viewpoint. Most 40k fans I know are not of that mind, but hey your millage may vary.
Sure. Though the Imperium ain't a dictatorship. Its a feudal oligarchy. The Emp hasn't done anything for 10,000 years.
Sure and they exist. But trying to implement it for the entire Imperium I would say is impossible. Funnily enough, the 40k rpg books has a colony world trying for a democracy fully in line with Imperial law only it never got of the ground cause orks invaded and to survive, they exalted the warrior class who well did feudalism.