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Another start, another life (Anakin Quest) Reboot

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Skywalker_T-65 said:
As someone who has been on TFN for closer to twenty years than away from it at this point…


…yeah. Yeah. We've seen just about every argument for 'Gray' Jedi there is. And very few have ever convinced us. The *best* is 'Jedi but they don't listen to the council/can marry/have more freedom of action'.

Which isn't gray. If anything, it's Green. Hello, Corellia :V

(Less blithely: it's a Jedi. Just a Jedi who is particularly rebellious compared to the mainstream.

The other Force Sects, like the Matukai or what have you? Light Side. Maybe not Jedi, but sure as hell not Sith.)
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Just quoting this because heeeeelllloooo flashbacks today.

Also, while there is a firm Light and Dark Side in our mind, it's not Yin and Yang. Dark Side is quite explicitly 'do harm to others' and 'assert your dominance and control'. Like, it's literally a theme with Dark Siders. Control and dominance.

Also, also. The only cases of 'balancing the sides' come from RPG characters. Where you have to acknowledge people playing that way. Compare it to Jedi Academy or something, where Kyle* never hesitated to go 'this is a Bad Idea' if you pick DS powers.

*himself usually a go-to example by 'Gray' fanbois.

Revan? The same Revan who is either Dark, leaning Dark, a player controlled blank canvas, a redeemed and proper Jedi, or literally insane? That Revan?

You can maybe make an edge argument of greater emotional balance coming from accepting your negative impulses. And acknowledging they're Dark Side-temptations. Outright trying to use Dark Side abilities as a Jedi?

No. Full stop.
 
Skywalker_T-65 said:
You can maybe make an edge argument of greater emotional balance coming from accepting your negative impulses. And acknowledging they're Dark Side-temptations. Outright trying to use Dark Side abilities as a Jedi?

No. Full stop.
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Probably the best example, is the edge case that is Vapaad. Since it's foundation is tapping into the enemy's dark side power to buff the self, in other words, the ultimate anti-dark saber style. But there is one problem, even with the disconnect of only manipulating the enemies dark energy, it still makes the user vulnerable, requiring a well centered mind and will to avoid from falling. I mean, mace windu, the guy whom made it, likely mostly managed to not fall, unlike his partner, because his zeal for the republic likely provided a bulwark, a foundation that could withstand the temptations even when skirting closer than most jedi would dare to.

Which, probably enforces how bad news trying to tap directly into it yourself without intermediaries. Might be possible, but VERY risky.
 
Themarineguy said:
Which, probably enforces how bad news trying to tap directly into it yourself without intermediaries. Might be possible, but VERY risky.
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This just gave ne a terrible thought, if you had a Force Bond with a Sith or Darksider of a different flavor, could you draw on that connection to "safely" use a Dark Side technique? I want to say no, but at the same time we have seen that the uses for Force Bonds are essentially "Yes" and it only gets more "Yes" the stronger they grow.

It's probably still a bad idea, even if it's technically possible, but that's not the question being asked.
 
Kufufu said:
This just gave ne a terrible thought, if you had a Force Bond with a Sith or Darksider of a different flavor, could you draw on that connection to "safely" use a Dark Side technique? I want to say no, but at the same time we have seen that the uses for Force Bonds are essentially "Yes" and it only gets more "Yes" the stronger they grow.
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I'm hesitating because I think the emotional need for the technique would be shared between the bonded. You cannot summon the Dark Side without the emotion. In the case of a bond I would rather see the emotion travels along and everybody be united in the same state rather than both coexisting.

For me a true Force Bond between dedicated Lightsiders and Darksiders would compromise both as it would trouble the mental state needed for their techniques. I'm adamant due to Vader being unable to heal himself through the Dark Side it would happen for both sides.
 
Skywalker_T-65 said:
Also, while there is a firm Light and Dark Side in our mind, it's not Yin and Yang. Dark Side is quite explicitly 'do harm to others' and 'assert your dominance and control'. Like, it's literally a theme with Dark Siders. Control and dominance.
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I would say you need both Light and Dark to be mentally balanced, though balance might not necessarily be a 50/50 split.
 
@EyeOfSauron
sorry since the previous vote was closed I focused on the story and not on the comments.
so sorry i didn't see it. but I can assure you that's what I think that's my personal opinion,
but I know you said pretty much the same thing long before I found this quest.
So if you want I can delete my old comment or in any case modify it to remove the similarities
 
[X] Padawan of Windu: Your teacher warned you of a shatterpoint, one of the breaking points of the universe while coming here. He did not know exactly what form it would take but hints point to the glowing pyramid of power. Strike it with your lightsaber and let the situation on Kamino unravel Pay 1 Fate
 
Themarineguy said:
Probably the best example, is the edge case that is Vapaad. Since it's foundation is tapping into the enemy's dark side power to buff the self, in other words, the ultimate anti-dark saber style. But there is one problem, even with the disconnect of only manipulating the enemies dark energy, it still makes the user vulnerable, requiring a well centered mind and will to avoid from falling. I mean, mace windu, the guy whom made it, likely mostly managed to not fall, unlike his partner, because his zeal for the republic likely provided a bulwark, a foundation that could withstand the temptations even when skirting closer than most jedi would dare to.

Which, probably enforces how bad news trying to tap directly into it yourself without intermediaries. Might be possible, but VERY risky.
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Mace Windu's fighting style, aka Vapaad (an evolution of Jiyu/Form VII) doesn't so much "tap in" to the Dark Side as kind of channel it back on the other person. It's risky because you're fighting very aggressively (which is a genuine danger when your a psychic space ninja-monk-paladin tapped into an energy field that can ramp up things based on emotions), and because you're having to handle a "live wire".
 
It's just, even the vanishing examples of not evil explicitly dark side techniques that are out there are literally just "torture/mind control something that deserved it/isn't considered a valid person" or "neutral/light technique but eviler and/or extremely limited"

Like all the talk about chaos and order and balance and emotions is nice, but if the only result of balance is turmoil and if the only beauty is strife and the sole material benefit is either mind control, torture, or something that came without struggle but eviler then what's the point? Frankly, to riff le guin pain is boring, suffering is trite, and evil is banal and these things are the only benefits proposed by the dark side as it were. Hell, with dark side ideology seems to take heed that free is just another word for nothing left to lose given the freedom that it's proponents seek always seems to involve self destruction and destroying things they care for as part of the path to attain.


Anywho, moving on from the thoroughly exhausted conversation on the dark side I am absolutely ecstatic to see tatooine slave fanon in a quest and have high hopes here for endeavours in the name of liberation.
 
Alright alright tell me In what book movie comics video game or even some interview where it says the dark side is not part of the force or even that it is impossible to achieve balance .
it's fine to say that you don't agree with me and to have your own theory but give proof.
because so far you have not given any concrete example
 
Sparda demon said:
Alright alright tell me In what book movie comics video game or even some interview where it says the dark side is not part of the force or even that it is impossible to achieve balance .
it's fine to say that you don't agree with me and to have your own theory but give proof.
because so far you have not given any concrete example
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....did you ever even watch the canon movies? They never once refer to balancing the force in the sense that they balance the light and the dark, the dark side is a tumor in the force that must be excised in order for the light side (actually just the force) to return to homeostasis.
 
yes, i have watched all the canon movies.
And in none of the movies is it explicitly said that the dark side is a tumor in the force.
In all the canon movies, the jedi talk about the temptation of the dark side or the evil of the sith but in no case does it say that the dark side is not part of the force or is a tumor in the force
In fact, in episode eight, we see a mosaic where a Jedi was balanced between the two sides of the force.
now give me proof that i'm wrong to see force as yin and yang.
I have given proof with novels, video games and episodes of clone wars which prove me right.
 
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Neither side is exactly wrong in this particular case, just....
The Jedi and Sith are inherently unreliable narrators in such a topic, considering their inherent ideology holds that the other must be destroyed...

Though what balance looks like? No-one has any idea as it never is actually shown, besides little tidbits mentioned of far, far back when the jedi went by another name. Which, is little known besides mentions in legends, where they tried to maintain balance until a war thrown things out of whack enough for everything to fall apart...

Which, as a conversation point isn't exactly helped by people making OCs or SIs that can maintain balance between the two cause...
what exactly? What little we know implies that if it was possible, it would likely be very hard, and or good reason.
 
Themarineguy said:
Neither side is exactly wrong in this particular case, just....
The Jedi and Sith are inherently unreliable narrators in such a topic, considering their inherent ideology holds that the other must be destroyed...

Though what balance looks like? No-one has any idea as it never is actually shown, besides little tidbits mentioned of far, far back when the jedi went by another name. Which, is little known besides mentions in legends, where they tried to maintain balance until a war thrown things out of whack enough for everything to fall apart...

Which, as a conversation point isn't exactly helped by people making OCs or SIs that can maintain balance between the two cause...
what exactly? What little we know implies that if it was possible, it would likely be very hard, and or good reason.
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I think balance is using the force without being influenced by the light side or the dark side. to be able to benefit from both without hindrance.
And you're wrong you know at least two to three people who have achieved balance in the force
for example the father on mortis or Revan.
or even the knights of zakeel which is all reached the balance
 
Negation said:
Actually Knights of Zakuul are made to be crippled and weak by Valkorion so they cannot chalenge his power. They have to fight in groups to do what Jedi & Sith can do alone.
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okay maybe I'm wrong there because that's only my interpretation I didn't get a novel he confirmed.
But from what I understand in the knight game its strongest the average Jedi and sith.
Valkorion did not make them to be weak but to be completely and utterly devoted to him.
their eyes strength is a reward they get with every sacrifice for their emperor.
but this time I recognize that it is only an interpretation on my part according to the dialogues of satele and Marr, so maybe I am wrong and it is you who are right.
but in any case it does not change anything except the fact of reaching the balance in the force in the user more free, more mentally stable and stronger.
as was the case with the alliance commander who in his first duel against Arcann had no chance, but after reaching balance in strength had become stronger than Arcann
 
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Force Thoughts
  • Informational
    • Force Thoughts
    So while the discussion is interesting and as someone who made his P.H.D on the mythical aspects of Star Wars, I can bear witness the Force is presented somewhat incoherently through the franchise with many different writers having their own opinions on the subject, I'm going to bring the hammer in.

    The Force is an energy field produced by every living being and who is present in all things. Some people, even entire species, are able to perceive and manipulate this energy field and are called Force-Sensitive. I should note that in this quest midichlorians are microorganisms attracted to high concentrations of the Forces yet a high midichlorian count is not indicative of anything but raw potential. Anakin has the highest count in the Order but you would be trounced by every one with experience.

    The ability of perceiving the Force is a sense. As such it can be destroyed through some techniques. Still when one is cut from the Force as a punishment it just means they can't feel it anymore not that the energy is purposefully rejecting it.

    Whether or not the Force is conscious is a subject of debate among the Jedi Order and indeed most of the Council discussions who are not devoted to pragmatic matters are on the subject. For most the will of the Force is simply the chain of cause and effect. Others would point to Anakin's conception if they were aware of it as the sign something else is going on. To not arrange things, there are entities who have transcended the material plane and exist as energy beings and whose existence nobody doubts in the Order since they are well attested.

    As for the sides. Well Jedi think one should work with the Force, surrender to it and practice non-action. What has been exposed to Anakin is that a true Jedi strives to not act but to be moved, to surrender to the flow of existence. This is a big root of their policy of non-attachment as they think the universe is constantly moving and so it is useless to try and halt the flow.

    Yes this is incoherent with the fact they are moral actors and don't strive for amorality but they spent millennia trying to square this circle. They admit as sapient beings they like the idea of freedom and peace better than bondage and war. But the focus on effortless action and detachment is the reason why they do not seek temporal rule.

    For a Jedi, acting on the Force specifically trying to grasp it and command it, overbearing its will with your own is the Dark Side. A Jedi sees the web of existence and think everything on it is as worthwhile as the other. They recognize they are but a speck in the great machinery of the universe and delight in the wonders of the cosmos. A Darksider considers themselves as the center of the universe and try to grasp anything in reach to control it.

    This is why Cade Skywalker's healing ability is a Dark Side power. You take the target in your hand and bring it back to life through your refusal to let them go. You impose your will on the universe rather than work through it.

    I admit this doesn't explain people like Maul or any of the Dark Side berserkers who seem to surrender to the darkness but when we have POVs of this character type, they still seem to exert their will upon the universe, it's just this will is to kill everybody involved.

    There is also something hilarious in that the Sith practice the same non-attachment rule as the Jedi but for very different philosophical reasons. For the Sith, attachments stand in the way of the unfettered will of the adept. Nothing should keep you from doing what you want, not even love or fear.

    For the Jedi the Force in balance means the Force is free from the corruption of the Dark Side. The image who is often used is a great river and the Dark Side as a dam who seek to stem the flow and forces the creation of a stagnant lake.

    On an individual level you cannot master both sides of the Force. They take two opposite mindsets and one cannot at the same time surrender the self to the Force and make the self the center of the universe. You cannot move with the flow and control the current. Electric Judgment is using electricity already present on the scene, even in one's body, to produce lighting bolt. Force Lightning is sending your intent to harm in electrical form.

    What you can have however is people who use the darker side of nature or the cycle of decay without using the Dark Side. The Jedi are the first to defend the idea nothing in nature is inherently wrong or wicked.
     
  • Informational
    • kinglugia said:
    May I read your article on that subject, please? Or is it restricted information?
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    I can send my thesis to you but it's in French. Basically I compared Arthurian myths and Star Wars mainly to argue the latter took elements of the former but indeed became modern myths notably because the authors had so many divergent views on the universe. I was very interested in the literal expansion of the E.U that is the fact authors take a place like Yavin IV and then build backstories for it. Or how nearly every character appearing in the Visual Dictionaries was given focus at a moment or another.
     
    Again, the poster boy for 'Grey' fanbois is Revan. The man who was:

    An incredibly aggressive and ruthless Jedi
    A relatively mild Sith Lord
    An amnesiac blank slate
    A redeemed and full Jedi
    A genocidal nutjob
    Split into two.

    Revan was never 'balanced' and the closest he came was as, shocker, a full Jedi.
     
    Sparda demon said:
    I think balance is using the force without being influenced by the light side or the dark side. to be able to benefit from both without hindrance.
    And you're wrong you know at least two to three people who have achieved balance in the force
    for example the father on mortis or Revan.
    or even the knights of zakeel which is all reached the balance
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    Skywalker_T-65 said:
    Again, the poster boy for 'Grey' fanbois is Revan. The man who was:

    An incredibly aggressive and ruthless Jedi
    A relatively mild Sith Lord
    An amnesiac blank slate
    A redeemed and full Jedi
    A genocidal nutjob
    Split into two.

    Revan was never 'balanced' and the closest he came was as, shocker, a full Jedi.
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    Yeah. He probably is the best equipped to do so, but...
    We know for all of his chessmaster moves, he was bouncing around the sides like a ping pong ball.
     
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    Kamino Wellspring of False Life: Part 3
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    • Kamino Wellspring of False Life: Part 3
    There in the darkness amidst the screams, amidst the corpses you have made, you make your decision. You are not your teacher. You are not able to see where the future itself bends and breaks. Indeed you have not manifested his skill and he doesn't know if it is teachable. What he can do, what he did with Teacher Depa and all his other apprentices is teach you the theory. You know how the diamond will shatter if struck at a precise point. There you see it clearly. The item, this dark pyramid is empowering your foe. So it must be destroyed. You uncoil yourself in a jump, trusting in the Force to guide your blade. The Kaminoan tries to dodge but he thinks you are targeting his throat. Your blade instead descends and for the first time since you took the lightsaber, you feel resistance as it impacts. Still you put your strength into the handle, forcing gravity to do its work and the surface cedes. It breaks apart and you can spy it has no mechanical innards, just rune-etched metal and crystal as red as blood. It screams as it explodes, the shock pushing you against a wall.

    Something is released, something dark, a whirlwind of energy who takes vaguely humanoid form. In it you see the woman with the golden eyes and you feel her pass unto the Force, fighting it all the while, loath to abandon her tenuous link to existence. You see what she has done, what she taught the creature before you to do. She remembered old arts. She remembered when the first of the Jedi fell from the light, they did so because they thought twisting life was their right. She knew new things and bred new monsters. The darkness pours into your brain and yet you are not tempted. Vistas of horrors, plains of bleached bones, wastes of the laboratory fit only to mewl in the darkness surrounded by barbed wires. Is this what the Sith called knowledge? How to break and how to bend indeed, how to make bones debauch themselves and flesh grow in forms terrible? Did they find their creatures beautiful even as they filled worlds with predators with no prey? Some part of you is shaken but you remember the sands of Tatooine and those who plied the arena. Many did as worse with lesser means.

    Still the knowledge does not depart you and you are brought to laugh. A true laugh which is not a sound who was heard in these dark places before. You discard most of what was put into your mind for these arts are useless but before she learned to break, the guardian of the pyramid learned to mend. You cannot remedy the alterations the Kaminoan made to his herd. Yet you can salve part of their pain and it's a foundation you could build on. Your thoughts come to the chip still embedded in your stomach, the brand of Watoo deactivated but still nested in your guts, still proclaiming you were born in chains. You long thought to develop a scanner to remove it from your people and set them free. Now, you are sure you could use the Force and command it to break your skin from your inside, your body reknitting itself around the wound. This is good but this is a subject for another time.

    Gained Stunts: Force Healing: You can use Force to heal people

    Gained Aspect: Initiate of the Flesh: You have made the first steps on understanding how the Living Force can change a body. Unlike the dreadful arts of the Sith, you will not be able to create entirely new kinds of creatures or heavily mutate them beyond recognition. Yet pursuing this path will allow you to learn not only to heal grievous wounds and perfect physical augmentation but also imbue others with perfect health, pushing them to the peak of their potential. Perhaps in time you could take children from a dying woman's womb and let them be born alive and free while saving the mother.

    Now it's time to finish what you begin. You dispense yourself with honor. Honor is the province of braggarts and fools according to your teachers. The Jedi do what is needful and minimize suffering. There is no gain in letting the Kaminoan be able to continue fighting. Still there is the choice of the means dancing in your spirit and what will you do afterwards.

    [] Child of the Mother: There is a word in the tongue of the slaves of Tatooine: Depur. Master, owner and tormentor alike. Breakers of worlds and minds alike. You have made your steps on the path of the Jedi but you remain a child of the desert, the bringer of the storm. You will not let a slaver live, especially one who broke his captives such. So your blade descends and break flesh, cleanly separating head from body. It doesn't take long afterwards for Teacher Windu to descend, having fought through his own contingent of abominations. He understands the situation and so do the slaves you free. Gain 1 Fate point

    [] True Believer:     You will kill if needful but such is not the situation now. You will stay your blade and instead reach with your hands. You now understand a little of the blasphemy who let this Kaminoan wield the Force. You see the power brimming in his blood. And so you reach to his elongated neck and put your will to his veins. How painful that sounds as you rip the potions and unguents from his organism. Just in time to see your Teacher takes him into custody. The slaves look at you with awe and more than awe and some who have been taken from the threefold sun whisper in the old tongue. Spend 1 Fate point

    [] Many Houses in the Force:     As you prepare your decision some of the sharp items in the room answer your conundrum. Rising they hurl themselves at the Kaminoans tearing his throat. You follow the impulse right to a girl of Obi-Wan's age who acted without thinking now the oppressive feeling is gone. She is human and comes from a world of jungle where she helped her clan and trained to become one of their shamans. As Teacher Windu comes to you, you strike a conversation with her and find her knowledge wholly unlike what you have been taught. Gain 1 Fate point

    You have 1 Fate Point
     
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