Azur Lane - Gaming Thread

Light Cruisers: Jack of All Trades


Light cruisers are, for lack of a better term, your general-purpose warship. They tend to have Light Armor, are quick and have good Evasion, and while their HP is not as high as the best heavy and large cruisers, the tougher light cruisers are actually fairly sturdy. While heavy cruisers are dedicated to the use of big guns to deal with their enemies, light cruisers (when they have them) actually have useful torpedoes, they tend to have better AA stats, and they can use depth charges against enemy submarines. Like heavy cruisers, there are MGM+1 and torpedo versions, but there are also a number of ships capable of using DD guns as their primary armament, rather than as secondaries - and due to the way Azur Lane plays, equipping DD guns as primary armaments over CL guns tends to increase a ship's actual damage output, with few-to-no disadvantages.

MGM+1 light cruisers follow the heavy cruiser model: a CL gun that fires twice per reload cycle with reasonably high Efficiency, and a DD secondary gun that has much worse efficiency. Unlike with heavy cruisers, however, I find that these are not as frequently superior to torpedo cruisers, because torpedo light cruisers actually have decent torpedo stats. For example, comparing Cleveland to Sheffield, the former has (assuming 6"/47 Mk 17 DP Prototype) 197 FP and 130% Efficiency, for a base damage of ~67 damage per shell, while Sheffield's 188 FP and 150% Efficiency yields ~75 damage per shell. As with heavy cruisers, Cleveland's MGM+1 means she deals significantly more damage with her guns, but Sheffield's 299 Torpedo and 150% Efficiency means that even with a 533mm Quad Torpedo Mount Mk IX, she has a base damage of ~1094, and using the Quad 610mms pushes that damage up by nearly three hundred points. Actually good torpedo stats combined with the reduced damage output of gun-based light cruisers makes torpedo light cruisers more relatively useful.

Most DD-gun light cruisers are also torpedo cruisers; San Juan, as an example, has a single main gun mount with 131 FP and 105% Efficiency. With the Single 138.6 (1929), she deals ~46 damage per shell - with the 6"/47, about 43 damage per shell, and the 138.6 fires faster. Even in the cases where per-shell damage is in favor of the CL gun - which can be a matter of just differences in armor modifiers - the rate of fire difference and the lack of meaningful range discrepancies for the vanguard mean it's still almost always going to be more beneficial to get the overall damage increase instead of technical per-hit increase. Destroyer guns also have much less restrictive firing arcs - only a single surface-ship-equippable DD gun has a firing arc of under 200°, while just one CL gun has a 360° arc and the next most permissive has a 130° arc.

Light cruisers have the most impressive AA stats, with both very high AA in general and the most impressive AA Efficiencies in the game, although the latter is very ship-dependent. Some light cruisers mount multiple AA guns, which is also an effective boost to your fleet - AA not only affects the amount of damage reduction an individual ship receives when attacked by aircraft, but also (when a ship actually equips an AA gun) contributes to the damage inflicted on aircraft that wander into the no-fly zone. Combined with their decent HP and Evasion, their high AA makes them relatively quite survivable in plane-heavy content.

Light cruisers are also capable of ASW combat - searching for and attacking submerged submarines. (Light carriers are capable of ASW as well, although I believe they need to equip ASW gear in order to actually do anything.) The ASW stat affects sonar range - how far away submarines can be detected - and light cruisers have a ghost depth charge launcher to allow them to attack submarines even without any ASW-specific gear equipped. They do benefit greatly from them if equipped, although most content doesn't feature submarines heavily enough to make it necessary.


I will admit to quite a bit of bias - I like light cruisers more than I do the other vanguard ship types. And while I admit that specialization will beat generalization when that specialty is applicable, I also have a strong preference for general-purpose options. And I both dislike how sluggish most of the heavy cruisers I do actually like feel and am uncomfortable with the zippiness of a lot of destroyers. So light cruisers combine good handling with effective damage output and reasonable survivability. And one of the big advantages of their balanced stat spread and the way Azur Lane plays is that while I can min-max them for certain extremes and still be reasonably effective, I can also just give them a solid general-purpose equipment setup and play the game.
 
Light cruisers are, for lack of a better term, your general-purpose warship.
That's a bit misleading. The class has characters who can do each vanguard role well, but so far as I can see the majority of individual CLs do at most two things well. For example, Noshiro can dodge-tank and has good torpedoes, but her AA and gunnery aren't spectacular, and her ASW is kind of bad. San Diego (retrofit) is either the best or second best AA ship in the game and has good ASW, but her surface DPS is merely adequate and her durability is mediocre.

There are some exceptions, but not a whole lot of them. Seattle drops torpedoes and support to be good or solid at everything else relative to other CLs, Reisalin Stout is fairly good at basically everything (though her support is limited to other Atelier Ryza colab characters), Plymouth gets to be spectacular at shelling-dps (laughs in MGM+2) and have good survivability and torpedoes because UR/DRs are bullshit, and there are probably a few others who are fairly good at three or more things that I haven't had the time to dig up.

Even in the cases where per-shell damage is in favor of the CL gun - which can be a matter of just differences in armor modifiers - the rate of fire difference and the lack of meaningful range discrepancies for the vanguard mean it's still almost always going to be more beneficial to get the overall damage increase instead of technical per-hit increase.
In addition to this, the higher fire rate of DD guns allows faster procs on "All-Out Assault" type skills, which typically gives a further DPS advantage to using DD guns. AFAIK the only exception is Emden's second weapon slot; using a CL gun in that slot makes her first skill more offensive while using a DD gun makes the skill more defensive.

Some light cruisers Seattle, Curacoa, and Curlew, can mount multiple AA guns...
FTFY. I had to crawl through the wiki to figure out who other than Seattle could mount multiple AA guns, though it's my fault for not thinking to check the C-class first. The C-class have pretty low AA-gun efficiencies and low AA stats, so I'm not sure if they're actually capable of being AA caries despite having two AA gun slots. Seattle's secondary slot also has low efficiency, so the general advice I've heard is to use that slot for boosting her stats rather than for direct damage.

when a ship actually equips an AA gun
I've heard that nearly all ships have a "ghost" AA gun that they'll use if not equipped with one, but ghost weapons are generally terrible so you should equip gear in every weapon slot. I believe the exceptions are the characters from the High Seas Fleet event, who don't have ghost AA guns because those didn't really exist back in WWI.

Edit: Why do I even bother, you appear to be completely uninterested in having any discussion.
 
Last edited:
In the hopes of being a less negative poster, I'll share my FrostFall EX teams. I made some tweaks today and eked out another 100-ish points, which jumped me from 99th up to 75th on my server (EN - Washington).
Note: yes I'm kind of broke in-game and the screen shots all show that. Spamming gear upgrades & cognition research projects does that. I'm also still pulling for one of the event ships.
Oops, I didn't see Ulrich launching herself out of frame when I took this screencap. She's the missing main fleet member. Anyway, team comp is fairly straightforward, it's a collection of some of my best Iron Blood ships. Why? Well originally I was using Bismarck as the flagship to buff Ulrich, who gets bonuses against light armor with HE guns. I recently swapped Bismarck for Fredrich and haven't taken the time to rework the rest of the team.

Just pretend that's USS Alaska, not Kronshtadt. Jokes aside, this team is fairly straightforward, stack buffs on the carriers. Independence's accelerated first strike helps clear the second wave of mobs to help get a faster clear time and she buffs Enterprise and Yorktown II, who I think do most of the boss-killing. Montpelier is there to improve Independence's special airstrike and to buff the vanguard's damage, though I'll have to see if swapping her for Seattle does better.

This fleet originally had a plan behind it, burn motherfuck burn. That plan mostly fell apart as I swapped characters around, but there's still bits of it left. I think Repulse Meta might count as Repulse for the purpose of Indomitable's skill. She also gets bonuses against light armor, so I've kept using her even though I can't confirm if she works with Indomitable. Yuudachi's here instead of in the Sakura fleet because (a) she gets bonuses against burning enemies and (b) there's not room for a second DD in the Sakura fleet. Originally this team had Illustrious instead of Implacable, but for the run before this I had to use Illustrious in my fifth fleet to help keep the vanguard alive so Implacable ended up here instead.

Not a lot to explain, it's Nagato and the two best IJN carriers in the back. The vanguard is mostly about staying alive, with Shimakaze in the middle slot to bring some serious torpedo damage. If I had Kazagumo anywhere near max level I might try using her instead of Shimakaze, but I don't even have her at max limit break plus Shimakaze helps clear the first wave of mobs. This was my lowest scoring fleet of the run, so there's definitely room for improvement. Leveling up Haku should help, though I might also try swapping Nagato from HE to AP guns or even swapping out Nagato for Implacable to help Shinano and Haku's torpedoes actually hit.

And last, but certainly not least:
You can probably figure out what the strategy here is just by looking at the team, battleship go BOOM! Well actually there's a bit more to it; Agir, New Jersey, and Musashi all have unique armor breaks that stack with each other and the base armor break from BB grade AP shells, AFAIK. Add in Vanguard & Helena's damage amps and they can produce some ludicrous damage numbers. I think they killed Omitter in under 60s, which was quite impressive. While it's tempting to drop Anchorage in favor of someone who'd buff the backline's damage even more, I'm honestly not sure who that would be. I don't have Plymouth anywhere near max and the survivability Anchorage gives to the whole vanguard with her shields really helps keep Helena alive.

Actually finally, here's proof of my score and rank:
I didn't bother scrolling down to my exact location in the ladder because it shows my rank & score at the bottom.

I realized I forgot to screenshot my sub fleet, which I manually called in so they could use their entry salvos on the bosses. The sub fleet is Archerfish, Albacore, & Nautilus. Archerfish was the first good sub I got, so I've ended up sticking with a USN sub fleet. I'm not even sure whether I have three top-tier KMS subs or not, and I definitely haven't gotten around to maxing out all the KMS subs I do have.
 
Last edited:
Destroyers: Destroying Torpedo Boats, Cruisers, Battleships ...


In some ways, destroyers are smaller and more focused light cruisers. They have light armor, high speed, excellent torpedoes, great ASW, and great Evasion. Firepower, AA, and HP are all on the low end - in particular, every current destroyer has a base HP under 3000. Destroyers really do not want to be hit, especially by HE shells with their high Light Armor modifiers. While destroyers are quite fragile, however, they are very strong offensively. They have a higher lower bound for ASW than light cruisers, giving them higher sonar range and better depth charge damage. Against surface targets, destroyers - like heavy cruisers - separate into gunboats and torpedo boats.

While their torpedo stats are exceptionally high, destroyer torpedo Efficiency actually trends a little lower than that of cruisers - even Shimakaze 'only' has 170% Efficiency to go along with her 609 Torpedo. This doesn't particularly matter, as a 15% Efficiency difference doesn't make up for a 240-point (or higher ...) stat difference: equipped with Quad 610mms, Shigure (DD) has a base damage of 2518 and Kinu (CL) has a base damage of 1865. And unlike heavy cruisers, torpedo destroyers are quick enough to get into position to use their torpedoes effectively. Torpedo destroyers have extremely heavy burst damage, and Heavy Armor enemies in particular will see very high damage numbers.

Gunboats, on the other hand, can have incredibly high main gun Efficiency and Firepower: Z23 has 175% Efficiency and 172 FP, while Tashkent has 165% Efficiency and 182 FP. Gunboat destroyers can outpace light cruisers in a damage race: Z23, with the 138.6 (1929), does 117 base damage per shell, and it has a Reload half that of the 6"/47 (with which Sheffield would be doing ~75 per shell). Gunboat destroyers are also more likely to be on the large size, with more HP and generally less Evasion.

There is also a destroyer subtype, the Guided Missile Destroyer (DDG). Initially gunboat destroyers, these (currently) two Dragon Empery destroyers have MGM +1 with high Firepower and fast-moving missiles that are more effective against Light Armor instead of Heavy Armor. They can be used in either the Vanguard or the Main Fleet, but are generally more effective in the vanguard. They have an on-map missile strike that can be used to reduce the HP of enemy fleets in a 3x3 grid by (I believe) 10%, that stacks with pre-battle Meowfficer bombardments and submarine Hunting strikes, but does not affect enemy Bosses. They are very strong, particularly against enemy fleets and Light Armor bosses.

Of the two main types of destroyers, I prefer gunboats - they're tougher, so better able to weather the hits that you will take, and they typically aren't so fast that I get annoyed trying to control them. They also don't feel as cripplingly specialized: gunboats have decent torpedoes usually, but torpedo boats often have terrible guns, with both FP and Efficiency being awful. So a gunboat's torpedoes will usually perform well enough, but a torpedo boat's gun often does so little damage that simply picking the fastest-firing one to trigger frequent All-Out Assaults might be the better choice. Gunboats, like light cruisers, can be used as generalist ships, while torpedo boats have so much of their damage potential in their torpedoes that either they have to be used only against specific enemies (Elite fleets, for example) or shepherded along by other vanguards.


... And I think that's it for classes. I'm going to write up something about Skills, as I've said, but it's ... I'm not sure how it's going to go. Skills are extremely important, and can have a lot more to say about whether or not a given ship is 'good enough' or 'amazing' (see: Gangut, particularly in comparison to Sevastopol). But because they're so important to how good a given ship is, and they can be so varied, going really in-depth into the skills basically means talking about a lot of fairly unique abilities and the ship's stats and how they fit into a given fleet. And because of the many ways to run fleets, and how forgiving a lot of the content is, I'm not sure it's worth the time and effort required.

I might go a bit more into the factions, their good points and bad points, their standout ships and how well they actually work as mono-faction fleets. Considering that I still don't have a firm grasp on several of the factions, however, at least right now it's something I'm only considering and not actually planning out.
 
So, Skills. Like I've said at least once, Skills are really important for figuring out how to use some ships, and even for determining if a given ship is going to be useful to you or not. And before I actually get into the first part of this post, I'm going to clarify something:

Some Skills are bad.

I'm not even talking about something like U-1206's Skill that reduces her Oxygen, which is actively detrimental to typical submarine operation. There are Skills that effectively do nothing, or have such low activation rates that you're generally using that ship in spite of their Skill, rather than because it's actually helpful. Take, for example, Quick Reload, which at its highest level has a 60% chance to give the ship 40% more Reload for ten seconds, which sounds great. Except that if we take Mutsuki, who has a native Reload of 219, and give her the 610 Quintuples, she reloads them in ~22.6 seconds. If she activates Quick Reload, then for ten seconds, she reloads them in about twenty seconds. Which certainly is an improvement, but it's an incredibly niche one that frankly isn't likely to be important, particularly since the activation rate isn't particularly reliable.

Shield Skills are like Quick Reload, and most of them are pretty bad. In theory, they should be good: anything that eliminates incoming damage instead of simply mitigating it like Damage Reduction ought to be pretty handy. And Shield Skills do stop incoming damage. Unfortunately, due to the way combat works in Azur Lane, most of them just aren't particularly effective.

To clarify, when I say 'Shield' Skills, I am specifically referring to Skills that generate blue hexagonal shields around a ship, and I am not referring to 'barrier' skills that are indicated by a glimmering effect on the ship in question. Illustrious has a barrier; Prinz Eugen has a Shield. Barriers typically function more effectively than Shields, and while they may not be all equally useful, they don't have the problems that Shields do. To clarify further, the Skills I am talking about include Skills on Amagi-chan, Roon and Idol Roon, Z23, Emden, Ingraham, Maillé Brézé, Tallinn, Norfolk, Weser, Elbe, Renown META, Admiral Hipper and Idol AH, Prinz Heinrich, Scharnhorst META, Indianapolis, Repulse META, Mainz, Ticonderoga, Prinz Eugen and Little Prinz Eugen, Zara, Blücher, and Trento META.

Shields are problematic because they function in a way that is actively hampered by Azur Lane's gameplay. They create barrier, either fixed to a position in front of the protected ship or rotating around her, block a certain number of shots before collapsing, only block direct-fire/low-caliber shots, and last for a short period of time. All of which are fine on their own, but rotating shields are inherently more difficult to use to block shots because they're harder to get into position, the number of shots any given shields blocks is low while the number of incoming shots is high, and most shields only last a handful of seconds. Prinz Eugen, for example, spawns three rotating shields that block up to twelve shots each and only last ten seconds. A maximum of thirty-six blocked shots every twenty seconds, some of which may even have been avoided by the player but were 'blocked' anyway because the shields rotate - and she doesn't even have guaranteed activation.

Azur Lane is a game filled with bullets - even in the first few stages, where there are only a handful of enemy ships on-screen at a time, it's possible to have more enemy shots on screen than a shield can block, and later stages can easily have enough bullets on-screen to overwhelm multiple Shields. The short duration means that, especially if they rotate, it's possible to simply not have enough time for a Shield to block shots usefully - it may appear as an enemy wave is just being defeated, or when an Airstrike is just about to clear all enemy attacks. And, frankly, the direct shots are usually the weakest enemy attacks the need to be dealt with, being problems mainly due to sheer numbers and not because any particular shot is doing significant damage compared to torpedoes or large-caliber shells.

Some of the Shields above have secondary effects - Emden, Weser, Elbe, Mainz, Tallinn. If and when the Shields they deploy are broken, it triggers a barrage or an auxiliary effect (Elbe gains a damage buff); Weser's secondary effect buffs the receiving ship and heals Weser if the protected ship is an Iron Blood ship. Several other ships have Skills where the Shield is included, but not the sole mechanism: Ingraham, for example, gets a Barrage, the Shield, a Heal, and a fleet AA buff all on the same Skill, and the parts are not connected to each other. Prinz Eugen, if she doesn't have her Auxiliary Module, has only her (again, unreliable) Shield and nothing else! Considering how much of an Iron Blood staple shields are - of the twenty-five ships in the list above, thirteen are Iron Blood ships and another is an Iron Blood ship class; Iron Blood doesn't even have seventy ships yet - and how Eugen and Z23 in particular are 'flagships' of the game, the fact that they are so bad is really quite frustrating.

And like ... yeah. There are nearly seven hundred ships in the game (counting retrofits, I believe) - more than that if you count the Collaboration ships - so there are obviously going to be some ships who just do not measure up. And this is primarily an Iron Blood issue: wile most of the factions have ships to spare, of the sixty-eight Iron Blood ships in the game, twelve are U-boats. Admittedly, most of the Iron Blood ships do have other Skills to make up for the lackluster value of Shields, but Admiral Hipper and Prinz Eugen in particular don't even have good damage output to make them worth using, especially if the latter doesn't have her Augment Module.

Meh. I just like the idea of the 'tough/tanky' faction actually having durable shields instead of just having raw bulk, especially since the latter really isn't viable in Azur Lane. I don't expect Shields to get any revisions, or the ships saddled with them to get any compensating buffs or improvements. This has mostly just been me bitching about Shields, I guess.
 
I think I won't do a general Skill overview; it's at least on long hold, if not just axed entirely. So, more comprehensive faction overviews it is. Starting with Iron Blood, both because I'm already very familiar with their ships and because they have the smallest number of ships. I'm not sure if I'll do the smaller factions; I'm leaning toward not, but it'll probably depend on how I feel after doing the big four.

Iron Blood - Of Sharks and Dragons


Iron Blood is a very bulky faction. While not necessarily having the best values in each ship class (especially with Research Creep), they tend toward higher HP, and are comparatively slower and have lower Evasion.

Iron Blood destroyers are very invested in the gunboat line, with even their low-Firepower ships having pretty good Efficiency and usually the Piercing Shells skill to increase damage dealt with AP guns. Moreover, Z1 provides a massive 40% buff to the Firepower and Evasion of all Z-class destroyers, which also helps with their bad-by-DD-standards Evasion. They have fairly good torpedoes, with pretty high stats and okay-to-great Efficiency. Standout ships are, of course, Z1 and Z23; the former has an amazing boost to Iron Blood destroyers and is the best IB torpedo boat, while the latter is a powerful gunboat. Z46, the only inherently SR destroyer, is a bit more general-purpose, with modest FP (and high Efficiency) and high Torpedo (and low Efficiency), with a solid AA stat and Efficiency.

Also of note is the fact that the 1936A class - Z23 and her sisters - are capable of using light cruiser guns. As was mentioned before, it is almost always a bad idea to actually equip them with one, and even in cases where it might not be a bad idea, it's likely that a destroyer gun wouldn't be of much less use, if any. (For anyone wondering, I'm thinking of cases where you might want to keep your ships farther back than normal for some reason, but CL guns only have a max range of 70 units, and there is a destroyer gun with that range anyway.)

Iron Blood light cruisers are all torpedo cruisers, with the addition that Mainz has MGM +1 as well as (very poor) torpedoes. Mainz is also one of the best light cruisers in the game, with extremely high HP, Medium Armor, and great Skills; being a PR 3 ship, she is also pretty accessible, especially compared to Event-locked ships or Plymouth. Leipzig has very powerful Torpedoes and provides a general buff to the offensive stats of all cruisers, as well as increasing the Speed of the Vanguard and reducing ramming damage taken; her sister Nürnberg buffs all Iron Blood ships' AA stats and - probably more importantly - boosts the experience gain of submarines. The K-class sisters are (by now) fairly below average as far as light cruisers go; Köln has a unique ASW gear, but it's not particularly powerful and in the situations where it would be useful, you're probably better off using a different ship.

Emden and Elbing are unique in that they have no default AA equipment; Elbing can be equipped with an AA gun to help contribute to the fleet AA bubble, but Emden can not. Emden is also one of the few places where a light cruiser gun can be preferred to a destroyer gun: her second weapon slot can hold either, but with a CL gun, her gun Efficiencies are increased and she gains a strong barrage with a Slowing effect, while a DD gun creates a shield that retaliates with a vampiric barrage if broken.

Iron Blood heavy cruisers are also all torpedo cruisers, with another pair of caveats: Roon (and her Idol version) is, like Mainz, MGM +1 with torpedoes, and Yorck (like Emden) has two gun slots but no AA slot. Roon is very accessible, and while her bulk is of limited value, she is still very powerful offensively, particularly against Sirens; her Reload buff, when using the Triple 203mm (SK C/34 Prototype), decreases her reload time by less than a second when it's fully stacked, from 6.25 to 5.55 seconds. Prinz Eugen, once you have her Augment Module, becomes fairly useful thanks to being able to Armor Break any target, but with only a single Shield Skill and poor offensive capabilities, she's not good for much except soaking damage. The Deutschlands, on the other hand, have fairly low HP by IB standards, but their high Firepower, decent Efficiency, ability to equip a bombardment gun, and Skill that shreds DDs and CLs, make them very formidable.

The P-class are Deutschlands with even better stats. Similar Firepower, HP on par with Roon, even more Efficiency, same bombardment gun option, and they get a special ghost secondary. They are missing the anti-DD/-CL Skill, but they are much better general-use ships. Blücher, the third Admiral Hipper, is quite different from her sisters, with low HP but lots of Firepower and gun Efficiency, and Skills that increase ... basically everything. She buffs her FP, Crit Rate, Speed, Evasion Rate, has a timed Barrage, absorbs damage from the rest of the Vanguard, gains a special ghost secondary, has Shields, and - when at less than 50% HP - reduces her damage taken and increases her damage dealt.


Building an Iron Blood Vanguard


It depends on what you want the fleet to do, obviously. An all-destroyer vanguard is possible, but it's going to have some survivability issues even with Z1, and why wouldn't you use Z1? Just heavy cruisers might run into some issues with AA and submarines, although the former can be mitigated and the latter are usually not a significant threat.

If you're building an IB destroyer fleet, Z1 is almost mandatory: that Firepower and Evasion buff is just too good to pass up unless you're doing something where you're already more than strong enough (like doing ASW in low-tier worlds or something). Additionally, her retrofit Skill can decrease the damage the Vanguard takes from aircraft, which is particularly useful if you're just using destroyers. Similarly, while Z23 isn't required, her sheer firepower advantage over other destroyers and her larger health pool (particularly if you have her Augment Module, which gives her 8% Damage Reduction and an additional 10% Main Gun Efficiency) make her extremely powerful. The third destroyer, then, is something of a wild card. Z46 is traditionally the third destroyer, as she has high gun Efficiency and HP. Z24 and Z28 are also good choices: Z24 has a damage buff against enemy DDs and CLs, and if another Z-Class ship falls to less than 30% HP, that ship gets 30% Damage Reduction and Z24 buffs her own Firepower, Torpedo, and Reload; Z28, on the other hand, passively buffs Firepower, Accuracy, and AA for all Z-class ships, and she also buffs her own FP, TRP, and ASW if she sorties with another Z-class destroyer.

An Iron Blood cruiser fleet is strongly recommended to have Leipzig or Emden; I'm not sure if both in the same fleet is going to be as useful as having another ship. Emden is going to be more useful if your Main Fleet consists of IB battleships or battlecruisers, however, while Leipzig only buffs cruisers. Mainz and Roon are very powerful, particularly in combination with either of the light cruisers. Ägir, of course, is a top star - although like Emden, she is more useful to a Main Fleet that has big guns rather than one with carriers.

Personally, I'm fond of Ägir/Emden/Mainz, especially in a Bismarck fleet: Bismarck increases the Crit Rate for IB main guns, and Mainz buffs her own Crit Damage; Emden buffs all IB ships' Firepower, and Ägir causes Armor Break (and increases her own Crit Rate as well). Both Roon and her Idol form can be sortied in the same fleet, and then buffed by Leipzig, or serve as tanks to support Blücher. The P-class can be sortied together (again, likely with Emden or Leipzig buffing), or separated to provide an offensive punch or tank for a lighter fleet.

The core premises don't even require the Event-locked ships: Z23 is a starter, and drops in the campaign; Z1 drops in several campaign maps as well; Leipzig is a reward for max-limit-breaking the K-class sisters, who all drop in the campaign; Roon and Mainz are PR Research ships and can be upgraded with coins, while Ägir is a DR Research ship who has to be upgraded the hard way; Idol Roon is available in the Core Exchange; Z28 is in the Merit Shop, and Z46 is one of the DD selections from the Medal Shop. The Deutschlands can't quite replace the P-class ships, and Emden isn't replaceable in the Iron Blood lineup (if at all), but it's still possible to create very effective Vanguards without using Event-locked ships.



As far as aircraft carriers go, Iron Blood is not exactly spoiled for choice. They have two light carriers, and four fleet carriers. Fortunately, three of the fleet carriers are good.

Elbe and Weser have the problem that they're Light Aircraft Carriers with CVL loadouts. They have low Aviation and only six planes, three of which are Fighters, so they don't have much ability to deal damage to enemy ships, although they do both have potential special airstrikes that can go off. They also both have Shield skills, although Elbe's at least is tied to a damage buff for herself. Elbe is also noteworthy for having an extremely high Fighter Efficiency of 145%, which can be translated to AA ability or anti-surface damage with either the F6F HVAR or the Bf 109G. Iron Blood Fighters (109G aside, which has almost no AA capability) are incredible AA platforms, and the Me-155A is incredibly quick to reload, but neither the 155A nor the FW 190 A-5 have any anti-surface capability. Zeppy is a full Aircraft Carrier who can trade her third slot (two Dive Bombers) for a light cruiser gun; either way, its Efficiency isn't very good. She has a Firepower-based timed barrage that changes properties if she is holding a gun, and being able to shoot at enemies who get past the vanguard is an advantage that most carriers lack. Considering her comparatively low Aviation stat, it's probably more beneficial to have her carry around the gun.

Graf Zeppelin grants Damage Reduction to all Iron Blood ships and, if she has at least one Iron Blood plane, boosts all her Efficiencies by 30%. That brings her up to 150/160/160 Efficiencies for Fighter/Dive Bomber/Dive-or-Torpedo Bomber, and makes her an incredibly dangerous striker. Due to the aforementioned nature of IB Fighters and the relatively poor performance of IB Dive Bombers, it's probably best to use the Ju-87 D4 Torpedo Bomber to activate the buff, particularly as IB torpedoes converge, which makes their point damage generally superior to parallel torpedo bombers. Peter Strasser is only slightly off from her sister in terms of stats, but has 10% more Efficiency for her Torpedo Bombers, has a special Airstrike, Slows all enemies with a chance to Stop them temporarily, and can reduce the reload time of IB carriers' first three airstrikes. The Slow isn't particularly powerful, and the Stop is incredibly unreliable, so her biggest advantage lies in her extra airstrike, followed by not needing IB planes to buff herself. August von Parseval has a weird setup; like the Zeppelin sisters, she has a 2/3/3/ plane loadout, but her Efficiencies are 140/110/140; while this is likely to be an attempt at balancing her so she doesn't obliterate lighter ships - she has a 10% buff to her Fighter Efficiency if she uses an IB plane, she has a special airstrike that increases the damage Light Armor and Medium Armor enemies take from airstrikes, she has a 20% damage buff against light and heavy cruisers, she has a guaranteed Stop, and the Bf 109G is very good at dealing with Medium Armor targets - it probably wouldn't have changed much if she had a 3/2/3 loadout instead.

Iron Blood battlecruisers are a little on the gimmicky side. Scharnhorst and Gneisenau are fairly weak ships, with poor base FP and only a single 150% Secondary, but they have a Torpedo stat, and a Skill that fires three Torpedoes; they are also the only IB battlecruisers that are Medium Armor; every other IB BC has Heavy Armor. Odin has comparatively low HP, less than 7300, but she also has 20% Damage Reduction. She also has Torpedo Secondaries, and high enough Stat Efficiency to do more damage with them than some Heavy Cruisers (probably most, but I'm not willing to do the math on it right now); she also has two sets of Ghost secondaries, and one of her Skills moves her forward of the Flagship position, so she can fire those secondaries significantly farther than other Main Fleet ships. She also has a timed barrage and submarine detection; the latter in particular also reduces the damage the Vanguard takes from torpedoes, and can (probably still) be used outside of an IB fleet to make Helena almost immune to torpedoes. (She's also, I believe, the Iron Blood BC/BB with the best AA stats at 345 and 110% Efficiency; she's actually pretty high up as far as BC/BB AA goes.) Odin is a solid ship; her Firepower is low (base of 369) and she doesn't have a secondary gun slot to boost it, but her secondaries will almost always have something to shoot at and she's actually quite hard to kill.

Prinz Rupprecht, on the other hand, has high HP with over 8600, and her own extra-long-range special secondaries on top of her actual Secondary Gun Mount. Those special secondaries trigger torpedo barrages every five times they fire, and buff her FP and TRP the eighth time they fire. She has positional Damage Reduction: if Prinz Rupprecht is the flagship, she gets 15% Damage Reduction; if she's not, then whoever is in the spot above the Flagship gets 8% Damage Reduction. While her base FP is fairly low (379), when the buff kicks in she actually becomes fairly competitive, although she still can't match BBs that have their own FP buff.

Brünhilde is, like Scharnhorst and Gneisenau, quite conventional: she has her torpedoes that are fired as part of her Skill, and a special attack that noticeably slows the target. She can increase the Accuracy of all BB/BC/BBVs in the Main Fleet, and she has a particular advantage against Light Armor enemies, dealing extra damage against them if she has IB gear equipped.

Seydlitz and Lützow have no inherent AA guns, and while they can equip them - Lützow even has enough Efficiency to make them fairly worthwhile - it's probably a better decision to maximize their Firepower by giving them another DD gun. Lützow has a buff to her Main Gun damage, a stacking firepower buff, and a damage buff against BBs and BCs, and a Debuff applied to enemies hit when she uses an AP or SAP Main Gun. AA gun and Torpedo barrage aside, Lützow, like Brünhilde, is fairly ungimmicky. Seydlitz, on the other hand, starts with a Reload buff for her first Main Gun Salvo that is dependent on how much HP she has left, ranging from a 20% to an 80% reduction. She also absorbs and reduces a significant amount of damage that would hit your other IB Main Fleet ships, which is counterproductive to the rest of her kit. She also has a zombie Skill, and a Damage Slider: when she has more HP, she deals more damage, and when she has less HP, she takes less damage, up to 20% each way. She also has a buff to a select few ships: if she is not the flagship, and a ship that has a 'Marvels of History' Skill is the flagship, then that ship gains the same First Shot Reload Buff effect that Seydlitz has. Currently, the only ships able to make use of this are Lützow and the battleship Thüringen.

Iron Blood's pure battleships are defined mostly by very high HP (... and also, apparently, by being lousy shots), although Friedrich der Große for a long time had the highest Firepower in the game as well as the most HP; she has since been dethroned. She is still an extremely powerful battleship, and her only real competitors are Event-locked, making her an almost-accessible option for brute-forcing content. She has a straight 20% buff to Firepower and 20% Damage Reduction when maxed, a defensive barrage and an on-fire barrage, and a swapping Skill: alternating salvos either increase her Reload and damage dealt or her Crit Rate and Crit Damage. If she's somehow beaten down to under 30% HP, she also gets a buff to her Secondary Guns, increasing their Shell Velocity and Efficiency.

Ulrich von Hutten is currently the only gacha UR in the Iron Blood roster. Her stats are similar to FdG's, and while she is actually better in a few, Luck is the only one likely to make an actual difference in her favor (50 vs FdG's 25 after Fate Simulation). She has an on-fire barrage that slows the enemy a little for a few seconds; I've found it seems to mostly serve to keep the enemy from dodging her follow-up shots in the salvo rather than being of much use assisting other ships in the fleet. She also has a defensive barrage. She's probably most well-known for her ridiculous rate of fire: when not the Flagship, she has a permanent 50% cooldown reduction for her main gun, which generally allows her to be firing within ten seconds of the last salvo. She does take a hefty reduction in damage dealt, but between the facts that it's a 45% reduction and that it's only her Main Gun damage that are affected, she actually comes out ahead in DPS. Unless she has an Out-of-Ammo debuff, anyway, in which case you'll generally want her in the Flagship spot with her normal Reload and only the OoA damage debuff. She also provides benefits to friendly fleets for the first five battles they take part in: Iron Blood ships get a slight amount of Damage Reduction and a slight increase to their Critical Damage, and the fleet gets six defensive barrages per battle.

Bismarck is the Flagship of Iron Blood, increasing the Crit Rate of Main Guns, Torpedoes, and Aircraft used by Iron Blood ships, as well as IB ships' Reload. While not as continuously useful as raw stat buffs to Firepower or Aviation, it's still very useful, particularly for Research ships that have low (or no) Luck. That Skill also gives Tirpitz a 40% damage buff when she's sortied with Bismarck. When she's sortied as the flagship of a fleet, Bismarck also gains an on-fire barrage and increases the damage of Iron Blood carriers. Finally, the first volley of every salvo she fires is guaranteed to Crit, and if she equips light cruiser guns, their range is increased to 90 (from a maximum of 70), but their damage is reduced by 35%. Most of her Skills I have no problem with, but the last bit that affects her secondaries is a bit odd to me, since she already only has two secondary mounts and they only have 180% Efficiency. It makes her secondaries useful for poking at ships that are proving difficult for your Vanguard to disable, but it actually makes her worse at anything that actually gets close ... and since they're her secondaries, I'm pretty sure they don't even get the Crit Rate buff.

Tirpitz has a bit less HP than her sister, but she actually has 200% Efficiency on her secondaries - and she has Skill-based Torpedoes as well. Her other Skill provides her with a 30% damage buff when sortied with no other battleships or battlecruisers. Then she got an Augment Module that changed her Skill to, "When there are no non-Iron Blood BBs or BCs in your Main Fleet," and suddenly sortieing her with Bismarck gives her a +70% damage buff. Even with a fairly conservative 428 base Firepower and 130% Main Gun Efficiency, she starts doing quite a lot of damage when she fires (although to be clear, the damage buff she gets are general damage buffs, not just to her Main Gun). Unfortunately, that's ... really all there is to her.

Finally, there's Thüringen. Like the other High Seas Fleet ships - Emden, Elbing, Yorck, Seydlitz, and Lützow - Thüringen has no default AA gun. She can be equipped with one, but as with Seydlitz, she just doesn't have the stat or Efficiency to make it worthwhile, and is almost certainly better off with a spare DD gun boosting her FP. She has two unreliable Skills: a chance for her Secondary Gun (CL/DD, not the one that's AA/DD) to fire again after it shoots, with a ten second cooldown, and a chance to fire a barrage when her Main Guns finish reloading; enemies hit by the AP shells of that barrage have reduced Evasion and take more damage from Iron Blood ships for ten seconds.



Building an Iron Blood Main Fleet - and then putting it all together


The first question is how many aircraft carriers you're going to use. Three carriers? Use all three fleet carriers. Two carriers? Preferably use Zeppelin and August with Bismarck in the middle buffing them; Peter isn't bad, but her Slow/Stop is less effective than August's. If you're only using a single carrier, I'm not sure I would; Graf Zeppelin gives some Damage Reduction and can be used with, say, Odin or Prinz Rupprecht to help protect someone squishy, but I'm not sure anyone in the IB roster qualifies, not even Thüringen and her measly 6400 HP (why would you be running her in a fleet not dedicated to trying to make use of her ability?); if you're not using GZ for damage reduction and raw Efficiency, then you might use AvP with Odin/Prinz Rupprecht/FdG as part of an anti-Siren Research-only fleet. You're still probably best off with either 3 or 2+Bismarck, though.

Friedrich der Große and Ulrich von Hutten can (and should) be used just about everywhere; they have raw power that even buffed Tirpitz can't really match, and UvH benefits friendly fleets as well. Bismarck would be a useful third ship here, as she provides a noticeable buff to Crit Rate that both ships would appreciate - UvH fires a lot and has boosted Crit Damage, and when her Skill is buffing her Crit Rate (and she's packing the Super-Heavy Shell), FdG would be looking at a +48% chance to Crit. Brünhilde would fit well with them, less for her Slow and more for her Accuracy buff: it is fairly minor, and various gears do improve it better than her Skill does, but it's still more accuracy, and particularly with FdG you want as many of your shots to hit as possible. Odin or Prinz Rupprecht, with their increased secondary armaments, can also benefit FdG/UvH by making it more likely for their defensive barrages to defeat anything that actually does get close.

Prinz Rupprecht makes for quite a tanky flagship, and the central position is the most advantageous for her torpedo barrages. Directly synergistic support for her is somewhat lacking, however; Bismarck provides some extra Crits, especially since Rupprecht currently has 0 Luck, and Brünhilde can buff her Accuracy somewhat.

As for full Iron Blood fleets?

Ägir is an exceptional Vanguard tank, suitable for pretty much anything, and her Skills benefit both Main Fleet styles (although she's a bit more suited to a gun line). Emden and Leipzig both provide buffs to her, although I don't put them both in the same fleet; I've found that makes the Vanguard a little too brittle, although it could just be confirmation bias. Instead, I prefer to put Mainz as the third ship to Ägir and Emden. The Main Fleet for those three is FdG, UvH, and Bismarck. Emden boosts everyone's firepower, Bismarck improves Crit Rates, Ägir slows and weakens the defenses of enemies. I use Mainz as my third ship because she's a bit faster than the other (heavy cruiser) options, and Magedeburg has similar durability problems as Leipzig. (This is actually the fleet I usually use for META fights.)

For a carrier fleet, my vanguard is typically Roon, Leipzig/Magdeburg, and Idol Roon/P-class. Emden doesn't buff carriers, since they don't use firepower. Ägir could be used to help them with the Slow, but they already have a Stop effect from August, and the Armor Break she provides helps the battleships more. That leaves Roon, Eugen, and the P-class sisters as suitable tanks. Eugen is out because she benefits a gunline more, like Ägir. I picked Roon because this is actually one of my OpSi fleets, and the extra damage against Sirens and MGM+1 appealed to me more than the not-actually-that-big increase in FP and Efficiency that the sisters get. (Also because I find Roon's personality less annoying than the sisters', but that's not nearly as big a deal.) Leipzig provides some offensive buffs and an increase in Speed for the vanguard, while Magdeburg gets barrages and progressive increases in damage dealt as the sortie goes on, but I'm not sure if she's actually doing better than Leipzig in a support role, so .... Unfortunately, Iron Blood doesn't have much support for its carriers; Bismarck and Peter Strasser are, IIRC, the only ships that have a direct buff for them.

In a Bismarck/Graf Zeppelin/August von Parseval fleet, the Vanguard would probably look much the same as the battleship fleet - Ägir, Emden or Leipzig, and Mainz. Without carrier-buffing ships, you just use good ones that work well together, and/or with Bismarck.

Blücher would probably do well in the first fleet as the third ship, or in the second fleet as either the second or third ship. I actually don't have her levelled to max yet, so I haven't played around with her too much. I also don't use destroyers unless there's something specific that needs them; Z1 and Z23 are both very good on their own, but despite their offensive advantages compared to some light cruisers, their brittleness is concerning and they don't add much to the fleet as a whole.
 
This first post ITT is gonna be kinda nitpicky, because that's just how I am. But later I intend to crosspost a bunch of updated BIG MATH SCARE WHISKEY posts from SB since I do need to revisit some of them to update them for changes that have happened in the past 1-3 years since I've covered some topics.

They also have the best AA - San Diego, Reno, Vestal, North Carolina, Hamman II, all the other Atlanta-class.
Only 2 of those are actually any good at AA. North Carolina's AA- like pretty much all the SSR/UR rarity Eagle Union BBs- is held up entirely by raw stat value, her AA efficiency is very poor. Also her skillset doesn't really reward building into AA either, you still get more +FP stat from taking Black/White shells rather than using gold AA Radars to leverage her AA Firepower skill that takes base+gear AA stat and applies 30% of that value as additional FP stat. Showboat's main AA job is providing her aviation damage resistance skill.

San Diego- with or without her retro- and Reno are the two of the Atlanta-class that are good at AA. The others are kind of mediocre and very budgetary, but given that oil cap got introduced like a year ago or something the oil cost benefit is much less useful. Also in cases where oil efficiency is important it's still better to use the strongest possible ships in something like a 1:1 or 1:2 fleet configuration- you save way more oil by having overleveled ships duo a stage rather than using a larger/full fleet of lower-rarity ships to penny pinch your oil.

Vestal (and Akashi) are only good at AA because they have two AA gun slots each with AAGM+1. They can both push that AA DPS number pretty high but they do literally nothing else which is kind of a pain since backline/main fleet ships are also your primary DPS beatsticks. Really hard to take the idea of switching one of your DPS beatsticks for an AA carry, especially when the best vanguard options are just as good because the repair ships crutch super hard on mount spam.

Hammann II I haven't actually run the numbers for, though she's got slightly better raw AA stat and much better efficiency than Amazon Retro, the other AAGM+1 DD, so I'd roughly hedge Hammann II as probably being somewhere in the 1300-1400 AA DPS range. Which is good but not great, but also faces the problem that Allen M Sumner will still just blow Hamman II's output out of the water, as will Reno and San Diego Retro. I guess pray for a retrofit like Isuzu or Independence got, where they got huge performance gains.

I will say though that if one is committed to mono-faction fleets then Eagle Union ships typically have much more flexibility in AA carry selection than any other faction, their CV/Ls having high fighter efficiency means that they're very good at providing top cover with Flapjacks from the gear lab, and the way that most of their high-rarity ships also have high AA stats means that they just take less damage from aviation damage sources so they don't need as much raw AA DPS to make up for fragility in that regard. Definitely way better off than Ironblood is, where every ship with even tangentially AA related skills after the Inverted Orthant event first dropped in Dec 2020 just utterly dumps all over poor Nurnberg.

I'm going to cut out a lot of the extra modifiers and math, so this isn't going to be perfectly accurate
Perfectly accurate is an understatement, those numbers are about 30% lower than what Gangut can do at lvl120/100 affection with her vodka cannon at +6 (in fairness said gun only upgrades to +7 due to changes made to gear upgrades when Operation Siren first debuted).

While HIdden, carriers get two buffs: [...] and it gives them a damage buff by decreasing enemy resistance to aerial damage.
I cannot overstate how strong this damage bonus is in practice. -10% to enemy aviation damage resistance sounds terrible and weak, but enemies follow the AA resistance formula just the same as player-controlled ships do, so for enemies with very high AA stats they can get up to 90% aviation damage resistance. That -10% is applied as a flat effect too, so it reduces a 90% aviation resist enemy to 80% aviation resistance. Which means in that specific scenario (which is rather typical of W13 boss fights) Hidden status will literally double the damage your CV/Ls do.

because the best AA Fighters don't have bombs
Flapjack called, and is very offended that you forgot it exists.

And since each aircraft has its own Reload value, and an Airstrike isn't ready until all aircraft in that strike are ready
That's... not really how that works.

The game also makes carriers almost required in later maps - sortieing with insufficient air power penalizes the players' fleets
In practice this is both true and an overstatement. Primarily the actual requirement can be easily met with 2 fleet CVs and a light CV, even on 13-4 which remains the highest ACV stage in the game at present (W14 actually has lower ACV requirements, though it's still about even with W12). Also, ACV doesn't exist in Operation Siren so one can totally run pure BB fleets, at least up until you run into a chain of Abyssal/Stronghold bosses that have the "50% chance to reduce shelling damage to 1" trait.

That said, the strongest individual subs are probably Leonardo da Vinci
Da Vinci is in fact so strong that she can replace a wolfpack member.

This makes a simplistic 'equip highest DPS gear' choice one that is not always the best option, because your subs are only going to be firing two, maybe three times, and they might miss, and hopefully they're actually far enough forward to target the enemy ships ....
Somebody (that isn't me in this case) already did the math on this. Wiki page. Also the Pressure Hull aux in the Core shop is purpose-designed to make sure your subs are always in range, which is why 99% of the time the meta submarine aux setup is gold snorkel+purple pressure hull.

Light cruisers are, for lack of a better term, your general-purpose warship.
but so far as I can see the majority of individual CLs do at most two things well.
For the endgame meta CLs tend to be picked for specialist/utility value in most cases. For example Helena Retro's radar scan debuff or Jeanne d'Arc's barrier shields for vanguard survival. Plymouth is the most standout exception in that she's much like Agir an utterly brokenly powerful ship that also synergizes very well with megabeatstick DPS BBs like Musashi and New Jersey. Off the top of my head the only others that generally make the cut are Seattle, Mainz and Harbin; or else the Sakura torpedo nuker squads (usually Noshiro+Jintsuu being used to buff Ayanami Retro or Shimakaze). In the case of Seattle and Mainz they're bulky enough to offtank a lot of endgame boss fights well enough but they aren't great at it and their DPS is also not amazing either.

Harbin is actually a lot like Mainz in that both of them are not actually CLs. Mainz is a CA pretending to be a CL (hence her bulk and durability). Contrarily, Harbin is a DD pretending to be a CL, which is also partly why Harbin is an absolute DPS monster that's worth using because of said DPS. I mean Harbin does also have a reliable smokescreen utility but it's harder to use it in practice because unlike Anchorage the other spam-smoke-on-torp-launch ship Harbin has got really good torpedo DPS so just giving her a blue Twin 550mm launcher is a waste of that.

Generally CL DPS is "good" because it's a lot more consistent and CLs also have somewhat better gunnery statlines (mainly with access to MGM+1) than most gunboat DDs. Speaking of gunboat DDs...

While destroyers are quite fragile, however, they are very strong offensively.
An understatement given that three of the highest DPS vanguards in the entire game are destroyers.

Gunboats, on the other hand, can have incredibly high main gun Efficiency and Firepower
There also exists another type of gunboat DD. It's not a story the gunboat CLs would tell you. But there exists the fabled low-FP/gun eff, MGM+1 gunboat DD. Ships like Suzutsuki, Wakatsuki, Kitakaze and Yuudachi Retro. Of course then the DDGs showed up and decided to have it all but that's beside the point.

They are very strong, particularly against enemy fleets and Light Armor bosses.
Another understatement, An Shan Retro specifically is able to out DPS Drake against light armor bosses even when Drake is using a +13 Triple 234mm BL rainbow gun. Both of them also tend to out-DPS Saint Louis (also inferred with +13 gear) as well, which is a bit disappointing since "murder light armor bosses" is Saint Louis' entire raison d'etre. But yeah the DDGs be broken as fuck with how strong they are.

Of the two main types of destroyers, I prefer gunboats - they're tougher, so better able to weather the hits that you will take, and they typically aren't so fast that I get annoyed trying to control them.
Gunboat DDs are still generally not tough enough to hang around all that long in endgame fights unless you have really good manual skills, or are fine with them getting punk'd even if you win. Also it sounds like you mostly play manually? But in both manual and auto play you can "tune" the speed of the vanguard by saddling a speed demon like say Shimakaze with a couple of slowpoke CB/CA ships. Which also has the side effect of generally keeping the squishy murderbeast DD alive since you stick the meatbrick CB/CAs on either side to take the lead main tank/trail offtank positions.
 
Also it sounds like you mostly play manually?
I do, yes; I'm also just not that good at playing the game manually, or at least I can't tell when something went wrong because I screwed up or I just wasn't paying attention. I do know that keeping the mouse over the correct Special button is something that's been frequently giving me trouble in my search for New Orleans.

I don't think I disagree with any (or at best, not much) of what you're saying, but it's also a lot more granular than I'm willing to go into. Like ... say, the Atlanta-class cruisers. Yeah, San Juan doesn't exactly live in the rain without an umbrella without getting wet, but she's still better than a huge percentage of individual ships in the game. I do appreciate the granular approach, I just won't do it myself because I hate needing to have three different pages open so I can compare three ships' [Stat] without losing track of what I'm doing.

I'm actually a little embarrassed I forgot the MGM+1 Destroyers; I'd like to say that my excuse is I don't play Sakura ships very much and/or I forgot Eskimo exists, but since I do know I meant to talk about the Max Limit Break buff that destroyers get and I didn't even remember to do that, I can't even say for sure that that's why I didn't talk about them.
 
For the endgame meta CLs tend to be picked for specialist/utility value in most cases. For example Helena Retro's radar scan debuff or Jeanne d'Arc's barrier shields for vanguard survival. Plymouth is the most standout exception in that she's much like Agir an utterly brokenly powerful ship that also synergizes very well with megabeatstick DPS BBs like Musashi and New Jersey. Off the top of my head the only others that generally make the cut are Seattle, Mainz and Harbin; or else the Sakura torpedo nuker squads (usually Noshiro+Jintsuu being used to buff Ayanami Retro or Shimakaze). In the case of Seattle and Mainz they're bulky enough to offtank a lot of endgame boss fights well enough but they aren't great at it and their DPS is also not amazing either.
I was mostly looking at Seattle, Mainz, San Diego retro, and Noshiro when I said CLs are typically good at two things at most, and was counting support/utility and ASW in addition to the more typical survivability, torpedoes, gunnery, & AA. Helena retro seems like the outlier as a CL who's such an absurdly strong support that she's worth using despite not contributing much else, though her AA isn't terrible. Ryza and Rikka are also fairly solid and generalists (as opposed to a specialist like Helena), but as crossover characters they probably aren't ever getting reruns. I haven't used Jeanne in ages, so I didn't think to mention her as another specialist like Helena.

I think that covers just about all the CL's I currently use for late game content on a regular basis, which is why I limited who all I looked at. In Op Siren my BB deathstack fleet has Helena retro, my USN carrier fleet has Seattle (but I probably should find someone with actual synergy), my Sakura fleet has Noshiro, and my level-up fleet rotates characters. The only outlier is that I'm currently using Helena Meta for QE Meta's showdown to clear the summons. She's an oddity in that she's alright at gun DPS, has some support, and can off-tank well enough for that fight but doesn't seem to be particularly good at anything. I used her in Frostfall EX, but I probably should've swapped her for one of the DDGs.
 
I do, yes; I'm also just not that good at playing the game manually, or at least I can't tell when something went wrong because I screwed up or I just wasn't paying attention. I do know that keeping the mouse over the correct Special button is something that's been frequently giving me trouble in my search for New Orleans.
A lot of the meta doesn't consider manual play since... well to be honest as fun as it sometimes can be, it's also kind of objectively less optimal than turning on auto mode and letting it run itself for the most part. For 14-4 specifically it is also totally possible to autofarm the stage, though I personally did find it more convenient to not autosearch farm the stage. OTOH my RNG for New Orleans was pretty good, I'd have to dig out the log I manually kept to track how many clears it took but I know someone else in the SB thread was at like 200+ before he got New Orleans to drop (contrarily Bunker Hill took me a ridiculous amount of time while he got her pretty fast).

Also something I personally found helpful is to bind some/all of the torp/airstrike/BB gun buttons to a hotkey on the keyboard if playing via emulator. It... would probably actually be even better if using a controller, map said controls to the face buttons on a gamepad with the stick on the, well, stick. All that's left at that point is just building up a bit of muscle memory.

I was mostly looking at Seattle, Mainz, San Diego retro, and Noshiro when I said CLs are typically good at two things at most
Yeah I would agree that most CLs are not very multidisciplinary in their kit design, but on the flipside they do tend to be pretty good at their specific utility functions. Jeanne d'Arc is for example still the best vanguard survival buffstick that you can stick in the vanguard, she just doesn't do much else unlike say Anchorage (CA-level gun DPS, main tank level durability, plus a strong group defensive buff in the smokescreen).
 
A lot of the meta doesn't consider manual play since... well to be honest as fun as it sometimes can be, it's also kind of objectively less optimal than turning on auto mode and letting it run itself for the most part. For 14-4 specifically it is also totally possible to autofarm the stage, though I personally did find it more convenient to not autosearch farm the stage.
That's a relief. I thought I was just bad at manual mode compared to everyone else. I also run autobattle but not autosearch for 14-4, which I should get back to. New Orleans is the last campaign boss drop only character I'm missing.

Yeah I would agree that most CLs are not very multidisciplinary in their kit design, but on the flipside they do tend to be pretty good at their specific utility functions. Jeanne d'Arc is for example still the best vanguard survival buffstick that you can stick in the vanguard, she just doesn't do much else unlike say Anchorage (CA-level gun DPS, main tank level durability, plus a strong group defensive buff in the smokescreen).
Huh, I'll have to get around to getting Jeanne to lv 125 at some point then, she could be useful for 14-4. I still need to get the "clear the entire map" stars on 14-3 & 14-4. Anchorage is great, but she can only be in one fleet at a time.

Edit: Oh my goodness, that's a lot more subs than I remembered 14-4 having. Ouch. Time to go grab the Hedgehog launcher.
 
Last edited:
So actually getting around to crossposting some of the resources from the SB thread that I've written up. Welcome to

The Gear Lab gear that's actually worth building.

Current as of: 2023-04-20

This focuses primarily on those items in the Gear Lab that are exclusive to it, with small asides to the couple of things that were previously restricted to the research system and/or event maps and are now mass-producible via the gear lab. As well, as the title notes this is also focused on those items which are worth investing in at least one copy.

DD guns:
  • Twin 128mm/45 SK C/41: actually good DD AP gun. Situationally useful vs medium armor enemies, but probably optimal on Z46.
  • Twin 137mm (5.4"/48 Mk1 Prototype): another DD AP gun, but uniquely limited to only being usable on battleships and battlecruisers. New ideal secondary gun for USN BBs.
  • Single 138.6mm Mle1929: the best DD HE gun in the game, now mass-producible via the gear lab.
The Twin 128mm/45 SKC is a DD AP gun that is, unlike almost all other DD AP guns, not shit. In fact it's pretty good, to the point that it has the second highest DPS vs medium armor enemies (such as CAs, CV/Ls, and some battlecruisers). It's a great gun on vanguards, and is probably the best option for Z46 to equip since she gets a pretty big bonus to AP damage. Also, as an AP gun, it can boost its practical DPS due to hitting multiple enemies with the AP piercing effect.

The Twin 137mm gun, is ideal on battleships that are limited to DD-caliber secondary guns, thanks to its best-in-slot FP stat bonus. Basically you need at least one of these for New Jersey, and can add more to taste if you happen to just really like FREEDOM battleships. The Single 138.6mm Mle1929 is the best DD HE gun in the game. Best-in-slot DPS against heavy armor enemies, while still being the third highest DPS vs light armor enemies. Very well rounded. Yo ucan farm it from the Iris of the Light and the Dark archive, but it may be cheaper/easier to build them via the gear lab if you have the means.

None of the other gold rarity DD guns are worth building via the gear lab. Some of them are good, it's mainly just they aren't worth the gear lab/Operation Siren specific mats that doing so would require.

CL guns:
  • Triple 155mm 3YT Kai: Current highest DPS CL gun against light armor enemies. However the difference is fairly small compared to the Triple 152mm Mk17 DP Prototype. Upgrade to that real old school gun, the Triple 155mm 3rd Year Type. Biggest improvement is the shot pattern which is now actually useful, but it also bumps the DPS a bit. This actually has slightly better DPS against light armor enemies than the Triple 152mm Mk17 DP Prototype gun (Seattle gun/Scuttlegun) from PR2, as well as slightly larger Firepower stat bonus and worse reload time.
  • Twin 150mm SK C/28 Prototype: Third highest DPS against medium armor, this CL AP gun manages to out-DPS the Triple 152mm Mk17 DP Prototype (which has slightly more paper DPS against medium armor) due to the laser-accurate shot pattern.
  • Triple 152mm Mk17 DP Prototype: Scuttlegun, to go with Scuttlefish. Largely the best choice for general purpose CL guns on vanguards, with only certain niche situations (or the PR5 Quad 152mm gun) exceeding it.
The Triple 155 3YT Kai has an overall set of characteristics that make it a superb secondary weapon for Battleships and Battlecruisers in most campaign chapters, as it is probably the best CL-caliber (~140-180mm) gun for intercepting the suicide boat enemies before they hit your backline ships. Having 2-3 of these on hand is thus pretty useful. It is well rounded enough to serve as a CL primary as well, though with the addition of the Triple 152mm Mk17 DP gun to the gear lab it is slightly less good for that.

Speaking of the Triple 152mm Mk17 DP gun, this is the best general purpose CL-caliber gun for actual CLs. It trades a slight amount of DPS vs light armor enemies for improved performance against medium and heavy armor. There are some niche situations where the Twin 150mm gun can exceed it, and the new PR5 Quad 152mm is also overall better but vastly more difficult to acquire. Basically you will probably want to build a lot of Scuttleguns because they are very good.

The Twin 150mm SK C/28 Proto is actually quite strong. The very tight spread and highly accurate shot pattern mean that it will apply close to or its actually, fully, its entire paper DPS to enemies in both auto and manual play. That's a pretty big advantage, since very few vanguard guns can do that (and most of the ones that do are 0-degree-spread DD guns). It's worth it on a lot of vanguards because while the reload time is kind of poor, the sheer accuracy it possesses will generally result in more applied DPS than spamming barrages will.

The Triple 152mm BL MkXXV Prototype (the Neptune gun or "Nepgun") is also in the gear lab but not really worth building unless you're specifically wanting to pair it with Neptune because it's her intended gun mount.

CA guns:
TL;DR, the two AP guns are largely equal and the main thing that will dictate which you build (more of) is actually what other stuff you build, since the two have different material requirements. For HE guns pick the Twin 203mm Mle1931, as it has the best shot pattern and so applies its DPS way better than the other options.

If you're a long time player (or just spammed PR1 projects a ton) and have some Roon guns laying around then you can largely pass on building CA AP guns entirely. If you're newer or mostly ignored PR1 projects then like I said the important thing will end up being what materials you have available to build them. The Twin 203mm Mle1931 is basically the original example of a highly accurate shot pattern being better in practice than raw paper DPS is. This unfortunately means that the other CA HE guns aren't really worth building, even if they have higher paper DPS.

The Triple 203mm Mle1934 Prototype has a super niche use on Atago, as its stats give it the best burn damage values of any of the CA HE guns. Problem is, Atago still doesn't burn things very well and is otherwise not very good, so this is kind of a dubious investment.

CB & BB guns
  • Triple 310mm Type 0 Prototype: Azuma gun; currently the only large cruiser-specific HE gun in the game, and the obligate gun for Azuma until she reaches Fate Simulation level 5. Somewhat oddly stuck into the BB gun section of the Sakura gear lab tree.
  • Twin 406mm/56 Mk4 Prototype: twin-barrel AP-type BB gun; faster rate of fire than the triple-barrel types, and with a skill effect to increase damage by 10%, but cause the 5th and subsequent shots to have a 35% increase in reload time.
  • Twin 457mm MkA Prototype: the rainbow BB gun, probably overall the best AP gun you can give a BB... and expensive enough to match.
There are many gold-rarity BB guns which you can build in the gear lab. There is only one that you should build. The 406mm/56 Mk4 Prototype very unfortunately requires a lot of the frequently used and thus very valuable gold Military Electronics parts. It was previously a budget version of the Twin 457mm MkA, and is now fully a precursor item to the rainbow MkA gun. Given that it is now no longer necessary to spam PR2 projects to get this gun, I would say that most players should try and scrape together enough protocores to buy the parts from the prototype shop, and then build two Twin 406mm/56 Mk4 guns to eventually upgrade into their second and third 457mm MkA guns. Though do this in whatever order is simpler for you, if that means building 2 (or even 3) 406mm/56 Mk4 guns first then do that.

The Twin 406mm Mk4 gun does have some quirks, but in most cases this just means you don't use it on Ulrich von Hutten or Champagne due to their permanent speedload nitros (as opposed to the first-shot speedload/preload that some ships can get).

Much has been written about the Twin 457mm MkA, the legendary 18" rainbow gun, the very first ultra-rare weapon in the game. It is as strong as it is expensive to build, and potentially is something that you can have without ever needing to pray to RNGesus to bless your research RNG so you can get it. There are some cases where it isn't optimal, in fairness, but these setups are very specific and almost always involve boss-specific timing considerations or else are using Musashi in the comp.

Speaking of Musashi, the Triple 410mm 10th Year Prototype is a Sakura faction AP gun that has been in the gear lab for ages- possibly even since the gear lab released actually. It is only really relevant as a possible option to build one (1) solely for use on Musashi, as she gets some pretty substantial buffs and improved DPS by using a Sakura-faction main gun... and her own Triple 460mm has a depressingly long reload time and thus is very difficult to work with.

Incidentally, the Triple 310mm Type 0 Prototype gun is also in the Sakura gear lab tree, along with the other Sakura BB gun choices. This gun isn't actually a battleship gun, but is instead for large cruisers. It is mainly distinctive in that it is at present the only large cruiser gun in the game that uses the HE ammo type- all of the others are AP guns instead. This is rather handy to be able to build, though if you're spamming PR2 projects for Azuma/FdG blueprints to get them to dev30/fate 5, then you'll probably end up with a sizeable stack of these in the process. If you aren't spamming PR2 projects though, then building 1-2 of these in the gear lab is pretty reasonable so you can stick it on your large cruisers when fighting light armor bosses.

AA guns (ironically, generally not for AA DPS)
  • Twin 134mm HA: high range, high per-shot AA damage. Has split +15 Firepower/+30 Anti-Air stat bonus. Has very slow reload time for a high-damage/long-range AA gun.
  • Twin 40mm Bofors STAAG: High rate of fire, medium range AA gun; gives +10 Hit/accuracy, twice as much bonus stat.
  • Twin 57mm Bofors Mle1951: we Cold War now bois; highest AA DPS gun in the game, with slightly more range, significantly more rate of fire, and slightly less damage than the Sextuple Bofors.
So the biggest thing to remember is that AA guns in the gear lab have two major problems: first, they all require gold-rarity electronics parts which are generally something you want to use to build gear lab planes and/or work towards the Twin 406mm/56 Mk4->Twin 457mm MkA upgrade chain, but also because most of them at best don't really improve fleet AA capacity or at worst actively suck. Simply due to how AA mechanics work, it is largely a gear/composition check rather than something that is worth ever greater amounts of fine tuning. This goes double considering the UR/rainbow rarity AA gun that got added.

Also the time fuse guns are largely only worth it for the memes. Kinda-sorta a little bit okay if you use them as +FP stat sticks on BBs but not much more than that. Incidentally that's the entire use of the non-timed-fuse Twin 134mm HA AA gun, you stick it on gunboat vanguards that want even more +FP stat bonuses. There's some bosses with super garbage EVA stats (most of the META bosses for example) where +FP is a bigger DPS increase than +Hit is, so that's another use case. Do not ever put it on AA carry ships like San Diego Retro or Cheshire, as the reload time is garbage and will result in their AA DPS being very bad.

The Hazemeyer, being on the research drop table for almost all PR seasons, should almost never actually be built from the gear lab. Instead you'll either want to bank resources to upgrade to STAAGs as much as possible, or gradually build up a stockpile of Hazemeyers from spamming research projects that you then equally gradually upgrade to STAAGs. The STAAG is completely superior, but is also a fair bit more expensive so this is very much a process. Also, in general all BBs/BCs any CVLs that have AA gun slots will want to carry the STAAG, as will many research ships (the latter have very bad LCK stats and LCK is one of the stats used to determine mathematical hitrate vs EVA stats).

Hey remember how I noted that we have a UR AA gun now? Yeah that thing is basically OP. Ideally you want 3 of these things, so that you can fit out a full vanguard with a full set and then tape that vanguard to a triple CV backline. Why you ask? Well it's very simple, it's the highest AA DPS gun in the game, and having three of them in the vanguard means that you get a lot of mileage by virtue of making it take longer for your CV/Ls to lose their Hidden state- and since Hidden state can be a huge DPS bonus, that matters a lot!

You will still generally use the Sextuple Bofors gun on pure/dedicated AA carries like San Diego Retro or Cheshire, especially as part of BB-centric fleets. For pure CV backlines though the Twin 57mm Mle is superior in all cases. It does require a rather sizeable amount of gold Military Electronics parts, but it's worth it. Unfortunately though, all the other gold AA guns are largely not worth it, and sadly the Twin 76mm AA Mk27 gun has been totally obsoleted by the existence of the Twin 57mm Bofors Mle1951.

For surface ship torpedoes, there's three gold-rarity end-of-tree options, one for each of the USN/Eagle Union, RN/Royal Navy, and IJN/Sakura Empire. These are:
  • 533mm Quintuple Mk17: slight upgrade to the prior gold-rarity quintuple 533mm launcher. Very minor stat bonus, some niche ship-specific use.
  • 610mm Quadruple Kai: Similarly, a slight upgrade to the previous gold quad 610mm launcher. Also probably of limited value overall, but not a necessarily bad upgrade for torpedo nukers.
  • 533mm Quintuple MkIX: Very differently, has a tightened, super narrow spread pattern. This makes it an excellent manual facetorping weapon for torpedo nuker vanguards. If that's what you like, I highly recommend this launcher. If not, then probably skip it.
The KMS homing torpedo options are also decent; you can fairly easily build the 533mm quad homing launcher at about the same rate as the 533mm quintuple Mk17/MkIX launchers (well not at the same time, but the prereqs for either set are about as rare as each other). You can also build rainbow-rarity 533mm quintuple homing torpedo launchers. This is an alright but rather expensive upgrade for mob fleets, but for bossing you'll want to stick to the gold quad magtorps instead.

Fighters:
Now at one time I would've recommended building Tigercats, but that was before the Flying Flapjack got added and massacred some history. As far as Azur Lane is concerned, the Flapjack is the cheapest fighter to build if you want a fighter with the 2x1000 lb bomb load, which is significantly more DPS than the typical 2x500 lb bomb load of most other gold fighters. The pancake plane is built based off of purple Corsairs, thus making it super cheap and easy (relatively speaking) to spam out the same way America did with basically every destroyer-sized escort they built in the 1940s.

If you ever spent lots of time on 3-4 farming for Akagi and Kaga, you probably have a big pile of purple Corsairs just waiting to turn into a cocoon and transform into beautiful murder-pancakes. Also you're likely to get way more purple Corsairs out of T4/gold techboxes than you would gold Hellcats, and you can potentially get purple Corsairs out of T3/purple techboxes as well, so the costs of having fighters which pack 2x1000 lb bombs have never been lower.

The only real competitors to the Flapjack at present- in terms of anti-ship DPS- are the Bf109G rocket fighter from PR4 and the HVAR Hellcat from the Yorktown II event; these planes fire a set of AP or HE rockets respectively, with very high practical hitrate and also very high damage against light and medium armor enemies. They're both kinda trash at fighting heavy armor though, so the Flapjack (and technically the other 2x1000 lb bomb fighters) still has a strong niche in that regard.

At one time the F8F Bearcat was on this list, but speed adjustment usually happens for torpedo bomber centric CVs rather than fighter spammers, and on fighter spammers you're usually wanting rocket planes anyway so any speed adjustment use for the Bearcat is kind of negligible. At one time the Shiden Kai 2 was also on this list as an AA DPS type fighter, however the while other planes have higher continuous AA DPS, or in the case of the Shiden Kai 2, the highest single-pass AA damage in the game, none of them come close to the murder-pancake's power of flying really damn slow. Paradoxically, this is actually very good because it gives the Flapjack a ton of time to actually shoot at enemy planes. So in practice Flapjacks are both the best AA DPS fighter and the best option for surface DPS vs heavy armor enemies.

Though you can still build the fighter that has the highest continuous AA DPS in the game. That would be these. They're purple but they really do have the highest continuous AA DPS of any fighter in the game, even when accounting for +11/+13 upgrade levels.

Dive Bombers:
  • Suisei Model 12A: similar to the Bearcat fighter, this is for timing adjustment. Sacrifices bombload quite heavily, but can be useful.
  • Curtiss XSB3C (Experimental): the "Goldiver", the gold version of the purple Helldiver. DPS dive bomber.
The Suisei Model 12A is an upgrade to the venerable Comet in its role of timing adjustment. PR4 exists though and gives us the godlike power of the rainbow dive bomber, the Tenrai, which is reasonably an order of magnitude more effective than even the +13 Goldiver. Basically the problem is that the Model 12A is only useful for timing adjustment, while the Tenrai is a massive DPS beatstick so in a lot of cases there's no real value in not just spamming Tenrais as hard as you can.

Now in fairness Tenrais are obnoxiously difficult to acquire en masse. So there is still some use for reload tuning with the Model 12A. Not very much, but some. There are a couple of carriers with bad dive bomber slots where the Suisei Model 12A is more useful (for example Ark Royal), but this is a bit rare. Also as noted the Tenrai makes the Goldiver deeply obsolescent due to how massively superior it is at out-DPS'ing even +13 Goldivers, even when the Tenrai is merely +10. Goldivers also have to be upgraded to +12/13 in order to achieve higher DPS than +10/11 purple Helldivers too, which just pressures the Goldiver from below and makes it very deeply unviable.

Torpedo Bombers:
  • XTB2D-1 Skypirate: parallel-torpedo drop, with 4 torpedoes instead of 3 compared to the old Barracuda. AoE DPS torpedo bomber.
  • Wyvern: r-r-r-rainbow plane. DPS AoE torpedo bomber, with 4, higher-damage torpedoes compared to the Skypirate. Also has the air intercept ability that fighters have.
  • Ju 87D-4. Aimed-torpedo bomber, similar to the Sakura Empire Ryuusei. Drop pattern is slightly different.
The Skypirate is functionally a budget Wyvern, since the main thing that will throttle Wyvern production is the requirement for UR parts. PR5 does have a fancy 6-torp parallel torpedo bomber (the ViT-2/VK-107) but that depends on spamming PR5 for a bit. So it can be a choice there. Wyverns are amazing, but they are not to be spammed without concern for what you're trying to do with a given fleet. They're great for AoE spam, and they're also great for helping to provide AA DPS/air intercept. That latter trait is very useful in W12/13 in general and even W14 to an extent. For single-target boss fights though you'll need to skip it. It's a fantastic choice for mob fleets though.

Wyverns do require a lot of gold Military Electronics parts (y'know, the one mat that like all the really good stuff in the gear lab needs), but you can reduce that amount somewhat by buying the Blackburn Firebrand plane in the core shop as it's a prerequisite item for the Wyvern.

The Ju-87D-4 is what happens when the Ironblood steal some Ryuuseis and dunk it in beer repeatedly (probably while also drinking copious amounts of said beer) in order to convince both us and themselves that they made it on their own. As noted the drop pattern for the "torpStuka" is different from that of the Ryuusei, and in theory it can be more accurate. But generally speaking you'll be building aimed torpedo spam squads with a ship that brings a slow or ideally a root/timestop effect (so August von Parseval, Formidable or Implacable in the latter case), at which point the drop pattern is pretty irrelevant.

You will want 1-2 Ju-87D-4 torpedo bombers though, as both Graf Zeppelin and August von Parseval have skills which activate based on equipping any Ironblood faction plane. The next best option for such purposes would be the Bf109G rocket fighter but there's a number of situations where the Bf109G is suboptimal (none of the rocket-armed planes can do air intercept for example, and they're all pretty bad at DPS vs heavy armor enemies). Also, Ju-87D-4s are not a good alternative to bad research RNG locking you out of Ryuuseis- instead just spam techboxes to get various Sakura torpedo bombers, almost all of which form part of the production chain for the gold Ryuusei... and also the purple plan->gold Ryuusei upgrade is cheaper than the equivalent purple plane->gold Ju-87D-4- given the rarity of gold mats, that's the most important part to discount.

Seaplanes are bad and BBVs are bad. And you should feel bad if you think otherwise (I'm only mostly joking). Don't bother with the gold RATO Comet. It's bad. The only possible seaplane you should build is the Seiran, as the Sakura submarine I-13 can equip seaplanes, Seiran has a special bonus when used by submarine carriers (which I-13 is). Also it's purple, so that makes it very cheap to build compared to actually good planes.

Submarine torpedoes are complicated, but can be summed up as the Mk20S Bidder in the RN tree is best-in-slot, the G7e acoustic homing in the Ironblood tree is easily mass producible and still very good as well, while the rainbow-rarity Type 95 Kai Pure Oxygen Torpedo is non-homing and fairly niche... but against Arbiter: The Hermit IX it's decent since she stands still for about 30 seconds or so. But submarines aren't important up until you're tryharding against Arbiters or trying to avoid getting murdered by W14 so these are pretty niche in general.
 
Goldivers also have to be upgraded to +12/13 in order to achieve higher DPS than +10/11 purple Helldivers too
Wait, really!? *checks the numbers on the wiki* Huh, you're right. Darn, I've wasted a lot of resources making XBS3C's then, considering not all of mine are at +13.

Also, Ju-87D-4s are not a good alternative to bad research RNG locking you out of Ryuuseis
But they are a decent alternative to RNG making your Ryuuseis useless in fleets that don't have a slow or freeze to prevent the boss from dodging, though the better solution is to build the fleet to have a slow. Thankfully, Ark Royal, Centaur, and Formidable are permanently available in special construction now, so even players who missed Implacable have solid options for CV's with slows. There's probably other good options for setting up Ryuuseis, those are just the ones that come to mind (they may not be the optimal characters for it either).

Wyverns are amazing, but they are not to be spammed without concern for what you're trying to do with a given fleet. They're great for AoE spam, and they're also great for helping to provide AA DPS/air intercept. That latter trait is very useful in W12/13 in general and even W14 to an extent. For single-target boss fights though you'll need to skip it. It's a fantastic choice for mob fleets though.
Wyverns do decently enough against bosses that I get away with using them on my USN carriers against bosses for everything up through Arbiter hard mode fights. It's not optimized, but this game rarely requires that level of optimization.

Edit:
Out of curiosity, how much of the SB thread is interesting discussion like this and how much of it is being thirsty for the latest waifus?

Edit 2:
If you ever spent lots of time on 3-4 farming for Akagi and Kaga, you probably have a big pile of purple Corsairs just waiting to turn into a cocoon and transform into beautiful murder-pancakes. Also you're likely to get way more purple Corsairs out of T4/gold techboxes than you would gold Hellcats, and you can potentially get purple Corsairs out of T3/purple techboxes as well, so the costs of having fighters which pack 2x1000 lb bombs have never been lower.
You can also farm purple corsair parts from 11-2, which has an oil cost limit that makes it also a decent source of coins & exp.
 
Last edited:
Wait, really!? *checks the numbers on the wiki* Huh, you're right. Darn, I've wasted a lot of resources making XBS3C's then, considering not all of mine are at +13.
In fairness Goldivers were still the best-in-slot dive bomber up until the Tenrai got added, and if Tenrais weren't as massively brokenly powerful as they are then Goldivers might still have a niche as a budget plane considering how gigantically awful it is to grind for research gear. Which is still is pretty tedious now, even though they added the research queue feature at like the beginning of PR4 I think.

But they are a decent alternative to RNG making your Ryuuseis useless in fleets that don't have a slow or freeze to prevent the boss from dodging, though the better solution is to build the fleet to have a slow.
It's an extremely niche use case though. Most of the time that you'd actively eschew a controller setup to guarantee 100% hitrate would be if you're playing with strike timings and boss movement patterns so that your airstrikes are going out when the boss is stationary. Which is a viable setup it's also just a really complicated one to pull off because of how it's super dependent on both specific boss and specific CV/L stats.

There's probably other good options for setting up Ryuuseis, those are just the ones that come to mind (they may not be the optimal characters for it either).
Well ignoring Implacable who's largely at the top of the heap right now, I'd say it's probably August von Parseval with fate 5 > Formidable = Ark Royal Retro = Parseval at Fate4 or less > Centaur. Centaur gets the short end of the stick here because her deckload is 50% fighters which makes her really great for building around a rocket spam team with Albion+1 other- and is actually quite strong in that case- but for Ryuusei spam that 50% fighter deckload is pretty bad. Similarly Centaur having only a slow rather than a root/timestop effect means this is even worse for Ryuusei spam (for rocket fighters though it's not much of a problem).

Parseval though is only really eclipsed by Implacable if the former gets her fate 5 upgrade, since that boosts her CC effect from 75% chance to activate to 100%. Which is actually considerably better than even Formidable, since Formi only gets guaranteed lockdown on her first airstrike launch, all subsequent strikes it's an 80% proc. Ark is about even because her deckload is pure DPS and she has the Assault Carrier skill- in fact in terms of DPS Ark Retro is a bit better than Implacable when fighting heavy armor enemies if she can get those Assault Carrier procs. Which is a bit of a big ask since the skill is only 25% chance to activate.

Wyverns do decently enough against bosses that I get away with using them on my USN carriers against bosses for everything up through Arbiter hard mode fights. It's not optimized, but this game rarely requires that level of optimization.
Independence is the only USN CV/L in the game that actually gets a substantial portion of her damage from torpedo bombers. Almost all of the rest are flying off like 2 planes with 120-ish% slot efficiency. The actual DPS contribution from the torpedo bomber slot is way less compared to using a strong dive bomber or a rocket fighter. This is of course also part of why Yorktown II is best positioned alongside Parseval for control+debuffs and then another DPS beatstick (Enterprise if you're fine crutching on Lucky E procs, probably Hornet II if you want guaranteed reliability/consistency) and then spamming tons of rocket fighters to murder light armor bosses. Or medium armor ones for that matter, since Bf109G fighters with AP rockets are more DPS vs medium armor than Ryuuseis are.

Worth noting as well that what might be happening if you're doing something like rocket fighters+Wyverns is that the Wyverns are helping your CVs keep Hidden state for longer. Against some bosses that works out to a really huge DPS buff.

Anyway usually the super minmax reason to go all-in for that kind of setup is for ganking Arbiter hardmode fights and kinda-sorta Abyssals. Or even just some other OS/endgame fights where you don't want to hope that the RNG goes your way- though Wyverns are actually very good in W14 bosses since they help with spamming out AoE to gank the command BB reinforcement spawns. Which is pretty important since those are probably the thing that will kill your backline in most W14 boss fights (14-2 Yamashiro is a BBV that is hilariously more dangerous than 13-4 Taihou when it comes to spamming aviation damage... though really it's more of a gotcha fight since W14's threat spectrum is tilted mostly away from aviation so bringing an AA carry in your boss fleet (Cheshire is optimal for 14-2 Yamashiro) is a bit out of left field especially since the 14-3 and 14-4 bosses don't repeat the gimmick).

Out of curiosity, how much of the SB thread is interesting discussion like this and how much of it is being thirsty for the latest waifus?
Varies a bit. Right now the discussion is moving pretty slow since we're in a pretty dead time new-content wise, Skybound Oratorio just got archived and we're getting a rerun of the DoA collab event with the next patch this coming Thursday (which is actually interesting since that's the first time there's ever been a rerun of a collab event). Everybody's pretty sure we're gonna get the New Jersey event rerun soon too, so it's basically a case of waiting for whatever new thing is actually going to show up.

Not as much thirsting happens- I mean yeah it does and I'll fully admit I contribute when it happens but we do try to keep it a bit low-key to keep the mods happy. The other side of it is just that like half to two thirds of the people posting in the SB thread are the Azur Lane version of crusty grognards. So everybody kind of already knows how to optimize at least somewhat well, and generally has most/all of the super-meta ships maxed out with tons of +10 to +13 gear. Main thing that we're waiting for is mostly just anything on the rumored roguelike mode as well as whatever the next major event(s) will be.
 
Royal Navy Vanguard


Going to try a different format to see if it works better for me. Royal Navy destroyers trend low HP and higher Evasion, with lowish Firepower but decent Gun Efficiency.

V-Class: Vampire is a fun little ship who happens to have the lowest HP in the game at 1346. Mostly nothing to be excited about, she is a Vanguard Healer, but unfortunately her Heal is tied to three sequentially-fired, non-homing Torpedoes that begin firing at 25 seconds, so she isn't going to have much to hit unless you're either letting her (by not firing your backline) or you're using her in content where she's much more at risk of getting hit by a high-impact shot.

Amazon Class: Amazon is everyone's favorite destroyer; a mediocre combat ship by plain stats, she has an extra AA mount, decreases the amount of damage destroyers take, and increases the amount of damage she deals. Importantly, she increases the Experience gained by all destroyers in the fleet, although that's less important now that there are more options for gaining XP.

A-Class & B-Class: Beagle and Bulldog are unfortunate early-game Common Destroyers without much going for them. Low Firepower at 66 but 120% Efficiency along with 359 Torpedo and 135% Efficiency isn't the floor for Royal Navy destroyers, but it's a common enough base to start from. Acasta and Ardent are Rares with Retrofits; Acasta has a huge 50% damage bonus from one of her Skills that is extremely unlikely to trigger and a Smokescreen, while Ardent has a much more manageable pair of Skills that increase the damage carriers do and decrease the damage they take.

C-Class & E-Class: Apart from their very high Evasion - Cygnet is currently the most Evasive ship with 315 Evasion - and Comet's Destroyer Torpedo buff, they don't have much going for them. Note that Comet has much lower Firepower but higher Torpedo than her sisters, and all three gain a Smokescreen, once Retrofits are done. Echo is not noteworthy apart from the Damage Reduction she grants to battleships and battlecruisers.

F-Class & G-Class: The F-class ships are fairly bland ships with a Skill that reduces the damage taken by all Main Fleet ships. Grenville buffs destroyer Firepower, while Glowworm increases the ramming damage that friendly ships deal while reducing the amount they take.

H-Class & I-Class: Hunter is uninteresting, Self-Buff/Self-Debuff Skill notwithstanding. Hardy, however, gives herself a significant buff to her Torpedo Crit Rate and the Torpedo Stat of all RN destroyers. She also buffs her damage dealt to enemy destroyers, and fires a fairly strong barrage with her first torpedo launch. Hero is an ASW star with strong generalist tendencies; she has very high ASW and a stronger default Depth Charge than most destroyers, as well as a cyclical degrading Buff to FP, TRP, and ASW. She can also reduce Torpedo damage taken by the Vanguard and detect all submarines. Icarus is most interesting for having straight-line Torpedoes; one of her Skills eliminates the spread along with temporarily reducing the Torpedo damage she takes.

Tribal-Class: Eskimo is a MGM +1 destroyer, which makes her abnormally low 100% Efficiency much less of a problem. Her other stats are fairly typical for an RN destroyer. She has a guaranteed Barrage at unfortunate 30-second intervals and a weak zombie Skill that also fires it.

J-Class: The J-class sisters are a bit of a mixed bag, thanks to half of them being neglected early-game Rares with nearly identical stats. Jersey reduces the damage other J-class DDs take, but takes more damage herself, and Juno and Jupiter don't have much going for them, just Juno's Smokescreen and Jupiter's Battleship Escort Skill. Javelin has an extremely high Evasion (310) and a Skill that can buff it by an absurd 60%, and her fairly high Torpedo can be temporarily improved by her Retrofit Skill. Her Augment Module Skill rework gives her an additional Barrage and the chance to deal additional damage to an enemy. Janus is the sturdiest Royal Navy destroyer, with 2114 HP, and has the highest FP (122) and buffs her own Offensive stats as well as - if sortied with another J-Class DD - the FP/TRP/ACC of all J-Class DDs. She can also generate an HP barrier around RN DDs, and if destroyed those barriers grant temporary Damage Reduction to the recipients. Jervis can buff her own Offensive stats, as well as the Offensive stats of all RN DDs, and Heals all Vanguard ships at the 20-second mark. She also takes less damage from aircraft, and can temporarily increase her own Evasion Rate by 30%. Note also that all J-Class destroyers, when equipped with the J-Class Crown Auxiliary Gear (which gives quite a lot of HP), gain a 10% Damage Buff against non-Royal Navy enemies.

M-Class: High ASW ships with a Torpedo focus. Matchless can boost the damage of Torpedoes hitting a target by a massive 40%. Musketeer has a theoretically-amazing stacking Buff to Torpedo, capable of increasing her TRP stat by 96%, but it only triggers every 20 seconds, meaning in most content her base-405 TRP is 'only' going to get a 36% increase at most, and in any case actually hitting the cap leaves very little time left in the battle.


Royal Navy light cruisers tend toward relatively Offensive ships with good Efficiencies.

Ceres-Class: Curacoa and Curlew are DD-gun-capable light cruisers with two separate AA mounts. They share a self-Buff to FP/AA, but Curlew improves the damage output of carriers while Curacoa buffs the AA of the Vanguard. Curacoa is a bit tougher and has higher Gun Efficiency, and Curlew has more Luck, but the biggest difference between the two really is the second Skill.

Arethusa- and Emerald-Class: All four ships have very similar stats, Luck aside. Arethusa only has an unreliable Fleet Reload Buff, while Galatea has a somewhat more consistent self-FP Buff. Penelope, however, has a damage buff against DDs and CLs, and has a stacking EVA/AA buff, and a zombie Skill. Aurora is very useful in some cases, as her second Skill reduces the Evasion Rate of enemy Destroyers and Light Cruisers by 20%, which can especially help Main Fleet ships targeting some Bosses. Her first Skill increases her own damage against DDs and Transport/Torpedo/Suicide boats which helps her contribute. HMS Enterprise has a Torpedo Damage Buff, as well as a Damage Buff against DDs and Torpedo Boats, and Damage Reduction against enemy Destroyer attacks and a temporary FP/Speed buff.

Leander-Class: Leander boasts a bit more FP than previous light cruisers, and higher Torpedo Efficiency. She also comes with a Smokescreen and a Vanguard Firepower Buff. Achilles and Ajax, however - identical apart from Luck - have 160% Gun Efficiency, the highest light cruiser FP at 216, and a somewhat reliable self-FP Buff. They also have a damage Buff against Medium Armor enemies, which makes them dangerous to all enemies; their 363 Torpedo and 160% Efficiency isn't great, but it gives them a solid option against Heavy Armor in addition to their guns.

Fiji-Class: Fiji and Jamaica are fairly typical light cruisers, with stats close to HMS Enterprise. Fiji's Skill gives her a substantial AA buff (which somewhat mitigates her lower AA stat) and Damage Reduction for the entire fleet, but it is very short duration. Jamaica buffs her own FP and TRP if she's sortied with Sheffield (or her idol version).

Dido-Class: The Dido sisters are DD-gun-capable and have great AA (Efficiency varies but the highest is 150%) but very poor Torpedo Stats and Efficiencies. Dido herself Buffs all Dido-class ships (FP/TRP/AA), gives herself a temporary AA/ACC/EVA Buff, and Buffs herself again (FP/AA/RLD) depending on how many RN ships are in her fleet. She also Buffs Queen Elizabeth, increasing her FP/RLD/EVA/ACC and her Main Gun Crit Rate. Charybdis Buffs her own EVA, and has a stacking AA Buff; she can also give herself a substantial Damage Buff at the cost of a slight increase in damage taken. She also has an unreliable and very short duration 'Whirlpool' Skill that I haven't seen in action. Hermione has a guaranteed special Barrage, and can Buff her FP/TRP/AA/RLD and her Damage. Scylla has a stacking FP/AA Buff that, when maxed, also increases the AA of the other Vanguards if they have lower AA than Scylla does (Base AA: 445); she can also Buff her own TRP/EVA, temporarily increase the Aircraft damage that enemies take, and give carriers Damage Reduction. Sirius Buffs carriers' AVI and Hit Rate against DD/CL/CAs, can Buff her own FP/TRP/RLD, and Buffs her own FP. Bellona Buffs carrier damage, and her own AA/EVA, and can Buff her own AA Efficiency and RN DD AA. Black Prince has a Smokescreen and, if sortied with an Eagle Union ship, gives herself a substantial Buff to her Main Gun Crit Rate and her FP/TRP.

Swiftsure-Class: Swiftsure can Buff the Vanguard's AA substantially; additionally, shooting down enemy aircraft not only Buffs her own FP slightly, but also gives the Main Fleet slight Damage Reduction against aircraft. She also has a substantial Crit Rate Buff and a smaller Hit Rate Buff against DDs and CLs, and hits from her main gun can reduce the Evasion Rate of the hit ship.

Southampton-Class: The Southamptons are similar to the Arethusas and Fijis, although their Efficiencies vary. Southampton herself (135/130/110) has a terrible Reload Order Skill and a Smokescreen. Newcastle (155/125/145) also has Reload order, but she also has AA Mode and a Vanguard FP Buff, giving her a good amount of flexibility. Sheffield (150/150/110) gives all ships in her fleet that have lower HP than she does at the start of the battle a chance to take half damage; considering her 3884 HP, it's not a Skill to rely on, but it can do some work for DDs and other CLs. She also Buffs her own Main Gun Crit Rate and Crit Damage. Glasgow (135/130/135) has an unreliable FP self-Buff, gives the Main Fleet Damage Reduction, and takes less damage from the attacks of enemy DDs and CLs.

Gloucester-Class: Gloucester is a solid general-purpose cruiser, and reduces the effects of the Out of Ammo Debuff for the entire fleet. She also Buffs her own FP/ACC, and has a stacking Buff for FP/ACC. Manchester Buffs her own FP/ACC, and can fire an extra volley from her main gun when she fires her torpedoes; she also reduces the loading time of her first torpedo wave in exchange for reducing the damage, and can Heal herself once when she takes torpedo damage.

Edinburgh-Class: Edinburgh is quite a tanky light cruiser with 4588 HP; she Buffs the damage from AP guns she equips and can inflict Armor Break using them. Belfast is more offensively focused than her sister, with five hundred less HP but higher FP and TRP; she Buffs damage from HE guns she is equipped with, increases their Burn Chance, has a significant Damage Buff against burning enemies, Buffs her own EVA if there are any burning enemies around, and has a variant Smokescreen that significantly reduces damage from aircraft in addition to Buffing EVA Rate.

Neptune: Neptune is another tanky cruiser, boasting 4742 HP in addition to a zombie Skill (that gives her a slight Reload Buff). She deals increased damage with AP guns, and against Sirens as well.

Plymouth: The current light cruiser queen, Plymouth has 5684 HP and MGM +2 (with 198 FP and 120% Efficiency, and 399 TRP / 165%). She Buffs her own FP and ACC, and can Buff her EVA. She has a special Barrage and can give herself Damage Reduction, has a one-use Heal, and can give BB/BC/BBV Flagships an 18% Damage Buff against targets hit by the barrage.


RN heavy cruisers tend to have low HP and are mostly offensively-oriented.

London-Class: These three ships all have Light Armor and under 4000 HP; even after her Retrofit, London has a base of 3924 HP. She has a Vanguard FP Buff, and a chance to deal double damage with her main guns and a stacking ACC Buff. Shropshire has a chance to fire twice every time she fires her main gun, and has the same Vanguard FP Buff. Both London and Shropshire have a Retrofit that lets them keep the 160% Efficiency Secondary Slot and use it for a DD Gun instead of a Torpedo, giving them an extremely powerful second gun mount. Sussex has no Retrofit, and is a torpedo cruiser with the same Double Gun Skill that Shropshire has.

Kent-Class: Kent's Skill has a chance to give the entire fleet a temporary 25% Damage Buff, but other than that she is a rather fragile torpedo heavy cruiser, with 3589 HP and Light Armor. Suffolk has a Retrofit, which buffs her FP to 276 and her Gun Efficiency to 160%, which combines with her unreliable Skills (Double Gun and a self FP Buff) to let her deal good and occasionally amazing damage. She is still a Light Armor torpedo heavy cruiser.

Norfolk-Class: Norfolk has poor offensive stats - 180 FP / 125% and 143 TRP / 160% - but she has 4727 HP and Medium Armor, along with an unreliable reactive Shield Skill. Dorsetshire is slightly better, with a little more HP and FP, but 248 TRP and 150%, with a Skill that increases her Torpedo Crit Rate by 40% and TRP Crit Damage by 50%.

York-Class: York has 4001 HP after her retrofit, but also comes away with 289 FP and 155% Efficiency for her main guns. Her first Skill can increase her FP by 40%, and triggers fairly frequently thanks to being keyed off Main and Secondary guns. Her Retrofit Skill significantly improves her built-in secondary as well, greatly increasing its Armor Modifiers and Crit Rate. Exeter has less FP and a tiny bit more HP, and the standard (unreliable) self-FP Buff. She also has an unreliable Skill that can give the entire Fleet Damage Reduction, and a Skill that gives her a noticeable Damage Buff against Medium Armor enemies.

Cheshire: Cheshire is quite beefy, with 5260 HP and Damage Reduction. She also has two very high Efficiency AA mounts and more AA than most light cruisers. She has high Firepower (288) and an effective 140% Efficiency, and typically poor CA torpedoes (212 TRP / 155%). Her first Skill gives her the Damage Reduction and a guaranteed special barrage. Her second Skill significantly reduces the loading time for her first two torpedoes, can Buff her TRP damage, and gives her a stacking FP/AA/EVA Buff. Note that she has neither MGM +1 nor Pre-loaded Torpedoes.

Drake: Drake is a very powerful heavy cruiser, with 295 FP, 130% Efficiency, and MGM +1, although her torpedoes are quite bad (250 TRP and 120%). Her first Skill greatly increases the Crit Rate of her built-in Secondary, reduces the number of shots needed to trigger her All Out Assault barrage, and - if she's equipped with a main gun that fires Normal or HE ammo - changes the ammo type of her main gun to a special HE with very high modifiers against Light and Medium Armor. Her second Skill gives her a special vampiric Barrage and Buffs her FP, EVA, and RLD.



Building a Royal Navy Vanguard


(I am going to be mostly ignoring the RN destroyers for this part, largely because while I can see which ones are 'better' - Eskimo, Javelin, Jervis, Janus, probably not Amazon anymore - I am quite capable of recognizing that my combined biases regarding most RN destroyers makes me incapable of properly integrating them into a fleet.)

Off the bat, a RN Vanguard is going to have a bit of trouble absorbing damage, particularly compared to an Iron Blood fleet (higher Evasion means they're more likely to avoid a lot of hits, but the ones that connect are typically going to be felt more strongly). There are a few remedies, of course: Norfolk and Dorsetshire may not have much in the way of offense, but they do have a reasonable amount of HP and Medium Armor. Neptune and Cheshire are both fairly durable, too - Cheshire especially thanks to her damage reduction - and are relatively easy to get through Research; they can even be upgraded with coins. Drake and Plymouth have more HP and self-Heals, but both are DR, and Drake especially wants both her Skills upgraded.

Damage output, on the other hand, the RN can actually do fairly well, whether it's with the DD-gun light cruisers, Belfast (especially when anyone has a flamethrower), or most of the heavy cruisers. York herself tends to do quite well due to her powerful ghost secondary and Armageddon Cannon being able to proc off it as well as the main gun. Drake, of course, is going to do well thanks to MGM +1, although see caveat above. London and Shropshire offer strong main guns combined with exceptionally powerful leaker defense.

Air defense is unquestionably the prerogative of Cheshire. Scylla may have more raw AA, but Cheshire has better Efficiency and a second mount. If you can't use Cheshire (if she's in another fleet, for example), then the Didos are perfectly capable of shouldering most of the work. The Ceres-class are also pretty good despite their fairly low stats and Efficiency.

Keeping things accessible (because while Drake/Plymouth/Cheshire is an amazing Vanguard, two of them are fairly difficult to get up to best strength) - Achilles is a surprisingly strong light cruiser, with good Efficiencies and high FP/TRP; Norfolk is lacking in offensive stats, but is quite sturdy; and Newcastle gives both AA support and firepower. Norfolk is front tank, then probably Newcastle, especially if you want her for AA support. Achilles has much lower HP and lower Luck than Newcastle, but a bit more EVA, so it probably depends on whether you're prioritizing Newcastle's AA and FP Buff or if you want to keep your biggest damage-dealer safer.

York and London together are quite hard-hitting, but fairly fragile, and would benefit from Neptune or Cheshire as front guard; London's FP buff would help them as well.


Royal Navy Main Fleet ships and fully functional fleets later - probably around the weekend.
 
Royal Navy Main Fleet



Renown-Class: Two early-game ships, and it shows, with each having a single lackluster Skill. Both are restricted to DD Secondaries as well, which until recently was a significant handicap. Renown has a theoretically useful damage-booster, but since it won't proc more than three or four times in normal content (unless you deliberately sacrifice FP for maximum RLD and the triple 283, and probably not even then), she just can't keep up with harder-hitting ships that actually have good Skills. Repulse has a reflexive temporary self-Reload Buff. They both have terrible HP, better only than Mikasa, (and Medium Armor) and poor base Firepower, with 359 for Repulse and 381 for Renown.

Queen Elizabeth-Class: Warspite is actually pretty good, although she has long since been power-crept by better ships. She has great Firepower (451), a guaranteed timed barrage, reduced Main Gun dispersion, and a self-Firepower Buff. She also has naturally high Accuracy and great Luck, making her great at actually hitting the things she aims at. Queen Elizabeth is ... much worse. Awful Luck, terrible AA, passable Firepower. Her one Skill does Buff the six standard Stats of Royal Navy ships by 15%, which means that a Royal Fleet with her in it is going to have a significant boost in power. Valiant is much like QE in stats, except with higher Luck. Her first Skill gives her a Barrage that causes a long-duration Armor Break to all enemies hit by it that stacks with other sources of Armor Break. Her second Skill is a fairly weak on-fire Barrage with a 50% chance to proc.

Admiral-Class: Hood is ... fairly good? High HP, very low Firepower (347), her only Skill is an on-fire Barrage that also Buffs the entire Main Fleet's Reload temporarily. She is also restricted to destroyer guns for her Secondary Slot, just like the Renowns, and Medium Armor.

Nelson-Class: Nelson and Rodney are nearly identical: Nelson has 25 more HP, 2 more EVA, and 15 lower Luck. They have passable Firepower, but their only Skill is a very unreliable on-fire Barrage. They have less HP than Hood, but Heavy Armor, and can use CL guns. They do not get Torpedoes.

King George V-Class: Fairly solid battleships. KGV herself has a chance for a timed Barrage and improves the Quad 356mm slightly if she's using it, giving her a very fast first load, significantly improving its Crit Rate, and reducing the spread slightly. She also has a damage Buff against Sakura, Sardegna, IB, and Siren ships, and Buffs her own FP/RLD/AA/EVA significantly if she's sortied with three other RN ships. Prince of Wales, on the other hand, Buffs herself for each Eagle Union ship she sorties with (up to three), and if there are at least three EU ships, she Buffs their AA/FP (if Vanguard) or AA/AVI (if Main Fleet). Duke of York has a timed Barrage that Slows the ship hit, and significantly increases the damage of her first Salvo as well as increasing the damage taken by enemies hit by her main gun shells. Howe has a timed Barrage that temporarily Buffs the Reload and Accuracy of BB/BC/BBV in the Main Fleet, and Buffs her own FP/RLD and can further Buff her FP/AA; Howe also has slightly higher main gun Efficiency than her sisters, 140% to 135%.

Revenge-Class: Revenge has a timed Barrage with coin-flip chances that can inflict Armor Break. She also Buffs her Firepower. Royal Oak can Buff her own Speed and Firepower, and has a reflexive Barrage that fires if it hasn't been triggered in twenty seconds. She also has a very weak Zombie effect for the first Royal Navy ship to take fatal damage, shields RN Main Fleet ships from some damage when above 18% HP (and deals more damage herself), and heals herself and has Damage Reduction when under 18% HP.

Monarch: Monarch is the only Main Fleet Research Ship for the Royal Navy, and has high Firepower (432) and Main Gun Efficiency (145%). She has a chance for an on-fire Barrage that Slows enemies hit by it. Her Reload gets increased for each percent of HP she loses, and has a Zombie effect.

Vanguard-Class: Vanguard has very high HP (9690), exceptionally high AA (435), with slightly lower FP than Monarch and the same Efficiency. She has a guaranteed Barrage that temporarily increases the damage enemies take from BBs and BCs. She also increases the damage taken by enemies that have been on-screen for more than two seconds, along with increasing her Reload and Accuracy. As a Gacha UR, she increases the FP of Royal Navy Vanguard ships in other Fleets; her cross-fleet Barrage temporarily increases the AA of all ships in that fleet. Her Secondary gun always Crits, and she can Buff her own AA Efficiency by 30%, along with slightly decreasing the spread of her main gun. Finally, if sortied with other RN ships, all RN ships take 10% less damage from aircraft.


Argus-Class: Argus is personally a very weak light aircraft carrier, with only 290 AVI and a Fighter/TRP Bomber setup (3/3, 130%). However, she provides a Zombie effect to each carrier in her fleet, Buffs the AVI/RLD of her fleet and (less strongly) other Fleets, and she has a chance for a special Airstrike when she launches her own Airstrike. She also increases the XP gain of carriers in her fleet. As with most light carriers, she has a slot for a weak AA gun instead of a third aircraft.

Hermes-Class: Also a fairly weak light carrier, Hermes has 304 AVI, but is extremely focused on the attack: she has two Torpedo Bomber slots with 140% Efficiency, and her first Skill gives her a very unreliable chance to deal double damage. Her second Skill gives her a timed random Airstrike and slightly increases her Luck when she's at low HP.

Eagle-Class: Eagle is a full carrier with a Firepower stat; like Zeppy and a few other carriers, she can equip a light cruiser gun in her third slot. Her first two Slots are for Fighters (135%) and TRP Bombers (140%), with three each, while her third slot can be equipped with two Dive Bombers (55%). Her first Skill can increase the Efficiency of her third slot by 45% if it's used to carry a CL Gun, as well as increasing the Range to 80 and giving her a timed Barrage; if it's used for Dive Bombers instead, the load time of her first Airstrike is cut in half. Her second Skill simply launches a special TRP Bomber Airstrike when she launches a normal Airstrike. As with the other CL-gun-capable carriers, equipping her with the PDW is generally more useful than more planes.

Attacker-Class: Chaser is an ASW-focused light carrier, tied for second place in carrier ASW at 146. She has a 3/3 Fighter/TRP setup (130%/145%). Her first Skill gives her a very low chance of being able to immediately launch another Airstrike. Her much more useful second Skill Reveals, Slows, and increases the damage taken of enemy submarines for 10 seconds after she launches an Airstrike, and launches a dual-purpose ASW/Torpedo bomber special airstrike.

Unicorn-Class: Unicorn has a 4/3 Fighter/TRP Bomber setup (145%/135%); much more crucially, she has a Preloaded Airstrike, Heals the Vanguard when she Airstrikes, and the first time she also Heals the Main Fleet.

Colossus-Class: Perseus is the other top-rated Healer; she has a poor 3/3 Fighter/TRP setup (100%/100%), but she has two Preloaded Airstrikes and Heals both the Vanguard and the Main Fleet. Her first Skill also drastically increases the load time for her Airstrikes, however. Her second Skill gives her a guaranteed timed Airstrike. Her third Skill gives her a weak timed Heal and a cross-fleet Heal at the 20-second mark. Perseus is also tied for second-highest ASW with Chaser. Theseus, on the other hand, is much more like a full carrier than a light carrier. She has an AVI of 428 and three plane slots: Fighter/Dive/TRP (2@110%/3@125%/3@150%). Her first Skill gives her a special Airstrike and increases the damage she deals against enemies that have been on-screen for at least 10 seconds. Her second Skill Buffs her AVI/ACC and gives her a guaranteed timed Barrage. Her third Skill gives her a timed self-Heal, reduces the effect of the Out-of-Ammo Debuff on her, and gives her stacking Damage Reduction for defeating enemy fleets.

Courageous-Class: Glorious is a weak aircraft carrier, with a base AVI of only 365. Her three slots are FTR/TRP/TRP (3@140%/2@115%/2@115%), but her first Skill - in addition to temporarily Buffing Vanguard ships' damage when she launches an Airstrike - increases her plane slots' Efficiencies by 20%, which gives her quite dangerous Fighters and reasonably effective TRP Bombers. Her second Skill decreases the damage taken by the Vanguard after she launches an Airstrike.

Centaur-Class: Like Theseus, these two light carriers have three plane slots with CV-level AVI. Centaur has 426 AVI and a FTR/FTR/TRP setup (2@125%/2@120%/4@140%). Her first Skill Buffs her damage against Battleships and gives her a special airstrike that Slows enemies hit by its Torpedoes. Her second Skill buffs the Main Fleets AVI/FP when she launches an airstrike. Albion has 430 AVI and the same setup and Efficiencies, but can use Dive or Torpedo Bombers in the third slot. Her first Skill temporarily increases her own damage against a random enemy when she launches an Airstrike, as well as launching special airstrikes to detect and attack submarines. Her second Skill Buffs her own AVI/ACC, and can further buff her AVI/AA if there are enough RN ships in the fleet. Her third Skill increases the Detection Gauge for the Main Fleet, decreases Burn Damage taken by the Main Fleet, and transforms half of any 'overkill' Healing on Vanguard ships into very temporary HP Barriers that also increase the damage dealt by the protected ship(s).

Ark Royal-Class: Ark Royal is an extremely offensive-oriented carrier with a TRP/TRP/Dive setup (3@143%/3@143%/2@95%). She famously has a special Airstrike that Slows all on-screen enemies as her first Skill. Her second Skill gives her a low chance to temporarily increase her damage dealt when she launches an airstrike. Her third Skill fires a Barrage that temporarily reduces the AA of enemies hit by it, launches a special Airstrike, and temporarily increases the damage dealt by destroyers and by Royal Navy Vanguards.

Illustrious-Class: The Illustrious sisters are all Heavy Armor aircraft carriers, but apart from that and their reasonable health pools (6409-6713), they are very different from each other. Illustrious herself has relatively low AVI (405) and a FTR/FTR/TRP loadout (3@135%/3@135%/2@110%); accordingly, her sole Skill is defensive in nature, providing Vanguard ships with an HP Barrier that, if destroyed, lightly heals the protected ship. Formidable, on the other hand, is more aggressive, with slightly higher AVI and a FTR/TRP/TRP setup (2@120%/3@135%/3@125%), although she can also substitute Dive Bombers in her Fighter slot. Her first Skill Buffs her AVI, improves the Efficiency of any Fairey Albacore planes she is using, and lets her launch additional Fairey Albacores that can cause Flooding. Her second Skill is a reliable Stop effect when she launches an Airstrike, although it's only guaranteed the first time she launches an Airstrike. Her third Skill gives her some Damage Reduction, and gives temporary Damage Reduction to other Main Fleet ships after she launches an Airstrike. Victorious has a FTR/DB/TRP setup (2@120%/3@130%/3@130%), and the lowest Reload of all carriers at 105. Her first Skill increases her damage dealt to battleships, decreases the damage she takes from salvoes, and increases the damage other carriers do to battleships. Her second Skill gives her a chance to double her damage dealt after she launches an Airstrike. Indomitable has the highest AVI (434) and Reload (124) among the sisters, and has a FTR/FTR/TRP setup (3@130%/3@140%/2@120%). Her first Skill launches additional aircraft with her Airstrike that can cause a special Burn to enemies. Her second Skill gives her a timed special Airstrike that can inflict a special Burn, and also temporarily reduces the damage taken by friendly ships from aircraft when her aircraft shoot down enemy planes. Her third Skill increases the damage dealt by Illustrious-class Ships, and either Buffs the AVI/ACC of other Illustrious-class ships; Buffs Indomitable's AVI/ACC; or just Buffs Indomitable's AVI.

Implacable-Class: Implacable is a Gacha UR, and is also a Heavy Armor carrier. She has a FTR/X/TRP setup (3@140%/3@130%/3@130%); the second slot can equip any of the three aircraft types. Her first Skill lets her fleet (and other fleets, the first three times they fight) gain stacks of No Mercy (up to 9), and launches a special Airstrike along with her normal Airstrike that consumes all current stacks of No Mercy to (3+ stacks) temporarily increase Indomitable's damage dealt, (6+ stacks) prevent her Detection Gauge from rising due to launching the Airstrike, and (9) guarantee Critical Hits for the special Airstrike. Her second Skill gives her a guaranteed Stop, and temporarily reduces the EVA of a random enemy; her Cross-Fleet effect is triggered when the flagship fires her first Salvo/Airstrike, consuming all stacks of No Mercy, and slowing all on-screen enemies by 20% for 2 seconds if 3-5 stacks, by 60% for 2 seconds if 6-8 stacks, and Stopping all on-screen enemies for 2 seconds if 9 stacks. Her third Skill Buffs her AVI/ACC, Buffs her RLD if she has a Dive Bomber Equipped, and if your Airspace Control is greater than Air Denial, Buffs RN Vanguard ships' EVA/AA and reduces the damage RN Main Fleet ships take from aircraft.


The greater variety of RN Main Fleet - it has a number of both battleships and carriers, where Iron Blood only has a couple of 'good' carriers and only a few more total - mean that there is much more that goes into the making of the Main Fleet. Rather than simply using a few 'better' ships, it is possible to make fleets designed around a particular purpose: for example, using several of the Slow/Stop ships in a destroyer-based fleet to ensure that torpedoes can be more on-target than usual, or stacking Healers (Unicorn/Perseus/Jervis/Vampire).

Queen Elizabeth is usually going to be a significant asset to any fleet due to the universal Buff she provides, but she is not necessary to form a very powerful fleet. Trying to shoehorn her in may actually be somewhat detrimental, as while she is affected by her own Skill, she still has relatively low stats and is strengthened by including Dido due to the cruiser's Skill. Dido is also not a bad ship, but using her to boost QE's performance means that two of your six ships have been chosen, and that may affect the fleet's performance. Importantly, QE is not a ship that can easily be built 'around,' unlike, say, Formidable with her Stop, or Vanguard's buff to BB/BC damage; she simply improves the other ships on the field, which makes her never necessary.

So, if you wanted to build a fleet focused around Burning enemies, then two ships immediately come to mind: Indomitable, who has two Skills with a guaranteed Burn (one timed, one based on her Airstrike), and Belfast, who is empowered by and against Burning enemies and has slightly better chances of inflicting a Burn. Drake, as well, has a slightly higher chance to inflict Burns with her special Ammo, and is a generally good ship. No other RN ship has a direct Burn-related Skill, but battleships have a pretty good chance of inflicting a Burn with HE guns, so KGV - who wants to use a particular HE gun, has a very quick first Salvo, and gets a RLD boost when sortied with several RN ships - is a good choice, as is Hood, who can guarantee a significant RLD boost to the Main Fleet, increasing the cycle time of Indomitable's guaranteed Burns. The final Vanguard is a wild card; it could be Plymouth, with her MGM +2 giving her lots of chances to stack a Burn while improving the raw damage of KGV/Hood (if one of them is your Flagship), or it might be Cheshire or one of the Didos for AA or general use.

Several RN main fleet ships have Slowing effects as well: Duke of York (guaranteed, timed barrage hit), Monarch (chance, on fire), Centaur (guaranteed, special airstrike hits), Ark Royal (guaranteed, on airstrike), and of course Formidable and Implacable can freeze enemies entirely. Duke of York has another Skill that increases the amount of damage enemies hit by her main guns take, and Ark Royal can temporarily increase the amount of damage destroyers and RN vanguard ships deal, which can lead to devastating torpedo runs with the right timing.

On the other side, Sirius synergizes with carriers, Buffing their AVI and Hit Rate against destroyers and cruisers and having her FP/TRP/RLD Buffed for each carrier. This is a case where Queen Elizabeth would potentially be more effective than a third carrier, at least in terms of Buffs: her boost is stronger than what a third carrier would give to Sirius, and her boost stacks with Sirius's and provides more stat Buffs to the two carriers. Her presence would also give the Main Fleet a defensive screen beyond the Vanguard, as well. And if Dido comes along to assist QE, then her Skill will also further boost Sirius. Curlew would be a useful third vanguard, as she improves the damage of CV/CVL. Theseus and Perseus could make for an effective anti-mob fleet, while Ark Royal could pair with Formidable to torpedo a boss.

Plymouth, of course, can make targets more susceptible to damage from a Flagship BB/BC/BBV. The most natural candidate is probably Warspite, with the highest native FP among RN BB/BCs, as well as very high Luck and Hit stats. Vanguard can also fire a barrage that increases damage taken from BB/BCs, potentially making her a very effective support, especially as she has a Reload Buff to help ensure she finishes reloading before the flagship. Duke of York could be a useful third Main Fleet due to her Slow and the increased damage enemies are forced to take. Curacoa or Cheshire could be useful vanguard ships, if there are carriers; otherwise, Belfast and/or Edinburgh - especially if your BBs are using HE guns, due to the former's pyromania and the latter's ability to inflict Armor Break - can be quite helpful.
 
Plymouth, of course, can make targets more susceptible to damage from a Flagship BB/BC/BBV. The most natural candidate is probably Warspite
From what I've seen in other people's fleets in QE Meta's showdown, the most common choice for Plymouth's buff is Musashi, followed by New Jersey. Sure that's not a single faction fleet, but for characters without strong, faction-specific skills there's no mechanical benefit to using a single faction fleet. I'm quite fond of my "America rules the skies" fleet and occasionally run a "Britania rules the mob fleets" team for the heck of it, but it's not actually the best use for some of the characters I toss into those fleets.

That said, there's very little content that's hard enough to warrant multiple well optimized, end game fleets. Even the monthly hard mode Arbiter showdowns don't always require four optimized fleets. I've personally never managed hard mode with less than three fleets, but TBH I wouldn't be surprised if some people have managed to pull off one-fleet-kills.
 
Related to single-faction fleets and on a less serious note, have some suggestions for historically-inspired meme fleets:

Task Force 34 is Here!:
Main fleet:
  • Washington (flagship)
  • New Jersey
  • Alabama
Alternate main fleet member: Iowa, if we ever get her.
Vanguard:
  • New Orleans
  • Biloxi
  • Wichita
Alternative vanguard options: Bailey, Vincennes*, Juneau**
*Standing in for CL-64 Vincennes
**Standing in for DD-537 The Sullivans

Sink the Yamato:
Alternate name: Ten-go Boom!
Main fleet:
Your choice of: Hornet II, Wasp*, Enterprise, Essex, Bunker Hill, Bataan, Yorktown II, Intrepid, Langley II, Independence
*CV-7 Wasp is a stand-in for CV-18 Wasp
I think the most historically accurate would be:
  • Bunker Hill (flagship)
  • Hornet II
  • Essex
but it's hard to pin down for certain. CV-10 Yorktown participated towards the end, but from what I've read the first wave was from the sub-groups of the task force that include the three carriers I've listed.
You could also add in any USN fast battleship except Alabama or Iowa (if we ever get her), literally all the other USN fast battleships that saw service were in the task force, though they didn't actually participate in the battle.
Vanguard:
There's too many ships to list, especially when most of the destroyers (45 Fletchers and 18 Sumners) aren't in game yet. See here for the list I'm pulling from. Notable options include Baltimore and San Diego, though St. Louis and Indianapolis were present. Vincennes & Astoria could be used as stand-ins for the CL named after them that were present. If we ever get Alaska or Guam they're both historically accurate options.
I think the mechanically strongest vanguard that's roughly historically accurate would be:
  • Baltimore
  • Your choice of Sumner that's currently in-game
  • San Diego retrofit
If we ever get Alaska or Guam, that would become:
  • Alaska/Guam
  • San Diego retrofit / your choice of Sumner
  • Baltimore
because Baltimore isn't quite durable enough to be a good main-tank, but her carrier buff should be useful. None of the Sumners that were in the task force are current in-game, so far as I can see, and none of the Fletchers we have that were historically in the task force are worth using AFAIK, so for now I'd just use one of the better Sumners that we actually have as a stand-in.

I had wanted to also do a "Cunningham!" Royal Navy fleet or two staring Warspite, but getting the "Sink the Yamato" fleet list together took way longer than I expected. I'll see about taking a crack at that some other time.
 
Last edited:
Plymouth, of course, can make targets more susceptible to damage from a Flagship BB/BC/BBV. The most natural candidate is probably Warspite, with the highest native FP among RN BB/BCs, as well as very high Luck and Hit stats.
I mean if you wanna faction lock yourself like that then sure. But Musashi and New Jersey are both way better options if you're willing to flex on that.

Even the monthly hard mode Arbiter showdowns don't always require four optimized fleets. I've personally never managed hard mode with less than three fleets, but TBH I wouldn't be surprised if some people have managed to pull off one-fleet-kills.
I usually need 2 fleets vs the hardmode Arbiter. As far as one-shots of said boss type, here's one (not mine though) from 11 months ago, though it is in fairness a manual clear:

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w_0wh5ORnbk

Probably possible to do better now, between Musashi, da Vinci, dev30 Plymouth being something which now actually exists in the wild, that sort of thing.
 
I usually need 2 fleets vs the hardmode Arbiter. As far as one-shots of said boss type, here's one (not mine though) from 11 months ago, though it is in fairness a manual clear:

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w_0wh5ORnbk

Probably possible to do better now, between Musashi, da Vinci, dev30 Plymouth being something which now actually exists in the wild, that sort of thing.

I'd imaging it's possible to do even better now. Even without Plymouth, Musashi is kind of a monster, if she can land her hits. For example, here's my new personal best for a support run (no artillery) on QE Meta:
It's a bit annoying that Musashi's not all that good at actually hitting things compared to NJ, so in my experience she usually needs Vanguard's UR equipment to do particularly well. On the plus side, her lighting bolts deal a stupidly huge amount of damage (up to ~23k on crits) compared to NJ's special barrage, so her average damage per run seems to be higher than NJ's.

I think this fleet would probably do better if I could swap Anchorage for Plymouth and use Plymouth's guns on Helena Meta to kill the spectral knights faster, but I only have Plymouth at dev 21 and don't have her guns, so this is probably the best I'm going to manage anytime soon. This is only a personal record, I've seen a few other people do better, including one person do a one-run-kill, but it still seems like a respectable personal best.
 
So, CN Stream was on last night. We are getting Bismark Zwei as the UR for the coming event, A Nelson Retrofit, but the real big news is that Royal Fortune's faction will get some new ships, and one of them will be a UR!

EDIT: Also, it appears we are getting a META sub as a gacha in the coming event?

Quoting from reddit
Here's a short summary of the more relevant stuff:

New KMS Event:

UR Bismarck Zwei

SSR CL

SR CVL Jade

SR DD

U-556 META

Swimsuit Skins.

Future Content:

Vestal META for Cruise Pass.

Kaga Skin for Cruise Pass.

Algerie META for next META showdown.

Nelson Retrofit.

Taihou-Chan.

Oath Skins for Champagne, Harbin and Hermione.

Concert Skins.

New Equipment: UR twin 100mm DD gun, Gold fw190 and Gold ASW, 533mm Torps.

SOS Missions will be removed.

More tries will be added for the weekly Submarine Supply Line Challenge.

Operation Siren will have all items available in shop permanently instead of rotation.

Getting 200 Points for META Fights will be made easier.

Can retire more ships at once.

Easier Gear Retirement.

New feature to raise child version of Tb.

Reworked end-screens and water effects.

Gear presets will be available which can be shared with other players.

Challenge Mode will return with better rewards.

Another Collab rerun later this year.

META Ships will now give Fleet Tech.

A New Faction will be introduced later this year.
 
Last edited:
META Ships will now give Fleet Tech.
Finally! I can understand crossover characters not giving fleet tech bonuses, but metas not giving any was annoying because it made investing in most of them pointless. Especially the cruise mission metas, none of whom are particularly good AFAIK.

I wonder who the UR Tempestia ship will be. I could see USS Constitution being an UR sailing frigate, but she'd be Eagle Union. I'm sure there are plenty of famous pirate ships to chose from, I just don't seem to know enough about the golden age of piracy to know of any.

Edit: I'm a bit surprised they didn't mention PR6. It looks like PR5 was released on July 14 2022 and PR4 on July 8 2021, so I was expecting PR6 to be on the horizon. I wonder if it's not happening, or just didn't get mentioned.
 
Last edited:
Holy month-long delay to replies. Thanks, IRL.

It's a bit annoying that Musashi's not all that good at actually hitting things compared to NJ
Jersey's got built-in gun spread reduction as part of her skill kit, which is why there's a discrepancy there and thus why Musashi usually ends up using the AFCT over any other BB.

I think this fleet would probably do better if I could swap Anchorage for Plymouth and use Plymouth's guns on Helena Meta to kill the spectral knights faster, but I only have Plymouth at dev 21 and don't have her guns, so this is probably the best I'm going to manage anytime soon. This is only a personal record, I've seen a few other people do better, including one person do a one-run-kill, but it still seems like a respectable personal best.
I was getting pretty comparable results using Musashi/Vanguard/Souryuu META and Agir/Shimakaze/Plymouth. Even locked at lvl120 I found Souryuu META consistently wiped the adds on a single airstrike so there was very little damage loss. I might've gotten better results from using New Jersey instead of Vanguard, though I stopped bothering with the META fights once I got all the crystals to fully limit break QE META. In fairness that's partly because I'm super salty about how you can't refight META bosses whose point ladders you already maxed out, but I digress.

but the real big news is that Royal Fortune's faction will get some new ships, and one of them will be a UR!
Do you have a source for the bolded? I don't tune into the streams because I'm a dirty peasant who speaks only English and bad English, but the sailboat faction getting a UR would be... a thing, I guess.

Especially the cruise mission metas, none of whom are particularly good AFAIK.
Oh boy. Yeah they're all pretty terrible unfortunately. To be fair that's a problem the showdown/OS META ships have had too, most of them aren't great either and honestly U-556 META is probably the best META ship we've ever gotten since she's probably a bit between Leonardo da Vinci and U-47 in terms of DPS, though leaning a bit more towards the former since her DPS buffs are just way more consistent than U-47's.

so I was expecting PR6 to be on the horizon. I wonder if it's not happening, or just didn't get mentioned.
I don't recall when we first got teasers for PR5 last year, but we still have about 5-6 weeks minimum before it would drop and I would lean more towards a mid-late July release rather than early July. I'm rather doubtful that it won't happen, it would be a pretty major deviation from expectations.

Or at least I'm doubtful right now. Maybe it'll be more concerning by mid-late June.
 
Do you have a source for the bolded? I don't tune into the streams because I'm a dirty peasant who speaks only English and bad English, but the sailboat faction getting a UR would be... a thing, I guess.

Not too sure now about it being the sailboat faction, but they did say we are getting a new faction towards the end of the year, and that said faction will get a UR. Current thought is that they are finally going to unite the French boats.
 
Back
Top