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Ashes to Stars: A Starfaring Quest

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That's ~45 power total, so I'm inclined to say Transmitter is a priority (raw data is better in our hands than super-refined data in a probe that might not make its way home), followed by Radar (mostly because lighter), and then Armor (weapons seem... overly aggressive when we don't know what the threat is or if it even exists)
 
We have near maximum results from the Fusion reactor's power rating + a pair of solar arrays, so we can afford the power hogs if not necessarily the space hogs.

[ ] 0: Advanced Ground-Penetrating Radar
[ ] 1: Integrated Computer System
[ ] 2: Armor the Ship
[ ] 2: Fully Militarize the Ship

Maximize the ship's mission profile since you voted for a single-purpose ship in the first place and we can afford it. Either armor the ship so it can live long enough to transmit useful data if attacked or suffering an accident, or militarize it all the way for increasing the number of circumstances it can survive outright.

Frankly, I'm inclined for full militarization - if the only thing between us and disappearing probes is a single planet, then hanging around in orbit blasting large quantities of energetic data for long periods of time seems an excellent way to lure in whatever predators or natural phenomena are screwing with us.
 
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[X] 0: Advanced Ground-Penetrating Radar
[X] 1: Integrated Computer System
[X] 2: Fully Militarize the Ship

Militarize the ship for space rocks, integrated computer so loss of signal doesn't effect operations and ground penetrating radar just in case someone lives there and we don't want to start a war.
 
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@StriderInCosmos One thing I would request; unless it's on a white background, please do not use dark blue coloration for anything. If I wasn't meticulously scanning the diagram you gave us, I would have never even noticed there was a box of flavor text in the bottom right corner.
 
If we hold off on militarizing the survey ship we're currently designing, will we be able to armor and upgun other ships in future stages of lunar exploration? This ship isn't supposed to do much to Husena directly other than stare very hard, so I'm not sure turning this into a gunship is the best use of resources.
 
[ ] 0: Advanced Ground-Penetrating Radar
[ ] 1: High-Power Transmitter
[ ] 2: Armor the Ship
[ ] 2: Abstain from Militarizing

We have the power budget but have been taking the heavy options so far, so it makes sense to take the powerful radar and transmitter. At that point I don't think it makes much sense to militarize the ship. I don't think whatever is up there is going to shoot at us just for scanning it with radar, that seems more likely to happen if we physically probe it. We don't know what we would need to shoot at, so we wouldn't know what kind of guns to bring, so they make even less sense than armor.
 
Right now, we have zero idea about where to punch with our penetrator probes. If we guess wrong, that's a potential dig site (or habitat) destroyed, and unsalvageable. But. The basic GPR and Probes are listed as not nearly good enough as the other two overpowered options alone. So, we either need a topographical map ASAP, risk destroying what we want to research (and making enemies) or we do an all purpose "Good Enough" without fine details. I'm half tempted to go with the already "matured" tech combo just to get a half decent map and targets for follow up landing.

*Sighs* that said... while I want to take the opportunity to train up how to smush as much computer into a prototype vessel as possible. It's implied that we're already looking at using this ship to further explore our system once it's main mission here is done. So... we kinda need to take transmitter so that our group can start developing the transmitter tech whilst we can still modify it. It's looking like Menthenelis hasn't even done basic tight beam radio communications research, given the large gap it's complaining about. That's a gap that only general broadcast radio transmission operates at. Tight beam is... I forget how much faster, and has a higher data transmission capacity at less loss. Course this somewhat implies that Menthenelis doesn't even have cell phones which is an outgrowth of said tight beam transmission research. The only thing that would be even faster, and still within technological reach is laser transmission, it'd be entirely pioneered tech, but it's through put and speed would be unmatched, and at these small inner stellar distances, for all practicable purposes, instant.

So, I'm going to have to go with transmitter on this ship.


As for militarization... part of me wants to say "on the test bed ship? Why?" But, Menthenelis, is apparently taking the waste not want not approach, and damn the methodically progression. Apparently actually learning how to build and approach things is not fast enough for an exciting quest. So, yeah, we need to at least armor the ship since it's apparently going to be doing fly bys of our paranoid neighbors that at least have orbital weapons platforms. With a not improper argument for full armoring of the vessel. The question is how much.

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Steven Kodaly said:
If we hold off on militarizing the survey ship we're currently designing, will we be able to armor and upgun other ships in future stages of lunar exploration? This ship isn't supposed to do much to Husena directly other than stare very hard, so I'm not sure turning this into a gunship is the best use of resources.
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Short answer. Yes. Long answer. Once this ship is done staring at our moon very hard, it's going to go poke our militant, paranoid, neighbors with a stick to see what happens. We won't get to let this one sit around while we build a purpose built military assault craft to go cow our paranoid neighbors into settling down so that our spy ship can snoop around the system unharassed by them. Apparently being sensible about build up is unconducive to quick and exciting questing. And Strider is already getting bored with the concept of running this quest because it isn't exciting enough.
 
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[ ] 0: Advanced Ground-Penetrating Radar

[ ] 1: Integrated Computer System
[ ] 1: High-Power Transmitter

[ ] 2: Armor the Ship

I'm fine with armoring the ship as well as the radar option. Not sure yet about the middle option though.
 
WCSII said:
*A lot of very insightful text concerning the quest*
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Brother... look, I'm going to fully admit, you're thinking about the deep mechanics of this part of the quest far more than I have. I'm largely going off of vibes at this point in the quest, and while I certainly appreciate the amount I've learned from your posts, I'm by no means as scientifically minded as you seem to be.

I'm not gonna say 'lay it off', because I'm frankly glad that someone's taking my quest so seriously as you are. But we're early on yet in a rather 'soft' sci-fi setting, and I have my plans for how things are (in a broad sense) meant to work out. So... stay tuned, I guess is the way to finish this post.
 
Personally I would go for the mix probe/radar set, integrated computer, and armor. This is ultimately a research and reconnaissance vessel so it is very important to protect and preserve the data inside. The high power transmission is too easily disrupted by outside forces not to mention the time lag while the computer systems can link up which provides a great deal of flexibility. Tackling multiple angles to achieve a better understanding is also why I am leaning towards the hybrid set as well. As this is a research vessel we don't need nor want weaponry installed yet.
 
[ ] 0: Advanced Ground-Penetrating Radar
[ ] 1: High-Power Transmitter
[ ] 2: Armor the Ship
[ ] 2: Abstain from Militarizing

I want to say use the big radar to take advantage of all the power we got, and then the transmitter in order to save some space for better habitation so that the craft can stay comfortably on station longer to fully sweep the area like the update says, as well as not having the increased power cost be that much of an issue.

Armor or Abstain on military equipment IMO right now, I don't think we need anything more than that yet.
 
WCSII said:
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If you want better probes and ground mapping, keep in mind that the vote was for multiple single-purpose ships. We can easily do an excavation/probe/maybe mining or transport ship that will complement this one, and even get extra bennys in the process. As it is, GPR will easily get you the topographical map you want - that's literally why GPR exists, to detail the surveyed area in excruciating detail beyond what mere surface level examination can provide.

Or we can crunch numbers and send smaller data packets back, and link up with other ships to further reduce the amount of raw data needed. As for tech advancement, Strider already addressed that so I have nothing to add.

Methodical progression and waste not want not are not mutually exclusive. In fact, the two are inextricably intertwined because you can't be methodical if you are being wasteful. Whether or not we militarize this ship is a question of cost vs benefits.

Is there some evidence that Strider is bored already? Or are you inserting other QMs/questors you're dissatisfied with?

Andres Marrero said:
As this is a research vessel we don't need nor want weaponry installed yet.
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We want whatever allows the ship to complete the mission and come home unharmed or at least intact, regardless of what the ship's supposed mission actually is. Whether or not that means weapons in this case is a very explicit "We don't know, because we haven't recovered any lost probes to figure out why they all unanimously die within a certain area".
 
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CanYouMeme said:
We want whatever allows the ship to complete the mission and come home unharmed or at least intact, regardless of what the ship's supposed mission actually is. Whether or not that means weapons in this case is a very explicit "We don't know, because we haven't recovered any lost probes to figure out why they all unanimously die within a certain area".
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I agree with you there which is why I want to go for the combination of scan/probe hybrid, internalized computer system, and armor.

We don't want to unnecessarily antagonize these folks beyond what they seemingly are of which the placement of weapons may doand complete militarization likely will. The high power transmission is just too easy to interfere with and we ultimately want detailed and preserved information. So the combination of armor and internalized computer systems will get us better data and make it more difficult to interfere with that data while the probe/scan set gives us both close up physical and distant non-physical options for gathering data thus allowing us to obtain a more complete picture. The goal is to gather data in the best way we can, make sure the quality of the data is the best it can be, and safeguard that data as best as we can.

It also helps that internalized computer systems not only allow our ships to connect making things much more efficient but also allows our ships to better respond to changing circumstances such as unknown EM fields or a hostile population on an alien planet.
 
[X] 0: Advanced Ground-Penetrating Radar

[X] 1: Integrated Computer System

[X] 2: Armor the Ship

my vote, this is a specialist lets make it good at staring at things from far away, processing what it sees, and keeping its crew and instruments safe while it does so.

poking the science with a stick comes later with another ship.
 
Andres Marrero said:
We don't want to unnecessarily antagonize these folks beyond what they seemingly are of which the placement of weapons may doand complete militarization likely will.
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This sounds like a blind assumption where you're substituting what you think and feel into a void because that makes them fit into your plans more conveniently.

How do we know the probe bays won't be interpreted as offensive warhead deployers, or something equally noxious since they clearly have no hesitation (or are perhaps incapable of refraining from) "destroying" them as soon as they get within reach?
Will the mere act of coming closer with actual ships instead of or in addition to probes and scanning something closer to them be interpreted as spying, or recon for an invasion force?

Andres Marrero said:
I agree with you there which is why I want to go for the combination of scan/probe hybrid, internalized computer system, and armor.
...
The high power transmission is just too easy to interfere with and we ultimately want detailed and preserved information. So the combination of armor and internalized computer systems will get us better data and make it more difficult to interfere with that data while the probe/scan set gives us both close up physical and distant non-physical options for gathering data thus allowing us to obtain a more complete picture. The goal is to gather data in the best way we can, make sure the quality of the data is the best it can be, and safeguard that data as best as we can.

It also helps that internalized computer systems not only allow our ships to connect making things much more efficient but also allows our ships to better respond to changing circumstances such as unknown EM fields or a hostile population on an alien planet.
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Who says the scan/probe hybrid will be overall superior, since part of the write in is that both elements are inferior versions of the specialists? And if best quality data is going to be the purpose, wouldn't we want two separate specialist ships, one for probes and one for sensors?

If this was a larger generalist ship where the space for both best versions was available, I'd be voting for both in a heartbeat. But specialist ships was selected, so let's stay on task instead of mission creeping so we can leverage the benefits of specialization to the maximum.

[X] 0: Advanced Ground-Penetrating Radar
[X] 1: Integrated Computer System
[X] 2: Fully Militarize the Ship

I'm fine with Armoring too, but I flipped a coin and heads came up, so mil I shall vote.

Also, moratorium's up as of three-ish minutes ago.

For reference work, the Fusion Reactor gives us 40 PU (38 Base + 2) and the Solar Arrays grant another 10 when deployed (5 each). With GPR (10) and ICS (8), that leaves us with 22/40+10D power left over when the panels are out as they will be when scanning.
 
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[X] 0: Advanced Ground-Penetrating Radar
Prefer one of the Radar choice, since it means that a mission can continue to gather more information as long as it lasts, while the probes have a limited number of 'ammo' while also potentially causing damage to the target sites.

[X] 1: Integrated Computer System
Having on-site data analysis will be useful as missions take place farther and farther away from Menthenelis. Plus, the description of the fate of the S'Tal-Munthi-6 probes implies a possible interference with long-range transmissions, so this approach has a higher chance of success.

[X] 2: Armor the Ship
Armor might be useful, either against possible hostile action 6 as well as environmental hazards. But I'm not sure how useful weapons actually would be; if there is really a hostile actor on S'tal-Munthi-6 that with anti-orbital capabilities, they would probably outnumber and outgun the Lunar Seer, in which case any weapons would just be extra weight and cost at best, or potentially provocative at worst. Except maybe purely defensive weapons like a point defense DEW, but the option doesn't say what weapons they're proposing.
 
Model DC.14F said:
Except maybe purely defensive weapons like a point defense DEW, but the option doesn't say what weapons they're proposing.
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Armoring and weapons are going to be a separate vote if selected, as Strider said in a post on the previous page (last post before changeover). If we vote just Armoring, then we won't have weapons at all.

Also, @StriderInCosmos , I noticed the threadmark for the most recent one is listed as Chapter 3, as is the one before.
 
[X] 0: Advanced Ground-Penetrating Radar
[X] 1: Integrated Computer System
[X] 2: Armor the Ship

Sounds good. Torn a bit about 2, but..
 
[X] 0: Advanced Ground-Penetrating Radar
[X] 1: High-Power Transmitter
[X] 2: Armor the Ship

The radar wants extra time on station to scan the area, so let's go for the smaller transmitter to keep more space for longer term habitation.
 
CanYouMeme said:
This sounds like a blind assumption where you're substituting what you think and feel into a void because that makes them fit into your plans more conveniently.

How do we know the probe bays won't be interpreted as offensive warhead deployers, or something equally noxious since they clearly have no hesitation (or are perhaps incapable of refraining from) "destroying" them as soon as they get within reach?
Will the mere act of coming closer with actual ships instead of or in addition to probes and scanning something closer to them be interpreted as spying, or recon for an invasion force?
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It isn't as much blind assumption as you presume. If they are actively destroying probes then weapons would likely be taken as a threat. Without weapons our ships are less likely to be interpret as such. With the probe/scan hybrid set our ships will be able to choose which method is more suitable. If they are destroying physical probes then long range scans would do. If the dead probes are due to some kind of EM Field then physical probes would be better. It gives our ships options to choose the best course of action which is always important.


CanYouMeme said:
Who says the scan/probe hybrid will be overall superior, since part of the write in is that both elements are inferior versions of the specialists? And if best quality data is going to be the purpose, wouldn't we want two separate specialist ships, one for probes and one for sensors?

If this was a larger generalist ship where the space for both best versions was available, I'd be voting for both in a heartbeat. But specialist ships was selected, so let's stay on task instead of mission creeping so we can leverage the benefits of specialization to the maximum.
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It allows our ships to approach information gathering from multiple angles. There are some things that probably won't show up on long range scans alone and would require a closer, physical presence, and sometimes the closer physical presence would not give an accurate picture because what they are looking at is spread out. By using the two together we ultimately are able to get a clearer picture by catching what we otherwise would have missed.

[X] 0: Mixed Probe/Radar Unit

[X] 1: Integrated Computer System

[X] 2: Armor the Ship
 
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[X] 0: Advanced Ground-Penetrating Radar

[X] 1: Integrated Computer System

[X] 2: Armor the Ship

I think I'd like to give this ship a little autonomy.
 
CanYouMeme said:
If you want better probes and ground mapping, keep in mind that the vote was for multiple single-purpose ships. We can easily do an excavation/probe/maybe mining or transport ship that will complement this one, and even get extra bennys in the process. As it is, GPR will easily get you the topographical map you want - that's literally why GPR exists, to detail the surveyed area in excruciating detail beyond what mere surface level examination can provide.

Or we can crunch numbers and send smaller data packets back, and link up with other ships to further reduce the amount of raw data needed. As for tech advancement, Strider already addressed that so I have nothing to add.

Methodical progression and waste not want not are not mutually exclusive. In fact, the two are inextricably intertwined because you can't be methodical if you are being wasteful. Whether or not we militarize this ship is a question of cost vs benefits.

Is there some evidence that Strider is bored already? Or are you inserting other QMs/questors you're dissatisfied with?


We want whatever allows the ship to complete the mission and come home unharmed or at least intact, regardless of what the ship's supposed mission actually is. Whether or not that means weapons in this case is a very explicit "We don't know, because we haven't recovered any lost probes to figure out why they all unanimously die within a certain area".
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As for both AGPR vs. GPR/Penetrators, and transmitter vs. computer. That was me operating under the mistaken assumption that we'd actually be developing tech, instead of simply manifesting and applying it as we gain it. For sake of ease of questing.

Course, we then have Strider telling me to chill and just go with it. *snip, was told was rude much. Sorry.*

As for the boredom bit. Strider mentioned that they were struggling with writers block, seemingly tried to cover up their admission by mentioning sports season; and then in the update straight up implied "Tech progression? What's that? So, anyways as soon as you've poked at your moon, with a stick; we're totally going to go poke at your paranoid neighbors. With a stick. Just to see what happens." It may be me projecting. But it certainly came across as Strider barely not affecting a bored tone declaring "bored now."


. . . . ... Then Strider told me to chill. This quest is all about vibe. And why so serious about science voodoo? That I was starting to harsh their mellow.

So... I honestly don't know, now, if they were being bored... or if it was a... form, of writers block as they said.


But either way, I'm going to have to bow out for a while just see what sort of quest Strider intends on running. Because any connection to causality, by Strider's own admission, is tenuous at best. And with Sci-Fi, soft or hard, not including cause and effect... breaks immersion fairly definitively for me.
 
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WCSII said:
Tech progression? What's that? So, anyways as soon as you've poked at your moon, with a stick; we're totally going to go poke at your paranoid neighbors. With a stick. Just to see what happens
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I never intended for it to come across as 'we're going to go from the moon in orbit of our planet to the world we've seen devour satellites'. The intention was for military minded personnel to suggest additions to the vessel in question as a just in case the world was more than just a tarpit for probes and data.

As for the rest of your post... perhaps it was unwise of me to jump into questing, especially an original setting's quest, without more preparation in mind. I'll have to think over things for a little while.
 
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