You're a special kind of stupid, aren't you? Brock Lesnar weighed in at 265 wounds for his bout at UFC 181. His opponent Frank Mir weighed in at 255 pounds.
And yet he also lost to John Cena so what does that say?

In addition, Mir holds a black belt in Brazilian Jiu Jitsu, has fought professionally at a high level for years, and is a former UFC champion.
Bruce Lee invented his own martial art.

And as far as the whole "OMG he had to train with car parts because he was SOO hardcore"...wrong again.

Lee used a Marcey's Circuit Trainer weight and conditioning set, built in Glendale, California, which was donated to La Salle College in Hong Kong when he passed away. (Source Bruce Lee: The Art of Expressing the Human Body by John Little).
Actually much of his equipment was homemade by a friend named George Lee.


Please stop spewing your idiotic nonsense about Bruce Lee. He deserves a better legacy than being wanted to high heaven by ignorant weaboos.
Is it still a weaboo if it's Chinese?
 
And yet he also lost to John Cena so what does that say?

You know, normally I'd assume that someone was joking around, but given the level of goofiness you've already shown, I think this needs to be said.

Professional wrestling is not real, Volant.


Bruce Lee invented his own martial art.

Do you have any idea how meaningless that is? Anybody can invent their own martial art. I just invented my own martial art right now. (Akai Gaijin Jujutsu. It is a mix of bad kickboxing, bad hapkido, and Brazilian Jiu Jitsu. Anyone who wants to be an accredited Grandmaster in this system, PM me and have your credit cards ready).

Not to mention that as a style Jeet Kune Do is all over the place, ranging from Dan Inosanto and Erik Paulson to nonsense that probably has Bruce spinning in his grave...

Anyway, Lee's Jeet Kune Do was never the huge quantum leap in martial arts comparable to Mas Oyama founding Kyokushin karate, Jigoro Kano codifying judo, or the Gracie family adapting Brazilian Jiu Jitsu.

Actually much of his equipment was homemade by a friend named George Lee.

George Lee. Umm. Okay. Citation?
 
Professional wrestling is not real, Volant.
No shit? I know that.

George Lee. Umm. Okay. Citation?
Here

I have absolutely no clue what you're talking about.
UFC unlike boxing is run by one man that has control over all the fights. If he wanted to he could tell fighters to lose fights in order to create a bigger payday for himself or to get a cut of the massive amounts of betting that goes on with the fights. Boxing did it for years and they had dozens of owners. Now to be perfectly clear I'm not saying Dana White is fixing UFC fights only that he could with little effort.

Now can this be the end of it? This is totally off topic and I have really no interest in the MMA world and was just trying to make a point.
 
UFC unlike boxing is run by one man that has control over all the fights. If he wanted to he could tell fighters to lose fights in order to create a bigger payday for himself or to get a cut of the massive amounts of betting that goes on with the fights. Boxing did it for years and they had dozens of owners. Now to be perfectly clear I'm not saying Dana White is fixing UFC fights only that he could with little effort.

Now can this be the end of it? This is totally off topic and I have really no interest in the MMA world and was just trying to make a point.
You brought up Extreme Rules 2012 for a reason while trying to defend your weird "Lesnar's a chump who couldn't fight Bruce Lee" argument. Either explain that reason or concede it, don't try to weasel out by going "Wah I didn't want to talk about this thing I myself brought up."
 
Ok i saw the trailer and honestly the only thing i liked was Batfleck. Which surprised the hell out of me.

Everything else looked like shit.
 
Ok i saw the trailer and honestly the only thing i liked was Batfleck. Which surprised the hell out of me.

Everything else looked like shit.
Everything else aside, Ben Affleck is genuinely a good actor and I trust him to deliver as best a performance as can be managed in these circumstances.
 
You brought up Extreme Rules 2012 for a reason while trying to defend your weird "Lesnar's a chump who couldn't fight Bruce Lee" argument. Either explain that reason or concede it, don't try to weasel out by going "Wah I didn't want to talk about this thing I myself brought up."
No I brought it up as a joke because I wanted to show how little this shit means to me and I'd guess most of this thread. Plus I really don't care if I'm totally wrong and Lesnar could beat the shit out of Bruce Lee. I care far more about a fight involving a man dressed up in a blue suit with a cape vs a man that is so committed to the bat image that he put ears on his super power armor.
 
Its too big, too fast. Already, we've got Lex Luthor, Doomsday/Zod, Wonder Woman, Bats/Supey, and possibly The Joker competing for screen time. We don't care about this version of Batman and Wonder Woman, because they're just showing up, one apparently now branding criminals and the other just sort of popping up and joining in without a word.

Actually in this respect I think there problem was cutting themselves off from the Nolanverse entirely. You just had three massively successful Batman films. You even had a perfect moment at the end where Christian Bale hands off the Batman torch at the end of the film giving you a perfect excuse to a; recast Batman and b: tweak his character to the plot.

All of the events of the Batman trilogy could have happened before Superman showed up. So thus you have the groundwork for both characters in a crossover. And you can even play into the themes of the Man of Steel and the Batman trilogy at the same time.

The ultimate lesson of the Nolan Batman trilogy is that Bruce Wayne had to let go. It was about trusting others and no trying to seize all the power to himself because he was only mortal. Batman is needed, but Batman is a symbol and the man under the mask can change. Man of Steel was the opposite story, it was about Clark Kent realizing he can't just stand aside; he has to be the hero because no one else can do what he can do. That's why he doesn't wear a mask; he needs to be himself, the Man of Steel who accepts his fate.

The confrontation between these ideologies is self-evident but I will belabor them. Batman believes Superman needs to back off and trust humans to save themselves. Superman doesn't trust Batman because he doesn't hold himself to Clark's standards.

The fight between them isn't about Batman getting his punch on against Superman for some crappy version of revenge. It's about Batman teaching Clark a lesson via conflict.

In that respect Lex makes a perfect villain for them to ultimately team up against. He's the kind of threat Superman can't/won't stop but that Batman can. Similarly he has access to the kind of weaponry Batman can't overcome (perhaps back-engineered kryptonian tech in this continuity) but that Superman can.

You can even work in Wonder Woman into this plot as well. There is every reason for her not to show up anytime before Man of Steel because Thymescira don't care about Man's World or its pointy-cowled vigilantes and murder clowns. But Superman? Well, that's a different thing.

In this respect, what I'd do is have her play the Audience Surrogate. We introduce her in civilian mode as Diana and she gets to be the one Bruce and Clark try to win over to their respective viewpoints. Only in the climax does she reveal her Amazonian superpowers and convince the two of them to work together.

That would be a movie I would like to see.

Instead Zombie Laser Monster versus Goddamn Batman, Whiny Superman and Super-model.
 
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It's the only way it could have been structured. Like neither is going to win decisively, and there has to be a reason for them to consider forming the Justice League. I mean Batman and Superman are never going to be friends, they're people that at their core would plan just not like each other, so you have to have some reason for them to join forces.

DCAU versions had Batman as kind of a grump but they had a mutual respect, trust, and could enjoy each other's company and jokes. Young Justice versions hung out together at diners for lunch in civ mode to talk about personal problems and obviously had an implied close relationship as very familiar friends.

And those versions were great.

Why couldn't they like each other? Kingdom Come, one of the most beloved comics of all time, had it seem that they hated one another until it was revealed as a gambit.

Edit: The DCAU versions initially didn't get along mostly due to trying to one up each other socially and heroically, but that settled out by Justice League.
 
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Everything else aside, Ben Affleck is genuinely a good actor and I trust him to deliver as best a performance as can be managed in these circumstances.
Dunno, from what I've seen in the trailer, Afleck will indeed be a very good Batman (stupid costume notwithstanding), but he will be a terrible Bruce Wayne.
 
DCAU versions had Batman as kind of a grump but they had a mutual respect, trust, and could enjoy each other's company and jokes. Young Justice versions hung out together at diners for lunch in civ mode to talk about personal problems and obviously had an implied close relationship as very familiar friends.

And those versions were great.

Why couldn't they like each other? Kingdom Come, one of the most beloved comics of all time, had it seem that they hated one another until it was revealed as a gambit.

Edit: The DCAU versions initially didn't get along mostly due to trying to one up each other socially and heroically, but that settled out by Justice League.

Also iirc the PRE-Miller comics had them as really good best friends and almost brothers (both of them being known as the "world's finest"), hell I think there was one comic that revealed Clark was nearly adopted by the Wayne's as Bruce's actual brother.
 
It has been since like...the first five or so pages that I actually made a comment on this thread and on this movie. I stated back then the movie would almost definitely be polarizing, I didn't expect to care for it due to my hang-ups with Man of Steel, and generally figured that if you end up liking it that's cool but I anticipate not enjoying it.

Second trailer rolls around and that sentiment...has not really changed at all.

There are things I like in the trailer. I actually kinda like Affleck's Bruce Wayne, and I like this Lex's personality. I'm unsure on the former's Batman and sorta wished the latter was a different character (since he's pretty stuck in the "evil business guy" spot as a result) but I enjoyed what I saw of them.

There was more I wasn't fond of, though. I agree that it feels as though the movie's bloating itself here. It reminds me of Amazing Spiderman 2's bloating of villains, so the pacing might not be the smoothest, and the introduction of other opponents in the trailer sorta undermines the selling point of the movie, that being the titular battle. I'd be more okay with the Doomsday fight if they didn't just straight up advertise it, really; that's more the advertising campaign's fault than the film's but it leaves a sour taste in my mouth. Same with Wonder Woman (and the implication that she shows up out of nowhere doesn't really help much).

I'm also not fond of the framing of the fight. I don't know much about The Dark Knight Returns which this apparently takes inspiration from but from what I do know (mostly it being explained, seeing panels, and seeing chunks of the animated adaptation), that was a fight built up over maybe a decade of tension and planning, while this seems to take place not long after Man of Steel. There's a lot of character between it and that's part of what makes the battle so memorable. It's not just proof that Batman can beat Superman, it's a dramatic fight between two old supposed allies who've grown apart and have finally reached the point where it shatters. It was also following the perspective of the underdog of the battle (and yes, Batman in this context was by far the underdog and had to rely on a lot of strategy to overcome Superman and what he stands for), thus adding another layer of tension. It's a battle framed brilliantly and with tons of tension. And take that from somebody who never expected to ever compliment Frank Miller.

The fight here...well, assuming Doomsday comes after that, we've basically been spoiled on the results. It's basically going to amount to nothing aside from an introduction. It's two strangers meeting, one being angry at the other, and then they fight and eventually team up. I guess with the Justice League movie being planned there's not much else that COULD happen, but it'd be nice to at least not show the resolution in the trailer. I do think that they MIGHT plan for Batman to beat Superman and leave him in a blue screen of death where he ponders his own mortality and the weight of his actions, which would be at least somewhat neat, though not without its own problems; Batman had literally a decade to plan his victory in the comic from what I know, after all. But it'd be something. But regardless, spoiling the results definitely removes a layer of tension from things. Also, given that I'm actually not fond of Man of Steel's fight scenes (the choreography is fine and dynamic, but I HATE the camera direction, it moves too much and lacks clarity, it just became white noise of zooms, shakes, and shrapnel for me), I can't say I have the highest hopes going in for the battle itself. Taking inspiration from DKR I'm fine with, but it should be noted that there's a lot more to that fight than the battle itself, and that's where you REALLY want to draw the inspiration from. A fight is a fight, but proper tension can make a fight MORE than just that. Whether or not this is more than a fight has yet to be seen, but it's setting itself up as...well, just a fight.

And then I have nitpicks like that I'm not fond of this Clark Kent (compare to Christopher Reeves who actually looked and acted like a natural guy as Kent; here he just...sorta feels like Superman in glasses, which yeah he is but a physical performance can pack a big punch), I still don't like the obvious Jesus symbolism, and I still don't really enjoy Snyder's style in general. So...yeah, still not really feeling this one.

I'm not going to say the movie will definitely 100% be bad. I said before that it'd be preemptive to speak in absolutes on these matters, and as little as I like this trailer I still stand by that. A lot of this is still speculation based on what I know and what I anticipate. And I still anticipate about as much polarity in opinions as Man of Steel had. I expect, for the most part, the people here who are confident it will suck will still think it sucks and the people confident it will be great will still think it's great, with a few outliers whose expectations are betrayed in either direction. Of course, it's entirely possible I'm wrong and it could be received a lot better or worse, but that's just the nature of speculation. If this turns out to impress me, I'll happily eat my own words and enjoy the film, but for now I'm still not particularly excited or expecting a particularly interesting film. But that's just me, so who knows.
 
DCAU versions had Batman as kind of a grump but they had a mutual respect, trust, and could enjoy each other's company and jokes. Young Justice versions hung out together at diners for lunch in civ mode to talk about personal problems and obviously had an implied close relationship as very familiar friends.

And those versions were great.

Why couldn't they like each other? Kingdom Come, one of the most beloved comics of all time, had it seem that they hated one another until it was revealed as a gambit.

Edit: The DCAU versions initially didn't get along mostly due to trying to one up each other socially and heroically, but that settled out by Justice League.
They wouldn't like each other because they're two people that have totally opposing core ideologies. Yes, given the millions of versions of the two characters this might not always be true I grant you, but I feel that Batman is someone that thinks people at their core are bad people and they need something to keep them in line, Superman feels the opposite. These guys just would not agree with each other, and Batman at least is the kind of guy that wouldn't engage with people he doesn't agree with.
 
but I feel that Batman is someone that thinks people at their core are bad people and they need something to keep them in line

When has Batman ever been this?

Edit:


A guy so idealistic he thinks he can make a difference in a corrupt city with his wits and hands. A guy who went back to buy that dress because he believes in the good in someone coming through if they can escape their circumstances and weaknesses.

Batman as a hero with troubles he's trying to overcome within himself and be more. Not some insanely fascist psychopath out to beat people into empty submission and then do it on repeat. He actually believes enough in the legal system enough to trust it and is so idealistic he keeps trusting it.

And sometimes it works, like with The Ventriloquist in one of the best episodes of Batman TAS, or Baby Doll, at least for a time, or Harley, or the Riddler. Or Catwoman, or Ivy in the comics for a time.

This is the guy who rehabilitates the Man Bat and sits with a little psychic on death's door so she knows she isn't alone.

Edit:



This is why Batman stories can be worth reading or watching. He believed that that scared and hurt child had the goodness in her to do the right thing, and he wanted her to know that, and know he wasn't going to let her face the dark alone. That's Batman.

 
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In all likelyhood, I won't be going to the midnight release to this like I do for most comic book shows. I'll just wait for the reviews and either go later or just save my money for Suicide Squad.

This has all the makings of a terrible movie and the trailers pretty much show how desperate WB is at trying to catch up to Marvel.

I just hope if this tanks that it won't degrade people's faith in future comic films.
 
Stop: Stop
Except he's Batman and Batman is the best.
Well yeah, arguing plausibility with superheroes is dumb anyway, but really dumb here because I'm right, in the sense that we all know that the two will have a fight, and that it will be at least somewhat even. A movie doesn't have to be realistic or logical, it just has to be entertaining.
Yeah, Superman is so fucked.
No I brought it up as a joke because I wanted to show how little this shit means to me and I'd guess most of this thread. I really don't care if I'm totally wrong and Lesnar could beat the shit out of Bruce Lee. I care far more about a fight involving a man dressed up in a blue suit with a cape vs a man that is so committed to the bat image that he put ears on his super power armor.
stop @VolantRedX, your presence in this thread has been extremely disruptive to good discussion and debate. You are in violation of SV's Rule 4, and in keeping with your prior infraction history, have received 75 infraction points and an indefinite threadban.
 
Well, after that happened...

Personally, I may check this movie out on DVD.
 
The ultimate lesson of the Nolan Batman trilogy is that Bruce Wayne had to let go. It was about trusting others and no trying to seize all the power to himself because he was only mortal. Batman is needed, but Batman is a symbol and the man under the mask can change. Man of Steel was the opposite story, it was about Clark Kent realizing he can't just stand aside; he has to be the hero because no one else can do what he can do. That's why he doesn't wear a mask; he needs to be himself, the Man of Steel who accepts his fate.

The confrontation between these ideologies is self-evident but I will belabor them. Batman believes Superman needs to back off and trust humans to save themselves. Superman doesn't trust Batman because he doesn't hold himself to Clark's standards.
I want to cram this into my mouth and eat it, that's how delicious the irony sounds.

I want to cry tears that this isn't the movie we're getting.
 
I want to cram this into my mouth and eat it, that's how delicious the irony sounds.

I want to cry tears that this isn't the movie we're getting.
Look, just because the movie will end with like 16 different people punching out Lex Fakethor's cave troll doesn't mean we won't see some healthy exploration of the philosophical clash between the titular characters along the way.
 
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