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Bunraku (Samurai Mecha Quest)

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Guessmyname said:
I don't think Melancholeric meant that, but since Ondo's Bunraku needs rebuilding from scratch anyway they could just as well just make it a Verdant Sapling frame.
Not like the heartwood is going to run out any time soon.
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:ninja:
But yeah, it's exactly what I meant.
EDIT: Then again, it is heavier than Ondo's old bunraku... Damn. Okay then, forget I said anything.
 
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I'm gonna have to think this over but I'm leaning towards Verdant Sapling. As amazing and terrifying a super-heavy bunraku would be, there's a lot to be said about requiring less maintenance.

Supply lines decide the fates of armies, specialist war machines doubly so. To require less? An incredibly tempting offer. I'm also liking the possible terminator themes should we ever get a recurring foe.

"Impossible! I shattered that puppet myself a week ago!"

"I have fought that one before. Listen. Understand. That bunraku there. It can't be reasoned with, it can't be bargained with...it doesn't feel pity of remorse or fear...and it absolutely will not stop. Ever. Until we are both dead."
 
[X]A Charging Fortress, a siege frame designed to destroy anything in its path and the heaviest frame ever designed. Emphasizing both the strengths and drawbacks of the Falling Mountain, it is even stronger and more resistant to damage, but also slower and less dextrous.

What can I say, I like both tiny mad scientists and mechs brute forcing their way through ALL THE THINGS. I'm a simple woman, y'see.
 
Guessmyname said:
And hell, in Bunraku-vs-Bunraku we kind of become the endurance predator. Enemy Bunraku wants to kill us? Let it chase us around in circles until it just breaks down. Hit and run and wearing down your opponents becomes an incredibly viable tactic. We can simply outlast our opponents.
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Whatever the other benefits of Verdant Sapling may be, the fact that we are not built for Bunraku-vs-Bunraku combat remains a constant. The upgrade will not magically change the type of our mech. If the enemy sends a competent Rising Tide to kill us, they will, as even with a slight increase in mobility we won't be able to compare with specialized models, one-on-one.

You can't try hit and run on something that is faster than you.
 
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[X] A Verdant Sapling, a self-regenerating model using almost no steel but instead the magical heartwood. Such a model will lose resistance and strength compared to the old frame, gain a slight increase in mobility, but most importantly will heal damage over time and endure almost indefinite exertion.

Maintenance and repairs make puppetteers dependent on their lord even more than they're supposed to be. Taking them out of the equation will save us a lot of potential headaches.
 
Melancholeric said:
I want Ondo to have the Verdant Sapling.
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A noble thought! The issue is that heartwood is heavy. Where you sacrifice resilience, he would be sacrificing speed. It's a choice he might make, but then again perhaps not. He's a scout and short weapon fighter, relying much on his agility.

This is also why Mitsuko isn't salivating over designing "persistence hunter" Chasing Stars that attack, hurt the enemy, retreat to heal all damage, then come back over and over to wear down the enemy. A Chasing Star could use a certain amount of heartwood to enjoy some regeneration benefits, but couldn't use too much without getting too heavy to be a Chasing Star.
 
[X]A Falling Mountain, improved. With Summer's alloyed steel, you will enjoy one of two improvements:
-[X]If you increase the amount of steel up to the same weight as previously, the greater amount of metal will give you an edge in resistance without reducing mobility.
 
Omicron said:
A noble thought! The issue is that heartwood is heavy. Where you sacrifice resilience, he would be sacrificing speed. It's a choice he might make, but then again perhaps not. He's a scout and short weapon fighter, relying much on his agility.

This is also why Mitsuko isn't salivating over designing "persistence hunter" Chasing Stars that attack, hurt the enemy, retreat to heal all damage, then come back over and over to wear down the enemy. A Chasing Star could use a certain amount of heartwood to enjoy some regeneration benefits, but couldn't use too much without getting too heavy to be a Chasing Star.
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Is it possible to "mix and match" materials on Bunraku?
Like, could a Chasing Star use heartwood on its internal mechanisms (gears and whatnot), and for at least some of the wood armoring the torso, but use regular wood for the rest of the body? Weight would go up, but not as much as a "total body conversion", right?

Meanwhile, is it at all helpful or feasible to do something where you actually layer heartwood and starmetal? Say, wood-metal-wood-metal-wood over the torso, and wood-metal-wood on the limbs, with the goal being approximately the same overall weight? The idea being that the starmetal gives better damage resistance for less weight, but the wood layers give it some ability to recover from damage, and maybe absorb some impacts better?

Could we have our internals (gears etc.) upgraded to heartwood no matter which build we choose? Even if the overall endurance isn't the same as a Verdant Sapling, it would surely still help some, yes?
 
KnightDisciple said:
Is it possible to "mix and match" materials on Bunraku?
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Yes, absolutely. In fact this is commonly done even with mundane materials, with craftsmen laboring over which wood is best suited for which part, and using higher quality steel in more vital areas and so on.
Meanwhile, is it at all helpful or feasible to do something where you actually layer heartwood and starmetal? Say, wood-metal-wood-metal-wood over the torso, and wood-metal-wood on the limbs, with the goal being approximately the same overall weight? The idea being that the starmetal gives better damage resistance for less weight, but the wood layers give it some ability to recover from damage, and maybe absorb some impacts better?
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Layering isn't really a thing simply because bunraku aren't that huge. At most you have stuff like some light Rising Tides or heavier Chasing Stars where you have wood parts covered in a thin layer of steel, resulting in something stronger than pure wood but lighter than pure steel, but that's about as far as it gets.

Could we have our internals (gears etc.) upgraded to heartwood no matter which build we choose? Even if the overall endurance isn't the same as a Verdant Sapling, it would surely still help some, yes?
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Weight is the issue, essentially. Changing your internals to heartwood causes such a weight increase that it's not feasible on a Falling Mountain frame that is already very heavy. The Charging Fortress would include some heartwood internals on the most load-bearing parts, but the regenerating factor would effectively be cancelled out by the increased material fatigue from the greater weight.
 
[X]A Verdant Sapling, a self-regenerating model using almost no steel but instead the magical heartwood. Such a model will lose resistance and strength compared to the old frame, gain a slight increase in mobility, but most importantly will heal damage over time and endure almost indefinite exertion
 
[X]A Verdant Sapling, a self-regenerating model using almost no steel but instead the magical heartwood. Such a model will lose resistance and strength compared to the old frame, gain a slight increase in mobility, but most importantly will heal damage over time and endure almost indefinite exertion.
-[X] Would it be possible to have criss-crossing bars of heavenly metal drilled throughout our new wooden armor? The wooden outer armor would still be able to easily heal from minor damage, while the cage should prevent very powerful battering and piercing attacks from easily punching through to us, the operator.
--[X] You also mentioned that the silk ropes used to operate the Bunraku would still suffer from wear over time. Would it be possible to mitigate this somewhat by weaving some of the trees thinnest roots into the silk? This way, whenever the silk stretches from being used, the small roots would break. But when the silk is relaxed for a moment, like at the end of a foot stride, the roots would touch again and grow back together. In this way some of the stress placed upon the silk would be mitigated.

Just some random ideas I had about MAGICAL HEALING WOOD!!!
 
cB557 said:
[ ]A Verdant Sapling, a self-regenerating model using almost no steel but instead the magical heartwood. Such a model will lose resistance and strength compared to the old frame, gain a slight increase in mobility, but most importantly will heal damage over time and endure almost indefinite exertion.

Tough choice. An new siege weapon that can defend itself could really ruin someone's day. And plus Mitsuko likes that option more and it rarely hurts to keep the NPCs happy. Nonetheless, with the Verdant Sapling, barely needing to repair Hope for the Harvest will be extremely useful. Damage puts it out of commission for less time, it can be out in the field longer, and it'll save us money. And being able to recover from infantry-scale damage through the course of a battle, considering that a Falling Mountain is made for taking on large amounts of infantry, will be really good.
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So I was absentmindedly thinking about how this'll change up our tactics and strategy. Probably want to fight a bit less aggressive, to give the regen the breathing room to keep us more or less topped off, and because of our lower max health, so to speak. Fighting other Bunraku would really be best avoided, so we'd need to rely on our teamates to keep us covered. So, we're less able to get in there and break heads when we need too, and the others will need to watch our backs more. In exchange for that, we don't have to pay anywhere near as much upkeep. And it hit me that
Omicron said:
"You did not protect me today," Ondo says, frowning. "I would be dead without you, certainly, but you were not my defender. At the apex of the battle I made a sacrifice to open up the kami's defenses, and you seized that weakness and destroyed him. I lost. Silent Hare, my bunraku, was destroyed. And it was worth it because its destruction allowed you to visit vengeance upon the enemy. This is who you are, Tomoe. Do not seek to protect. Seek to destroy."
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seems a bit out of line with our new aesthetic. It doesn't outright contradict it, but
[X]A Charging Fortress, a siege frame designed to destroy anything in its path and the heaviest frame ever designed. Emphasizing both the strengths and drawbacks of the Falling Mountain, it is even stronger and more resistant to damage, but also slower and less dextrous.
seems like a better fit. If we're gonna destroy, then a siege weapon will be pretty good at causing some destruction.
Plus, Omicron mentioned that if we ever run into another real big thing like the fortress kaiju, a Charging Fortress would be pretty good against it. Killing things that there aren't a lot of things good at killing seems like a good skill to have for a sword without a sheath.
 
[X]A Verdant Sapling, a self-regenerating model using almost no steel but instead the magical heartwood. Such a model will lose resistance and strength compared to the old frame, gain a slight increase in mobility, but most importantly will heal damage over time and endure almost indefinite exertion.
 
Before making any sort of decision, I have to ask: is this one of those "field test unsafe prototype" things that was mentioned earlier?
Excessive or malformed regeneration could do a lot more damage to our Bunraku than no regeneration.
 
[X]A Charging Fortress, a siege frame designed to destroy anything in its path and the heaviest frame ever designed. Emphasizing both the strengths and drawbacks of the Falling Mountain, it is even stronger and more resistant to damage, but also slower and less dextrous.
​
 
InterstellarHobo said:
Before making any sort of decision, I have to ask: is this one of those "field test unsafe prototype" things that was mentioned earlier?
Excessive or malformed regeneration could do a lot more damage to our Bunraku than no regeneration.
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These prototypes may end up having unforeseen consequences due to lack of previous testing, but none of them will be crippling. There are no trap options here. This is less a "take a gamble on a dangerous new technology!" and more a choice of specialization.

Field unsafe prototypes would be more stuff like "I heard you fought kami made out of wood and I was thinking how to counter that, and then it came to me: FLAMETHROWER!"
"Flamethrower."
"Yes!"
"Wielded by a giant wooden armor."
"Also yes!"
"A flamethrower built with pseudo-medieval technology."
"You're not nearly as enthusiastic about this as I thought you'd be."
 
Omicron said:
These prototypes may end up having unforeseen consequences due to lack of previous testing, but none of them will be crippling. There are no trap options here. This is less a "take a gamble on a dangerous new technology!" and more a choice of specialization.

Field unsafe prototypes would be more stuff like "I heard you fought kami made out of wood and I was thinking how to counter that, and then it came to me: FLAMETHROWER!"
"Flamethrower."
"Yes!"
"Wielded by a giant wooden armor."
"Also yes!"
"A flamethrower built with pseudo-medieval technology."
"You're not nearly as enthusiastic about this as I thought you'd be."
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Hey now, that flamethrower idea sounds hype af.

[X]A Verdant Sapling, a self-regenerating model using almost no steel but instead the magical heartwood. Such a model will lose resistance and strength compared to the old frame, gain a slight increase in mobility, but most importantly will heal damage over time and endure almost indefinite exertion

This solves my personal issue with ending up in Summer's debt due to repairs. Reduce repair costs, reduce future debt. A nice trade off since we have no outside income.
 
[X]A Verdant Sapling, a self-regenerating model using almost no steel but instead the magical heartwood. Such a model will lose resistance and strength compared to the old frame, gain a slight increase in mobility, but most importantly will heal damage over time and endure almost indefinite exertion.

I like the idea of being an endurance fighter who just keeps on fighting far longer than any damaged Bunraku has the right too.
 
So Mitsuko is totally a Touhou universe Kappa. I can't unsee it.

[X]A Charging Fortress, a siege frame designed to destroy anything in its path and the heaviest frame ever designed. Emphasizing both the strengths and drawbacks of the Falling Mountain, it is even stronger and more resistant to damage, but also slower and less dextrous.

Seems this will require less of a change in Tomoe's fighting style. Besides, any fight that requires us to keep retreating and coming back repeatedly is sort of a losing proposition regardless. More exposure to combat is always risky.

Best have something that'll put our foe down the first time around. Maybe we can get a grapple system that'll keep our enemy from running away as a later upgrade?
 
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Something that doesn't seem to have come up yet is that, from what I can tell, the Verdant Sapling option may bypass entirely the normal cycle of damage-and-repair that puts samurai deeper and deeper in debt to their lords. That, imo, is far more interesting of a benefit than its combat applications, because it puts us outside a system designed to tie us down. It might even lower our maintenance costs enough that we could survive as ronin indefinitely.

I don't know whether that's something I personally want, mind you, but it's something to consider in light of recent decisions regarding our purpose, and how we'd be exiled if the truth of our failures came out. Also makes for a cool thematic contrast, now that I think of it-- the dead woman walking, clad in living armor.
 
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Pandemonious Ivy said:
Hey now, that flamethrower idea sounds hype af.

[X]A Verdant Sapling, a self-regenerating model using almost no steel but instead the magical heartwood. Such a model will lose resistance and strength compared to the old frame, gain a slight increase in mobility, but most importantly will heal damage over time and endure almost indefinite exertion

This solves my personal issue with ending up in Summer's debt due to repairs. Reduce repair costs, reduce future debt. A nice trade off since we have no outside income.
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DeepWaters said:
Something that doesn't seem to have come up yet is that, from what I can tell, the Verdant Sapling option may bypass entirely the normal cycle of damage-and-repair that puts samurai deeper and deeper in debt to their lords. That, imo, is far more interesting of a benefit than its combat applications, because it puts us outside a system designed to tie us down. It might even lower our maintenance costs enough that we could survive as ronin indefinitely.
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>mfw this was something I literally mentioned first, on the same page, nonetheless

I'm screaming.
 
Pandemonious Ivy said:
>mfw this was something I literally mentioned first, on the same page, nonetheless

I'm screaming.
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Calm down mate. I skimmed through so I could make sure to post in time to influence the vote, so I didn't see the extra two lines of text below your vote. I said "doesn't seem to have come up yet" for that very reason, since I was aware I might miss something because of that. And I did. :V

Also, in light of that, does that mean I got the insightful rating for specifically pointing out that this might allow us to survive as ronin indefinitely? Either that or the thematic contrast, I guess.

Anyways, the theme thing tips it over for me.

[X]A Verdant Sapling, a self-regenerating model using almost no steel but instead the magical heartwood. Such a model will lose resistance and strength compared to the old frame, gain a slight increase in mobility, but most importantly will heal damage over time and endure almost indefinite exertion.

EDIT: Also I just realized that the Verdant Sapling goes really well with our bunraku's agricultural/reaper aesthetic. We could rename it something like Eternal Harvest.
 
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[X]A Charging Fortress, a siege frame designed to destroy anything in its path and the heaviest frame ever designed. Emphasizing both the strengths and drawbacks of the Falling Mountain, it is even stronger and more resistant to damage, but also slower and less dextrous.

I am a simple man.
 
I really want fuckhuge ultraheavy fortress breaker.
I REALLY want it.
Sadly, Verdant Sapling seems like it would be more suited to our purposes, and not needing repairs is fantastic.
[X]A Verdant Sapling, a self-regenerating model using almost no steel but instead the magical heartwood. Such a model will lose resistance and strength compared to the old frame, gain a slight increase in mobility, but most importantly will heal damage over time and endure almost indefinite exertion.
 
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