• Eh, differing opinions there.
  • Spirit Animals synergize with everything. And it's not like Cat Women and Cats, it's not just us liking them, they like us too. Every animal, including spirit animals, by default likes us and understands us rather well. For a paltry 4 points, we gain the ability to get a small bit of aid whenever we might want it. We could get a bird to go snag something shiny for us, for example, especially if we bribe it with food.
  • If Drugs count as something we'd have to roll to resist, we'd be making that roll a lot and we'd eventually fail. And thus, inevitable druggy if what you think is true.
  • Absent Minded might some, but I don't think it would terribly. Especially if we get ourselves a high Intellect, allowing us to pick things out faster in the moments of time we do pay attention.

the animals are not anymore inteligent, so if you want to bribe the bird to steal somthing for you, you still have to train the bird to do so. you are essentially speaking bird as in the language of the bird, if there are no words in the birds language that mean go grab me that shainy thing and I'll give you somthing then you have to spend the time traing that bird to go grab the shiny thing and bring it back, unless this is a magical ability and really does make the bird smarter. you can teach the anamalls much faster then anyone else but it whould still take you a few hours. if it was even minor animal control, then it would be marvalus but its not. I know catwoman can't control cats but I thought her cat emathy was two way?

we have no desire to take drugs so we wouldn't need to roll but sensation junky says *You must make a roll when given a chance to try out something new and different* drugs are new and diffrent, and winslow is merchint teratory no one else wants it.

no not terrable but its un-nessaseryaly hanycaping ourselfs becase it will make us seem more unhinged... ok nevermind that it totaly worth it.
 
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the animals are not anymore inteligent, so if you want to bribe the bird to steal somthing for you, you still have to train the bird to do so. you are essentially speaking bird as in the language of the bird, if there are no words in the birds language that mean go grab me that shainy thing and I'll give you somthing then you have to spend the time traing that bird to go grab the shiny thing and bring it back, unless this is a magical ability and really does make the bird smarter. you can teach the anamalls much faster then anyone else but it whould still take you a few hours. if it was even minor animal control, then it would be marvalus but its not. I know catwoman can't control cats but I thought her cat emathy was two way?

we have no disier to take drugs so we whoulent need to roll but sensation junky says *You must make a roll when given a chance to try out something new and different* drugs are new and diffrent, and winslow is merchint teratory no one else wants it.

no not terrable but its un-nessaseryaly hanycaping ourselfs becase it will make us seem more unhinged... ok nevermind that it totaly worth it.
Animals aren't any more intelligent, but I think you are underestimating the intelligence of animals. Especially animals like Crows, who are well known for their problem-solving skills and for their unique social traits (like holding grudges, and communicating with other crows about assholes they need to get revenge on). Many birds already like collecting shiny things, and there are a number of cases where birds "barter" with humans for treats without having been trained to do so, they simply like the human (because of treats) so started giving said human stuff. With the special ability that allows them to understand us even better, "Speaking Bird", we can thus communicate what we desire far better. Lots of animals should be able to understand "Give me that, you get this".

Yes, that's exactly what I'm saying. If what you think is true, that Drugs count, then we'd have to roll every time we get a chance, for it'd be "something new and different". Those chances would stack up, and we'd inevitably become a Druggy. I don't think Drugs count, because I don't think "You are a druggy" is only a 3 point Malus.
 
Do we actually need bravery? or is it just nice to have? how many times are we going to face supernatral fear?
 
Animals aren't any more intelligent, but I think you are underestimating the intelligence of animals. Especially animals like Crows, who are well known for their problem-solving skills and for their unique social traits (like holding grudges, and communicating with other crows about assholes they need to get revenge on). Many birds already like collecting shiny things, and there are a number of cases where birds "barter" with humans for treats without having been trained to do so, they simply like the human (because of treats) so started giving said human stuff. With the special ability that allows them to understand us even better, "Speaking Bird", we can thus communicate what we desire far better. Lots of animals should be able to understand "Give me that, you get this".

Yes, that's exactly what I'm saying. If what you think is true, that Drugs count, then we'd have to roll every time we get a chance, for it'd be "something new and different". Those chances would stack up, and we'd inevitably become a Druggy. I don't think Drugs count, because I don't think "You are a druggy" is only a 3 point Malus.

I don't know a lot about birds, what I'm trying to say is that it is not a realy good power becaus of how limited comunacation is. most animals dont have a very big vocabulary and thay dont think the same way humans think which complacates comunication a bit, its not that thay won't do favors for you it will just take a long-ish time to tell them what you want the first few times. it works best if its an animal you talk to regularly, otherwize it just takes to long. thay are drawn to you and you understand them, that doesn't mean that thay like you, that part takes time.

If it doesn't turn us into a druggy than yes it would be fun but it really sounds like it does. I think it would be a 3 point malus actually.
 
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Do we actually need bravery? or is it just nice to have? how many times are we going to face supernatral fear?
I'm thinking Shard Induced Fear counts as Supernatural, and there are a fair number of Masters who can induce fear.
I don't know a lot about birds, what I'm trying to say is that it is not a realy good power becaus of how limited comunacation is. most animals dont have a very big vocabulary and thay dont think the same way humans think which complacates comunication a bit, its not that thay won't do favors for you it will just take a long-ish time to tell them what you want the first few times. it works best if its an animal you talk to regularly, otherwize it just takes to long. thay are drawn to you and you understand them, that doesn't mean that thay like you, that part takes time.

If it doesn't turn us into a druggy than yes it would be fun but it really sounds like it does. I think it would be a 3 point malus actually.
Birds don't need a big vocab or think the same way as humans. With Creature Comfort inherently making communication easier, we should be able to communicate simple desires with ease. And then there are all the things that we don't even need to communicate. Someone is aggressing us and there's a dog wandering nearby? That dog likes us, and will probably come to our aid. Same with every cat, bird, squirrel, and possibly bug. We aren't communicating anything besides duress, and those animals are naturally drawn to us and naturally like us.

Why would an animal be drawn towards us if they don't like us? We don't got a literal animal magnet, so they gotta have their own reasons to come over to us, the only one that would consistently apply would be them liking us.


Being addicted to drugs should be 5 at least. Because unlike the other 3 pointers, we can't avoid it. Phobias aren't stalking us every moment of the day (well, unless we pick a very general one), and those Night-terrors only happen sometimes. Being a Druggy? That is all the time.
 
I'm thinking Shard Induced Fear counts as Supernatural, and there are a fair number of Masters who can induce fear.

Birds don't need a big vocab or think the same way as humans. With Creature Comfort inherently making communication easier, we should be able to communicate simple desires with ease. And then there are all the things that we don't even need to communicate. Someone is aggressing us and there's a dog wandering nearby? That dog likes us, and will probably come to our aid. Same with every cat, bird, squirrel, and possibly bug. We aren't communicating anything besides duress, and those animals are naturally drawn to us and naturally like us.

Why would an animal be drawn towards us if they don't like us? We don't got a literal animal magnet, so they gotta have their own reasons to come over to us, the only one that would consistently apply would be them liking us.


Being addicted to drugs should be 5 at least. Because unlike the other 3 pointers, we can't avoid it. Phobias aren't stalking us every moment of the day (well, unless we pick a very general one), and those Night-terrors only happen sometimes. Being a Druggy? That is all the time.

how many masters are we going to fight? if it protected us from emotional manipulation than it whould be a no brainer, but fear is a combat enhancer if you know how to use it, and I'm pretty shure that the Joker knows how to use it. how many masters going to use fear on us? other then glory girl. I don't think we need it unless you know somthing that I don't.

how to use animals in combat is a no brainer, but it doesn't say anywhere in the description that they like us. We draw people to us to but that doesn't mean they would takle a security guard for us. I don't think we suddenly become important enough to every animal that we cross paths with that they will attack an opponent that they would normally run away from, again if we had a tiger... this skill is not animal control, it is the animal equivalent to social fu and that takes time, this power is not as useful as it looks unless you have animal companions or a power that requires us to spend a lot of time in close proximity with animals. maybe that are drawn to us because we smell delicious?
 
Creature Comfort is worth getting (I surrender), I'm just saying that I think you're misinterpreting it. What we need an actual example of how it works.

I would rather have only one joker vote too, so if it comes down to it I will switch to yours, I'm just trying to properly min-max (because it's Skitter). [yours just isn't broken enough, for my taste.]

Really, I need to know how many masters we are going to fight and how many of them use fear as their primary (or secondary) weapon. I think glory girl is the only cape we are likely to run into who regularly uses fear.

for meta reasons yes it is unlikely that sensation junky will make us addicts.
 
how is this?

[x][PLAN] Hello Darkness V.3
-[x] Mig 5 (-5)
-[x] Fin 10 (-21)
-[x] Sta 5 (-5)
-[x] Int 12 (-31)
-[x] Will 10 (-21)
-[x] App 7 (-10)
-[x] Cha 6 (-7)
-[x] Rec 1 (-0)
-[x] Merits
--[x] Cross Dominant (-1)
--[x] Born into the Light (-1)
--[x] Marked by Shadows (-1)
--[x] Would I lie to you? (-1)
--[x] Shining Soul (-1)
--[x] Enhanced Senses x2 - vision/hearing (-2)
--[x] Creature Comfort x4 (-4)
--[x] Moxie (-2)
--[x] Eidetic Memory (-2)
--[x] With Grace (-2)
--[x] Foreboding Feelings (-2)
--[x] Cat-like Balance (-2)
--[x] Double Jointed (-2)
--[x] Silken Voice (-2)
--[x] Crack Driver (-3)
--[x] Daredevil (-3)
--[x] Antivenin in the vein (-3)
--[x] Thinking with your soul (-4)
--[x] On Your Toes (-4)
--[x] Toughness (-5)
-[x] Maluses
--[x] Over confident (+1)
--[x] Curiosity (+2)
--[X] Sensation Junkie (+2)
--[x] Absent-Minded (+3)
--[x] Loathing - Endbringers/kaiju (+3)
--[x] Unusual Taint x4 - bone white skin/acid green eyes/her blood isn't just vivid, its fluorescent./Warped Sense of Humor - You find things funny that you really shouldn't find funny, leaving you smiling and laughing when everyone else is shocked and appalled. (+12)
--[x]Another Life (+4)

(120-5-5-7-10-21-21-31-1-1-1-1-1-4-4-2-2-2-2-2-2-2-2-3-3-3-4-5+1+2+2+3+3+12+4=0)
 
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[X] You remember racing with your enemy, dancing circles around the rest of the world, all in the attempts to be one step ahead. You knew that it was only a matter of time before you were passed that finish line and leave him behind in your dust.

[X][PLAN] Plan Looking for Magic
-[X] Mig 4 -3
-[X] Fin 4 -3
-[X] Sta 8 -13
-[X] Int 16 -57
-[X] Will 8 -13
-[X] App 4 -3
-[X] Cha 4 -3
-[X] Rec 8 -13
-[X] Merits
--[X] Shining Soul -1
--[X] Thinking with your soul -4
--[X] Toughness -5
--[X] Antivenin in the vein -3
--[X] Bravery -2
--[X] Eidetic Memory -2
--[X] Foreboding Feelings -2
--[X] Born Into the Light -1
--[X] Cross Dominant -1
-[X] Maluses
--[X] Loathing (Villains) +3
--[X] Nightmare +3
--[X] Shy +3

nothing about this helps us learn magic. If you really want magic;

[:)][PLAN] Plan Dark Lord Skitter
-[] Mig 1 -0
-[] Fin 15 -50
-[] Sta 1 -0
-[] Int 15 -50
-[] Will 8 -13
-[] App 8 -13
-[] Cha 8 -13
-[] Rec 1 -0
-[] Merits
--[] Cross Dominant -1
--[] Marked by Shadows -1
--[] Would I lie to you? -1
--[] Enhanced Senses, hearing -1
--[] Eidetic Memory -2
--[] Foreboding Feelings -2
--[] Silken Voice -2
--[] On Your Toes -4
-[] Maluses
--[] Over confident +1
--[] Phobia - death/dying +3
--[] Curiosity +2
--[] Sensation Junkie +2
--[] Loathing - all who stand against you +3
--[] Unusual Taint x6 - bone white skin/glowing (insert color here) eyes/her blood isn't just vivid, its fluorescent./her skin feels cold to anyone who touches her - her skin doesn't seem cold to her but everyone else does feel feverishly warm/her refletion seems just a little bit more alive-exsited-bloodthirsty/her shadow is biger and darker than it should be +18
--[] Another Life +4

120-50-50-13-13-13-1-1-1-1-2-2-2-4+1+3+2+2+3+18+4=0
 
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[X] You remember looking at your great enemy, even when no one else realized what he meant. The words he spoke were a convincing veil, but a threat to all he was. So when no one else saw what he was, you made sure they would see the truth.

[X][PLAN] Plan Social Butterfly (-112 pts)
-[2 CP] Mig 3
-[13 CP] Fin 8
-[5 CP] Sta 5
-[17 CP] Int 10
-[13 CP] Will 8
-[17 CP] App 9
-[31 CP] Cha 12
-[7 CP] Rec 6
-[X] Merits
--[1 CP] Would I lie to you?
--[1 CP] Shining Soul
--[2 CP] Moxie
--[2 CP] With Grace
--[2 CP] Foreboding Feelings
--[2 CP] Silken Voice
-[X] Maluses
--[+1 CP] A world in Technicolor
--[+2 CP] Curiosity

Taylor Hebert can into Social :V

your not thinking big enough

[:)][PLAN] Plan frindly spider
-[0 CP] Mig 1
-[21 CP] Fin 10
-[0 CP] Sta 1
-[26 CP] Int 11
-[21 CP] Will 10
-[26 CP] App 11
-[26 CP] Cha 11
-[0 CP] Rec 1
-[X] Merits
--[1 CP] Born into the Light
--[1 CP] Marked by Shadows
--[1 CP] Would I lie to you?
--[1 CP] Enhanced Sense of hearing
--[1 CP] Shining Soul
--[2 CP] Moxie
--[2 CP] Eidetic Memory
--[2 CP] With Grace
--[2 CP] Foreboding Feelings
--[2 CP] Silken Voice
-[X] Maluses
--[+1 CP] A world in Technicolor
--[+1 CP] Over confident
--[+1 CP] Deep Sleeper
--[+2 CP] Curiosity
--[+3 CP] Absent-Minded
--[+3 CP] Loathing - miscommunication
--[+4 CP] Another Life

120-21-26-21-26-26-1-1-1-1-1-2-2-2-2-2+1+1+1+2+3+3+4=0
 
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--[x] Loathing - Endbringers/kaiju (+3)
--[x] Unusual Taint x4 - bone white skin/acid green eyes/her blood isn't just vivid, its fluorescent./her skin feels ice cold to anyone who touches her - her skin doesn't seem cold to her but everyone else does feel feverishly warm (+12)
--[x]Another Life (+4)
I don't think the Loathing really fits in character. Sure it'll be useful, but it's not really something either Taylor or Joker had. They might hate the Endbringers, but it wasn't a true all-consuming loathing.

Again, I don't think we should have such coloration till we earn it. What do you think of my 3 taints? They feel enough like Joker to me, her past life bleeding into this one, but not coming through in full force, just a taint.

... Why in the world would you put a cap on Synchronization? Presumably it does more than just effect how much like the previous guy we act, probably also effects whatever powers we get as well.




However, I'm sadly feeling like this quest might have died before it could even really get started, what with how quiet @WastingPixies Is being.
 
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Know what, I'm actually going to stat out a build

[Only Sorta JK][PLAN] Plan Eat your Arc-Reactor out, Tony Stark
- [ ] You remember looking at your great enemy, even when no one else realized what he meant. The words he spoke were a convincing veil, but a threat to all he was. So when no one else saw what he was, you made sure they would see the truth.
- [ ] Mig -2-1
- [ ] Fin - 2-1
- [ ] Sta - 2-1
- [ ] Int -23 -101
- [ ] Will - 2-1
- [ ] App - 8-13
- [ ] Cha - 2-1
- [ ] Rec - 2-1

8 Appearance to not be ugly.

[:D][PLAN] Suck my Data Jarvis
-[ ] Mig -1-0
-[ ] Fin - 10 -21
-[ ] Sta - 1-0
-[ ] Int -23 -101
-[ ] Will - 7 -10
-[ ] App - 10 -21
-[ ] Cha - 7-10
-[ ] Rec - 1-0
-[] Merits
--[] Eidetic Memory -2
--[] Crack Driver -3
-[] Maluses
--[] A world in Technicolor +1
--[] Nightmare +3
--[] Over confident +1
--[] Airhead +1
--[] Deep Sleeper +1
--[] Phobia, zombies +3
--[] Shy +1
--[] Curiosity +2
--[] Sensation Junkie +2
--[] Loathing, unbowed/undefeated/not yet naturalised enemies +3
--[] Unusual Taint x8 - blue skin/dark blue hair/glowing pink-red eyes/pointed ears/her blood isn't just vivid, its fluorescent./her skin feels cold to anyone who touches her - her skin doesn't seem cold to her but everyone else does feel feverishly warm/all sounds she makes sound cold-desolate-empty/her shadow is biger and darker than it should be +24
--[] Another Life +4
--[] Fragile +5

120-21-101-10-21-10-2-2-3+1+1+1+1+3+3+3+2+2+24+4+5=0
someware between Loki and Thrawn
without the scars
 
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/her refletion seems just a little bit more alive-exsited-bloodthirsty/her shadow is biger and darker than it should be
Those are more Joker than Loki or Thrawn.
Plus, I'm having a hard time mentally reconciling all those unusual taints, with Appearance 10.

That Loathing seems very dangerous for us, because in the world of Worm, there are ALWAYS going to be people classified as such, making it almost possible to take any action that isn't currently trying to take htem down. Especially since not all of them will be Villains.
 
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I don't think the Loathing really fits in character. Sure it'll be useful, but it's not really something either Taylor or Joker had. They might hate the Endbringers, but it wasn't a true all-consuming loathing.

Again, I don't think we should have such coloration till we earn it. What do you think of my 3 taints? They feel enough like Joker to me, her past life bleeding into this one, but not coming through in full force, just a taint.

... Why in the world would you put a cap on Synchronization? Presumably it does more than just effect how much like the previous guy we act, probably also effects whatever powers we get as well.




However, I'm sadly feeling like this quest might have died before it could even really get started, what with how quiet @WastingPixies Is being.

Honestly it's one of the only things I can see the character loathing. she didn't in cannon but that is true for most of these things.

I don't think that I'm being too blatant, if I use different colors she probably wouldn't get Jokers colors, I think it's the costume that will be blatantly joker-ish, and she probably won't make that until her Bad Day.

I don't think we should achieve 100% Synchronization, we want to be his successor not his clone.
 
Those are more Joker than Loki or Thrawn.
Plus, I'm having a hard time mentally reconciling all those unusual taints, with Appearance 10.

That Loathing seems very dangerous for us, because in the world of Worm, there are ALWAYS going to be people classified as such, making it almost possible to take any action that isn't currently trying to take htem down. Especially since not all of them will be Villains.

:D
YES

I mean in apperance (and personality, though probaly not as much)
 
[x] You remember looking at your great enemy, even when no one else realized what he meant. The words he spoke were a convincing veil, but a threat to all he was. So when no one else saw what he was, you made sure they would see the truth.
[x][PLAN] Plan Brockton Warlord 2.0
- [x] Stats - 92

-- [x] Mig 6 - 7
-- [x] Fin 8 - 13
-- [x] Sta 8 - 13
-- [x] Int 12 - 31
-- [x] Will 8 - 13
-- [x] App 5 - 5
-- [x] Cha 5 - 5
-- [x] Rec 5 - 5
- [x] Merits - 39
-- [x] Loyalty - Defending the helpless - 1
-- [x] Cross Dominant - 1
-- [x] Marked by Shadows - 1
-- [x] Would I lie to you? - 1
-- [x] Enhanced Senses - hearing, sight and smell - 3
-- [x] Shining Soul - 1
-- [x] Eidetic Memory - 2
-- [x] With Grace - 2
-- [x] Foreboding Feelings - 2
-- [x] Bravery - 2
-- [x] Cat-like Balance - 2
-- [x] Double Jointed - 2
-- [x] Daredevil - 3
-- [x] Antivenin in the vein - 3
-- [x] Thinking with your soul - 4
-- [x] On Your Toes - 4
-- [x] Toughness - 5
- [x] Maluses + 11
-- [x] A world in Technicolor + 1
-- [x] Over confident + 1
-- [x] Shy + 2
-- [x] Curiosity + 2
-- [x] Sensation Junkie + 2
-- [x] Loathing - Abuse of power + 3

I kinda like the idea of a Taylor with a goal of justice but that gets on better with villains and is often scene in the worst light. Then she's also got a loathing for all abuse of power, for added conflict!

Curiosity and Sensation Junkie, I think are good ways to advance the story. Passive people who don't involve themselves in things don't make for as interesting protagonists.

Going for more merits than stats since I think they're better value and hoping stats are easier to obtain. Also going for semi self righteous Taylor who could end up a bit of a fanatic but well meaning. Just the type to rationalise taking over a city but also capable of being convinced to help a villain with a sob story. Hopefully her higher intelligence and shining soul(?) will allow for the magic to make either goal achievable!
...
[:)][PLAN] Plan Warlord Skitter
- [] Stats - 107

-- [] Mig 10 - 21
-- [] Fin 8 - 13
-- [] Sta 7 - 10
-- [] Int 10 - 21
-- [] Will 8 - 13
-- [] App 7 - 10
-- [] Cha 9 - 17
-- [] Rec 1 - 0
- [] Merits - 41
-- [] Loyalty - My City - 1
-- [] Born into the Light - 1
-- [] Marked by Shadows - 1
-- [] Would I lie to you? - 1
-- [] Enhanced Senses - hearing and sight - 3
-- [] Shining Soul - 1
-- [] Moxie - 2
-- [] Eidetic Memory - 2
-- [] With Grace - 2
-- [] Cunning Linguist - 2
-- [] Foreboding Feelings - 2
-- [] Cat-like Balance - 2
-- [] Double Jointed - 2
-- [] Daredevil - 3
-- [] Antivenin in the vein - 3
-- [] Thinking with your soul - 4
-- [] On Your Toes - 4
-- [] Toughness - 5
- [] Maluses + 28
-- [] Nightmare +1
-- [] Over confident + 1
-- [] Phobia - subtaranean monstrositys + 3
-- [] Curiosity + 2
-- [] Sensation Junkie + 2
-- [] Loathing - [anyone/anythimg] that [hurts/wants to hurt] My City + 3
-- [] Unusual Taint - bone white skin - glowing (insert color here) eyes - her blood isn't just vivid, its fluorescent - her shadow is biger and darker than it should be + 12
-- [] Another Life + 4
 
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You know, if this quest turns out to not be dead, I would actually be very interested in a Int Heavy build winning. Because I'm very interested in what being SUPER Intelligent will play out like. With "Suck my Data Jarvis", we are smarter than Luthor. By a fair margin. Like, we are to Luthor, what Luthor is to a sorta-bright Teenager (23 is 7 bigger than 16, 16 is 7 bigger than 9, 9 is only one point higher than the average 8). We are literally the smartest person Worm has ever had, hell smarter than a Human physically can be while still being human, somehow. And we are that smart without powers.
 
You know, if this quest turns out to not be dead, I would actually be very interested in a Int Heavy build winning. Because I'm very interested in what being SUPER Intelligent will play out like. With "Suck my Data Jarvis", we are smarter than Luthor. By a fair margin. Like, we are to Luthor, what Luthor is to a sorta-bright Teenager (23 is 7 bigger than 16, 16 is 7 bigger than 9, 9 is only one point higher than the average 8). We are literally the smartest person Worm has ever had, hell smarter than a Human physically can be while still being human, somehow. And we are that smart without powers.

:)
and we can still triger... I think... Probaly :D
 
It might not be dead... maybe...
WastingPixies has been on, but hasn't been saying anything. It's been mostly just you and me these last two pages. There are a number of questions I asked them that I would really like answered before votes close, as they are very important to character creation. Like those stat sheets. Taylor had below average stats, but how below average was she? Is a rating of 4 just rather weak, or is it practically crippled?

Relatedly, another important question, is how many opportunities will we be getting to improve our stat spread during the story? Because it's one thing giving ourselves weaknesses expecting to grow out of them, it's another to give ourselves weaknesses that we know we will be stuck with for practically the rest of the story.
 
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WastingPixies has been on, but hasn't been saying anything. It's been mostly just you and me these last two pages. There are a number of questions I asked them that I would really like answered before votes close, as they are very important to character creation. Like those stat sheets. Taylor had below average stats, but how below average was she? Is a rating of 4 just rather weak, or is it practically crippled?

Relatedly, another important question, is how many opportunities will we be getting to improve our stat spread during the story? Because it's one thing giving ourselves weaknesses expecting to grow out of them, it's another to give ourselves weaknesses that we know we will be stuck with for practically the rest of the story.
:( I'm trying to be optomistic... but yes, we are probaly dancing on its grave.
 
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