Can we talk about the intentional blindness in Anime fans to certain themes in select series?

If you're talking about anime, then they're Japanese, not white. If a white person shows up, then they'll likely have blond hair and blue/green eyes and a crazy name like Sallyopera Flowerbrusselpantz or something ridiculous like that. I agree with you about not having dark-skinned characters and the gross implications of a "race-less" default skin tone being lighter skinned, but the suggestion that anime characters are white and not Japanese when most of them have very Japanese names is just flat out wrong.

If that is, y'know, what you meant. Because your comment cut off there and the title/context of this thread implies to me that this is supposed to be about anime. So.

Meh unless they're not, Attack on Titian being one example, or maybe FMA.

Side note the live action versions of these are moderately hilarious with Misaka being the the only Asian left in the world in a sea of pseudo German Asian people.

but I guess that's just " (white)X" washing from the other side.

Edit flag tattoo beats flag bandanna, because tattoo.
 
Last edited:
I am not sure it could get more American than the main cast of Gunsmith Cats who run a gunshop and drive around in a mustang in Chicago.
 
Meh unless they're not, Attack on Titian being one example, or maybe FMA.

Side note the live action versions of these are moderately hilarious with Misaka being the the only Asian left in the world in a sea of pseudo German Asian people.

but I guess that's just " (white)X" washing from the other side.
Those characters are still quite clearly signaled to not be Japanese via commonly having blonde hair and not having Japanese names. I'm talking about the average anime protagonist who is named something like Daisuke Yamada and has dark hair and lives in Shinjuku but still somehow gets mistaken for white even though he's clearly meant to be a Japanese teenager living in Japan. Because that was the assumption I was correcting, as Konrad's comment implied to me that that was what she was saying.

like AOT has a lot of German-based names. FMA has a lot of English names. It's not the same as someone looking at Daisuke over here and saying because he has lighter skin that he's clearly white.
 
I
It is an interesting question, Flag Bandanna vs Flag Tattoo, Sunglasses vs Flattop, Biker Jacket vs Military Fatigues. In many ways, they are two sides of the same American Male Stereotype coin, Bandit Keith's Toxic Masculinity to the more Traditional Family Man of Guile. Which better represents America? The bad, or the good?

Edit: What the fuck am I talking about.
As a American ,bandit Keith is peek american
 
Those characters are still quite clearly signaled to not be Japanese via commonly having blonde hair and not having Japanese names. I'm talking about the average anime protagonist who is named something like Daisuke Yamada and has dark hair and lives in Shinjuku but still somehow gets mistaken for white even though he's clearly meant to be a Japanese teenager living in Japan.
Besides the already noted pale skin, another factor is the anime convention of often giving characters large eyes to make them cuter or more expressive. "Anime eyes" are a thing, after all. That makes them look non-Asian, at least in the perception of Westerners. And since your "average anime protagonist" is supposed to be young and cute, they get the cute eyes.
 
I'm actually not sure why. I think it may just be because people want to not feel lectured to. Or perhaps the money demographic I.w. straight white men, want to return to a world where there is only them and people have to cater completely to them.

I remember thinking Terraformars might have had a bit of a cool topic. However after reading 20 chapters I kind of stopped. It's the depiction for the cockroaches being too close to black people that got me. And the nationalism of the author which made me say ... maybe not.

Don't get me wrong some of the most interesting works are about nationalism. But I felt that if your talking about nationalism and not criticaly criticising it that may mean something needs to be done.

I also think one of the other issues is globalization. It used to be that you could make a piece of media, people would watch it in your home country and it would maybe be exported overseas if it was really, really popular or you were American.

But either globalization the windows to other societies is becoming more apparent. In regards to Terraformars I think we need to remember that Japan itself is still a very conservative country with some alien values that don't quite fit into the spectrum of conservative and progressive to the average western orientated reader or viewer. So you need to remember that when watching it.
 
I don't think racism should be excused because it's Japanese.

Western fans are deliberately blinded to obvious far right and xenophobic stuff like Ranking of the King
 
I don't think racism should be excused because it's Japanese.

Western fans are deliberately blinded to obvious far right and xenophobic stuff like Ranking of the King
Okay, I must have missed it here. That's the series with the deaf prince who's best friend is an outsider from a despised minority, where the most visible antagonist is blonde blue eyed and conventional. Did I miss something?
 
Okay, I must have missed it here. That's the series with the deaf prince who's best friend is an outsider from a despised minority, where the most visible antagonist is blonde blue eyed and conventional. Did I miss something?
Their is a entire kingdom of Korean coded people who are all portrayed as selfish and has the entire kingdom put to death.

Another issue is people not understanding Japanese political references. That are clearly obvious to a Japanese viewer. Like how in Persona 5 the BBEG is based on Shinazo Abe
 
Their is a entire kingdom of Korean coded people who are all portrayed as selfish and has the entire kingdom put to death.

Another issue is people not understanding Japanese political references. That are clearly obvious to a Japanese viewer. Like how in Persona 5 the BBEG is based on Shinazo Abe
Yeah, I would never have noticed that there was Korean coding in what seems to me to be a western fantasy setting
 
I don't think racism should be excused because it's Japanese.

Western fans are deliberately blinded to obvious far right and xenophobic stuff like Ranking of the King
No one is saying racism should be excused because it's Japanese. Personally, I think that Japan is a very racist society. Just that anime is an import from a very different culture - most importantly for this discussion, a culture that has never had to culturally reckon with its own racism like the West has. Or had to culturally reckon with Nazism, or slavery, which is why the latter two pop up in favorable lights way more often in Japanese works.

Like, I think a lot of people shrug and ignore the racism in anime because, well, what's to be done about it? It's an import from another culture, made by companies who don't need to care about Western opinions on their show. It's not like American shows where sufficient outrage and boycotting can get a show yanked off the air.

I also take issue with your wording of "deliberately blinded". Missing what to the Japanese are obvious political references and racial coding is not some deliberate action by your average American anime fan, it's just ignorance. And I don't think it's reasonable for anime watchers to be expected to be knowledgeable about the long, sordid history of Korean-Japanese relations or Japanese national politics just to watch a fantasy anime.
 
Then you get to High School of the Dead which is obviously right wing propganda that no one noticed.
In Japan it's obvious right wing propaganda. In an American context it felt, at the time, on the right side of normal; if it was a novel it would be published by Baen and few people would've batted an eye. These days those aspects are more problematic due to the country's ongoing political shift, of course.

Seriously, a lot of this can be explained by people just not knowing much about Japan, its cultural issues, and its politics. Goodness knows when I read Highschool of the Dead as a teenager I missed the "Japanese right-wing propaganda" aspect of it.

Also, "no one noticed"? The "What Do You Mean It's Not Political?" entry on TvTropes for the series dates back to November 2011, the year the dubbed anime was released into the West. People noticed.
 
Not enough.

And by that I mean one of the characters parents is a member of what is the Japanese equivalent to Neo-confederates and the main criticism of them is that they are too Honorable.

In the 2010s if a tv show where a characters parents were neo Nazi and the main issue with them was that they were too honorable. Their would be some raised eyebrows.

Another issue is people think that any progressivism in anime or Japanese media is because of the "SJW" localizers see the reaction to Zombie Land Saga and Guilty Gear when characters came out of trans.

People thought it was the English localization team who added it when it was in the Japanese.
 
Not enough.

And by that I mean one of the characters parents is a member of what is the Japanese equivalent to Neo-confederates and the main criticism of them is that they are too Honorable.

In the 2010s if a tv show where a characters parents were neo Nazi and the main issue with them was that they were too honorable. Their would be some raised eyebrows.
Again: most anime fans don't know much about Japan.

Yes, there would be raised eyebrows in your example, because guess what, for as much as our educational system is maligned here in the United States it does, at least, get across the point that "Nazis are bad". Yes, Japan has serious issues when something like that passed there without much comment.

But I must emphasize again: most Western anime fans do not know this, and I still think it's unreasonable to expect them to know Japanese politics in that much detail just to watch an anime for the guns and big titties.

Another issue is people think that any progressivism in anime or Japanese media is because of the "wonderful person" localizers see the reaction to Zombie Land Saga and Guilty Gear when characters came out of trans.

People thought it was the English localization team who added it when it was in the Japanese.
While this is a more valid point - do people seriously not remember the lesbian censoring that went on when Sailor Moon was localized? - it's also... kinda not a big issue? Like, I remember The Discourse around Zombie Land Saga, that claim that the localizers had made Lily trans was debunked fast and then swept aside. Guilty Gear has gone through a similar progression, aside from a few very loud voices.

~o~
Look, overall, I think you're being decidedly unreasonable about what is IMO mostly genuine and understandable ignorance about Japanese politics and culture. Especially the part where you've been implying that Western anime fans are deliberately shutting their eyes to this stuff, which, just no.
 
Especially the part where you've been implying that Western anime fans are deliberately shutting their eyes to this stuff, which, just no.
Speaking as a former 'western anime fan', bullshit.

There is totally a lot of willful ignorance, because people are not good at compartmentalization, and they don't want to think about "the thing they like being bad". So they filter it out, deny it, hide from it. Cognitive dissonance is unpleasant to experience, which is why people tend to repress and rationalize rather than reflect.

I personally, have no problem with thinking that a work is highly problematic and also enjoying it enough to consume it multiple times (although generally this is books, as they are very few shows, anime or otherwise, I enjoy rewatching), but I have to say based on experience that this is not a contradiction a lot, quite likely the majority, of people are willing to suffer.

Perhaps @Konradleijon is using language that too generalizes this phenomenon, since obviously there are many reflective anime fans who do not shy away from critical examination of what they love, but the fact remains that the 'willful ignorance' they describe is all too common among anime fans. And people in general, really.
 
Speaking as a former 'western anime fan', bullshit.

There is totally a lot of willful ignorance, because people are not good at compartmentalization, and they don't want to think about "the thing they like being bad". So they filter it out, deny it, hide from it. Cognitive dissonance is unpleasant to experience, which is why people tend to repress and rationalize rather than reflect.

I personally, have no problem with thinking that a work is highly problematic and also enjoying it enough to consume it multiple times (although generally this is books, as they are very few shows, anime or otherwise, I enjoy rewatching), but I have to say based on experience that this is not a contradiction a lot, quite likely the majority, of people are willing to suffer.

Perhaps @Konradleijon is using language that too generalizes this phenomenon, since obviously there are many reflective anime fans who do not shy away from critical examination of what they love, but the fact remains that the 'willful ignorance' they describe is all too common among anime fans. And people in general, really.
Okay, fair point, I was probably being too general myself by the end there. I will agree that there's a sizeable subset that know and are being willfully ignorant. And yeah, my problem with Konradleijon's premise is being too general in their language and a bit too condemnary for how general that language is.
 
Perhaps @Konradleijon is using language that too generalizes this phenomenon, since obviously there are many reflective anime fans who do not shy away from critical examination of what they love, but the fact remains that the 'willful ignorance' they describe is all too common among anime fans. And people in general, really.
Yes most anime fans are cool. But many are blind to basic analysis and a subset of those are alt right members who love Japanese media because it isn't infested with the woke SJWs
 
Generally I find saying, "hey, this can be seen in this way and that kinda fucked up,' to be more useful than saying, 'this is that and you're fucked up if you can't see that.'
 
I mean, it's not anime but I completely missed the Christian subtext in the Narnia novels for literally decades; it's perfectly possible for people to honestly miss extremely obvious things. And of course people can see the "problematic" part and ignore it for the sake of enjoying the work. The people I have a problem with are the ones who start defending and justifying things like racism or slavery in such works.
 
Last edited:
It can be easy to just miss things because you don't think that way, and the idea that someone would think that way feels weird, or you are not specifically interrogating a piece of media from a specific angle.

If you don't think that someones religion/race/gender/nationality/political party/other should matter, then you might not pay attention to what a story could (intentionally or otherwise) say about those things through which characters/roles have which labels unless attention is specifically drawn to them.

Most people consume media as is, they don't go into a deep dive of what possible messages they might contain, and honestly that is perfectly reasonable lot of the time, over analyzing everything can make it difficult to enjoy lot of stories that, quite honestly, have nothing that offensive about them.
 
I mean, it's not anime but I completely missed the Christian subtext in the Narnia novels for literally decades; it's perfectly possible for people to honestly miss extremely obvious things. And of course people can see the "problematic" part and ignore it for the sake of enjoying the work. The people I have a problem with are the ones who start defending and justifying things like racism or slavery in such works.
Narnia is well written. It's open about it's Christian image but doesn't beat you over the head with it. Also, if you're raised in a Christian household, it may go over your head because it fits so well with what you've already been taught that you don't question it.
 
Narnia is well written. It's open about it's Christian image but doesn't beat you over the head with it. Also, if you're raised in a Christian household, it may go over your head because it fits so well with what you've already been taught that you don't question it.

I wasn't 'raised in a Christian household,' so I can't speak to that, but Narnia weirded me out when I first read it because I had jumped into fantasy via Lloyd Alexander and Laurence Yep, both of whom echoed Tolkien (who I had not yet read, then) in going for a very 'other world' voice/tone for their high fantasy stories in other worlds.

Meanwhile Lewis went for a very living-room-conversation style that felt like storytelling to an audience in 'this world' and I frankly did not like it. (Overall I enjoyed the books, but they always had that tendency to be a bit jarring)


In that same way, I often find some things in anime, not jarring in the same way, but certainly disruptive to my experience/enjoyment because I quickly identify them as being based on Japanese social conventions, that I don't have the full context for. And that can be fun when they are integrated into the plot (cf Ranma 1/2), but when they are randomly thrown in for the sake of having an "X" (e.g. Beach) episode, it really annoys me.
 
I wasn't 'raised in a Christian household,' so I can't speak to that, but Narnia weirded me out when I first read it because I had jumped into fantasy via Lloyd Alexander and Laurence Yep, both of whom echoed Tolkien (who I had not yet read, then) in going for a very 'other world' voice/tone for their high fantasy stories in other worlds.

Meanwhile Lewis went for a very living-room-conversation style that felt like storytelling to an audience in 'this world' and I frankly did not like it. (Overall I enjoyed the books, but they always had that tendency to be a bit jarring)


In that same way, I often find some things in anime, not jarring in the same way, but certainly disruptive to my experience/enjoyment because I quickly identify them as being based on Japanese social conventions, that I don't have the full context for. And that can be fun when they are integrated into the plot (cf Ranma 1/2), but when they are randomly thrown in for the sake of having an "X" (e.g. Beach) episode, it really annoys me.
Oddly enough I rather dislike Lloyd Alexander for his bastardization of Welsh folkloric figures. He continues the standard Christianized "all underworld/Otherworld figures are Satan with his demonization of the benevolent figure Arawn, he turns the trickster spirit and noted rapist (and possible sister fucker) Gwydion into a noble Aragorn ripoff, and that's just the start.
 
Back
Top