Ashes to Stars: A Starfaring Quest

[X] Design multiple, objective-focused ships to add redundancy to the mission (Starting Size: Small). Which objective gets focused on?

Let's build some isolated prototyping builds before doing a generalist.
 
[X] Design multiple, objective-focused ships to add redundancy to the mission (Starting Size: Small). Which objective gets focused on?

I think I'd prefer generalist, but let's start small.
 
[X] Design a single, generalist ship to complete the mission all at once (Starting Size: Medium).
 
[X] Design a single, generalist ship to complete the mission all at once (Starting Size: Medium).

future proofing, build a big engine efficient generalist with some lander small craft, means we can then swap out the small craft for prospectors/miners when we get around to the asteroid belt.
 
[X] Design multiple, objective-focused ships to add redundancy to the mission (Starting Size: Small). Which objective gets focused on?
 
[X] Design multiple, objective-focused ships to add redundancy to the mission (Starting Size: Small).
-[X] Scan area objective
 
I think a generalist ship is better, because it means we only have to design one ship instead of multiple.
 
[X] Design a single, generalist ship to complete the mission all at once (Starting Size: Medium)
 
[X] Design multiple, objective-focused ships to add redundancy to the mission (Starting Size: Small). Which objective gets focused on?
-[X] Habitation/Transport Capsule, based around transporting astronauts in (relative) safety and comfort
-[X] Scientific Probe Ship for scanning and data collection

Large problem with a generalist ship is that ALL the tech is largely prototype, with few being production quality (non mature)

This means that the idea of a generalist starting anywhere in the medium cat hull size is a pipe dream. Hell, specialist type ships are also largely being overly optimistic at being "small" sized. When a basic hab module would easily run low end of medium with little to no crew comforts. Up to low end of large with crew comforts and moderate personnel gain. And that's just making a space rated habitat that can land and lift off, with a maybe coupling mechanism for link up with other lander specialist units.

Example, cargo specialists will need automation, good luck putting that into anything other than high end medium, with maybe half volume of space for actual cargo. For a short duration mission such as this is expected to be, that wouldn't be bad. Anything longer and a cargo specialist will have to start at the low end large just for base setup over a month plus time but less than three. Supplies takes up more space than you'd think, anything that can't be dry stored will also require refrigeration, which takes up space. You might be thinking something like a 3 meter cube is HUGE, counter point... ISS general use modules start six by three metric cube. With a few being as big as 4x9. Unless Strider comes out and says that commercially available tech is 100+ years in advanced to our current cutting edge. You need to think in terms of current Earth tech Space capabilities.

Low end Large (15x15x15 metric volume) being able to hab 10 to 15 personal with some creature comforts, 7 if transportable under it's own power; back to 10-15 if at the higher end (20x20x20 metric volume) of large, and transportable under it's own power. And those are just cargo and habitation. Specialist laboratories, would start at the low end of large for tow and drop, low end of massive for self propulsion. For basic science. High end of respective sizes and propulsive states for better than basic, but still not advanced, sciences. IF one doesn't mind being cramped and ONLY able to science in space MAYBE high end of medium. Specimen/artifact containment is modified cargo, but would require special tech for, meaning it starts at high end of large and only increases as substance/specimens are secured. Meaning it can easily require high end of massive, and just as easily crawl into enormous.


We just aren't getting a generalist in anything less than enormous, and it'd barely be able to do more than transport and fundamental sciences in space. And yes, a specialist scanner, that doesn't even land, will take up at least high end of medium with propulsion. If we want more than two hot bunking and being able to do orbital surveys over a length of time, then it'll need high end of large for crew, and one or two special "scanners"

We just can't do a generalist at this time, we're going to need to do specialists to figure out basic techs, figure out how to miniaturize them, and figure out how to space save. Once we get some experience and figure out some advancements then we can try a generalist and maybe it won't go over budget by four to seven times the initial outlay.

{Edit}To put it into perspective. Our modern day Space shuttles tip in at the middle to high volume of Large in Metric Volume by Strider's scaling system. The corporate shuttles that are trying to include just the bare basics are still in the high end medium by volume, with some on the low end of large. Small is a current day satellite, with some maneuvering thrust. Maybe some solar panels in the 5 metric cube volume range. These two examples are why I'm moderately certain that we're working with modern era equivalent space tech. {/Edit}

Now. I might be talking out my ass. And Strider just didn't mean to convey the impression that we're running late 90's space tech, but are working with 2090's production tech, and cracked the artificial gravity secret, with a working Helion type commercial fussor. IF so, then yes, you can down grade all paranoid panic sizes by one grade. (High large become high medium, etc.) But, even working with current era space tech, we'd still require those panic sizes as a starting point.
 
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Current Tech Level Info
Now. I might be talking out my ass. And Strider just didn't mean to convey the impression that we're running late 90's space tech, but are working with 2090's production tech, and cracked the artificial gravity secret, with a working Helion type commercial fussor. IF so, then yes, you can down grade all paranoid panic sizes by one grade. (High large become high medium, etc.) But, even working with current era space tech, we'd still require those panic sizes as a starting point.

The current tech paradigm is largely near-future tech (compared to our day and age), and there is a level of miniaturization and automation that is in advance of our own. Menthelenis hasn't cracked artificial grav-tech, and fusion is still in its early stages of exploration. I'm also well aware that my current numbers in terms of ship sizes might need some adjustment, so any advice and guidance on that front so that we can get ahead of any resizing we need before we start laying down actual hulls would be much appreciated. This system hasn't been used for anything before, and ironing out any kinks so that we can progress smoothly is my highest priority after storytelling.

Also, allow me to share a portion of my Tech Level scale with you:

TL0AncientEnough understanding to knap rocks and start fires. The higher levels of this TL go into roughly Bronze to Iron Age.
TL1MedievalThis TL generally has a good grasp of metalworking and architecture, with sailing ships the most advanced form of transportation. The higher levels of this TL can claim some internal combustion tech.
TL2Early IndustrialIndustry begins to take advantage of fossil or sufficiently powerful biofuels. Rudimentary land vehicles begin to come into being.
TL3Prime IndustrialVehicles begin gaining complexity, with air vehicles making their appearance, and rudimentary computers become more prolific.
TL4ModernComputing power begins to increase and integrate into regular life, with fission power undergoing continuing refinement as rudimentary space programs begin to appear.
TL5Near-FutureSpace infrastructure becomes more developed, with rudimentary outposts on nearby planetary bodies. Fusion power begins to come into its own.
TL6Fusion EraFusion power becomes prolific as rudimentary gravity manipulation starts to appear. Energy weapons become more refined, with more variants appearing.

You are currently straddling the line between Tech Levels 4 and 5, and there's plenty more beyond TL6 that lies in the theoretical at the moment.
 
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Okay, so, we're at the cusp of leaving TL4, and working on a foot hold into TL5. Meaning we're technically in the grey zone in between the two. I.E. 30 to 40 years future development of "Now" Earth. Currently listed small, even with miniaturization, would still count as artificial satellites. Current listed mediums is the smallest manned vessels this tech level could produce, and they'd still not do more than be a capsule. If linked, could be used to build a space station like [we] did for the ISS. Again, current listed large is basically our current space shuttles popularly in use by USA's NASA. [We] don't have a massive nor enormous solid space structure (if we discount the 'construct a station' ISS)

If Menthelenians can construct proper space vessels in these two ranges. Then I'd propose a two grade shift at this time. Large becomes the new small, massive the new medium and enormous the new large. With the former small and mediums becoming satellites and capsules respectively.

But, I will say this, there's a reason that IRL and Sayle use the tonnage metric for sizing issues. It's because volume doesn't quite convey either material costs or structural limitations. Mass/weight does. I... admit that I know less about the actual tonnage of the in use Space Shuttles and the like, so I don't quite know the respective mass per volumes of current equipment. Which is somewhat awkward, since pretty much anytime they're mentioned it's in their weight, and not the volume of space they take up. But, such details are available for referencing so it... should be discernable for quest use.

That said, specialized craft at the proposed metric would fit the new "small" but generalist in the new "medium" would still be overly optimistic.

As new meta materials, and building techniques improve, basically extending size ranges for all sizes should do for a good deal of future proofing sizing issues. Miniaturization would just be "we can now do this in smaller environs." Until we can actually fit a "small" vessel into a capsule sized structure. At which point could probably reclassify capsule as Miniature. To encapsulate the initial task of capsule status but could then include shuttle craft at those 'new' sizes that'd finally be smaller than "small."


Would that help? That's just what I can think of off the top of my head.
 
[X] Design multiple, objective-focused ships to add redundancy to the mission (Starting Size: Small). Which objective gets focused on?
-[X] Habitation/Transport Capsule, based around transporting astronauts in (relative) safety and comfort
-[X] Scientific Probe Ship for scanning and data collection
 
Would that help? That's just what I can think of off the top of my head.

It certainly would, and I've been working on an updated measurement system with some more concrete real-world examples to work around.

This is the updated ship size chart, and the one currently listed further upstream will be updated to reflect the changes:

Current Ship SizesSizeDisplacement Tons (dTons)
TinyAnything >8m3​>15 dTons
Small8m3​ - 850m3​16 - 400 dTons
Medium855m3​ - 1,400m3​410 - 560 dTons
Large1,450m3​ - 2,000m3​565 - 690 dTons
Massive2,050m3​ - 2,500m3​695 - 840 dTons
EnormousAnything <2,500m3​<845 dTons

With this change in sizes, the Simberlein also gets a resizing, being able to construct 2,200 m3​, a respectable amount of space, but still limiting the size of a project able to be constructed in a single go.
 
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[X] Design multiple, objective-focused ships to add redundancy to the mission (Starting Size: Small). Which objective gets focused on?
-[X] safe storage and transport of researchers and scientific equipment including drones.
-[X] deployment and retrieval of drones and researchers that doesn't disturb the surface too much.

Trying to make a ship that does everything never works out. So it is best to mech smaller ships where we can more effectively learn what works and what doesn't.
 
[X] Design multiple, objective-focused ships to add redundancy to the mission (Starting Size: Small). Which objective gets focused on?
-[X] safe storage and transport of researchers and scientific equipment including drones.
-[X] deployment and retrieval of drones and researchers that doesn't disturb the surface too much.

Trying to make a ship that does everything never works out. So it is best to mech smaller ships where we can more effectively learn what works and what doesn't.

 
[X] Design multiple, objective-focused ships to add redundancy to the mission (Starting Size: Small). Which objective gets focused on?
-[X] Habitation/Transport Capsule, based around transporting astronauts in (relative) safety and comfort
-[X] Scientific Probe Ship for scanning and data collection
 
Trying to make a ship that does everything never works out. So it is best to mech smaller ships where we can more effectively learn what works and what doesn't.
Making a ship that does two or three jobs decently well is easily within reach, and is often superior in overall mission accomplishment to a multitude of smaller ships that each do one job perfectly.

Logistics isn't just about movement of people and materials - it's about movement of information as well, and how quickly you can translate results from one to another.
 
[X] Design multiple, objective-focused ships to add redundancy to the mission (Starting Size: Small). Which objective gets focused on?
-[X] Habitation/Transport Capsule, based around transporting astronauts in (relative) safety and comfort
-[X] Scientific Probe Ship for scanning and data collection
 
I hope the distance between planets and asteroid belts in not to scale or Menthelenis and Avanthi will be in trouble
 
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