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An Exploration of the Mortal Realms: An Age of Sigmar Thread

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Stormcast are space marines. They stand it the same ascetic and narrative niche, and beyond that the details do not matter. Not to GW, not to a prospective new hobbyist. It only really matters to people who are deep into the hobby.
 
Andres said:
@Codex how does the gluttony guy contribute in battle? He a wizard?
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He's a very powerful Wizard and comes with an entourage of people riding with him in his Palanquin. If you want to check his Warscroll, here it is.

The gist of it is that he has a bunch of companions who die off the more Wounds he suffers, and he grows more powerful as the battle goes on as he goes through his "meal". As a point of reference, mages who can cast two spells in the same turn are generally considered experts, and +1 to cast is a very big deal. He gets to cast three spells as the battle goes on and then gets to reroll all his casting rolls.

Theoretically, Synessa should be a stronger caster. They're Slaanesh's child and a Wizard who knows every Slaaneshi spell from all the Lores. But they only cast a single spell per turn and they have no bonuses to casting. I attribute it to the fact that they're still a newborn and it takes time for them to develop their strengths.
 
I'm reading Broken Realms Be'lakor, and I finally reached this part:

"As Humboldsson sat slumped and grief-stricken on the deck of his ship, propped up only by the bulk of his rig, he prayed for his enemy's sword to descend and put an end to his anguish. Yet through a swirling haze of horror, he saw the Daemon Prince's eyes locked upon another. The Arkanaut Gromthi advanced across the deck of the Redoubtable, wielding nothing but a crude riveting hammer, narrowed at one end like a miner's pick. Was that a flicker of fear that briefly appeared in the monster's coal-black eyes? Gromthi seemed to stand a foot taller, all his weathered ancientness replaced by a fiery strength that seemed to glow from within him.

With a snarl, the daemon Be'lakor beat his wings once more, releasing the Frigate and spiralling up into the air to be swallowed up by the raging skies. It was the last thing Humboldsson saw before darkness overcame him." Page 65

It's funny that they kept the White Dwarf's identity across the Broken Realms series a secret and a mystery, but they just reveal it in the core book for 3rd Edition. That's Grungni.

I appreciate that despite the entire book protraying Be'lakor as this unstoppable juggernaut and mastermind who orchestrated the downfall and permanent death of an entire Stormhost and beating everyone he's faced off against, he still hesitates the instant he sees Grungni. Be'lakor may be almost god level, but he is no match for the Maker himself.

I really want them to do more with Grungni. He's mostly a side note in the Fyreslayer book for 3rd Edition, which makes sense since they're followers of Grimnir first. I have a feeling the next Kharadron book is going to be a doozy.
 
Codex said:
It's funny that they kept the White Dwarf's identity across the Broken Realms series a secret and a mystery, but they just reveal it in the core book for 3rd Edition. That's Grungni.
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Is it? I read a story split across white dwarf magazines that show him as Grombrindal from the old world, reforged by Grungni.
 
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Grungni and the Kharadron
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    • Andres said:
    Grungni's badass that he got Be'lakor to run away.
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    He also had a great conversation with his "superior" (he was pretending to be an Arkanaut Marine) after the fact. I don't want to cut anything from it, so I'll put it in spoilers and quotes:
    T he Arkanaut Gromthi sat perched upon a pile of scattered debris, puffing away on his pipe as he looked out over the mountainous valleys of the Spiral Crux. Endrinmaster Humboldsson trudged up the winding, shell-damaged stairway to the battlements, and approached the whitebeard.

    'Grim days ahead, beardling,' said Gromthi. 'But you came together here in common cause, and that's a beginning. Mayhap there's hope for the dawi yet.'

    Humboldsson puzzled at that word. Dawi. An archaic term, and not one that he had often heard spoken in Barak-Zilfin. He studied the strange duardin. Gromthi had removed his mask, revealing a weather-beaten face tattooed with archaic scripture and an unruly crown of snowy hair. His skin was the colour of an oak and as craggy as that of a rock troggoth.

    'Aye,' Humboldsson said. 'Every sky-port prospered here today. With the leverage we have over the Vindicarians after this, we'll be masters of every skyway from here to Ayadah.'

    Gromthi shot him a frown so full of disappointment that, to his surprise, the Endrinmaster felt a stab of guilt. He'd not felt the like since he was an apprentice back in the shipworks, with old Master Khronkaz breathing down his neck and pointing out the shoddy joining in his ventwork.

    'What's that look for, Arkanaut?' he blustered, angered by the intractable veteran. 'Is this not what you wanted, after all? It's just business.' He turned his back on Gromthi, railing as much at the skies as the tattooed duardin. 'By the Code, you think we should have fought and died here for nothing but empty gestures of solidarity? How would that keep the Redoubtable afloat? Or the sky-ports themselves, for that matter?'

    The sound of frenzied chanting interrupted his diatribe. Below, amidst the rubble of the city street, a band of wailing Flagellants was shuffling back and forth, lashing themselves so furiously that their blood poured freely to stain the earth.

    'Let these foolish land-sloggers put their trust in gods and faith,' Humboldsson muttered, more to himself than to Gromthi. 'I put mine in a freshly fuelled ship and an open horizon.'

    'Suppose I cannot grudge you that,' came Gromthi's voice, suddenly very old and tired. 'I only hope it's enough to get you through what's to come. Seems there's nothing I can teach you. Good fortune, beardling. Mayhap we'll meet again, in time.'

    There was a soft, rushing sound, like wind sweeping across a sky-ship's hull. When Humboldsson turned, the old Arkanaut was nowhere to be seen. Only the faintest scent of pipe-smoke remained, the sole, swiftly vanishing proof that Gromthi had ever been there at all.
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    To provide some context to this conversation, Grungni is battling with an intense guilt over his actions. Millenia ago during the Age of Myth, Grungni led his people, even after Grimnir went and got himself killed, and he guided them to a prosperous life full of wonder. He invited many to his smithies to learn from him and his apprentices and crafted amazing wonders, few of which survive to this day after the Age of Chaos.

    However, Grungni felt that something was amiss. His people had to be self-sufficient and be able to take care of themselves. He couldn't hold their hands for all eternity and coddle them. He believed they must be tested and survive in order to thrive as a people. So he left, and even when the Age of Chaos happened he did not return, only working to help create the Stormcast as a favor to Sigmar before he disappeared off the Mortal Realms.

    The result of Grungni's departure was momentous. Many Duardin lost their faith in him after being subjected to the tortures of the Age of Chaos without Grungni's guiding hand. Many of his wonders in Chamon were twisted and destroyed by Tzeentch's machinations. Even the Fyreslayers abandoned their Duardin kin, shutting the gates of their Magmaholds in the interest of survival. There were those who managed to survive by escaping to Azyr as refugees, but once the Gates shut after Sigmar locked them, there was no place to run. The Duardin of the Khazalid Empire were on the verge of extinction.

    Then they discovered Aether-Gold, the "Breath of Grungni". With it, Duardin began quickly discovering and pioneering the field of Aethermatic Endrineering, allowing them to make flying ships and reside within floating islands that would from their Sky-Ports. It is from there that the Kharadron Overlords first arose, and how they survived the Age of Chaos. However, the conflict between the different Sky-Ports led to some serious trouble, which is why the Kharadron met in the floating island of Madralta and had their first Conference, where their highest ranking people decided on the way to go. Royalty and Nobility failed the Duardin, so monarchy would not be the way forward. Archaic conventions were not needed, practicality and survival was most important. They created the Kharadron Code, which served as the codified rule set that the Kharadron lived by. From there, the Kharadron formed their society centering around meritocratic lines, where achievement was most important. Your position wasn't only about what you've done, however, it's also about what you've done lately. Resting on your laurels and coasting through life is not the Kharadron way. They are endlessly practical and care not for the "greater good". They only care insofar as it helps insure their safety and their profit margins.

    In that paragraph Grungni comes face to face with a mindset that he did not directly foster, but one that he nonetheless influenced. Disapproving of Humboldsson's mindset is ironic considering his actions were what led the Duardin to become who they are today. I imagine Grungni is grappling with that, and it's part of what caused him to return.
    Dragonofelder said:
    Is it? I read a story split across white dwarf magazines that show him as Grombrindal from the old world, reforged by Grungni.
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    That's the problem. White Dwarf short stories are written by Black Library novel authors, notorious for "taking the initiative" so to speak. GW do the whole "everything's canon" thing because they don't want to bother double checking everything, and they give Black Library total freedom to do whatever after giving them a few guidelines. What likely happened is that GW decided there would be a "White Dwarf" and they wanted to develop it as they went along, and they gave the BL writers license to do whatever without confirming one way or another who the White Dwarf was. So the author decided on Grombrindal, because they were publishing this story in the White Dwarf magazine where Grombrindal literally answers your fan mail questions in the first few pages.

    At the end of the day, 3rd Edition Core Book overwrites whatever's in a White Dwarf short story. This isn't the first confusing maybe-retcon maybe-confusion thing regarding the Broken Realms. Whether Aenarion's spirit is eaten by Morathi or not is one of those things too. Be'lakor's Storm is another.
     
  • Informational
    • Tbh, to me, theres no reason Grombrindal and Grungni can't be running around in similar disguise, doing similar things.

    Because during one of those WD stories, Gromi also fought someone on a Arkanaut ship, although this time it was Morathi, and they actually exchanged blows
     
    I mean hey, like father like son. Not like it's not a dwarf elder Thing to disguise themselves as random menials and use that as a means to get information. Wouldn't be surprised if Grungni and Grombi both get up to the same sorts of shenanigans.
     
    Started reading The End of Enlightenment, a book about Lumineth Realm-Lords, as well as Ossiarch Bonereapers, amd I've had a thought.

    Is there a noticeable difference between aelves pulled from Slaanesh's stomach and those already in the realms?
     
    Dragonofelder said:
    Started reading The End of Enlightenment, a book about Lumineth Realm-Lords, as well as Ossiarch Bonereapers, amd I've had a thought.

    Is there a noticeable difference between aelves pulled from Slaanesh's stomach and those already in the realms?
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    Those pulled from Slaanesh are typically traumatised from their time in Slaanesh' stomach and posess a deep hatred of Chaos, although most of them are pretty old if not dead by now. The current ones are their descendants. The ones pulled from Slaanesh also had to be reconstructed by Teclis, Tyrion, Malerion and Morathi, so they tend to be pretty different based on the preferences of the Aelven god who reconstructed them. It also means that they're usually stronger than those Aelves who are in the Realms.

    Really, the difference is that the regular Aelves are like the ones from Fantasy. The ones who come from Slaanesh are super Aelves.
     
    Well, while I'm pretty certain Grungni is the one who fought Be'lakor (primarily because his signature is a pick and Grombi is all about axes), we're getting a Grombrindal novel in the Mortal Realms:
    In the Mortal Realms, legends come to life, and there are few legends as noteworthy for the Duardin as the White Dwarf.

    I mean, let's be real, he's the namesake of GW's magazine. I was pretty sure he'd come back, I just didn't know when.
     
    Want want want.

    Although it's written by the guy who did the Gotrex audio book, so I'll have to see if I prefer his books.
     
    I've finished The End of Enlightenment, so prepare for my Patatented Spoiler Free Review;

    Wow. What a bunch of rock hippies.

    Mind you that rock did kick some shit, but still. Rock hippies.

    The Ossiarch Bonereapers are terrifying, and not for how they fight. Compared to a zombie apocalypse, they are definitely much, much more dangerous. Zombies can infect you, but once they're dead they stay dead. The Bonereapers will just hoover up all the bones they can, yours and theirs, and just make more troops. Scary.
     
    Dragonofelder said:
    I've finished The End of Enlightenment, so prepare for my Patatented Spoiler Free Review;

    Wow. What a bunch of rock hippies.

    Mind you that rock did kick some shit, but still. Rock hippies.

    The Ossiarch Bonereapers are terrifying, and not for how they fight. Compared to a zombie apocalypse, they are definitely much, much more dangerous. Zombies can infect you, but once they're dead they stay dead. The Bonereapers will just hoover up all the bones they can, yours and theirs, and just make more troops. Scary.
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    They're also a hell of a lot smarter than zombies, both in tactics and long term logistics. Why just kill a kingdom and take all their bones once, when you can force them to pay a tithe of bones the replenish your numbers for a long time.
     
    The Ossiarch are a gestalt. They are a combination of ingenious bone engineering and magical artifice combine with bits and pieces from the souls of hundreds of soldiers fused together to create a machine of war. They are endlessly disciplined and march in lockstep to grind their enemies down in a war of attrition. They are an unstoppable, yet slow tide of strategy and patience. It's certainly a different vibe to the other Death factions, most of which prefer a quick deadly alpha strike to inspire fear. The Ossiarchs are kind of like a creeping dread in comparison to the jump scare of other Death factions.
     
    Codex said:
    I'm reading Broken Realms Be'lakor, and I finally reached this part:

    "As Humboldsson sat slumped and grief-stricken on the deck of his ship, propped up only by the bulk of his rig, he prayed for his enemy's sword to descend and put an end to his anguish. Yet through a swirling haze of horror, he saw the Daemon Prince's eyes locked upon another. The Arkanaut Gromthi advanced across the deck of the Redoubtable, wielding nothing but a crude riveting hammer, narrowed at one end like a miner's pick. Was that a flicker of fear that briefly appeared in the monster's coal-black eyes? Gromthi seemed to stand a foot taller, all his weathered ancientness replaced by a fiery strength that seemed to glow from within him.

    With a snarl, the daemon Be'lakor beat his wings once more, releasing the Frigate and spiralling up into the air to be swallowed up by the raging skies. It was the last thing Humboldsson saw before darkness overcame him." Page 65

    It's funny that they kept the White Dwarf's identity across the Broken Realms series a secret and a mystery, but they just reveal it in the core book for 3rd Edition. That's Grungni.

    I appreciate that despite the entire book protraying Be'lakor as this unstoppable juggernaut and mastermind who orchestrated the downfall and permanent death of an entire Stormhost and beating everyone he's faced off against, he still hesitates the instant he sees Grungni. Be'lakor may be almost god level, but he is no match for the Maker himself.

    I really want them to do more with Grungni. He's mostly a side note in the Fyreslayer book for 3rd Edition, which makes sense since they're followers of Grimnir first. I have a feeling the next Kharadron book is going to be a doozy.
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    Another interesting aspect, The Eight Lamentations has an outright conversation between Grungni and a dwarf heavily implied to be the White Dwarf.
     
    stratigo said:
    Stormcast are space marines. They stand it the same ascetic and narrative niche, and beyond that the details do not matter. Not to GW, not to a prospective new hobbyist. It only really matters to people who are deep into the hobby.
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    What do you mean by the same narrative niche? Space marines are usually walking terrors, some walking horrors as well. Stormcast's are crafted out of heroes entirely at least as their origins go. Stormcasts are made to the best of my knowledge by their god, Marines (mostly) do not consider their original progenitor to even be a god.

    Stormcasts strike me as more like custodes trying to be wizards, and I don't think you'd need even an hours worth of lore to see that.
     
    16 characters said:
    What do you mean by the same narrative niche? Space marines are usually walking terrors, some walking horrors as well. Stormcast's are crafted out of heroes entirely at least as their origins go. Stormcasts are made to the best of my knowledge by their god, Marines (mostly) do not consider their original progenitor to even be a god.

    Stormcasts strike me as more like custodes trying to be wizards, and I don't think you'd need even an hours worth of lore to see that.
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    That's the details. GW does not present space marines as evil fascist storm troops. They are heroic defenders of humanity. That's the narrative niche. The super human defenders of humanity who descend from the sky in almost angelic reverence. Warhammer is not a details setting. It's about mood, and stormcast were made, deliberately, to evoke the same mood as space marines.
     
    stratigo said:
    That's the details. GW does not present space marines as evil fascist storm troops. They are heroic defenders of humanity. That's the narrative niche. The super human defenders of humanity who descend from the sky in almost angelic reverence. Warhammer is not a details setting. It's about mood, and stormcast were made, deliberately, to evoke the same mood as space marines.
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    Eh you're half right. Stormcast were designed to be the equivalent of space marines for Age of Sigmar yes, but its incredibly reductive only only view that in a visual and narrative sense.

    They were actually meant to fill the same product role as Space Marines, an instantly appealing faction for beginners that's easy start, easy to paint, and easy to play.

    GW accomplished two of these things perfectly. Stormcast are fairly easy to collect, pick a chamber, get all it's stuff, then branch out to other chambers, and they have generally the best value starter boxes. Stormcast are also unstressful to paint, being big, heroic figures without too many fiddly little details.

    But then we come to that last point, "easy to play", and uh, they whiffed it, hard. Space Marines accomplish this pretty well even in the nightmare of rules bloat that is 9th edition. They're 40k's perennial jack of all trades, master of none. They can do everything okay to good, but are truly great at nothing, which means a new player can use them to do whatever part of the game they like at least decently. Their synergies (at least with the base codex chapters) are pretty simple. They don't get more complicated than "Put the buffing character with the unit you want to shoot/fight better", and their basic game plan of "shoot things early, then throw melee units in in the mid-lategame" is literally built into their doctrines mechanic.

    Meanwhile, Stormcast are a big old mess of weird synergies, spells, chambers with completely different game plans, and are often more mediocre than jack of all trades. They're pretty much constantly held up by a handful of strong units among the blah, and oftentimes vets will warn new players to stay away.

    And despite multiple revampings, GW has never really managed to fix this. 3rd Ed stormcast are better, but man did they fuck up and introduce so of the most busted models ever, meaning the codex immediately took nerfs to the chin not long after the edition released.
     
    stratigo said:
    That's the details. GW does not present space marines as evil fascist storm troops. They are heroic defenders of humanity. That's the narrative niche. The super human defenders of humanity who descend from the sky in almost angelic reverence. Warhammer is not a details setting. It's about mood, and stormcast were made, deliberately, to evoke the same mood as space marines.
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    The details as you put it, matter, are not hidden and are not incomprehensible.
    If we disagree that the details (as in more than five-minute intros to factions) matter for making these settings than why should we even speak further? Actually, why are you on a thread trying to explore the complexities of AOS lore if you think this sort of thing is irrelevant?


    Now maybe if a new fan only saw art from Space Marine(the video game) they'd think that. Can't imagine another scenario where the nature of space marines as beings whose typically only human trait is that gross exterior anatomy isn't picked up on.

    The Returned primarch of the Ultramarines himself is known for having created the Vallhallan Firstborns an army that is both deeply fucked up and a defensive bulwark. Spacemarines are evil fascist storm troops and defenders of humanity, because humanity is that fucked in 40K
    I'd bet you five minutes looking around at the blood angels and space wolf wiki pages would tell people that they are essentially walking time bombs who are liable to monsterize pretty much any time.

    So they are presented as defenders yes but only seen as heroic by those who are truly deluded or meeting them for the first time. Having a space marine chapter save your world from the tyranids is great until they decide your children will now all fight to the death to give them some new recruits to make up for the previous difficulty.

    That horrid stuff like that happens isn't even remotely hidden.

    More fundamentally the Space Marines made the Horus Hersey possible anyone who's seen more than a few minutes of the setting ought to know that...again it's not hidden and very hard to call heroic.

    I get what your trying to say essentially that Stormcast may be what G.W wishes space marines if they could have rebooted both universes, that doesn't make them identical even at a glance. I don't even like either faction much but this strikes me as a very unhelpful way to view what G.W has produced.


    @IfIhadaHammer Apologies if I was being redundant here and strayed away from AOS, I didn't realize you were trying to respond at the same time.

    EDIT: I see you were replying to another facet of comparison, I should be good then.
     
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    I'm checking the rules for the scenarios in Broken Realms Be'lakor and I love this rule:

    "GROMTHI
    At the start of each combat phase, the Kharadron Overlords player can roll a dice if Be'lakor is within 6" of any SKYFARER models that are not HEROES. If they do so, on a 6, Be'lakor is removed from play but is not slain. On a 1-5, the closest SKYFARER model to Be'lakor that is not a HERO is slain (if several are equally close, randomly determine which is slain)."

    I really like the narrative battleplans. They add neat flavor to the books. Sometimes they're too restrictive, but they can give inspiration for some interesting rules if you're thinking of going for a narrative game.
     
    Codex said:
    I'm checking the rules for the scenarios in Broken Realms Be'lakor and I love this rule:

    "GROMTHI
    At the start of each combat phase, the Kharadron Overlords player can roll a dice if Be'lakor is within 6" of any SKYFARER models that are not HEROES. If they do so, on a 6, Be'lakor is removed from play but is not slain. On a 1-5, the closest SKYFARER model to Be'lakor that is not a HERO is slain (if several are equally close, randomly determine which is slain)."

    I really like the narrative battleplans. They add neat flavor to the books. Sometimes they're too restrictive, but they can give inspiration for some interesting rules if you're thinking of going for a narrative game.
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    Is the implication meant to be that they crash an airship or somesuch into Belakrummdgeons face?
     
    Codex said:
    "GROMTHI
    At the start of each combat phase, the Kharadron Overlords player can roll a dice if Be'lakor is within 6" of any SKYFARER models that are not HEROES. If they do so, on a 6, Be'lakor is removed from play but is not slain. On a 1-5, the closest SKYFARER model to Be'lakor that is not a HERO is slain (if several are equally close, randomly determine which is slain)."
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    How the heck does this work?

    Oh wait, it's Grungi in hiding isn't it? Although why would he die instead of disappearing as well then?
     
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